[00:48] <MegMan> Hello
[00:49] <MegMan> anyone try xubuntu
[00:49] <MegMan> dam is anyone awake here?
[07:28] <popey> morning
[07:39] <knightwise> morning popey
[08:47] <daubers> Morning
[08:56] <danfish> morning
[08:56] <christel> morning
[08:56] <AlanBell> morning
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:59] <SuperMatt> morning
[09:11] <BigRedS> Morning!
[09:16] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:30] <directhex> sigh, even in 12.10, unity can't keep track of openoffice windows spawned by opening a document directly (e.g. in nautilus or thunderbird)
[09:31] <diplo> Morning
[09:31] <directhex> wait, this box is still 12.04 isn't it. false alarm
[09:31] <directhex> i *know* it's fudged on 12.04
[09:35] <theopensourcerer> directhex: Ah yes, but the menu handling in LibreOffice in 12.10 is badly broken. In that they disappear :-)
[09:36] <directhex> /o\
[09:36] <popey> bug 1026426
[09:36] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1026426 in bamf (Ubuntu Precise) "LibreOffice Unity integration (launcher and switcher) is broken" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026426
[09:36] <theopensourcerer> Has rather upset my wife :-(
[09:37] <popey> its fixed in -proposed
[09:37] <theopensourcerer> hoorah!
[09:40] <dwatkins> but they're already married... ;)
[09:47] <popey> wakka wakka wakk
[09:47] <popey> +a
[09:47] <dwatkins> hehe
[09:47] <dwatkins> that reminds me, I was going to watch Being Elmo last week, great documentary that
[09:47]  * theopensourcerer wonders if popey is walking like a saddle sore cowboy.
[09:48] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:48]  * mungojerry has been bingeing (binging) on oolite over the weekend
[09:49] <dwatkins> mungojerry: I was trying to get Arch Elite running on my Pi yesterday, happy days... when it worked, anyway
[09:49] <mungojerry> the best of the breed (before oolite) IMO
[09:49] <czajkowski> popey: every time you go wakka wakka this goes on in my noggin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntn1-SocNiY
[09:50] <dwatkins> mungojerry: yeah, I really wanted to play it, but the zip file on the site linked from hackaday seems mangled :'(
[09:50] <mungojerry> always a happy chappy when i get 19kg of gemstones from shooting up a bad guy
[09:50] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P6ds11QzWA
[09:50] <mungojerry> i seem to get a bit more scoopage when playing oolite
[09:50] <popey> czajkowski, thats the intention
[09:51] <mungojerry> older versions were mory stingey
[09:51] <czajkowski> popey: :)
[09:51] <dwatkins> I always found it a little disturbing that you could scoop up someone's escape pod and sell it as 'slaves'
[09:55] <mungojerry> dwatkins, in oolite you scoop an escape pod and get paid insurance
[09:55] <mungojerry> :D
[09:55] <mungojerry> i got €250 for some rich guy the other day. sometimes its just €25 though
[09:58] <mungojerry> i was amazed the first time i loaded arc elite on my A3000 and saw vipers flying in formation
[10:00] <dwatkins> that's neat (both things)
[10:04] <popey> theopensourcerer, nope
[10:04] <popey> theopensourcerer, no pain, no discomfort really
[10:07] <popey> http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-11-07/strategy/34971703_1_bob-mansfield-apple-software-tim-cook
[10:07] <popey> I would be amazed if Apple switched to ARM on the laptop
[10:08] <shauno> I don't think it'd be a huge surprise, but I don't think it'll be any time soon either
[10:16] <gord> they might make a more laptoppy ipad though, if they want to keep up with the neighbours
[10:16] <mgdm> I'd not be too surprised by an ARM macbook air one day
[10:17] <mgdm> but then I don't know a lot about these things
[10:19] <directhex> mgdm, the problem is software. i can see it happening a long time in the future, when osx only runs software from the mac app store, so users can't really tell the difference
[10:23] <mgdm> well, the impression I had was that it was heading in that direction anyway
[10:32] <gord> directhex, i thought the same thing of windows. yet here we are with the surface machines
[10:33] <directhex> gord, yep, with Windows RT only able to run Metro apps from the windows 8 app store
[10:33] <directhex> plus Explorer and Office, which run on the old win7 desktop. on a tablet. bees, bees everywhere.
[10:33] <gord> i think it can run non metro apps, but they still have to be from the windows 8 app store
[10:35] <mgdm> yeah, the UI is a bit... glued together
[10:36] <directhex> (windows rt has a whitelist of permitted desktop apps - i.e. explorer and office are the only permitted ones)
[10:36] <directhex> but the app store does unify things for metro. apple aren't at the stage of having a metro-alike right now afaik
[10:37] <directhex> the mac app store, despite the sandboxing nonsense, is too "open" for every app to be trivially recompiled, so you end up with an ARM ghetto
[10:40] <directhex> gah. i like u1ms. i do. i like the cloudiness and stuff. but seriously, 7digital take, like, eleven million years longer than amazon to post new albums up
[10:41] <mungojerry> my ARM shares have gone up 20% in the last couple of week
[10:41] <czajkowski> gord: you in london this week ?
