[02:26] <ScottK> Is kdevelop 4.3.90 -> 4.4.1 something that'd be manageable with an SRU?
[02:26] <shadeslayer> It should
[02:26] <shadeslayer> I already have it filed
[02:26] <shadeslayer> was going to get to it tomorrow
[02:27] <shadeslayer> already uploaded it to raring
[02:27] <ScottK> OK.
[02:40] <ScottK> Any more word on Dantti?
[02:42] <shadeslayer> last I heard his wife was flying out
[02:58] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[04:00]  * shadeslayer found a silly bug
[04:01] <shadeslayer> the wallpapers in the wallpaper ui chooser are sorted by the dir names instead of the name provided by the desktop file
[04:01] <shadeslayer> hooray for silly code
[07:52] <jussi> Morning all
[07:56] <Tm_T> morning
[09:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: please be filing a removal request or something for the old gtk kcm
[10:16] <BluesKaj> howdy all
[10:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://paste.kde.org/605492/ yay or nay?
[10:58] <apachelogger> ah nvm, that is not new anyway
[10:58] <apachelogger> still spook yIMHO
[11:22] <apachelogger> hm
[11:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cyberspace/muon/1.4/revision/1522  vs. http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=phonon-vlc.git&a=blobdiff&h=49de65a603128cdcb2281d60f6235ef8fc61bcf7&hp=0f31b4d7141e54c367036feedab6d83bdbe4a1d2&hb=3f87eafda1efc9a3eba6c7d92263a93673b67dad&f=CMakeLists.txt
[11:23] <apachelogger> what I am saying is: please define your version via cmake in your top level cmakelists or I'll start crying
[11:33] <yofel_> wth...? bug 1063741
[11:34] <yofel> is it just me or is kde library handling broken by design?
[11:34] <apachelogger> no
[11:34] <apachelogger> digikam library handlign is broken by design
[11:34] <apachelogger> yofel: if you want some entertainment mention digikam to sune
[11:34] <yofel> well, I remember similiar stuff with marble a while back...
[11:34] <apachelogger> he goes :@ 90% of the time followed by a brief :( followed by more :@
[11:35] <yofel> lol
[11:35] <apachelogger> yofel: well, they are all doing it wrong :P
[11:35] <yofel> well, I know the digikam packaging, so... :@
[11:36] <apachelogger> no clue what marble's problem was, but with kipi it's basically that they keep breaking BIC while not addressing that in the plugin part
[11:36] <yofel> . . .
[11:37] <yofel> guess I'll put a rebuild of digikam into backports, should "fix" this
[11:37] <apachelogger> that's what we do traditionally
[11:37] <yofel> yeah -.-
[11:38] <apachelogger> actually that crash is weird
[11:38] <apachelogger> how do you get that
[11:38] <apachelogger> oh
[11:38] <apachelogger> if ye don't bump your so you don't get no error
[11:38] <apachelogger> harrr
[11:38] <apachelogger> see
[11:38] <apachelogger> they are using it wrong
[11:39] <apachelogger> next year at akademy: Phonon: how to not make puppies die from BIC changes and how to use qplugn properly
[11:40] <yofel> well, libkipi does usually bump the so, as this is about a libkipi8 <-> libkipi9 conflict
[11:40] <yofel> *unless* digikam ignores that, which would't really surprise me
[11:41] <yofel> +n
[11:41] <apachelogger> latter is actually fun because if you can run into a scenario where you definitely want to load a plugin buitl against foo1 into an app using foo2 you have to know how qinterfaces *actually* work
[11:42] <apachelogger> and interestingly enough phonon in theory supports loading new plugins into old libraries although until I took over plugins were distributed alongside libphonon so you could not even get to a point where you'd have an old libphonon and a new plugin ^^
[11:42] <apachelogger> yofel: there is no conflict
[11:42] <yofel> then how would it crash?
[11:43] <apachelogger> well, there would be a conflict if you try loading both at the same time
[11:43] <apachelogger> which could happen if they are using it wrong :P
[11:43] <yofel> looks like that happens.
