[10:38] <elfy> hi knome - really sorry about weekend, I put my back out :( 
[10:38] <knome> elfy, aha - no problem
[10:39] <knome> elfy, i didn't even remember it myself
[10:39] <elfy> I'm off work for a week now - so anytime you have some to spare for me I'll be about 
[10:39] <elfy> lol 
[10:39] <knome> elfy, hope you're feeling better now
[10:39] <knome> how about in 15 mins?
[10:39] <elfy> yea - funnily enough I then fell down the stairs and put it back in lol
[10:39] <elfy> yep - that will be great - ping me :)
[10:40] <knome> sure
[10:40]  * knome tries to get some coffee into the machine
[10:40] <knome> the human machine
[10:40] <smartboyhw> knome, oh how much coffee is the machine missing?>
[10:40] <knome> no idea
[10:41] <astraljava> Still no IV for caffeine... *sigh*
[10:44] <elfy> lol
[10:50] <astraljava> C'mon science, how much longer?
[10:50] <astraljava> *grumble* This isn't it either.
[10:56] <knome> elfy, ok, i'm all set
[10:56] <elfy> ok - basically I'm still confused lol 
[10:57] <knome> yep, just ask anything you need
[10:57] <knome> we even have astraljava here
[10:57] <elfy> what is it exactly you want from a QA manager :)
[10:57] <elfy> lead or what you want to call them 
[10:57] <knome> the task is pretty much making sure testing will get done
[10:57] <knome> so 1) send call for testing emails
[10:58] <knome> 2) if that doesn't work, try other ways
[10:58] <knome> 3) if that doesn't work, be in contact with me/others about how we could fix the situation
[10:58] <smartboyhw> elfy, on 2) you have the power on the forums so should be easy for you...
[10:58] <elfy> :)
[10:58] <knome> during the R cycle, we want to look at automated testing too
[10:58] <knome> if you know about that, it's great!
[10:59] <knome> if you don't, there will be others with you on it
[10:59] <elfy> knome: I 'know' about it and was set to check the utah things at UDS - unfortunately work interfered 
[10:59] <knome> we need to see how we can make use of automated testing anyway, and that essentially means people *managing things* should be doing most of the stuff anyway
[10:59] <elfy> can catch up on that quite quickly I think 
[10:59]  * smartboyhw needs to learn more about UTAH too
[11:00] <knome> well, "most"; at least, they should tell what they'd need from automated testing
[11:00] <knome> i was at a "UTAH school" session, but that was quite boring. i skipped the other part.
[11:00] <knome> (same goes for pleia2)
[11:00] <elfy> from my understanding the automated stuff is mostly checking that stuff actually installs - is that correct - in a basic sense?
[11:01] <knome> for exampel, UTAH itself isn't hard. the hard part is figuring out how we will benefit from it
[11:01] <knome> elfy, installs, or pretty much anything that returns with an error/pass code
[11:01] <smartboyhw> knome, oh? I thought it should be fun. (But then probably autopkgtest is better)
[11:01] <knome> there are other automated testing things too, but i'm not too familiar with them
[11:01] <elfy> yep - I can spend some time over the next 7 days getting that automated straight in my head and thinking on how we can use it 
[11:01] <smartboyhw> knome, autopkgtest is what I heard about most
[11:02] <knome> if you have the time and motivation, it would be great if you could get your head around them, and maybe send some kind of email to the mailing list telling about what they are and how you think we could use them
[11:02] <smartboyhw> elfy, congrats that you have so much time. (I don't with Physics test on Monday and Geography open-book test on Wednesday
[11:02] <knome> ultimately, i don't care about automated testing for R or S.
[11:02] <elfy> ok knome 
[11:03] <astraljava> knome: Yeah, I'm here. What is it good for? I have no idea.
