[12:15] <hazmat> g'morning
[12:40] <mattuk1972> g'day
[13:29] <bac> hi gary_poster 
[13:30] <gary_poster> hey bac
[13:30] <bac> gary_poster, got a second to g+?
[13:30] <gary_poster> sure bac
[13:32] <bac> gary_poster, invited
[13:41] <gary_poster> tveronezi, fwiw filed bug 1078722 and bug 1078723 per discussion with bac.
[13:41] <_mup_> Bug #1078722: "make debug" should not minimize third party javascript <juju-ui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078722 >
[13:41] <_mup_> Bug #1078723: changes to third party files and bin/merge-files do not cause regeneration of combined files <juju-ui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078723 >
[13:42] <tveronezi> gary_poster: ok
[13:45] <tveronezi> gary_poster: I am curious to know why do we need to change third-party files.
[13:46] <gary_poster> tveronezi, two reasons.  First is that we are the author of some of them (like the svg package).  Second is that we may need to be the maintainer of some of them (bac is trying to fix a YUI ellipsis package that last worked in YUI 3.3)
[13:55] <gary_poster> tveronezi, also fwiw stepping through them means we don't want them minimized
[14:03] <benji> grr, my networking continues to flake out on occasion, some twisted app crashes on login, and my key bindings keep getting forgotten
[14:07] <teknico> sounds familiar :-)
[14:08] <teknico> benji, good morning, would you still be available for some pairing? sorry for the on and off, I'm not doing this right
[14:09] <benji> teknico: umm, sure; I am working on my own card now, but if you're stuck I would certainly help
[14:11] <teknico> benji, great, thanks, hangout at emily's?
[14:11] <benji> teknico: sure
[14:31] <benji> gary_poster: do you have a second?
[14:31] <benji> Emily would like to talk to you: https://tinyurl.com/see-emily-code
[14:32] <gary_poster> :-) coming
[15:01] <frankban> Emily tries... but misunderstands, ah ooh
[15:01] <gary_poster> heh
[15:04] <gary_poster> spotify in US has virtually no pink floyd :-/
[15:04] <gary_poster> no beatles either but I already knew/expected that
[15:06] <gary_poster> tveronezi, I think Makyo mentioned that he thought that the aggregated files should be served from juju-ui/assets/ in order to support integration in other environments.  I think he is right.  This is another example of where the increasing intelligence of the server script is biting us.  We intend to serve things from a static file
[15:07] <tveronezi> gary_poster: this is fixed by another branch.
[15:07] <gary_poster> ah, excellent tveronezi 
[15:07] <gary_poster> I think I'm inclined to raise that as a bigger problem, fwiw: we should make the server as much like serving static files as humanly possible if that is really our gioal
[15:07] <gary_poster> goal
[15:08] <gary_poster> I will make a weekly card
[15:21] <gary_poster> tveronezi, why do you include files like svg-layouts.js in all-third-min.js but exclude them from all-third.js, to be loaded via modules.js?
[15:21] <frankban> mattuk1972: re growl notifications, in the case of multiple notifications, do we want new ones on top or on bottom?
[15:21] <gary_poster> I mean, I guess that is good...
[15:21] <gary_poster> But it seems inconsistent
[15:21] <gary_poster> and therefore prone to surprising problems
[15:22] <gary_poster> (it surprised me--I had to dig to find what was going on)
[15:23] <mattuk1972> frankban, i would say top is newest
[15:23] <frankban> mattuk1972: cool, thanks
[15:23] <gary_poster> tveronezi, ISTM we should either always have them in "app" (via modules or minimized in all-app.js)
[15:23] <gary_poster> or have them always in third party
[15:25]  * tveronezi back.
[15:26] <tveronezi> gary_poster: yes... they are loaded by the modules.js
[15:26] <gary_poster> Was just making those comments in review, but faster in IRC
[15:26] <gary_poster> yeah, I know
[15:26] <gary_poster> the question is about consistency
[15:26] <gary_poster> in debug mode, they are effectively part of the app
[15:26] <gary_poster> and in production they are part of third party
[15:27] <gary_poster> I think they should be consistently one or the other
[15:27] <gary_poster> I can see arguments for either direction
[15:27] <gary_poster> But consistency and least surprise is what I am looking for
[15:28] <tveronezi> it depends how we want to debug those files. Do we want to debug then in a single big file or in multiple smaller ones, like yui modules.
[15:29] <gary_poster> smaller is nicer
[15:29] <gary_poster> but then what does "third party" mean?
[15:29] <tveronezi> third-party means, "third-party non yui module."
[15:31] <gary_poster> To call a spade a spade, a simpler name for that is "d3"?
[15:31] <gary_poster> if we ever have another we can revisit?
[15:31] <gary_poster> that might mean we could be more automated in what we do in marge-files
[15:31] <gary_poster> merge
[15:32] <gary_poster> yui should contain yui from npm
[15:32] <gary_poster> d3 should contain d3 from npm
[15:33] <gary_poster> app files should contain all other js in app.  Possible spelling:
[15:35] <tveronezi> gary_poster: I didnt get the idea. Why to change the import from all-third.js to d3.v2.js now to change it back to all-third.js when we add another library? We could simply add the new library to the merge-files script.
[15:37] <gary_poster> $ bzr ls -R app/ | grep -E '\.js$' | grep -vE -e '\Wd3\W' -e '\Wmodules\W'
[15:37] <gary_poster> that excludes the compiled handlebars output; would have to be added manually
[15:39] <gary_poster> Maybe better 
[15:39] <gary_poster> $ bzr ls -k file -R app/ | grep -E '\.js$' | grep -vE -e '\Wmodules\W'
[15:39] <gary_poster> includes d3-components, which I guess is correct?
