[14:41] <ochosi> ok, so the point was (now for everyone to read): do we want a png-icon-theme by default
[14:41] <GridCube> whats the difference with non png icon themes?
[14:42] <ochosi> png is much faster
[14:42] <GridCube> thats good
[14:42] <ochosi> it increases performance visibly
[14:42] <GridCube> more good
[14:42] <ochosi> but there are two problems with it:
[14:42] <ochosi> 1) it doesn't get scaled, so i have to draw lots of missing icon-sizes
[14:42] <ochosi> 2) it's much larger in filesizes, ~2times the size
[14:42] <ochosi> so it'd be ~55mb instead of 27mb
[14:43] <SkippersBoss> What is the speed difference. 
[14:43] <pleia2> I think strategy document wise, we stick with non-png
[14:43] <ochosi> so that brings up the question whether we should go for a 1gb image instead of the CD image
[14:43] <ochosi> because making 25 extra mb isn't all-too-realistic
[14:43] <pleia2> we're not going for fast over usability, I can imagine all the "missing icons" bugs :\
[14:44] <SkippersBoss> I do not think after the search for bites for the last release we can afford it
[14:44] <mr_pouit> (nick was able toto see a visible speed increase even with an i5 or something very recent)
[14:44] <ochosi> pleia2: well, no missing icons, they'd just be e.g. too large :} no, but i'm willing to work on that
[14:44] <SkippersBoss> Can we update ubottuto relay all them bug reports to ochosi 
[14:45] <GridCube> ochosi, oh... but space its a HUGE concern, unless we choose to go dvd and no cd size anymore
[14:45] <GridCube> i mean, we drop languages for space, languages
[14:45] <SkippersBoss> I second that
[14:45] <ochosi> GridCube: well yes, that's the point of the discussion
[14:45] <SkippersBoss> not only languages
[14:45] <pleia2> ochosi: I use a lot of wrong size icons that scale nicely, I imagine a lot of people do and it would be a pretty obvious visual regression
[14:45] <ochosi> SkippersBoss: all theme and icon-bugs already go to me
[14:45] <SkippersBoss> :-)
[14:45] <GridCube> im sorry bug space its more important than speed on my book
[14:45] <ochosi> pleia2: what do you mean? you _consciously_ use wrong-size icons? =)
[14:46] <pleia2> ochosi: I just clicky clicky to find a nice icon to match what I put in my panel, I don't much pay attention to the size
[14:46] <GridCube> i usually just get 256x256 icons and they scale nicely
[14:47] <ochosi> pleia2: in the panel they'd be scaled i think. it's more about menus
[14:47] <ochosi> pleia2: so it's less about app-icons than gtk-actions and gtk-stock in general
[14:47] <pleia2> and I think it would be impossible to track down every use of every size of icon in whatever people are using for panels/docks/whatever additional thing they're adding to make xfce work they way they want it to
[14:47] <pleia2> (plus it would increase the size even more)
[14:48] <ochosi> the faenza-icon theme proves you wrong
[14:48] <ochosi> (i mean faenza icon-theme :))
[14:49] <ochosi> it's definitely not impossible
[14:49] <pleia2> ok
[14:50] <ochosi> but i'm not willing to even start working on this unless we have a clear decision, that's why i thought i'd bring it up (again)
[14:50] <ochosi> partly also because NSchermer wrote a script to convert the theme to png
[14:50] <GridCube> if its more space consuming, no.
[14:50] <ochosi> which means we can maintain it as svg and ship it as png
[14:51] <ochosi> GridCube: you're worrying about 25mb of free space?
[14:51] <knome> the thing is, we decided that we should fit a CD for Q, meaning we should try to do that for the next LTS too
[14:51] <SkippersBoss> ochosi, not if the next release will be on DVD
[14:52] <GridCube> ochosi, the problem is, im sure there are going to be lots of other space consuming things, if there are, every bit counts
[14:52] <knome> it is of course open for discussion, but we already have done one release with the CD-target
[14:52] <knome> we might be able to drop python2 from R
[14:52] <SkippersBoss> euh ?? hmm
[14:52] <GridCube> id prefer less speed, for more options on the install cd, namely langs
[14:53] <ochosi> the point is that xubuntu will be always slow, not just on the install-cd
[14:53] <knome> depends on the speed difference
[14:53] <ochosi> the options you're talking about only affect the one-time process of installing
[14:53] <SkippersBoss> Knome has a point in does R need to be released on CD
[14:53] <ochosi> (juist saying)
[14:54] <GridCube> ochosi, i do understand that. Can't it be made a -png package that you can install to replace -svg icons? like "for reasons of space we ship this svg icons that make the  system slower, if you want fastiness, try xubuntu-icons-png"
[14:55] <knome> that sounds like something i wouldn't want to do
[14:56] <ochosi> +1
[14:57] <ochosi> k, g2g now, prolly bbl
[18:49] <bluesabre_> oh how far we have come.  http://chrishaney.com/?linux&release=Xubuntu%206.10
[18:51] <knome> heh
[18:51] <pleia2> oh nice, knome already made the switch to 12.10 on our website
[18:51] <pleia2> <3
[18:52] <knome> haha, sure
[18:52] <pleia2> http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2012/11/xubuntu-1210-day-1-first-impressions.html
[18:52] <knome> feel free to add to the press page
[18:52] <pleia2> and as always http://news.softpedia.com/news/Xubuntu-12-10-Has-Been-Officially-Released-Screenshot-Tour-300260.shtml
[18:53] <knome> :)
[18:53]  * pleia2 gets to adding
[18:53] <knome> thanks
[18:53] <pleia2> getting new screenshots is also on my todo list
[18:53] <pleia2> I'll try to get to it today
[18:54]  * astraljava didn't have the privilege of using Xubuntu back in the Edgy times, yet.
[18:54] <astraljava> Didn't look _too_ bad.
[18:54] <knome> pleia2, cheers!
[18:54] <pleia2> knome: also will review the mailing list settings
[18:54] <knome> woohoo