[00:14] <xnox> ali1234: 7 is the default in 12.10.
[00:41] <MaGeD_> Hello , noob question , anyone know an easy fix for this http://i.imgur.com/vepML.jpg  split into volumes option is grayed out
[00:41] <MaGeD_> 10.04
[00:44] <ali1234> no reason to use 7
[00:44] <ali1234> MaGeD_: choose a different archive type maybe? i don't think tar supports multivolume
[00:46] <MaGeD_> it works only with ( rar )
[00:46] <ali1234> well there you go then
[00:46] <ali1234> you can split the file by hand if you really need tar
[00:47] <MaGeD_> yeah but rar makes high cpu load
[00:47] <MaGeD_> found this
[00:47] <MaGeD_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/513244
[07:09] <dubac0> i cant move my curser even after rebooting
[07:58] <ali1234> fixed my samsung and put CM10/jelly bean on it
[07:58] <ali1234> i'm pretty pleased with how that turned out
[07:59] <ali1234> now i have to install all apps again
[08:00] <ali1234> and it only took 8 hours of messing around with flashing utilities
[08:06] <ali1234> ok, gmail, maps, streetview, plus, youtube, now, what else am i missing?
[08:07] <ali1234> haha, default alarms: 8:30 weekdays, 9:00 weekend
[08:08] <ali1234> 8:30 is a weird time to get up for work
[08:09] <ali1234> it's too late to make it for 9am start
[08:09] <ali1234> but too early that you could just sleep in
[08:09] <popey> not if you work from home :)
[08:10] <ali1234> true
[08:10] <ali1234> well, no
[08:10] <ali1234> not unless you shower and eat breakfast on company time
[08:11] <ali1234> if you roll out of bed and directly in front of the computer without doing either of those things, or even getting dressed, then maybe
[08:11] <ali1234> but people tell me i'm weird for doing that
[08:13] <theopensourcerer> morning everyone
[08:13] <AlanBell> morning
[08:13] <Myrtti> moin alans
[08:13] <theopensourcerer> \o Myrtti
[08:16] <popey> ali1234, i often check my email from bed before actually getting up
[08:16] <popey> grab phone/tablet and just skim the most recent stuff
[08:17] <theopensourcerer> me too. My SG Tab 10.1 lives by the side of my bed mostly.
[08:17] <ali1234> sometimes i answer the phone while i'm asleep and talk to the other person and then don't remember
[08:18] <Myrtti> ♥  Nexus
[08:18] <ali1234> i don't think i've ever sleep-emailed though
[08:18] <Myrtti> IRC from bed even now
[08:27] <popey> friend of mine reads magazines in her sleep
[08:30] <christel> GOOD MORNING PRETTIES
[08:30] <AlanBell> theopensourcerer: you have the same tablet as the Queen
[08:30] <theopensourcerer> orly
[08:30] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20314882
[08:31] <AlanBell> hers is full of rather dull videos though
[08:31] <theopensourcerer> Ah no. She has the latest model.
[08:31] <diplo> Morning all
[08:35] <ali1234> 150GB of videos in a "digital time capsule" on a tablet computer that will probably break within 5 years
[08:36] <AlanBell> I doubt it would get heavy usage
[08:36] <ali1234> doesn't matter
[08:36] <ali1234> the battery will be the first thing to go
[08:36] <AlanBell> as long as it doesn't grow tin whiskers it will be fine
[08:51] <Myrtti> uuer, N7 Android update to 4.2
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> my Galaxy Nexus has 4.2, it's great :)
[08:52] <Myrtti> not had that yet
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> did it manually
[08:54] <popey> the multi-user thing doesn't work the way I'd hoped
[08:54] <popey> user 1 installs stuff, user 2 can't see those apps
[08:54] <popey> so each user has their own sandboxed apps
[08:54] <popey> which is a waste of space
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> Xoom is no longer supported. Time for a new tablet ;)
[09:30] <jacobw> morning
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> howdy
[09:30] <jacobw> wie gehts?
[09:39] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: does anyone really say 'getwittert' or 'gefacebookt'?
[09:42] <danfish> morning
[09:42] <diplo> I don't know wtf you are on about so no :D
[09:43] <danfish> aces - amazon S3 now supports 'archiving' to amazon glacier
[09:59] <knightwise> morning everyone
[10:03] <czajkowski> popey: when you switch to your guest session does your wifi still work ?
[10:04]  * popey switches
[10:04] <popey> oh, 12.10?
[10:04] <popey> and how are you determining if it works or not?
[10:04] <czajkowski> I cant connect to lp
[10:05] <czajkowski> but can see the wifi thingy still connected
[10:05] <mungojerry> i would expect that guest mode would not remember password
[10:05] <popey> in the normal user go to the wireless icon and click "edit connection"
[10:05] <popey> and see if it's "available for all users"
[10:05] <mungojerry> does that even work for an unauthenticated user?
