[04:54] <apachelogger> Launchpad does not know where Muon Package Manager hosts its code.
[04:54] <apachelogger> no one does
[04:56] <apachelogger> hum
[04:56] <tsimpson> apt-cache does give you a clue via the Homepage link
[04:57] <tsimpson> not exactly where people go looking for it though
[05:16] <robtygart> apachelogger: this guy made muon https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman you could ask. 
[05:17] <apachelogger> hm, never heard of him
[05:18] <robtygart> type muon --author 
[05:18] <JontheEchidna> (lol)
[05:19] <robtygart> http://www.wonderly.com/2011/05/muon-kde-package-manager-and-software-center/
[05:20] <apachelogger> oh
[05:20] <apachelogger> robtygart: thanks :)
[05:20] <robtygart> Your welcome
[06:16] <apachelogger> hm
[06:17] <apachelogger> ScottK: kubuntu-default-settings has a rather big history, I wonder if we should drop that for kubuntu-settings
[06:17] <apachelogger> (seeing as it is still available in the respective branches anyway)
[06:18] <apachelogger> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-settings/kubuntu-settings/files
[06:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 1058466 do we still keep the old around for a reason?
[06:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think we should not lose history.
[06:44] <apachelogger> well we'd not loose it
[06:45] <apachelogger> we'd clip it for the new source
[06:45] <apachelogger> the old bzr branches are still around and have their history
[06:45] <ScottK> Meh.  Whatever.
[06:45] <apachelogger> problem is primarily that way back in kde3 we had wallpapers and plenty of icons in there
[06:45] <ScottK> I see.
[06:45] <apachelogger> which makes the branch unnecessarily big
[06:46] <ScottK> You're doing the work, so I won't object however you see fit.
[06:46] <apachelogger> to that extend clipping only to like the port to kde4 should already reduce the size quite a bit
[06:46] <ScottK> OK.
[06:47] <apachelogger> bug 999623
[06:47]  * apachelogger is all in favor of using liberation :P
[06:47] <apachelogger> particularly ubuntu mono makes my eyes bleed
[06:47] <apachelogger> (not that liberation mono fairs a lot better in that department)
[06:48] <ScottK> What is the default Ubuntu font?
[06:48] <apachelogger> afiestas: please make dario triage powerdevil bugs
[06:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: ubuntu
[06:48] <ScottK> I thought that was ours too?
[06:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: I think the complaint is more about how that font has problems with Qt
[06:48] <ScottK> I see.
[06:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: yes, but we don't render like the youbuntoo
[06:49] <apachelogger> as was seen by the issue in quantal were text was super fat
[06:49] <ScottK> Well then, that should be fixed.
[06:49] <ScottK> Right, but didn't that get fixed?
[06:49] <apachelogger> dunno
[06:50]  * apachelogger does not like the font really
[06:50] <ScottK> Don't look at me, I voted against switching to it.
[06:50] <apachelogger> Droid is rather nice for high-res screens, everywhere else I go for liberation
[06:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: pff
[06:50] <apachelogger> time to call for a recount
[06:51] <apachelogger> perhaps we should also revisit quassel v konvi ^^
[06:52] <ScottK> No idea how Konversation is working these days.
[06:55] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1070472] Esperanto did not appear in language menu @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1070472 (by siauderman)
[06:55] <apachelogger> ScottK: same as always, better looking and doing what it was meant to do
[06:56] <apachelogger> actually perhaps we should revisit that after all
[06:57] <apachelogger> because depending on how we justify having an IRC client on the ISO the better looks may be the one and only tipping point
[06:57] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1056431] KDE resets brightness to max at login @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1056431 (by Marja Erwin)
[06:57] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1066237] log out button freezes kde @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1066237 (by J. Sundermeyer)
[06:58] <apachelogger> i.e. if we have an IRC client on board to allow users to hop into #kubuntu and seek support none of the differences between quassel and konversation matter except for visual appearance and how that integrates with the overal workspace design
[06:58] <tsimpson> well, as I remember, the only reason we moved away from konversation was because it wasn't ready for KDE4 when we released. and that's no longer the case :)
[06:58] <afiestas> apachelogger: I don't have magic powers
[06:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: lol
[06:58] <afiestas> apachelogger: can you point me to some so I can send him an email?