[10:42] <gord> nope, why would i be?
[10:42] <AlanBell> *everyone* should be in London this week
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Why?
[10:43] <mungojerry> i could see apple doing arm if they had their own foundry
[10:43] <czajkowski> gord: why not it's great here :)
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> mungojerry: ARM isn't fast enough on the high end
[10:44] <mungojerry> but apple are likely to do things to spite other firms
[10:44] <mungojerry> they like to go alone
[10:44] <mungojerry> and 64bit chips will develop over next couple of years
[10:45] <AlanBell> ARM can be fast enough if the problem can be parallelised enough
[10:45]  * MartijnVdS will not be in London this week. Because then the fibre people couldn't install fibre in my house ;)
[10:45] <directhex> it's not that ARM isn't fast enough on the high end (which *is* true btw)
[10:45] <directhex> it's that Mac apps run on Mac
[10:45]  * mgdm will not be in London this week, just because! Hah!
[10:46] <diplo> Just saw popey in LAS :)
[10:46] <shauno> directhex: I think it'd be a whole lot less messy than you'd assume.  the groundwork is already laid from the ppc->intel transition
[10:46] <directhex> any world where mac apps don't run on mac is a failure. an arm mac would need to run every x86 mac app, and run it just as well as an x86 mac (if not better, given it'd be newer hardware)
[10:48] <popey> diplo, wat?
[10:48] <mgdm> directhex: They did do that before, though I doubt they'd want to do it again
[10:48] <directhex> shauno, that was a piece of software they licensed, which had a real-world noticable slowdown attached. the slowest mac laptop on the market is an i5 1.7ghz. which arm chip will be able to run apps for that chip as fast or faster than that chip via an emulation layer?
[10:48] <diplo> Your face popped up in LAS under Chris's steam client
[10:48] <diplo> :)
[10:48] <popey> time?
[10:48] <mgdm> directhex: Macbook Air on ARM running iOS...?
[10:48] <directhex> they got away with it with ppc->intel as the fastest ppc chip on the market was an x86 running emulation software
[10:48] <directhex> mgdm, is not a mac.
[10:48] <diplo> About 48 mins ish
[10:48] <directhex> mgdm, that's the thing. if it runs ios it's not a mac, and they poison the mac brand with a mac that can't do mac things
[10:49] <popey> 46:38 :)
[10:49] <directhex> they could give an ipad a keyboard, but that's conceptually very different
[10:49] <diplo> ah, I'm about 10mins past so was a best guess :)
[10:50] <popey> he was accepting friend requests haha
[10:53] <popey> http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_nadia_whatsnew.php  " In 2011, GNOME 2 was renamed "MATE" and MATE 1.x made it possible for GNOME users to continue to use their favorite desktop."  O RLY?
[10:55]  * mgdm finally got sick of fallback mode's various bugs and is now running Unity
[10:55] <mgdm> just in time for them to announce it's going away
[10:55] <popey> Unity 2D?
[10:56] <dwatkins> Gnome 2 is named after birth control?
[10:56] <popey> its the "GNOME 2 was renamed 'MATE'" which I "O RLY'ed" at.
[10:57]  * Dave2 is trying to figure out what he should use, Unity is pretty slow on this machine.
[10:57] <diplo> aha directhex also mentioned at 55mins :D
[10:57] <Dave2> If Unity 2D still existed I'd be happy with that.
[10:57] <popey> unity 2d still exists in 12.04
[10:57] <mgdm> popey: 3D - I found that using VGA instead of DisplayPort makes the radeon driver not drop its guts every now and again
[10:57] <dwatkins> I installed lubuntu on my netbook, it flies along nicely with xfce.
[10:57] <popey> mgdm, what's going away?
[10:57] <mgdm> popey: fallback
[10:57] <popey> ahh
[10:58] <popey> yeah, lubuntu is quite fast
[10:58] <Dave2> popey: yes, but I installed this machine with 12.10, because Unity was OK at native resolution.
[10:58] <directhex> diplo, ?
[10:58] <popey> ah
[10:58] <Dave2> now that I'm running it at 1920x1080 1024x1280, it's struggling a bit.
[10:58] <diplo> LAS, Chris is buying games reference you ticking them off on reddit ( well I'm guessing there is only one directhex :P )
[11:04] <directhex> from reddit [A] sent 2 days ago
[11:04] <directhex> ChrisLAS just sent you 2 months of reddit gold! Wasn't that nice?
[11:04] <mungojerry> what is reddit gold?