[11:44] <apachelogger> broken by design
[11:44] <apachelogger> I imagine it goes like this
[11:44] <apachelogger> libkipi9 -> loads plugins -> plugins load libkipi8
[11:45] <apachelogger> how do you prevent that ... plugins mark the soname they were built against
[11:45] <apachelogger> libkipi9 -> can only load plugins built against libkipi9 -> plugins need not laod libkipi9 (already in address space)
[11:46] <apachelogger> in the simplest of implementations the plugin desktop file would have X-KDE-BC=9
[11:46] <yofel> ... meaning you would still end up with having to rebuild everything?
[11:46] <apachelogger> yofel: you always do, that is why good libaries need not break their BC all the time
[11:46] <apachelogger> BUT
[11:46] <apachelogger> your app would not crash
[11:47] <yofel> true
[11:47] <apachelogger> it would perhaps not have an plugins to load
[11:47] <apachelogger> but it would not fucking crash
[11:47] <apachelogger> q.e.d they are using it wrong :P
[11:48] <apachelogger> now imagine digikam where to static link libkipi and runtime load plugins from the sytem :D :D :D
[11:48]  * apachelogger sees that totally happen in the future :P
[11:48] <yofel> apachelogger: please stop, I would like to keep the bit of sanity I have left
[11:48] <yofel> and explain that to gilles.....
[11:50] <yofel> kde bug 308019 if you ever feel like ranting
[11:50] <apachelogger> yeah at next years akademy in my keynote about not messing up that library crap ^^
[11:50] <yofel> :D
[11:51] <yofel> seems like I should be rebuilding kamoso and kphotoalbum too while at it
[11:58] <apachelogger> ScottK, Riddell: council approval still pending for specs right?
[12:01] <Quintasan_> Riddell: Did you happen to post our Kubuntu Team photo somewhere? I'd like to include it in my blog post if I ever get to it
[12:02] <yofel> Quintasan: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/8169377493
[12:02] <Quintasan> yofel: thanks
[12:02]  * Quintasan goes back home to learn algebra
[12:02] <Quintasan> test tomorrow :l
[12:04] <Quintasan> hurrr too much stuff pilling up
[12:04] <Quintasan> gotta take care of it fast or it will kill me
[12:05] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes I want to tidy up the work items and organise a meeting todady
[12:05] <apachelogger> goody, I have meeting topics too ^^
[12:08] <Quintasan> Riddell: as in meeting today or just setting up a poll?
[12:08] <apachelogger> Quintasan: today ofc
[12:16] <Riddell> Quintasan: setting up a poll
[13:36] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes.  We need a meeting yet.
[14:21] <apachelogger> ScottK: transitional packages for settings yay or nay?
[14:25] <apachelogger> oh lol, 12.04 is supported until 17.04 so the transitionals would not be removalable until 17.10 ^^
[14:30] <debfx> question is if LTS -> LTS+2 upgrades will be supported (which I doubt)
[14:31] <debfx> 12.04 -> 17.04 will certainly not be supported
[14:31] <apachelogger> u sure about htat?
[14:32] <apachelogger> perhaps it is just me but it would sorta defeat the purpose if in 2017 I then have to upgrade to 15. to get to 17.
[14:33] <debfx> yes, unless the LTS schedule changes
[14:34] <apachelogger> debfx: what does this have to do with the schedule itself?
[14:34] <debfx> it seems unlikely that you stick with an LTS for 5 years and then want to upgrade to the latest non-LTS release
[14:34] <apachelogger> 17.05 would be LTS
[14:34] <apachelogger> 17.04
[14:34] <apachelogger> or am I getting it wrong
[14:34] <apachelogger> what year do we ahve?
[14:34] <apachelogger> Oo
[14:34]  * Quintasan needs his burndown chart
[14:35] <debfx> 16.04 would be an LTS
[14:35] <apachelogger> 12.04 -> 14.04 -> 16.04
[14:35] <apachelogger> ah yes
[14:35] <Quintasan> What debfx said
[14:35] <apachelogger> debfx: so we have 16.10 as removal point for transitional packages...