[06:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=294768
[07:00] <apachelogger> tsimpson: yeah and then when we talked about it it was a convenient decision to stick with it seeing as there was little effective difference between the two
[07:00] <apachelogger> but now what I see is active polishing on konvi and not so much of that on quassel
[07:01] <tsimpson> I'd say that konvi is a "better" client than quassel, especially if you don't care about the core/client vs monolithic thing
[07:01] <tsimpson> "better" in the sense of looking nicer, and offering more features
[07:01] <apachelogger> question is do those two things matter
[07:02] <apachelogger> a lot to be discussed
[07:02] <apachelogger> horray
[07:02]  * apachelogger wonders where to spam first
[07:02] <jussi> the reason we chose to stick with quassel iirc was it was simpler and easier to get started, among other things.
[07:03] <tsimpson> I don't see how it's much different from konvi in that regard, we have default settings that "just work" for both
[07:04] <apachelogger> if we were to change there is also the question on what to do with quassel users ... force transit to konvi by config migration? leave two clients installed? make them choose on login?
[07:04] <jussi> apachelogger: for upgrades? just install the new client and leave the quassel there...
[07:05] <tsimpson> probably best to lave it installed for upgrades, and install konvi on fresh installs
[07:06] <jussi> I think the thing here is though, long term, how do we see the clients going. Is it really that we want to take Konvi now, and then look at quassel again in 2 cycles and switch back.
[07:06] <tsimpson> maybe have k-desktop depend/recommend/whatever on konversation | quassel
[07:06] <jussi> lets try keep it consistent iff possible
[07:06] <jussi> hey tazz
[07:07]  * tazz hugs jussi
[07:07] <apachelogger> weird things people are annoyed by: bug 958031
[07:07] <tsimpson> konversation looks (much) more active than quassel
[07:07] <Tm_T> Jussipussi
[07:07] <apachelogger> I do wonder how one even finds rfkill
[07:08] <jussi> tsimpson: right at this moment, yes
[07:08] <apachelogger> is it like "uh, lets have a look around the filesystem... oh my, this /usr/bin/ dir is rather full... and what is this here rfkill, what does it do? oh, nothing useful, WHY DO I HAVE THIS? WAAHAAAA"
[07:09] <apachelogger> it's what I think when I have a look around the filesystem
[07:09] <apachelogger> usual filesystem is $HOME though
[07:09] <apachelogger> and usually rfkill is weird prn
[07:09] <tsimpson> jussi: ironically, I just noticed my quassel here doesn't list you in the Nicks panel here, and doesn't allow me to tab-complete your nick ;)
[07:09] <apachelogger> otherwise same principle
[07:09] <jussi> tsimpson: curious...
[07:09] <jussi> tsimpson: bug :P
[07:09] <apachelogger> jussi: why woudl we look at quassel again?
[07:11] <apachelogger> bug #715309
[07:11] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1053140] Can't type accents in qt/kde applications (i.e. áàóò...) @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1053140 (by Jordi Ferrando Fabra)
[07:12] <jussi> apachelogger: simple, easy, still in active development, decent roadmap, we know the devs well, we can "shape" the direction as some examples. Many of these are valid for konvi as well though
[07:19] <apachelogger> jussi: that's why I am saying the only real question that needs answering is why we have an IRC client to begin with
[07:19] <tsimpson> quassel is a nice distributed IRC client, but that's hardly something the average user needs or requires for access to #kubuntu
[07:20] <jussi> apachelogger: yes, its a very good point, and goes back to the thought of "who is our target audience".