[11:04] <diplo> If I knew what it was maybe.. :P
[11:04] <diplo> Great, not just me
[11:04] <candt> Hi I am trying to troubleshoot my ubuntu 12.04 which recently stopped showing chosen wallpaper at the login screen
[11:05] <mungojerry> i don't understand what reddit karma is either (what does it do? is it just a number?)
[11:06] <popey> Dave2, intel video card?
[11:06] <mungojerry> User:  You get access to new features before they are available to the community as a whole, access to some features that the community will never have access to, and you get access to a special subreddit and a trophy.  It's also a way for you to pay for a service that you enjoy.
[11:06] <Dave2> popey: yup
[11:07] <directhex> mungojerry, karma is a completely useless and arbitrary number that MEASURES YOUR WORTH AS A HUMAN BEING
[11:07] <popey> Dave2, disable active blur?
[11:08] <popey> Dave2, install compizconfig-settings-manager, run it, go to unity plugin, experimental, switch "Dash blur" to "No Blur"
[11:10] <Dave2> popey: that may or may not have helped, I shall have to see, thanks
[11:11] <popey> it will help the dash opening
[11:12] <Dave2> It's mainly laggy in normal operation
[11:13] <Dave2> Compiz isn't eating 100% CPU any more though, which is handy
[11:13] <Dave2> I'm not sure why it was doing that, it didn't before
[11:13] <directhex> the dash slows down all the things for me on a radeon when it tries to overlay the blur on top of a flash video
[11:13] <directhex> which is a reasonable thing for me to be doing
[11:22] <gord> flash video causes a constant redraw of the blur, which is what slows it down
[11:23] <AlanBell> surely s/flash video/anything in motion
[11:23] <gord> sure
[11:39] <mungojerry> got my screensaver button installed :D
[11:39] <mungojerry> i have a big button connected via usb to lock my pc
[11:40] <shauno> the least subtle bosskey in the world?
[11:40] <mungojerry> although i might change it to a convenient random abusive message generator
[11:40] <dwatkins> mungojerry: neat, I like being able to activate the screensaver - one of my colleagues would just say "what? an off button for the monitor?" ;)
[11:41] <mungojerry> one colleague has already pressed it, and it's been installed for five minutes
[11:41] <mungojerry> it lights up green and invites people to press
[11:41] <shauno> that's why all our big red buttons have drool guards on them :/
[11:41] <dwatkins> I had an l2ping script a while ago which activated my screensaver if I walked away [with my phone], as it detected its proximity via bluetooth.
[11:41] <mungojerry> i need to re-skin my button
[11:42] <dwatkins> what kind of button is it, mungojerry?
[11:42] <mungojerry> a green one
[11:42] <dwatkins> self-made or purchased?
[11:42] <mungojerry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bright-Ideas-Ecobutton-Global/dp/B0018MA4LE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1352720553&sr=8-3
[11:43] <mungojerry> plugged it in, and somehow magically, it runs alt-f2 "ecobutton" when pressed
[11:43] <mungojerry> don't know how
[11:43] <dwatkins> aha cool, I remember seeing one of those a while ago
[11:44] <mungojerry> so i put a script in /usr/local/bin to run xscreensaver-command -lock
[11:44] <candt> Hi I am trying to troubleshoot my ubuntu 12.04 which recently stopped showing chosen wallpaper at the login screen
[11:44] <dwatkins> it's probably in effect a keyboard, mungojerry
[11:44] <mungojerry> dwatkins, yes, but the alt-f2 magic?
[11:44] <mungojerry> i expected it to send a sleep key
[11:44]  * popey adds an item to the Ubuntu UK meeting agenda.
[11:44] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda?action=diff&rev1=139&rev2=140
[11:44] <popey> AlanBell, should it go to the list to discuss first?
[11:45] <mungojerry> candt, in older versions it was because the picture was not in the default folder
[11:45] <candt> Is this channel ok for trouble shoooting??
[11:45] <popey> candt, hi! :)
[11:45] <mungojerry> where does your desktop pic live?
[11:45] <AlanBell> o/ candt
[11:45] <popey> \o/ more Alans
[11:46] <candt> popey Hi!
[11:46] <AlanBell> popey: good topic, yeah throw it to the list as well that would be great
[11:46] <popey> candt, do you have home directory encrypted?
[11:48] <candt> I have the default bunch of pics in the default /usr/share/backgrounds, they work on th edesktop but  none appear at login, except the orange one
[11:49] <candt> popey - no encrypt
[11:50] <candt> I recently installed  the lubuntu desktop environment which takes over the boot up splash. but there was no immediate prob iirc
[11:51] <candt> Have now removed lubuntu desktop environment and *lubuntu* all removed.
[11:51] <popey> interesting, wonder if something else got left behind
[11:52] <popey> or indeed if something got replaced
[11:52] <candt> Anything I can reinstall? trying to avoid a full warm reinstall of 12.04....
[11:54] <AlanBell> candt: do you have multiple users set up with different wallpapers selected?