[14:36] <debfx> or 14.10 if LTS -> LTS+2 won't be supported (atm they aren't)
[14:39] <apachelogger> actually I fail to find documentation on that in general
[14:39] <apachelogger> seems we just happen to be nice enough to allow an LTS2LTS upgrade path
[14:41] <yofel> we do support LTS upgrades (at least I try to), but I'm not keen  on supporting LTS -> LTS+2
[14:42] <yofel> that'll probably too many system architecture changes to support 
[14:42] <apachelogger> my point is there is no official documentation saying we/ubuntu does that
[14:42] <yofel> insert be somewhere
[14:42] <apachelogger> or maybe I can't find it
[14:43] <yofel> uh... update-manager defaults to LTS upgrades if you run a LTS release?
[14:43] <yofel> why would it do that if that weren't supported
[14:43] <apachelogger> dunno
[14:43] <apachelogger> there still is no statement
[14:44] <Riddell> it's always been the case that release to release+1 and LTS to LTS+1 upgrades are supported and nothing else
[14:46] <apachelogger> there still is no statement
[14:46] <apachelogger> "Upgrades to new versions of Ubuntu are and always will be free of charge." what it says on the LTS wiki page about upgrades
[14:47] <apachelogger> Riddell, ScottK: the mighty release team probably should issue a statement to clearify 
[14:47] <apachelogger> also documentation should then be updated accordingly
[15:13] <yofel> ScottK: we should probably hold of 4.9.3 for quantal until kde bug 309787 gets looked into
[15:14] <shadeslayer> aye, I have hit that as well
[15:16] <apachelogger> oh
[15:17] <apachelogger> works here Oo
[15:17] <tsimpson> I've seen it "sometimes"
[15:17] <yofel> type 'konso' for konsole
[15:17] <tsimpson> most of the times it works, sometimes not
[15:17] <apachelogger> yeah
[15:17] <apachelogger> never seen it not work
[15:17] <yofel> yeah, it's a bit random here too
[15:17] <apachelogger> though I really mostly launch apps via a terminal
[15:17] <shadeslayer> dunno, doesn't work for me
[15:17] <apachelogger> bad experiences with krunner made me not want to use it
[15:18] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:18] <yofel> actually
[15:18] <apachelogger> ordering is all off if you ask me
[15:18] <apachelogger> half the time I got some other crap listed 
[15:18] <yofel> I can open something *once* with a keyword
[15:19] <apachelogger> keyword?
[15:19] <yofel> typing 'kons' opens, konsole, but doesn't work a second time
[15:19] <yofel> -,
[15:19] <apachelogger> can do it as often as I want
[15:19] <apachelogger> haha :P
[15:19] <yofel> grrrr
[15:19] <apachelogger> yofel: gdb trace that I'd say
[15:20] <tsimpson> I think it's a focusing issue, I type "kons" and Konsole shows up, but I can't interact with the menu via the keyboard. but, if I press Up then Down the text box looses focus and the menu gains it
[15:21] <yofel> hm, no time for that now, but I would sure like to know why my xsession-errors is full of 
[15:21] <yofel> (Parent is Solid::Backends::UDisks::UDisksDevice(0x21dd0c0), parent's thread is QThread(0x1c09260), current thread is ThreadWeaver::Thread(0x1c30ec0)
[15:21] <yofel> QObject: Cannot create children for a parent that is in a different thread.
[15:21] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1077965] qt4 applications over X forward run slower than with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1077965 (by Stefan Pielmeier)
[15:21] <apachelogger> because that is a qdebug
[15:22]  * apachelogger wants award for most correct but useless answer of the day
[15:23] <apachelogger> yofel: don't see that either *shrug*
[15:23] <yofel> hm, no wonder christoph blames aseigo with a commit like this: http://paste.kde.org/605696
[15:23] <tsimpson> -pedantic mode enabled
[15:23] <tsimpson> it's actually a qWarning()
[15:23] <yofel> ah, nvm then I guess
[15:28] <apachelogger> still bogus code
[15:29] <apachelogger> we should totally force QT_FATAL_WARNINGS while in development
[15:29] <apachelogger> annoy upstream into fixing their codez
[15:32] <yofel> we should also be building tests. Quintasan: any progress on that side? (or I guess not yet had any time to look at it?)