[07:20] <apachelogger> as if I had planned it :P
[07:20] <apachelogger> of course the target audience remains not well defined
[07:20] <jussi> Im actually somehwat in favour of just populating either the browser or the menu with a browser shortcut to the web irc interfacr
[07:21] <apachelogger> jussi: that implies having a working browser :P
[07:22] <apachelogger> though I do generally agree, except the freenode irc interface is not particularly beautiful
[07:23] <jussi> apachelogger: its not too bad, and colours can be customised
[07:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: do we still have a DVD? bug 900705
[07:23] <jussi> we might even just want to embed it to the kubuntu site and link there
[07:24] <apachelogger> as long as it can be kubuntu themed
[07:24] <apachelogger> bug 1001630 is fun
[07:24] <jussi> apachelogger: we can make it nice kubuntu colours, then just put it within the existing theme
[07:25] <claydoh> people will howl, as they tend to do when something is changed or removed
[07:25] <jussi> claydoh: yes, of course they will
[07:25] <claydoh> but it isn't as if there are many irc users as a percentage 
[07:26] <apachelogger> it is also not as if we could make half of that marginal percentage agree with our decision anyway :P
[07:27] <apachelogger> i.e. almost all quassel users I know are actually using it with a remote core, so they even need to install a different package despite us shipping quassel ^^
[07:27]  * tsimpson does exactly that ^
[07:27] <claydoh> as a quassel fan I do like the idea of the web interface on the website, as well as a bookmark in rekonq 
[07:28] <ScottK> apachelogger: We don't have DVD anymore.
[07:28] <ScottK> We still have the kubuntu-full metapackage though.
[07:28] <ScottK> It might be worth keeping.
[07:29] <jussi> Do we not already ship with help bookmarks in rekonq?
[07:29] <claydoh> apachelogger: agreed, my core is an a eeepc
[07:30] <jussi> apachelogger: so yes, I would be in agreeance to move irc to webchat embedded in the kubuntu website. those that want a real client will be able to install it with no issue.
[07:30] <claydoh> jussi: no, not really the favorites tab has your basic kde links ank kubuntu website link iirc
[07:31] <jussi> hrm
[07:32] <jussi> I have an interesting thought...
[07:32] <ScottK> Webchat for #kubuntu maybe.
[07:32] <jussi> Are the pages in the help browser html? could we not just add the freenode client as one of those pages WITHIN the help browser?
[07:35] <apachelogger> yes
[07:35] <apachelogger> slightly mad though :P
[07:36] <jussi> apachelogger: why?
[07:36] <apachelogger> cause KHC is spooky crap
[07:36] <jussi> hehe
[07:36] <apachelogger> also I think that needs some hacking
[07:36] <jussi> ok, but it would be the best place for it, IMHO
[07:36] <apachelogger> i.e. KHC will by default only render help:/ urls
[07:36] <apachelogger> everything else is sent to kde to figure out what to do with it
[07:37] <claydoh> rekonq favorites pane might be more discoverable
[07:37] <apachelogger> jussi: yeah
[07:37] <apachelogger> jussi: first we need apachelogger to redo KHC though :P
[07:38] <jussi> apachelogger: but would it not work to have a help:/ page with the thing embedded in it ?
[07:38] <claydoh> hmmm rekonq's background image needs kubuntu-fication
[07:38] <apachelogger> if that is possible
[07:39] <apachelogger> jussi: just put it in some random page and see what happens ;)
[07:39] <apachelogger> claydoh: what's that?
[07:39] <claydoh> where do most people go when they need help? the Help or the Web?
[07:39] <jussi> apachelogger: <iframe src="http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=kubuntu&uio=MTE9MjQ255" width="647" height="400"></iframe>
[07:40] <jussi> apachelogger: thats a blue hued, #kubuntu joining webchat to be embedded wherever you have html
[07:43] <claydoh> jussi: http://postimage.org/image/fhqwnhcbn/  rather out of sync with the rest of kde's look, maybe
[07:43] <apachelogger> jussi: no JS :P
[07:44] <jussi> apachelogger: oh :(
[07:45] <jussi> claydoh: i just dropped some blue on it...:P
[07:46] <apachelogger> claydoh: bugs.kde.org is your friend :P
[07:47] <apachelogger> some pieces of software are even triaged there
[07:47] <apachelogger> powerdevil is not one of them :P
[07:47] <claydoh> apachelogger: :P we can prettify it for us, too
[07:47] <apachelogger> yeah, except it'd then still be broken upstream
[07:48] <apachelogger> vHanda: did you get a chance to look at them nepomuk crashes on launchpad yet?
[07:48] <claydoh> apachelogger: point taken
[07:49] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0 proper scottish music
[07:49] <apachelogger> is choqok still developed?