[11:54] <AlanBell> it should in theory fade between them as you select different people on the lightdm screen
[11:55] <AlanBell> if they are readable by, um, probably the lightdm user
[11:55] <AlanBell> which runs as root
[11:56] <AlanBell> candt: can you do ps aux |grep lightdm
[11:56] <AlanBell> root      1745  7.4  0.9 192388 79556 tty7     Ss+  Nov05 744:12 /usr/bin/X :0 -core -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch -background none
[11:56] <AlanBell> should be a line like that
[11:56] <candt> no only the one user. I usually use a custom wallpaper pic, chosen via (appearance), that worked ok also shown at login screen. It stopped. I then tried the default choices of wallpaper, but  not work for login still
[11:58] <candt> AlanBell it says no command 'aux' found ...
[11:59] <AlanBell> "ps aux |grep lightdm" the ps is the command aux are arguments to it
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> and grep is another command, lightdm its argument
[12:02] <candt> Doh! I though the ps was a 'please'!! :-(
[12:02] <AlanBell> nah, I am not that polite ;)
[12:02] <candt> AlanBell, ah yes lots of stuff
[12:03] <AlanBell> can you paste the line that looks similar to the one I pasted
[12:03] <candt> root      1102  0.0  0.0  34040  3148 ?        Ssl  09:28   0:00 lightdm
[12:03] <candt> root      1143  1.8  0.6  53708 25148 tty7     Ss+  09:28   2:54 /usr/bin/X :0 -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0 -nolisten tcp vt7 -novtswitch -background none
[12:03] <candt> root      1579  0.0  0.1  24252  5216 ?        Sl   09:28   0:00 lightdm --session-child 12 19
[12:03] <candt> candt     3687  0.0  0.0   4396   828 pts/1    S+   12:02   0:00 grep --color=auto lightdm
[12:03] <candt> Any use?
[12:04] <AlanBell> sadly not, yours looks fine.
[12:04] <AlanBell> I was thinking it might have lacked the -background bit or might have been different in some other way
[12:04] <AlanBell> oh, actually you are missing a -core
[12:05] <candt> AlanBell , ok thanks
[12:05] <AlanBell> I have /usr/bin/X :0 -core -auth, you have /usr/bin/X :0 -auth
[12:05] <AlanBell> perhaps someone clever knows why?
[12:13] <popey> I am not clever, and I still don't know why.
[12:17] <candt> If push comes to shove I will try a warm reinstall of ubuntu 12.04, maybe a reinstall of ubuntu-desktop first?, its not urgent but is unsettling that something  has gone wrong
[12:18] <diplo> Guys, seeing the email about Proposal for discussion, I was just wondering who wrote the wordpress theme.. trying to teach myself writing one now and wondered if the code was out there as I'm doing a similar design
[12:19] <diplo> I do miss pastebin.ubuntu-uk though :)
[12:19] <AlanBell> yeah, it is out there diplo light-wordpress-theme
[12:19] <candt> I need to sign off soon, thanks I will keep in touch. bye
[12:19]  * diplo looks thanks
[12:19] <candt> bye
[12:20] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-community-webthemes/ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-wordpress-theme
[12:20] <diplo> heh just found it ta
[12:20] <theopensourcerer> diplo: You are welcome to look at mine too: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/this-theme/
[12:21] <diplo> Biggest issue I'm having with theming at the moment is the navbars and how to do it properly
[12:22] <diplo> Will take a look at both and may harass you for tips later :)
[12:22] <diplo> A charity in the building I work in want a re-make of this
[12:22] <diplo> http://www.peopleagainstpoverty.com/
[12:23] <diplo> As they are loosing their free hosting/website in March
[12:23] <theopensourcerer> Why Wordpress diplo?
[12:24] <diplo> I haven't 100% set my mind on it yet, but the guy that maintains it/going to maintain it uses it quite heavily for other things
[12:24] <diplo> I've tried Concrete5 as well, I'm open to anything thoug
[12:24] <diplo> though*
[12:25] <theopensourcerer> I like Joomla! but that is just my personal preference.
[12:25] <diplo> You got any other recommendations, I code stuff manually at the moment for the company I work for but really dont want to do that for them
[12:25] <theopensourcerer> I came across C5 once - and we migrated the site to Joomla!
[12:25] <diplo> I did try Joomla a little while ago but had some issues but can defo give it a go again
[12:26] <diplo> Easy to template theopensourcerer ?
[12:26] <czajkowski> theopensourcerer: hate joomla ! http://iedr.ie/  read half way down what happened to google.ie and yahoo.ie due to an out of date joomla install
[12:26] <theopensourcerer> I think so. Although now in version 3 with all the bootstrap stuff I am less experienced yet so can't give you an honest answer.