[15:33] <shadeslayer> yofel: is the janitor online?
[15:33] <yofel> didn't hear anything yet, you would have to ask czajkowski or wgrant
[15:34] <Quintasan> yofel: What tests?
[15:35] <apachelogger> built from 4.9 branch still not broken
[15:35] <apachelogger> ....
[15:35] <Quintasan> yofel: Tests for Qt or kdelibs or what?
[15:35] <Quintasan> I don't think we can get anything to build in neon ppa
[15:35] <Quintasan> xD
[15:36] <Quintasan> wow
[15:37] <Quintasan> yofel, shadeslayer: 55k builds
[15:37] <Quintasan> and only 4,6k failuers
[15:37] <Quintasan> apachelogger: 67.2 GiB (100.00%) of 32.0 GiB
[15:37] <Quintasan> sup
[15:37] <shadeslayer> xD
[15:37] <apachelogger> launchpad
[15:37] <apachelogger> that's what's up
[15:38] <yofel> Quintasan: any tests (though I meant kde)
[15:38] <Quintasan> This makes me giggle everytime I see it
[15:38] <yofel> Quintasan: and as the recipes still build who cares :P
[15:38] <Quintasan> yofel: not today, preparing for test
[15:38] <yofel> sure, was just curious
[15:38] <Quintasan> will look at maliit tomorrow and kdelibs later on
[15:38] <Quintasan> maliit is my priority list now
[15:38] <apachelogger> yofel: time to ask for more spaces
[15:38] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Guess what I did at UDS
[15:39] <apachelogger> either they run out of spaces or fix it
[15:39] <apachelogger> former would be more fun TBH
[15:39] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I asked Laura if she could increase the size to 16GB, instead she gave us ADDITIONAL 16GB
[15:39] <Quintasan> Guess being vague about that was a good thing
[15:40] <apachelogger> Quintasan: unused U1 resources need to go somewhere :P
[15:40] <Quintasan> Well, we are using that space pretty freely
[15:41] <Quintasan> more than 200% of the size allocated
[15:41] <Quintasan> :P
[15:41] <Quintasan> A total of 59927 builds have been dispatched for this PPA.
[15:41] <Quintasan> almost 60k build
[15:41] <apachelogger> which is why you should request more spaces
[15:41] <apachelogger> :P
[15:42] <yofel> I should request more space for the scribus ppa
[15:42] <yofel> that uses 16GiB of 2GiB :D
[15:42] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Go ahead and try doing that
[15:43] <Quintasan> I so DON'T want to see their reaction to "Hey guys, we'd like some more space for Project Neon PPA"
[15:43] <yofel> :D
[15:47] <apachelogger> Quintasan: move to OBS then
[15:47] <apachelogger> as I see it software is broken and until software is fixed we needs moar spaces to keep production rolling
[15:47] <xnox> apachelogger: OBS does not have universe and debian main is "filtered" as well.
[15:48] <xnox> plus they install build-deps - one package at a time which kills dpkg......
[15:48] <shadeslayer> @_@
[15:48]  * apachelogger actually has fixes for latter
[15:48] <apachelogger> fixes/rewrite
[15:48] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Fancy rewriting everything for OBS?
[15:48] <apachelogger> rewrote
[15:49] <apachelogger> I am not copyright holder though so those changes will rot somewhere I am afraid
[15:49] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I mean neon recipes
[15:50] <apachelogger> Quintasan: oh, hardly an effort with OBS
[15:51] <yofel> that shouldn't be much work, I mean all you need is a cronjob to push the packages, and a bzr-builder replacement to create them
[15:51] <shadeslayer> we have a good thing going with LP
[15:51] <shadeslayer> why screw everything
[15:51] <apachelogger> because Quintasan refuses to ask for more spaces :P
[15:51] <yofel> OBS doesn't support the dev release though, so I'm not too keen on using it
[15:52] <shadeslayer> do we even need more space?