[10:05] <popey> guest doesn't need to remember passwords for wifi
[10:05] <czajkowski> popey: yup tis ticked
[10:05] <popey> if the main user has already connected
[10:06] <czajkowski> popey: main is connected and it's available to all users
[10:06] <czajkowski> bugger
[10:06] <popey> czajkowski, ticked in wireless -> the wifi connection you're currently using
[10:06] <czajkowski> yup
[10:06] <popey> so you're logged on as you, then you switch to guest?
[10:11] <czajkowski> yup
[10:11] <czajkowski> and then wifi just wouldnt work
[10:11] <czajkowski> so switched to cabel
[10:11] <czajkowski> *cable
[10:32] <Myrtti> where's my USB stick, going to probably downgrade today
[10:33] <lornajane> Myrtti: what are you downgrading?
[10:33] <Myrtti> my laptop from 12.10 to 12.04
[10:34] <Myrtti> Online accounts are flaking out and so Empathy doesn't automatically log itself in for some reason, and the Unity Webapps addons crash and don't work
[10:34] <lornajane> Myrtti: I wondered what wasn't working for you ... I'm just about to upgrade in the opposite direction!
[10:35]  * popey is on 12.04 on his laptop
[10:35] <popey> 12.10 on the desktop
[10:36] <lornajane> I'm home for a few weeks so time for the 12.10 upgrade - this is basically my only machine though, which is why it has to wait for a gap in work committments
[10:36] <lornajane> I am an XFCE girl so I don't see the same gui changes as others do ... in fact right now I'm running chrome, skype, and five terminals.  So it doesn't really matter what X does
[10:38] <Myrtti> yeah I suppose going back to Xubuntu would be an option too
[10:41] <lornajane> I just don't use any window manager features other than having somewhere to put the windows
[10:42] <knightwise> Xubuntu keeps on surprising me
[10:42] <knightwise> it has matured very nicely i think
[10:44] <popey> I hear Lubuntu is nice and lean/fast
[10:44] <lornajane> I tried mint with LXDE and just couldn't get enough things configured the way I wanted them
[10:45] <lornajane> so this is kind of XFCE on top of that
[10:46] <popey> ahh
[10:47] <lornajane> I still have some major omissions but nothing that I really can't live with
[10:47] <knightwise> popey: i tried lubuntu on the old G4 imac
[10:48] <knightwise> it was pretty spiffy
[10:49] <mungojerry> i'm on lxde at the mo
[10:49] <mungojerry> with xcompmgr so i can use a dick
[10:49] <mungojerry> dock
[10:49] <mungojerry> DOCK!
[10:50] <czajkowski> mungojerry: go have a cuppa
[10:51] <mungojerry> cuppa ribena
[10:58] <ali1234> 12.10 is pretty good as long as you don't attempt to use unity
[10:58] <ali1234> so pretty much the same as the last few releases really
[11:04] <selinium> morning all o/
[11:12] <AlanBell> davmor2: popey: czajkowski: other canonipeeps: what is the plan for tomorrow evening?
[11:13] <zleap> what is the crash handler program called ?
[11:13] <AlanBell> whoopsie
[11:13] <davmor2> AlanBell: I have no idea, food, pub I guess
[11:13] <selinium> AlanBell, Tomorrow evening?
[11:13] <zleap> is that the one that comes up with a report when a program crashes
[11:13] <AlanBell> time? general area of London?
[11:13] <popey> no
[11:14] <popey> apport
[11:14] <zleap> ah thanks
[11:14] <davmor2> AlanBell: I got no idea what is around here
[11:14] <popey> apport is the popup, technically apport-gtk, not whoopsie
[11:14] <popey> AlanBell, depends if I can get in, plumber coming back tomorrow
[11:14] <zleap> i am going to file a bug report against it to see if they can make a few enhancements
[11:15] <popey> zleap, such as?
[11:17] <davmor2> AlanBell: I'm happy to go where you popey czajkowski recommend
[11:18] <davmor2> AlanBell: mostly cause czajkowski is trying to be nice to me
[11:18] <czajkowski> I've the CC meeting tmorrow
[11:18] <czajkowski> plus MRI results tomorrow so need to work around my hours
[11:19] <zleap> popey,  1.  when it is compiling the report it the graphic thing going roundf,  perhaps if it said "compiling report, please wait"  users would know what its doing,  2,  with send report clicked ,  if you ten click relaunch,  you get no indication thsat its sending someting
[11:19] <AlanBell> davmor2: it won't last
[11:19] <zleap> popey, looking at the bugs page I am suggesting this on brainstorm as per instructions
[11:19] <popey> zleap, the sending happens in the background
[11:20] <zleap> maybe some sort of indication its doing that would be helpful
[11:20] <popey> so it doesn't make sense to tell you its sending because it might not actually be sending it
[11:20] <popey> it does it later when there's a decent network connection
[11:20] <zleap> ok
[11:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: that doesn't mean you can't recommend somewhere to eat though :P
[11:20] <zleap> what about the first point then
[11:21] <popey> that only appears for people who show details doesn't it?