[12:27] <AlanBell> yeah, you don't want an out of date *anything* install that is PHP based
[12:28] <diplo> I like the ease of updating on Wordpress, I don't have to be involved to much after live is why I thought about it
[12:28] <theopensourcerer> That is not Joomla!'s fault then. That sounds like it's the web master's for not keeping the thing up-to-date!
[12:28] <czajkowski> love wordpress
[12:28] <popey> dual screen issue, can any of you reproduce..? open chromium, have two windows, maximise on both screens. click into the window on one screen, then click into the window on the other screen, then move the mouse to the panel. The panel flickers to show the desktop background (the top line of it) and then back to the normal panel content.
[12:29] <theopensourcerer> J3 also now does auto-updating in a much nicer way.
[12:29] <diplo> popey: Love to test but chromium wouldn't maximise on my secondary screen this morning, always maxed to primary
[12:29] <diplo> OK theopensourcerer, will try it tonight!
[12:29] <diplo> :)
[12:29] <popey> diplo, make the window smaller and it will
[12:29] <popey> known bug
[12:30] <diplo> ah
[12:30] <popey> it needs to fit inside the smaller screen
[12:30] <diplo> ok, two secs then
[12:30] <theopensourcerer> diplo: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Joomla,%20Drupal,%20Concrete%205
[12:31] <diplo> Can't seem to recreate here popey
[12:31] <theopensourcerer> You can;t do Wordpress in here because of the oodles of millions of sites on Worpress.com
[12:32] <theopensourcerer> s\in here\ I mean on Google Trends.
[12:32] <diplo> OK, I'm sold.. will take a look tonight
[12:37] <diplo> Watching a how to joomla
[12:37] <diplo> on+
[12:38] <Dave2> popey: xorg still seems to like eating all of the cPU :(
[12:46] <christel> i have a dead person outside my house
[12:46] <christel> i should have realised that this was a possibility when moving into an old presbytery next to a church
[12:46] <christel> but i was incredibly surprised to open my frontdoor to stare straight into a hearse earlier
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> christel: "I see dead people" ?
[12:48] <gord> the other week i was at some crossing lights and as i pressed the button to cross i saw a hearse coming down the road. all i could do was cross my fingers and hope it wasn't the first one waiting once the lights changed
[12:49] <shauno> and we wonder why /r/britishproblems exists
[12:49] <christel> haha
[12:49] <MartijnVdS> shauno: /r/firstworldanarchists !
[12:51] <dwatkins> should hearses have infra-red transmitters to make lights turn for them like ambulances or police cars...?
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> Why would they? The dead guy won't mind waiting..
[12:53] <christel> (i am confused as to why the dead guy is still in the hearse, i thought the coffin was brought inside the church for the service?)
[12:53] <christel> (maybe he/she is very heavy)
[12:53] <shauno> perhaps he's early?
[12:53] <dwatkins> or late...
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> shauno: maybe they ran some red lights?
[12:54] <dwatkins> I'll get my coat.
[12:55] <shauno> one of those awkward moments where no matter how geeky you are, you're simply not allowed to go ask them what the system is
[12:56] <christel> oh perhaps, ppeople seem to still be arriving
[12:56] <theopensourcerer> Time to go. ttfn
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> christel: almost as if the hearse was in front of the procession..
[12:57] <christel> yeah but they've been arriving for like an hour!
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> maybe he had a lot of friends.. or enemies.. or creditors..
[12:58] <popey> anyone know someone who lives in winchester and fancies going on Come Dine With Me? :) https://www.facebook.com/comedinewithme/posts/10151258986604204
[12:58] <christel> good point good point
[12:58] <christel> popey: ooh i know people in winchester, i dunno if they fancy come dine with me
[12:58] <christel> (but my friend joel (another freenode user) is on CDWM this week)
[13:00] <Daviey> i am too near there. :o
[13:00] <christel> have you moved? in my mind you're in devon!
[13:01] <christel> (tho i might very well have made that up!) :D
[13:01] <Daviey> christel: I was, but moved to nr Winchester this year.
[13:02] <Daviey> christel: sheep can only please you for so long.
[13:02] <christel> there is that!
[13:02] <christel> we should beer now that you've moved somewhere sensible!
[13:02] <Daviey> christel: where are you now?
[13:04] <christel> i'm just outside farnham (so close to all the alans) :)
[13:04] <christel> "close"
[13:04] <Dave2> HOME OF THE HARD DISKS
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> christel: http://www.flayrah.com/4432/stalking-cat-confirmed-dead-54 ?
[13:04] <Dave2> Winchester, that is
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> Dave2: or the rifles?
[13:04] <christel> MartijnVdS: oh my!
[13:05] <christel> he looks... different
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> Dave2: . Project head Kenneth Haughton named it after the Winchester 30-30 rifle because it was planned to have two 30 MB spindles; however, the actual product shipped with two spindles for data modules of either 35 MB or 70 MB.\
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> christel: he wanted to turn himself into a cat.. or something
[13:05] <Dave2> Could you have one that was 35MB and one that was 70MB
[13:06] <MartijnVdS> Dave2: I have no idea
[13:06] <christel> MartijnVdS: meow.