[15:52] <yofel> apachelogger: should be fixed soon anyway once lp is fixed
[15:52] <shadeslayer> we have like 30 GB's of it
[15:52] <apachelogger> yofel: s/support/import
[15:52] <apachelogger> it's not a matter of support it is a matter of import ;)
[15:52] <Quintasan> I don't care about OBS
[15:53] <Quintasan> Hopefully once lp is fixed we will be having a surplus of space
[15:53] <yofel> 32GiB is plenty, if the janitor would be running
[15:53] <Quintasan> MEANING for builds
[15:53] <apachelogger> you can give some back then ^^
[15:53] <Quintasan> >apachelogger
[15:53] <yofel> and it's not like anything is actually FAILING
[15:53] <Quintasan> >implying I'm going to give space back
[15:53] <Quintasan> No way that's going to happen
[15:53] <Quintasan> I'm going to use it
[15:54] <yofel> yeah, extragear and playground have lots of stuff in it ^^
[15:54] <apachelogger> next on project neon prn_1_all.deb
[15:54] <Quintasan> +1
[15:54] <apachelogger> oh, that's what you meant
[15:54] <yofel> come to think of it, someone add muon to neon
[15:54] <apachelogger> works too I guess
[15:54] <apachelogger> though playground is a much more headache build source
[15:54] <apachelogger> *headachy
[15:54] <yofel> *shrug*
[15:54]  * apachelogger hungy :(
[15:55] <Quintasan> Who'd be insane enough to stuff prn in deb package?
[15:55] <yofel> if we already can't have qt5 builds we'll go with playround
[15:55] <yofel> Quintasan: why are you asking a rhetoric question?
[15:55] <apachelogger> xnox: does one still have to sign canonical's CA to commit to ubiquity?
[15:55] <Quintasan> yofel: It's not like we are both hiting at the same person, are we?
[15:55] <Quintasan> hinting*
[15:56] <apachelogger> well
[15:56] <apachelogger> as I pointed out earlier on g+, I could totally build a deb with prn without much effort
[15:56] <Quintasan> Of course it is doable
[15:56] <Quintasan> The question is, why would you do that
[15:56] <apachelogger> easy to install
[15:57] <Quintasan> Depends: mplayer?
[15:57] <apachelogger> ewww
[15:57] <xnox> apachelogger: yes, as per http://www.canonical.com/contributors . And well "sign" is actually a web-form and push-button.
[15:57] <apachelogger> vlc ftw
[15:57] <Quintasan> >vlc
[15:57] <Quintasan> No thanks
[15:57] <Quintasan> Only once you fix mkv
[15:57] <Quintasan> actually
[15:57] <Quintasan> s/mplayer/mplayer2
[15:58] <apachelogger> mkv is working
[15:58] <xnox> apachelogger: you know, such that when installer installs crap by accident, you are not liable for it at all. canonical is.
[15:58] <apachelogger> perhaps the ubuntu build is broken again :P
[15:58] <Quintasan> apachelogger: 10bit encodes?
[15:58] <apachelogger> people always come into #videolan complaining about the broken ubuntu build ^^
[15:58] <apachelogger> Quintasan: *shrug*
[15:58] <apachelogger> xnox: oh, never looked at it that way ^^
[15:58]  * Quintasan thinks apachelogger should do something about that if he likes vlc so much
[15:59] <xnox> apachelogger: it's _the_ only reason why it's there. such that individual developers are never sued in court.
[16:00] <xnox> apachelogger: and if you run ubuntu and don't want to be sued, you buy ubuntu advantage, which gives/covers you from legal litigations. which is a service "around ubuntu".
[16:02] <yofel> xnox: why would you be sued for running ubuntu?
[16:03] <xnox> yofel: i wouldn't know. but if somebody thinks they can be sued, they can buy protection.
[16:04] <xnox> yofel: who knows what other people do...
[16:04] <yofel> true
[16:05] <xnox> yofel: I mean look at current lawsuits: apple vs android companies, it seems they sue each other with & without reason...
[16:07] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/605774/
[16:08] <apachelogger> I am not sure it improved
[16:08] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: gibe bsns cards designs pls
[16:09] <yofel> you guys have card designs?