[11:21] <davmor2> selinium: I'm down from Wolverhampton for a sprint in London so Thursday was the best day for us to get together and finally met up properly
[11:21] <zleap> not sure,  i tried to log back in so skype would crash and bring it up,  but it didn't
[11:21] <zleap> it seemed to be there anyway while compiling the report
[11:21] <popey> yeah, you only get details and the spinny if you ask for it
[11:21] <zleap> ah
[11:22] <selinium> davmor2, Ah.. thought I had missed some memo... :)
[11:23] <czajkowski> davmor2: I only ever go to katzenjammers borough market  close to trains and here
[11:24] <zleap> i will have a look next time i get a crash
[11:32] <Myrtti> Is there a difference in speed or performance between Virtualbox or kvm?
[11:34] <popey> i use virtualbox because it has 3d acceleration, which kvm doesn't
[11:35] <popey> but I think other than that they're comparable
[11:36] <directhex> cpu performance should be identical, since they're both using CPU extensions on modern processors to provide direct-to-cpu computation, not emulating a cpu
[11:37] <Daviey> i'd like to see a benchmark
[11:38] <davmor2> Myrtti: it depends what you need, lxc is good if you need something light, kvm is good if you don't need 3d, virtualbox is great if you need the extra gfx grunt
[11:38] <Myrtti> passing the information to the party interested
[12:02]  * popey scratches Uganda off his "must visit" list
[12:02] <popey> http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/uganda-officially-pass-%E2%80%98kill-gays%E2%80%99-bill121112
[12:02] <popey> *boggle*
[12:05] <mungojerry> wonder why popey is reading that website
[12:05] <ali1234> i think whoever wrote the crash details thing should be made to write a 500 word essay explaining why it is so slow, and that should be displayed in place of the spinner.
[12:07] <AlanBell> mungojerry: it is causing outrage across various forms of social media (rightly so)
[12:11] <mungojerry> i didn't click the link
[12:11] <mungojerry> but the url seems to tell a story
[13:03] <directhex> oops. http://i.imgur.com/yeVUZ.png
[13:09] <diplo> :D
[13:09] <diplo> need m0ar bandwith!!!111!!1!
[13:16] <dwatkins> popey: yeah, I couldn't believe they passed it either.
[13:16] <jacobw> precise shutdowns on laptop each time i remove the AC in
[13:27] <mungojerry> wow ARM shares are on a huge march at the mo
[13:27] <AlanBell> directhex: is that steam?
[13:28] <popey> AlanBell, it is
[13:28]  * popey bought a game at lunchtime in steam, on linux, and played it
[13:28] <popey> win
[13:29] <AlanBell> ok, so it has a blog thing in it then
[13:29] <mungojerry> Apple engineers are "confident" that the custom-designed ARM-based chips which now run the iPhone and iPad will one day be powerful enough to run Mac laptop and desktop computers, Bloomberg reported after talking to three people in the know who wish to remain anonymous.
[13:29] <AlanBell> does it have a support forum type of area?
[13:29] <ali1234> it has eveerything in it
[13:29] <popey> each game can publish news
[13:29] <popey> yes AlanBell
[13:29] <AlanBell> I didn't know it was a communications thing as well as a store
[13:29] <ali1234> it's like everything else these days
[13:29] <popey> it has forums
[13:29] <ali1234> it's a combined social network, IM client, and app store
[13:30] <AlanBell> right, so people wanting support with games should talk to each other in the steam client
[13:30] <knightwise> mungojerry: well it COULD be true someday
[13:30] <popey> thats the usual place people go
[13:30] <popey> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/
[13:30] <knightwise> they had PPC before they came to intell , who says they just wont pack up and leave again ?
[13:30] <knightwise> Apple is seldom known for its backward compatiility
[13:30] <popey> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1414  for example for the game I just bought
[13:31] <AlanBell> popey: the question arose as to whether we support steam in #ubuntu or not
[13:31] <popey> yup, and the "best" place is in their forums
[13:32] <ali1234>  agree
[13:32] <AlanBell> !steam
[13:33] <AlanBell> so that is a bit out of date now, right?
[13:33] <popey> yes
[13:33] <popey> the close (hah) beta has started
[13:33] <ali1234> if you want companies to actually spend money supporting linux the best way to do it is totally flood their support channels with linux noobs
[13:33] <ali1234> i'm totally serious btw
[13:33] <AlanBell> ali1234: excellent point
[13:33] <popey> my sarcasm detector was twitching a touch tbh
[13:33] <AlanBell> no, I completely get the point
[13:34] <ali1234> i really mean it
[13:34] <BigRedS> I keep hearing of people speaking of trying Ubuntu in order to look at the steam beta. That sounds like something that'll end well
[13:37] <popey> i see arch and now majero (or whatever it's called today) have steam repackaged in their repos
[13:38] <ali1234> seems reasonable
[13:38] <popey> yeah
[13:38] <ali1234> there's no good reason for it not to work
[13:38] <popey> glad they have
[13:39] <ali1234> the fragmentation argument is stupid
[13:39] <popey> how long before someone makes an steam remix which boots directly into steam
[13:39] <ali1234> you only have to look at the PC vs mac vs amiga vs atari market from ... whenever
[13:39] <ali1234> which of those is was most "fragmented"? and which one won?