[13:07] <MartijnVdS> Dave2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQWcIkoqXwg
[13:08] <Dave2> MartijnVdS: oh wow, YouTube is entirely unwatchable with Unity on this
[13:12] <czajkowski> someone should really show gareth france how to quote when he's replying on mails
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> Dave2: on what?
[13:12] <Dave2> MartijnVdS: my "new" work laptop
[13:32] <shauno> 6 years living in Ireland and I still trip over the language barrier.  half way through the boss saying something about his "little fella", I realised he was talking about his son, rather than an impending cringeworthy punchline
[13:36] <dwatkins> I won't cite the Batman comic I saw the other day, suffice to say words also change over time to mean less innocent things.
[13:37] <Daviey> dwatkins: A word that used to mean mistake, but now means something vulgar ?
[13:38] <dwatkins> yeah, Daviey 'Boner' apparently used to mean this.
[13:38] <Daviey> I have accidental used it in context myself.
[13:38] <dwatkins> What a ... ;)
[13:50] <czajkowski> shauno: hah! never thought of it any other way than it meaning a kid
[13:52] <AlanBell> heh, now you just have to grep your memory for all previous conversations containing that phrase to check you had the correct interpretation :)
[13:54] <shauno> usually it'd be a bit more obvious.  but it made a conversation about inherited baldness, rather awkward
[13:56] <czajkowski> lol
[13:57] <czajkowski> little fella and wee one for the girl usually
[14:18] <mungojerry> suffer from this crash every day 938379 but it's not fixed in 12.04, how come?
[14:18] <mungojerry> #938379
[14:19] <mungojerry> the bot is sleeping? bug 938379
[14:19] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 938379 in openbox (Ubuntu) "openbox crashed with SIGABRT after closing context menu" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938379
[14:24] <mungojerry> errors.ubuntu doesn't tell me how many crash per day
[14:26] <popey> mungojerry, nobody has backported it
[14:40] <ali1234> popey can you see private bugs?
[14:40] <popey> yes
[14:41] <popey> i see dead people
[14:42] <ali1234> popey: is https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034163 the same as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1076830 ?
[14:42] <lubotu3`> Error: launchpad bug 1034163 not found
[14:42] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076830 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "panel crashes if you add, remove, then add the same applet" [Undecided,New]
[14:43] <popey> descriptions doesnt match
[14:43] <popey> person switched theme
[14:44] <popey> made that bug public, there's nothing secret on it
[14:45] <Daviey> popey: there isn't, now i removed the stacktrace :)
[14:46] <popey> :p
[14:47] <ali1234> k. i ask because my bug sends a report to errors every time, but there's only one bug with a significant number of reports for gnome panel, and it's the private one
[14:48] <ali1234> so either nobody else at all hit my bug or daisy isn't identifying that the crashes are all the same bug
[14:48] <ali1234> also it looks like my machine only uploaded a crash dump once even though i've reproduced the problem several times
[14:49] <ali1234> and it asked me whether to send each time of course
[15:08] <mungojerry> popey, looks like I have to compile my own then :(
[15:09] <mungojerry> does ubuntu provide an easy way to do your own backports?
[15:09] <popey> feel free to poke the people responsible
[15:10] <mungojerry> people are asking that on LP , i don't know who the maintainer is though
[15:11] <mungojerry> looks like nico golde https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbox/3.5.0-4
[15:13] <mungojerry> although errors.ubuntu is showing as many crashes per day on 12.04 as 12.10
[15:13] <mungojerry> maybe a different crash but not promising
[15:18] <mungojerry> might have to go back to cinnamon :-\
[15:19] <popey> where is the openbox crash on errors.ubuntu.com?
[15:20] <mungojerry> showing error reports from "all" users of "openbox"
[15:20] <popey> which is the crash?
[15:21] <mungojerry> bug 938379 in 3.5.0.2
[15:21] <popey> oh, its filtered now, there's _one_?
[15:21] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 938379 in openbox (Ubuntu) "openbox crashed with SIGABRT after closing context menu" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938379
[15:21] <mungojerry> one result?
[15:21] <popey> one per day
[15:21] <popey> well, only one result
[15:23] <mungojerry> i think i'm using it wrong: http://ubuntuone.com/545SiZ2XXlckH7Q0pjy4FN
[15:23] <popey> http://ubuntuone.com/3xFcWumeq0vWJ1ZaaHQmdx
[15:24] <popey> how odd
[15:24] <popey> ahh, i had past day
[15:24] <mungojerry> the axis does not show values though
[15:25] <mungojerry> but implies that the blue line (12.10) has as many crashes as 12.04
[15:25] <mungojerry> and i expect 12.04 has more users still?