[15:39] <gary_poster> that's what we are doing now
[15:40] <gary_poster> tveronezi, let's hang out
[15:40] <gary_poster> juju-ui
[15:58] <gary_poster> bac bcsaller benji frankban hazmat jovan2 Makyo mattuk1972 teknico tveronezi call in 2
[16:00] <mattuk1972> thanks gary_poster but i have to run out of the office early today - jovan2 let me know anything that comes up?
[16:00] <gary_poster> cool mattuk1972 
[16:26] <benji> teknico: I am going to take a short break and then we'll talk to Emily about what we should do next.
[16:27] <teknico> benji, ok
[17:04] <frankban> gary_poster: do you have a min?
[17:05] <gary_poster> frankban, I will in maybe 5? 10 max?
[17:05] <gary_poster> is that ok?
[17:05] <frankban> gary_poster: sure
[17:05] <gary_poster> thanks
[17:16] <gary_poster> frankban, juju-ui?
[17:16] <gary_poster> 11 minutes :-P
[17:16] <frankban> gary_poster: joining
[17:49] <gary_poster> bac, you around?
[17:52] <bac> yep
[17:52] <bac> gary_poster: ^
[17:53] <gary_poster> bac, thanks.  quick juju-ui call?
[17:53]  * tveronezi lunch time.
[17:53] <bac> gary_poster: ok
[17:54] <gary_poster> thx
[17:54] <bac> gary_poster: in the normal spot
[17:54] <gary_poster> bac, yes
[18:08] <gary_poster> benji, you around?
[18:08] <benji> gary_poster: yep
[18:08] <gary_poster> you probably need to get lunch, benji?
[18:09] <benji> gary_poster: no rush
[18:09] <gary_poster> benji, if you are not on a call and don't feel a lunch rush, I'd like to run something past you in juju-ui
[18:10] <benji> gary_poster: I'll be there in a sec
[18:10] <gary_poster> thx
[18:11] <gary_poster> bcsaller, do you think that bug 1078827 that I just filed is more a UX issue or more a technical issue?
[18:12] <_mup_> Bug #1078827: You can never mark a notification as seen <juju-ui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078827 >
[18:12] <gary_poster> "As far as Francesco and I can tell, there is no longer any way to mark a notification as seen. It would be nice to be able to make them go away."
[18:13] <bcsaller> gary_poster: UX, there is a method to control that, I think we don't bind it per an old discussion with Kapil. I think clicking them on the view all page highlights them but doesn't remove them, it would just be different handler code or adding an explicit delete button which would remove the model and it would work
[18:15] <gary_poster> ack thanks bcsaller, I'll bring it up with jovan
[18:23]  * tveronezi back
[18:41] <bac> gary_poster: swap day added to canonicaladmin for your approving pleasure
[18:42] <gary_poster> thx approved bac
[18:46] <gary_poster> tveronezi, hey.  I plan to write up what we talked about so we have it in writing and agree on it.  I'll make a card and all that.  I'll do it after lunch
[18:47] <tveronezi> gary_poster: ok tkx.
[18:55] <bac> tveronezi: 2nd approve for your 'make debug' card.  thanks.
[18:56] <tveronezi> thanks bac.
[20:04] <bac> benji: what's the status of your and nicola's branch in review?  is it really up for review?
[20:05] <benji> bac: I'm trying to get it up for review now.  If you're interested in reviewing it, I will let you know when I succeed.
[20:05]  * tveronezi brb 15 mins
[20:05] <bac> benji: please do.  i'm waiting on reviews for my branch (hint, hint) so i'd be happy to look
[20:05] <benji> :)
[20:07] <bac> thanks Makyo
[20:14] <Makyo> Cheers.
[20:19]  * tveronezi back.
[20:29]  * bac dog walk before the rain
[20:58] <gary_poster> tveronezi, please review https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1078898 and give me feedback.  I'm going to file related follow-on bugs meanwhile
[20:59] <_mup_> Bug #1078898: Makefile does not support static file deployment <juju-ui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078898 >
[20:59] <tveronezi> ok.
[21:04] <benji> bac: I finally figured it out: https://codereview.appspot.com/6850052
[21:28] <gary_poster> tveronezi, what did you think?
[21:28] <gary_poster> benji, any thoughts on my last para of https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1078910 ?
[21:28] <_mup_> Bug #1078910: development server is unnecessarily complicated and different from production delivery <juju-ui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078910 >
[21:28] <benji> looking
[21:28] <gary_poster> thx
[21:30] <tveronezi> gary_poster: looks good... the only problem i see is the css stuff... check the solution I had for my current review... https://codereview.appspot.com/6853044/diff/9001/lib/server.js  
[21:31] <tveronezi> gary_poster: I realize that this is not the best solution. Probably we will need to skip the css minification.
[21:32] <benji> gary_poster: right, we will have to start two processes if the watcher is seperate from the server; I would start each as daemons and add a "stop" make target that kills them
[21:32] <tveronezi> gary_poster: long story short, yui was not designed to be used this way. It is designed to use a combo loader.
[21:32] <gary_poster> tveronezi, I believe that :-)
[21:33] <tveronezi> gary_poster, that means that we need to have a smart server, or that we should use yui combo loader from the Internet.
[21:34] <gary_poster> benji ack, that sounds good.  I was trying to have the watcher be a daemon and the server stay in fg.  I'll update with your suggestion.  thank you
[21:34] <benji> my pleasure
[21:38] <gary_poster> tveronezi, I have an idea.  You available for hopefully :-) quick G+ in juju-ui?
[21:38] <tveronezi> ok...
[22:09]  * Makyo dogwalkinates.
[22:37]  * Makyo dedogwalkinates.