[13:39] <BigRedS> popey: I've been wanting that for Windows for years
[13:40] <knightwise> steam is going to be the ember of the fire of change
[13:40] <popey> we're hoping to get some performance improvements in unity & compiz in the next 12.04 SRU
[13:40] <knightwise> just watch
[13:40] <ali1234> nah, that's android
[13:40] <ali1234> the platform is already burning... and it isn't nokia
[13:42] <BigRedS> Is getting into this beta idiot-proof? It's still not *that* hard to reboot, but I'd rather not
[13:42] <ali1234> BigRedS: it used to be rather trivial to set a shell registry key to run whatever.exe instead of explorer.exe and get a single program running fullscreen on login
[13:42] <ali1234> i've not tried that since NT4 though
[13:43] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, I stopped going anywhere near the registry the moment they stopped paying me to
[13:43] <AlanBell> popey: steam could be a desktop environment selected at the login screen presumably
[13:43] <bashrc> The Windows registry was a hellhole
[13:43] <popey> yes, omg posted an article about it today
[13:43] <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/how-to-login-to-steam-big-picture-mode-in-ubuntu
[13:44] <AlanBell> oh, right :)
[13:44] <ali1234> that's pretty cool
[13:44] <bashrc> heh, that's is the menu doesn't go off the bottom of the screen :-)
[13:45] <czajkowski> one for the cat people on here http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/917888-father-gets-cute-kids-new-pet-after-facebook-cat-bet-backfires
[13:46] <ali1234> he should get 117 cats
[13:46] <directhex> popey, there's a common misconception on "steam for arch" or "steam for fedora"
[13:47] <directhex> what they mean is /usr/bin/steam repackaged for their distros. /usr/bin/steam is a totally barebones downloader, which downloads the actual Steam client to ~/Steam. the actual steam client only has one build right now (with support for more in steam.sh): ubuntu12_32
[13:47] <selinuxium> Suffering from a brain block... What is the server app that gives you a list of services to install?
[13:47] <directhex> doesn't help e.g. the lack of glibc 2.15 in debian (no steam)
[13:48] <popey> true...
[13:49] <directhex> there is only one trustworthy source of info on which games actually work, btw - mine :p
[13:49] <BigRedS> selinuxium: tasksel?
[13:49] <ali1234> so what AAA games work yet?
[13:50] <ali1234> (that aren't already on software center)
[13:50] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Cheer  :)
[13:51] <ali1234> and what is to stop debian packaging a sandboxed glibc 2.15 just for the purpose of running steam?
[13:52] <BigRedS> debian itself?
[13:52] <ali1234> well, whoever wants to do it really
[13:52] <BigRedS> selinuxium: haha, I didn't realise anybody still used it :)
[13:52] <czajkowski> directhex: oh if I could just point you at people who dont know the facts but talk about them like they do, my twitter stream would be quieter :)
[13:53] <popey> czajkowski, just link to this http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p
[13:53] <popey> directhex, i still see dustforce, cave story+ and rochard in my steam
[13:53] <czajkowski> ahhh
[13:53] <directhex> ali1234, AAA refers to advertising budget, of course :)
[13:54] <czajkowski> never really look at reddit, but have had this conversation already with directhex and aquarius
[13:54] <ali1234> yes, ie "ones i might have heard of"
[13:54] <directhex> ali1234, but the closest to that description is Serious Sam 3, which had a high development budget
[13:54] <directhex> although short of AAA
[13:54] <ali1234> i didn't even know they made a 2
[13:54] <directhex> popey, probably related to the "FONV for Linux!" bug
[13:54] <popey> the what?
[13:54] <xnox> directhex: what's the "biggest" working title?
[13:54]  * xnox has not played any games for about 7 years now & i'd like to be impressed.
[13:55] <directhex> popey, the http://i.imgur.com/yeVUZ.png one
[13:55] <directhex> popey, library is a bit screwy since latest beta. new games added, some missing, makes no sense
[13:55] <popey> gotcha
[13:55] <popey> 20k/s :)
[13:55] <ali1234> xnox: probably psychonauts?
[13:55] <directhex> xnox, that you can get with beta bypass? SS3. real beta members have team fortress 2
[13:56] <popey> TF2 is taking an age to download
[13:56] <directhex> ali1234, has a library entry, but is not actually available for download right now (doesn't grab any files)
[13:56] <directhex> ali1234, may be in closed beta
[13:56] <directhex> games may be in their own betas, standalone from the steam beta itself
[13:56] <directhex> you can change beta enrollment via the Betas tab in a game's Properties
[13:57] <directhex> (may require a per-game passphrase)
[13:57] <ali1234> meeeeeeh
[13:57] <directhex> popey, it says 20k because i didn't tell it i had a fast connection (it assumes 56k by default, and the speed is a param you set at install time on windows)
[13:57] <popey> heh
[13:57] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Why not use it? :) i normally use cli but sometimes I like to use it if I am doing several servers at the same time so they are in sync..