[16:09] <apachelogger> if one were to run fancy world changes algorithm ideas over the kubuntu-devel list canonical would be free to use them in what ever way they want
[16:10] <xnox> apachelogger: it means patches on the mailing lists....
[16:10] <yofel> geh, sofware-properties falls under the CA as well :/
[16:11] <xnox> apachelogger: and kubuntu-devel mailing lists are not part of the contributor projects.
[16:11] <xnox> apachelogger: so wtf dude =)
[16:11] <apachelogger> xnox: it says any work of authorship and it says submitted by any form to canonical or someone acting on behalf of canonical
[16:12] <apachelogger> any work of authorship includes a mail in which I explain an algorithm solving some NP stuff, and I am reasonable certain kubuntu-devel is run by someone acting on behalf ov canonical
[16:13] <xnox> apachelogger: please read the definition of "Material" and specifically that "submissions" are to the purpose of importing "material"
[16:13] <yofel> well, as I understand it "on behalf of canonical" could just be someone reading the ML as well
[16:13] <xnox> s/importing/improving/
[16:13] <kubotu> xnox meant: "apachelogger: please read the definition of "Material" and specifically that "submissions" are to the purpose of improving "material""
[16:14] <xnox> and the agreement covers the software projects only as listed on the contributors page....
[16:15] <apachelogger> where does it say that?
[16:15] <apachelogger> i.e. I know that it used to say that, I cannot find it in the present version
[16:16] <xnox> read carefully and the full thing, and please do not post snippets without full context and spread fud.
[16:20] <apachelogger> xnox: it does not say this is limited to the contributors page
[16:21] <xnox> apachelogger: preable of the pdf second paragraph, last sentence + http://www.canonical.com/contributors list of projects that are covered by the contirbutor agreement.
[16:21] <xnox> it's a many projects -> to one agreement text, but you establish it for individual "material" or multiples of thereof.
[16:22] <xnox> kubuntu, nor kubuntu-devel is not included.
[16:22] <xnox> s/is/are/
[16:22] <kubotu> xnox meant: "kubuntu, nor kubuntu-devel are not included."
[16:22]  * xnox is not a lawyer and not giving any advice.
[16:23] <apachelogger> "The Agreement may cover more than one software project managed by Us."
[16:23] <apachelogger> xnox: yes, it does not outline which those are and what point of time
[16:24] <apachelogger> oh my , language broken, I think I need something to eat
[16:25] <apachelogger> *and at what point in time
[20:17] <Tygart> I am on 13.04... Where would I submit a bug or if it has already been submitted? 
[20:17] <Tygart> In (Application>Help) 
[20:17] <Tygart> KinfoCenter> Glossary> Alphabetically, it is not in Alphabetical order? 
[20:17] <Riddell> Tygart: sounds like upstream go to bugs.kde.org
[20:18] <Tygart> Upstream? 
[20:18] <Tygart> I will go there. Thanks? 
[20:21] <Riddell> upstream means the original authors, we're the packagers and integrators
[20:38] <Tygart> Riddell: Ok I see. So you don't you also do any editing to the code? 
[21:11] <Riddell> Tygart: as little as possible
[21:34] <ScottK> yofel: OK.  Thanks.
[21:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's a wiki page.  Please go ahead and fix.
[21:47] <shadeslayer> ScottK: I'll be uploading KDevelop to quantal-proposed in a couple of minutes, please accept
[21:55] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what's the SRU bug?
[21:55] <shadeslayer> bug 1067611
[21:59] <Riddell> OK: kdevplatform
[22:01] <shadeslayer> Riddell: all done :)
[22:02] <Riddell>  kdevelop-php-docs too?
[22:02] <shadeslayer> yah
[22:02] <Riddell> I'll go and brush my teeth while I wait for launchpad to make the diffs
[22:03] <shadeslayer> heh okay :D
[22:09] <Riddell> accepted
[22:09] <shadeslayer> \o/
[23:16] <shadeslayer> Riddell: could you also sponsor yakuake? I don't think I have upload rights for that
[23:33] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1061073] Desktop effects are slow and desktop corruption using mesa 9 @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1061073 (by Stefan Freyr)