[07:50] <claydoh> apachelogger: one of my favourite songs of all time
[07:53] <apachelogger> chicken dance is better
[07:56]  * apachelogger can't look at bugs anymore -.-
[08:01] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1077196] klipper does not save contents from closed windows @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1077196 (by ill)
[08:06]  * claydoh goes to bed, damn this tinnitus !
[08:10]  * apachelogger falls off chair
[08:11] <apachelogger> this here installation is b0rked, where be my new pc
[08:11] <apachelogger> there I said it... installing kubuntu is such a dreadful experience I am getting new computers to avoid having to reinstall
[08:12] <apachelogger> actually I meant to look into making ubiquity kde more responsive
[08:12] <apachelogger> -.-
[12:02] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:14] <Riddell> hi BluesKaj 
[12:15] <BluesKaj> Hi Riddell
[15:23] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1077965] qt4 applications over X forward run slower than with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1077965 (by Stefan Pielmeier)
[16:00] <Quintasan> Riddell: ping
[16:05] <Quintasan> SteveRiley: Lenovo ThinkPad T430u - opinons? X1 costs a fortune here
[16:10] <Riddell> Quintasan!
[16:11] <Quintasan> Riddell: I was supposed to sent you the scans of the fee for the bus I want to claim back but I forgot -_-
[16:12] <Riddell> you were supposed to give me them in person but I guess it's too late for that :)
[16:12] <Quintasan> Riddell: Yes I was, too forgetful on UDS
[16:12] <Quintasan> Too many distractions!
[16:15] <Riddell> Quintasan: so are you able to get them to me?
[16:15] <Riddell> and didn't you take a second flight or something?
[16:15] <Quintasan> yes, sent you an emailk
[16:15] <Quintasan> email*
[16:16] <Riddell> Quintasan: nothing in my e-mail
[16:17] <Quintasan> Riddell: riddell@gmail.com right?
[16:19] <Riddell> Quintasan: yep
[16:20] <Riddell> Quintasan: groovy got it
[16:20] <Riddell> Quintasan: so I still have these euro notes in my wallet for you
[16:20] <Riddell> is it sensible to just post the euro notes?
[16:21] <Riddell> because that would be easiest for me
[16:21] <Quintasan> hmmm
[16:21] <Quintasan> I'd have to go exchange them for PLN though
[16:21] <Quintasan> Well, go ahead and post them
[16:21] <Quintasan> I might as well as go shopping when I get them :P
[16:21]  * Quintasan could use some food in his fridge
[16:22] <Quintasan> Riddell: You got my address?
[16:22] <Riddell> Quintasan: no can you e-mail me your postal address?
[16:22] <Quintasan> sure
[16:23] <CQ> hello, is there a bug filed for the xserver not running? I get to the lightdm screen, and in 3.5 the screen goes blank then back to login for all logins, for 3.2 kernel the guest login works but th eothers don't ...
[16:23] <Quintasan> Riddell: sent
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: nope, the old gtk config module is still around just because they are different packages
[16:26] <yofel__> Quintasan: the 430u is ok for the money I guess. My personal issues with it are the non-changeble battery (ultrabook, I know) and the a bit low display resolution. In general it's fine though
[16:27] <Quintasan> hmm
[16:27] <maco> is there touchscreen whizbang stuff in kde?
[16:27] <Quintasan> yofel__: What about the no-u version?
[16:28] <Quintasan> gah
[16:33] <yofel__> Quintasan: the t430 is fine IMO (depending on the Hardware you get), depends whether you like it lighter or more flexible. (I'm generally for latter)
[16:36] <soee> someone using lates NVIDIa driver on qunatal?
[16:36] <Quintasan> soee: me
[16:37] <soee> Quintasan, works fine ?
[16:37] <Quintasan> well
[16:37] <Quintasan> most of the things yes
[16:37] <Quintasan> compositing is not smooth
[16:37] <Quintasan> but it works
[16:37] <soee> hmm
[16:38] <soee> ok thank you, maybe i try them to
[16:38]  * yofel__ makes his way home - bbl
[16:41] <soee> strange we have 4.9.3 in backports right ?