[13:57] <directhex> ali1234, it's as if you haven't read http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p !
[13:58] <selinuxium> BigRedS, Should arrange a beer soon... :)
[13:58] <selinuxium> AlanBell, Is there anything in the pipeline for an xmas meet?
[14:00] <AlanBell> yes, kind of
[14:00] <BigRedS> selinuxium: I've packages with the right dependencies 'cause tasksel's never *quite* right
[14:00] <BigRedS> ah yeah - just spoke to work and they're letting me move to London :)
[14:01] <popey> is that good?
[14:01] <BigRedS> I reckon it is
[14:02] <BigRedS> I've lived out of it for 2.5 years now, and still the longest time I've spent continuously not in London is four weeks, and that was eight years ago
[14:03] <selinuxium> BigRedS, great stuff! :)
[14:03] <bashrc> In London everything is expensive
[14:03]  * dwatkins agrees with bashrc 
[14:04] <selinuxium> AlanBell, Kind of... Mysterious.. :)
[14:06] <BigRedS> yeah, but I think it's also better :)
[14:06] <BigRedS> admittedly, I am only comparing it to Darkest Cambridgeshire
[14:11] <directhex> why does ubuntu.com still recommend i386?
[14:11] <directhex> there are no processors on the market today that run ubuntu i386 but not ubuntu amd64
[14:11] <directhex> the only "active" product that can't is AMD Geode, which won't run i386 due to compiler flags
[14:13] <directhex> oh, no, i'm told the kernel emulates the missing instructions
[14:15] <BigRedS> I keep wondering that
[14:15] <BigRedS> Oh, wait, it's 686 I don't get
[14:16] <BigRedS> does Ubuntu have a 386, or are you doing what I do and equating all of them? :)
[14:16] <directhex> well, "i386" is the name of the arch in dpkg
[14:16] <BigRedS> Either way, I was surprised when the woman from Unity said that it worked on both 32 and 64 bit machines. I wondered why you'd bother with the former.
[14:16] <directhex> partly because changing i386 to i686 is hellishly hard in dpkg
[14:16] <ali1234> ubuntu wont' run even on 486
[14:17] <ali1234> and any "arch" above 486 is meaningless anyway
[14:17] <directhex> fine.
[14:17] <ali1234> there is no such thing as a standard i686 processor
[14:17] <directhex> ubuntu's apps are all built with compiler flags which means that instructions introduced with Pentium Pro may be emitted, those instructions are not found on amd geode, via c3, and a handful of others
[14:18] <directhex> ubuntu's kernels are built to emulate the missing instructions if needed
[14:19] <ali1234> the geode is of course considerably older than the newest CPUs that don't do 64 bit
[14:19] <Laney> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel/35163
[14:19] <directhex> the newest non-64-bit CPUs i can find are a subset of atoms from 2010
[14:20] <directhex> some 2010 atoms, and all 2011+ atoms, are 64-bit
[14:20] <directhex> all non-geode amd chips have been 64-bit for nearly a decade
[14:20] <BigRedS> is that 32-bit kernels or 32-bit hardware, though?
[14:21] <BigRedS> if everyone is told to use the 386 image, then it'll look like a lot of people are on 386s
[14:21] <ali1234> yeah so basically you're advocating dropping support for anything older than 3 years
[14:21] <directhex> "anything" is a massive exaggeration
[14:21] <BigRedS> for some things older than 3 years
[14:21] <directhex> "some netbooks" is more true
[14:21] <ali1234> why draw the line at CPUs?
[14:22] <ali1234> let's drop all drivers from the kernel for hardware over 3 years old
[14:22] <ali1234> sure would speed up builds
[14:22] <bashrc> That would rule out just about all of my hardware
[14:23] <BigRedS> I wasn't advocating dropping support for it
[14:24] <directhex> the last 32-bit desktop or laptop chip from Intel was in 2006, with Core 1 solo/duo
[14:24] <BigRedS> I just don't get why it'd be a feature. Especially since most people who play games would do so on non-esoteric hardware and, as such, by now probably have an amd64 chip
[14:24] <ali1234> released in 2006
[14:24] <BigRedS> But I don't really play games either, so it might just be me missing the point.