[15:25] <mungojerry> or at least a similar amount
[15:26] <popey> well if you only show one release its easier to see
[15:26] <popey> yes, I'd expect more users on 12.04 than 12.10
[15:26] <popey> however its not as simple as that, 12.04 has unity 2d, 12.10 doesn't
[15:26] <mungojerry> so, in effect, 12.10 versino is more crashy
[15:27] <mungojerry> even if the specifc bug is fxied
[15:28] <SuperMatt> while it may be more crashy, it's not noticably crashy, most of the time
[15:28] <popey> you're probably best bringing this up in #lubuntu with https://launchpad.net/~gilir
[15:28] <SuperMatt> I tend to get a message saying something has crashed and I got go "oh? it has? didn't even notice"
[15:28] <mungojerry> thanks
[15:28] <mungojerry> i like the errors faiciility
[15:29] <mungojerry> they could use it to crash an app to find out how many active ubuntu users in the world :P
[15:30] <popey> the bug is misfiled
[15:30] <popey> its not assigned to gtk+
[15:31] <popey> given the upstream bug
[15:32] <ali1234> the graph is weird anwyay
[15:33] <ali1234> as i understand it's supposed to show the probability that the average ubuntu machine crashes during 24 hours of use
[15:34] <ali1234> but it doesn't consider uptime so it's actually the probability of a machine crashing in a 24 hour period, regardless of whether it crashes, but only using data from machines that crashed a least once
[15:34] <mungojerry> don't we just wanna see number of crashses per day everywhere?
[15:37] <ali1234> i dunno
[15:37] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1046269
[15:37] <mungojerry> my openbox process crashes a couple of times a day anyhow
[15:37] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1046269 in Whoopsie ""Errors/day" wrongly depends on how many hours Ubuntu is used" [Undecided,New]
[15:37] <mungojerry> do you get number on your axes?
[15:38] <popey> no
[15:43] <bootlkjkgf> Mini-SausageRolls !
[15:47] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure that whoopsie only reports each crash once regardless of how many times it shows that dialog
[15:48] <SuperMatt> I figured it would do it all the time to get an idea of how many times a particular app crashes
[15:48] <SuperMatt> what happens with whoopsie crashes?
[15:49] <popey> once per machine per crash isn't it?
[15:49] <popey> it updates the counter though
[15:49] <SuperMatt> ah, fair enough
[15:49] <popey> so it knows if one person has had 100 crashes vs 100 machines with 1 crash
[15:49] <SuperMatt> wicked
[15:50] <popey> and means it does have 100 identical crashes from the same machine to process
[15:56] <bootlkjkgf> That sinkin' feelin' when you knew you 'should-have-egg'd-it'
[15:57]  * popey wonders if bootlkjkgf strives for randomness
[15:58]  * mgdm wonders if bootlkjkgf is a bot
[16:00]  * Daviey always wondered what you two wondered about.
[16:01]  * mgdm also wonders about Daviey 
[16:07] <bootlkjkgf> http://shibataoffice.com/  Almost read it as SHIT-BAD hahaha Ghehe ^_^
[16:08] <SuperMatt> is it kicking tiem?
[16:13] <bootlkjkgf> SuperMatt, Yea, ya might as well http://open.spotify.com/track/31pfPf3XFaWjUPPrqd82Jg
[16:21] <diplo> Just had my first touch with Windows 8
[16:22] <diplo> Well, it seems just as bad as I had imagined...
[16:22] <diplo> So from my first experience, am I seeing you can't use MS apps like Mail without having a MS Live account ?
[16:22] <shauno> it mostly just seems like a strange practical joke to play on anyone who buys a new computer for the next few years
[16:23] <diplo> shauno: 100% agree, I understand it for a tablet, but a PC/Laptop?
[16:25] <popey> hah, same thing everyone said about Unity & GNOME Shell & OSX Mountain Lion
[16:26] <diplo> popey: But not being able to use Windows Mail without a MS account... and a few other apps
[16:26] <diplo> It's awful, where as I like unity and gnome 3
[16:27] <diplo> And mac
[16:27] <popey> like not being able to use mac features without a .me account, or ubuntu features without a U1 account .. :)
[16:27] <diplo> yeah exactly
[16:28] <shauno> the last version I tried didn't support regular mail accounts at all.  I kinda assumed they'd have imap by time they shipped though
[16:28] <diplo> I'm not forced to use u1, this is a business laptop, they don't want to sign up to an MS account to use it ( then again they should also spend money on outlook or use thunderbird )
[16:29] <mgdm> what's that about needing an MS accout for mail?
[16:29] <mgdm> I set it up to use my IMAP server... (it doesn't work, right enough)
[16:31] <diplo> To be able to add accounts you first need to set up an MS account, just think it sucks basically.