[16:42] <Riddell> CQ: hi
[16:42] <Riddell> CQ: that's probably not an X issue, that's probably the login not working
[16:42] <Riddell> look in ~/.Xsession
[16:42] <Riddell> no, in ~/.xsession-errors
[16:43] <Riddell> maco: probably not much
[16:43] <Riddell> I expect it needs to be added to the applications
[16:43] <Quintasan> soee: We do, what about it?
[16:44] <maco> Riddell: ok. i know there's touchscreen support in ubuntu overall, but wasn't sure about getting a laptop with a touchscreen and putting kubuntu on it
[16:44] <soee> well, i just added backports ppa and x-updates ppa but i have no updates for KDE or nvidia
[16:44] <soee> strange
[16:45] <Riddell> maco: maybe there is for all I know, we got patches in Qt for it but I don't know what else is needed and I don't think anyone here has the hardware to test it
[16:45] <maco> Riddell: ok. so i guess when asus starts selling the laptops they're advertising, it might make sense for me as a guinea pig ;)
[16:49] <Riddell> maco: yep would be cool
[16:57] <soee> ok animations arent smooth now and my panel isn't transparent anymore on new nvidia driver
[17:12] <shadeslayer> maco: which machine are you looking at?
[17:12] <maco> shadeslayer: Asus Zenbook Touch UX31A
[17:13] <maco> though reading the list of what's in asus's new lineup for this quarter, the Taichi looks pretty cool too
[17:13] <maco> http://asia.cnet.com/full-details-of-asus-windows-8-lineup-revealed-62219185.htm
[17:13] <shadeslayer> that looks like what I want to buy 6 months from now ....
[17:14] <shadeslayer> maco: does the screen come off?
[17:14] <maco> not on the zenbook
[17:15] <maco> the transformer is the one with the removable screen
[17:15] <maco> that turns into a tablet
[17:15] <shadeslayer> mmm ... the thing completely flips?
[17:15] <maco> the taichi acts like a tablet when you close the lid
[17:15] <maco> and hte zenbook you reach up over the keyboard to touch the screen
[17:16] <maco> http://asia.cnet.com/product/asus-transformer-book-core-i7-3517u-processor-1-9ghz-4gb-ram-46728391.htm thats about the transformer alone
[17:20] <shadeslayer> maco: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-id=FA4F841D9789D55CA8028C8C3A1EC325#.UKEvtZuvFKM
[17:20] <shadeslayer> want something like that
[17:20] <maco> ah, yeah i heard about that one
[17:20] <maco> actually i remember one of my friends having a thinkpad X-something several years ago that did that
[17:22] <BluesKaj> BBIAB
[17:23] <shadeslayer> unfortunately that thing looks really bulky
[17:35] <soee> after second reboot and VSync off all works perfect on new NVIDIA drivers :)
[17:36] <soee> also Amnesia game on full details without any problems
[18:14] <yofel> soee: which release are you on?
[18:15] <soee> yofel, are you asking because of my previous 4.9.3 updates problem ?
[18:16] <yofel> soee: yeah
[18:16] <soee> if so it works, i added backports but for qunatal updates are in updates ppa
[18:16] <yofel> right :)
[18:16] <soee> updating now
[20:01] <ScottK> yofel: Have you heard about any regressions with 4.9.3 on quantal?
[20:01] <ScottK> It seems to be working well for me.
[20:03] <yofel> not yet...
[20:03] <ScottK> Let me see if I can verify the kdenetwork update in -proposed now and then maybe it's time for 4.9.3 there.
[20:26]  * ScottK lives dangerously.
[20:26] <ScottK> Installing package updates while on battery over wifi from an airplane ....
[20:50] <ScottK> Alpha/Beta bug milestones are in for raring now, so people can target fixes/features appropriately.
[20:52] <yofel> was there any change for the image building for raring? or will we keep the usual alpha builds for now?
[20:56] <ScottK> Keeping them for now.
[20:56] <ScottK> I think we need to be good about messaging that people should use the latest though.
[22:17] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: 4.9.3 has the no-strigi nepomuk?
[22:17] <shadeslayer> nope
[22:17] <Quintasan> 4.10?
[22:17] <shadeslayer> most likely
[22:17] <Quintasan> Eh
[22:17] <Quintasan> Let's see how that works
[22:17] <Quintasan> brb rebooting
[22:27] <shadeslayer> cya