[14:24] <ali1234> so probably still available to buy in 2008
[14:24] <ali1234> and still shipping in OEM hardware in 2009
[14:25] <directhex> they started normalizing on 64-bit in 2005
[14:26] <ali1234> anyway that ML post explains rather well why 32 bit is still recommended
[14:27] <ali1234> if you need to ask that question then 32 bit is the safest answer
[14:27] <bashrc> my laptop and netbook are both 32bit
[14:28] <Laney> hardware
[14:28] <BigRedS> ah, cool :)
[14:29] <directhex> apparently Ubuntu Friendly is full of people using netbooks
[14:29] <ali1234> well yeah
[14:30] <ali1234> ubuntu is, after all, designed for netbooks
[14:30] <popey> s/netbooks/tablets/
[14:30] <ali1234> unity used to be called netbook remix
[14:30] <popey> http://unity3d.com/promo/unity4/
[14:31] <popey> no, unity used to be called netbook launcher
[14:31] <popey> netbook remix contained netbook launcher
[14:32] <ali1234> i've not seen any serious effort to make unity work on tablets yet... handing out tablets to developers doesn't count
[14:32] <ali1234> coming up with a sensible design for how it could work would be a start
[14:32] <czajkowski> ali1234: are you ever really happy with the work Ubuntu is doing to be fair?
[14:33] <ali1234> czajkowski: i was until about 2011
[14:33] <popey> yeah, I was kidding about tablets
[14:33] <ali1234> since then it's just getting worse every day
[14:33] <popey> its what everyone says about unity
[14:34] <ali1234> yeah those people obviously never used a tablet *or* unity
[14:34] <directhex> i liked netbook launcher
[14:34] <directhex> imho it got worse with every release
[14:34] <ali1234> "and now here we are"
[14:35] <popey> Dynamite Jack is quite fun
[14:35] <ali1234> is it like bomb jack?
[14:35] <popey> no
[14:35]  * popey also likes bomb jack
[14:36] <ali1234> lol. it's bomberman meets metal gear solid
[14:37] <ali1234> looks good
[14:39] <popey> yes, thats an accurate description
[14:39] <popey> makes me jump in the same way that MGS used to when they spot you
[14:40] <popey> holy cow TF2 is 12GB!
[14:40] <popey> yay 2nd SSD :)
[14:41] <gord> tf2 is a game from years ago + like 4 years of new game being added to it
[14:41] <gord> they had an awesome halloween event recently
[14:41] <directhex> yeah, what gord said
[14:41] <directhex> it was around 7G when it shipped, iirc
[14:41] <popey> TF2 aint gonna work on my x220 with i7 is it :)
[14:42] <directhex> also, the size of TF2 is related to the shared assets.
[14:42] <gord> works fine on the x220
[14:42] <gord> the x220 has a fairly good gpu
[14:42] <gord> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=105849181
[14:42] <directhex> there are a bunch of multi-gig bundles of textures etc which are shared across all valve games
[14:42] <gord> it was a fun event
[14:44] <ali1234> popey: 11GB of hats, 1GB of game
[14:45] <popey> :)
[14:59] <Gargoyle> Am I understanding correctly, that if a sources.list file has .somethingelse on the end then it is disabled? (in this case .distUpgrade)
[15:08] <jacobw> Gargoyle: yes
[15:20] <BigRedS> popey: tf2 worksish on my X201 in windows
[15:21] <BigRedS> with a paltry i5 :(
[15:21] <popey> ooh, finished downloading
[15:36] <Azelphur> Is there a decent way for us UK people to do NFC payments on android yet
[15:36] <gord> i thought google wallet can use any credit card now
[15:36] <Gargoyle> Azelphur: Glue your nfc enabled card to the back of your phone?
[15:37] <Azelphur> Gargoyle: haha :p
[15:37] <gord> its just that there is no where that actually supports nfc
[15:37] <Azelphur> gord: dunno, I don't think you can even sign up for it
[15:37] <Azelphur> gord: all the post offices around here and mcdonalds support it, I'm a frequent flier at both places xD
[15:38] <AlanBell> selinuxium: we have an IRC meeting at 20:00 this evening
[15:38] <Gargoyle> Azelphur: Are you posting cheeseburgers to people? ;)
[15:38] <Azelphur> Gargoyle: totally! :P
[15:38] <Gargoyle> I must PM you my address then. There's nothing better than a cold cheeseburger in the post! ;)
[15:40] <Azelphur> gord: it looks like they changed google checkout into google wallet, I still can't get the app without some sneaky stuff, maybe I'll get the app and see what happens
[15:48] <neuro> hey all, jono is now a dad, make sure to pass on your congrats! https://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/268740372891582464
[15:49] <BigRedS> but he did the easy bit
[15:50] <neuro> i'd rather not think about that! :)
[15:51] <BigRedS> haha
[16:04] <theopensourcerer> popey: "Luckily, apps that have been downloaded for one user don't take up extra storage space when downloaded by a second user. According to Google's documentation, the tablet simulates downloading and installing the app, but doesn't actually keep a second copy of the APK file." >> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/hands-on-multiple-users-lock-screen-widgets-round-out-android-4-2
[16:15] <popey> on neat
[16:40] <X3N> popey: Where do I get the vp8 gstreamer encoder from?
[16:41] <X3N> ah maybe I need to enable universe
[16:42] <X3N> hmm nope
[16:43] <X3N> ah sorry was missing the plugins-bad
[16:47] <popey> X3N, did you find someone to help with that bug?