[16:31] <popey> bet you can work around it
[16:32] <popey> corporates wont want that
[16:32] <diplo> Expect so, this is for someone in the offices where I work
[16:32] <diplo> I didn't want to spend too much time on it, but googled it and it seems it's correct
[16:33] <diplo> But.. I guess they could have ordered home premium or something maybe ( didn't check or know how to )
[16:33] <diplo> Well at least it's the nail in the coffin for windows for me once 7 is eol
[16:34] <diplo> Just need to replace current laptop so it can run *nix of some variety properly and we're good to go
[17:02] <kvarley> popey: Where did you get your Ubuntu sticker you have on your laptop lid?
[17:04] <popey> kvarley, the big round one?
[17:05] <popey> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
[17:06] <kvarley> popey: I didn't realise that they were that big :)
[17:06] <popey> heh
[20:10] <AlanBell> czajkowski: where did you get to on the hack and talk thingie?
[20:12] <popey> ooh! good question!
[20:18] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I visited the firebox place and it was really quite nice
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> http://gizmodo.com/5959812/john-mcafee-wanted-for-murder
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> the next Reiser
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> ?
[20:44] <mgdm> I had heard he was in trouble a while ago
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> yeah but now he's really "wanted"
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: Did you know this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz
[20:46] <czajkowski> AlanBell: popey not done anything on it tbh
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: "mr pkzip"
[20:46] <czajkowski> was in ireland and then uds
[20:46] <czajkowski> hope to this week
[20:46] <czajkowski> popey: see pm please :)
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you were in Ireland before UDS? I was in Ireland before UDS!
[20:47] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: I have a vague memory of it
[20:50] <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: I was there for 3 weeks
[20:51] <czajkowski> why didn't you say! was there for most of October!
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I forgot! I was in Dublin from 26-29 October
[20:52] <czajkowski> bah
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks
[21:03] <czajkowski> I used to work close to here http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/8136310934/in/photostream
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: "somewhere in the middle of the city"? :)
[21:08] <czajkowski> hmm smithfield would be the easiest landmark
[21:08] <czajkowski> jameson distilary
[21:08] <czajkowski> acros the bridge from Guiness store
[21:08] <czajkowski> *across
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: this photo was taken from O'Connell bridge
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> didn't have time for the Jameson distillery, did go to the Guinness storehouse though :)
[21:24] <Azelphur> I'm thinking of buying my nexus 4 + nexus 10 from USA
[21:25] <Azelphur> there's a price difference of £127, ridiculous
[21:26] <ali1234> really?
[21:26] <brobostigon> £239 for the nexus4. not bad really.
[21:27] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea
[21:27] <ali1234> so it costs more than twice as much to buy it in the UK?
[21:27] <ali1234> oh. i don't acre about the nexus 10
[21:28] <ali1234> how much is nexus 4 in US?
[21:28] <Azelphur> Nexus 10: £319 / $499, Nexus 4 £279 / $349
[21:28] <brobostigon> Azelphur: so you can buy the nexus4 unlocked etc, for £112 ?
[21:28] <ali1234> so nexus 4 is the same price, basically
[21:29] <Azelphur> ali1234: no?
[21:29] <Azelphur> 349 usd in gbp is £219
[21:29] <ali1234> and in the UK it costs £239
[21:29] <Azelphur> ali1234: that's the 8GB, talking about the 16 here
[21:29] <Azelphur> for the 8 it's $299 / £239
[21:30] <Azelphur> and 299 usd == £188.28
[21:30] <ali1234> not bad
[21:31] <popey> US price is without taxes
[21:31] <popey> so add VAT to the UK price and it's more comparable
[21:32] <ali1234> you mean subtract
[21:32] <Azelphur> so with the nexus 4 costing $349 and the 10 costing $499, comes to £534 UK vs the £598 we'd get paid
[21:32] <popey> yes :)
[21:32] <Azelphur> yea, stupid VAT :p
[21:32] <popey> I meant "convert to GBP and add VAT"
[21:32] <popey> but typed something else
[21:32] <ali1234> well 20% VAT still isn't going to make up the £90 difference
[21:32] <ali1234> een if you add on shipping charges and exchange rate fees
[21:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: sure it is, 20% of £534 is £106.80
[21:33] <ali1234> £50
[21:34] <ali1234> 239-188 = 50
[21:34] <Azelphur> ah
[21:34] <ali1234> 188*0.2 = 36
[21:34] <ali1234> well, 37.6
[21:34] <Azelphur> I see
[21:34] <ali1234> then 12.50 for shipping
[21:34] <ali1234> seems about right really
[21:34] <ali1234> if you don't wanna pay vat just set up a company and claim it back
[21:37] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:37] <Azelphur> yea, I really need to find someone nearby me with a company so I can mooch off them
[23:35] <Azelphur> Just in case anyone wants a Galaxy S3, http://bit.ly/Q9ezQo I'll do a considerable discount on the buy it now price for ubuntu-uk folks :p