[16:48] <X3N> no, going to try and fix it now, probably just take the patch that's on ubuntu's version of gtk-recordmydesktop
[17:38] <awilkins> I am confused as to where to report problems in libwebkitgtk-1.0
[17:41] <popey> awilkins, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit
[17:43] <Laney> ubuntu-bug libwebkitgtk-1.0-0
[17:45] <awilkins> Most frustrating. Getting SIGSEGV in libwebkitgtk-1.0 when Eclipse is using it as a brower control
[17:45]  * awilkins wonders if it does this to the main window not just the one you are debugging
[17:45]  * awilkins determines that it does as the internal web browser kills the IDE stone dead
[17:46] <awilkins> Hopefully I can snag a core dump
[17:49] <awilkins> Hmm. How can I make the core dump *useful* ; 1.8GB of raw dump is probably a bit much to upload to Launchpad
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: http://sourceware.org/gdb/download/onlinedocs/gdb/index.html ?
[17:49] <awilkins> TA
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: a full stack trace is what you want :)
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/StackTraces#Obtaining_a_stack_trace_from_a_core_dump
[17:59] <awilkins> I presume only the relevant thread is wanted...
[18:00] <awilkins> Shame there are about 30
[18:00] <awilkins> Oh, 45
[18:06] <awilkins> Debug symbols are big
[18:07]  * awilkins synapses are slowly dissolving in alcohol
[18:07] <Darael> Well, yes.  That would be why they're not installed by default.
[18:08] <Darael> Hey hey!  ICS update for my San Diego.  Finally!
[18:10] <Darael> I was getting more than a little tired of being stuck on Gingerbread on a relatively new phone.
[18:21] <awilkins> Nexus 4 : Good phone, or really annoying because it has no SD card slot...
[18:21] <mgdm> My last phone had an SD card slot (HTC Desire)
[18:21] <mgdm> I only used it once, to put a 16GB card in, and then never cared again
[18:23] <awilkins> Yeah, you could counter the whole "Hey, think that mounting them is a mess, and we hate the file permissions thing", etc, by just going "Install a card, once, and we'll format it for LVM and just make it part of the main volume group that we store everything on it
[18:23] <awilkins> "remove it or change it, and you'd better hope you had a backup"]
[18:23] <dwatkins> Very occasionally I need a MicroSD card and one isn't to hand, and once I've taken the one from my phone and used it, but I could have just walked to a shop and bought one instead.
[18:24] <dwatkins> To me it's a bit like the display - it's there, it works, it doesn't need upgrading.
[18:24] <awilkins> Bugger, I just made gdb coredump
[18:24] <awilkins> Is that bad?
[18:24] <ali1234> awilkins: that's basically exactly what windows phone does and everyone complained
[18:24] <mgdm> heh
[18:24] <dwatkins> is it like Inception, where you're coredumping whilst examining a corecump?
[18:24] <awilkins> Installed the JDK debug symbols. It didn't like it.
[18:24] <mgdm> ali1234: I've done that once or twice
[18:24] <mgdm> err, awilkins I mean
[18:26] <awilkins> "Little did the earthlings know, their entire universe was a debugging session running in the memory space of the UberLord, and soon, it would coredump"
[18:26] <popey> :)
[18:26] <mgdm> so deja vu is when they change something in the debugger?
[18:27] <awilkins> Or when they walk up the stack trace a bit and run the same code again
[18:27] <awilkins> (dunno if you can do this in gdb, you can do this in poncey debuggers like Java and .NET)
[18:28] <awilkins> So : can I allocate more resources to gdb, or should I just be content with not having the Java symbols available?
[18:29] <Darael> Hmm.  Orange additions are still ugly on ICS, but they're a lot prettier than the Gingerbread versions.
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> \o/ nexus phones
[18:29] <Darael> I'd like a nexus, but what can I say?  I'm a skint student.
[18:30] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I wish I still had my Nexus One
[18:30]  * MartijnVdS strokes his Galaxy Nexus
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> my preciousss
[18:30] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: does it have a mluticoloured scroll button? ;)
[18:31] <dwatkins> *multicoloured
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: a multicoloured notification light
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: and only 3 buttons (vol+, vol-, power)
[18:31] <dwatkins> ah neat, the scroll function isn't as useful as the multicoloured aspect
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> after a week you don't miss the scrolling :)
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> my scroll ball didn't scroll up after a few months of use
[18:32] <dwatkins> indeed, I have an HTC Desire HD now
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> when I still had my N1
[18:32] <dwatkins> I now have to put up with red, green or amber notifications
[18:32] <dwatkins> it's such a hard life ;)
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: /r/firstworldproblems ;)
[18:33] <awilkins> Presumably you could have a full-colour notification LED if it had all three colours
[18:33] <mgdm> with alternate firmware you can change the colours
[18:33] <awilkins> Just flash them at different rates
[18:33] <mgdm> I know someone whose notifications are pink
[18:33] <dwatkins> exactly, MartijnVdS :)
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> also /r/firstworldanarchists
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> that one rocks :)
[18:34] <awilkins> My N900 has blue/ amber /green
[18:34] <awilkins> And white
[18:34] <awilkins> Hmm, I wonder if the hardware is capable of others
[19:04] <ali1234> awilkins: yes it is rgb
[19:05] <awilkins> THE NASTY ECLIPSE PROBLEM IS CONFUSING ME
[19:05] <awilkins> WAAH
[19:06] <awilkins> And what's with the eclipse build in Quantal being 3.8, the red-headed stepchild of eclipse builds no-one ever heard of
[19:11] <arsen> is it possible to secure SSH/SSL further to prevent sniffing/decryption?
[19:16] <BigRedS> do you have a specific attack in mind?
[19:16] <BigRedS> You could always stick it down another encrypted tunnel...
[19:17] <ali1234> use certificates
[19:17] <ali1234> swap certificates in person
[19:17] <ali1234> don't accept unknown certificates
[19:17] <ali1234> that's it
[19:17] <arsen> just looking at some firewall appliances that offer ssl/ssh decryption as a feature for monitoring traffic
[19:18] <arsen> wondering how difficult it is to bypass
[19:18] <ali1234> impossible
[19:18] <arsen> and how they go about doing it
[19:18] <BigRedS> oh, yeah
[19:18] <ali1234> they do a very obvious MITM attack on your connection
[19:18] <BigRedS> but if you have to go through that firewall, you can't have it not pretend to be the other end
[19:19] <ali1234> if you have to go through the firewall you either let them sniff the traffic, or you don't send it at all
[19:20] <arsen> well presumably that's how they capture it, but the decryption had me wondering how they do it
[19:21] <BigRedS> they pretend to be the other end
[19:21] <ali1234> they insert their own certificate in place of the server certificate
[19:21] <ali1234> then they get the server certificate
[19:21] <BigRedS> so they decrypt it the same way your intended destination does
[19:21] <ali1234> they get your data encrypted with their cert, decrypt it, encrypt it with the server cert, and send it to the server
[19:22] <ali1234> google man in the middle attack for details
[19:22] <ali1234> his is really obvious to spot btw when you get a cert like "my corporate firewall certificate" instead of "barclays plc" when you go to barclays website
[19:22] <ali1234> at least it is if you are even slightly paying attention
[19:25] <arsen> sure
[19:25] <arsen> but presumably you can block that i guess
[19:26] <ali1234> yeah
[19:26] <ali1234> just send certificates over a secure channel
[19:26] <ali1234> and don't accept invalid ones
[19:27] <ali1234> *might be tricky when you are dealing with websites due to certificate authority BS
[19:27] <ali1234> basically all the security of SSL comes from the way you decide which certificates you trust and which you don't
[19:28] <ali1234> if you leave that decision to certificate authorities you weaken your security
[19:28] <arsen> 5hm
[19:29] <arsen> well, primarly im talking about SSH
[19:29] <arsen> and typically i'd tunnel stuff over ssh
[19:29] <arsen> ill test the ssl thing though, would be interesting.
[19:30] <ali1234> ssh uses many of the same cryptographic systems as SSL
[19:30] <ali1234> that's why you get the certificate warning when the server key changes
[19:30] <arsen> sure
[19:30] <ali1234> with one of these firewall products you would see that warning
[19:30] <arsen> i was looking at websense initially but i looked at the palo alto one too
[19:30] <ali1234> this is exactly the scenario that features is designed to protect against
[19:31] <arsen> we're talking about them in the office, which is cool and all but not a fan of it picking up my tunneled online banking!
[19:45] <AlanBell> meeting in 15 minutes folks
[19:47] <BigRedS> blimey. forgot those happened
[19:49] <AlanBell> well they haven't been happening, so probably about time one did
[19:50] <BigRedS> ah, right. That'd explain it :)
[19:59] <AlanBell> meeting nowish
[20:09]  * AlanBell tickles czajkowski 
[20:09] <czajkowski> oi
[20:09] <AlanBell> #ubuntu-uk-meeting
[20:10] <czajkowski> but but... so tired..
[20:10] <AlanBell> but going to talk about hack and talk and christmas parties and installfests and such
[20:49] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[20:51] <pr0ph3t> I just installed the current nvidia drivers from the ubuntu-x-swat PPA, but now nvidia daemons do no recognise my nvidia card?
[20:51] <pr0ph3t> oh my
[20:51] <pr0ph3t> I have an ALienware with OEM card, could that be the problem?
[21:13] <popey> bye bye bot
[21:20]  * SuperEngineer hears the bugler sounding out the last post for bot
[21:59]  * Laney stole some popey scripts
[21:59] <Laney> http://home.orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/
[21:59] <Laney> runs on the panda :3
[22:11] <popey> yay
[22:22] <Azelphur> hmm...the question is, Microsoft or Linux? http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/linux-detergent.jpg
[22:30] <AlanBell> raring ringtail https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fW1ozSkIEqk#!
[22:36] <dogmatic69> Been looking for a new house and started looking at Wales.
[22:36] <dogmatic69> Though roads would work the same there... http://i.imgur.com/76Vih.jpg