[11:03] <elfy> am I right in saying no alphas this cycle and 2 betas 
[11:03] <knome> but if we can benefit from that, we should start looking at it so we don't need to build the infrastructure during the LTS cycle, when we want/need the tests the most
[11:03] <knome> yes, we will have two betas but no alphas
[11:03] <elfy> so we're going to be wanting people to do daily tests when they can and reporting to the tracker
[11:03] <elfy> and
[11:03] <smartboyhw> elfy, yep. You got harder work than me then (one beta for Studio only)
[11:03] <knome> testing before betas shall be "social alphas", and we need to communicate when we want those and what to specifically test
[11:03] <elfy> also testing specifics as and when they turn up
[11:04] <elfy> yep - thought I had that right :)
[11:04] <knome> if we could get daily testing in a better shape, that would be awesome
[11:04] <knome> again, let's try to pump it slowly up for the LTS
[11:04] <elfy> one of the other forum admins is also testing xubuntu 
[11:05] <knome> ok, that's great. is he sending testing reports? :)
[11:05] <elfy> I'm sure he will - he's the one who's heavily involved in testing
[11:05] <knome> if you have ideas how to organize daily testing and get the coverage higher, any ideas are welcome
[11:05] <knome> the mailing list is a good place to throw ideas and brainstorm
[11:05] <elfy> I'll be posting on the forum in the testing section too - try and get some more of those people involved
[11:06] <knome> that would be great
[11:06] <smartboyhw> elfy, try to "bother" balloons as much as he accepts, he really does help you along:D
[11:06] <knome> we need reliability over quantity really
[11:06] <elfy> yea - I'll post a couple of threads to the m/l in the next few days then - one about how we'll be testing this cycle and another asking for thoughts about testing generally
[11:06] <elfy> knome: +1 
[11:06] <knome> yeah, balloons (nick skaggs) can help you with a lot of things
[11:07] <elfy> smartboyhw: yea I know all about nick :)
[11:07] <smartboyhw> elfy, LOL 
[11:07] <ochosi> hmm, i don't want to interrupt you too much, but have you discussed the testing of individual apps that are targeted for R yet?
[11:07] <knome> i even fixed his website theme just for fun so i can blackmail him if he's acting wonky :P
[11:07] <knome> ochosi, no, not yet
[11:07] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[11:07] <smartboyhw> knome, what?
[11:07] <knome> smartboyhw, ?
[11:07] <knome> elfy, so yeah, we're introducing a "few" new apps for R
[11:08] <elfy> menulibre for instance?
[11:08] <knome> elfy, we want "social alphas" to test those
[11:08] <smartboyhw> knome, you mean you changed balloons' website theme just to blackmail him?
[11:08] <knome> menulibre, display dialog, gtk color chooser
[11:08] <smartboyhw> elfy, "social alphas" = cadence testing
[11:08] <elfy> aah yes - dispaly was the other I remembered vaguely
[11:08] <knome> smartboyhw, no, i fixed it just for fun. but that allows some blackmailing too d:
[11:08] <smartboyhw> knome, LOL
[11:09] <ochosi> well anyway, if/when you discuss testing the individual apps for R, feel free to ping me
[11:09] <knome> elfy, SUBSCRIBE https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-testing :)
[11:09] <elfy> ochosi: cheers
[11:09]  * smartboyhw will subscribe to the blueprint too
[11:09] <elfy> done knome 
[11:10] <knome> elfy, the assignee is xubuntu team just because i don't want to make you feel like you have to work on it. if you rather want it to say elfy, i can change that
[11:10] <elfy> nah - fine as it is :)
[11:10] <knome> elfy, and if there is any work items you are working on that aren't listed, please add them and keep the status up-to-date
[11:10] <elfy> yep - will do that 
[11:10] <knome> elfy, are you familiar with work items or should we go through that?
[11:11] <elfy> quick run through would be helpful - I did it once 
[11:11] <knome> ok
[11:11] <knome> so the format is
[11:11]  * astraljava raises eyebrows... "all about nick?"
[11:11] <knome> [assignee] work item: STATUS
[11:11] <elfy> astraljava: enough perhaps :)
[11:11] <knome> assignee is a launchpad nick, you can use teams too
[11:12] <knome> work item is a short but accurate description what to do
[11:12] <knome> if you can't keep it in one line, you probably should split it into two or more separate work items
[11:12] <smartboyhw> astraljava, if elfy knows everything about balloons I will surely tell balloons to hide
[11:12] <knome> STATUS is one of: BLOCKED, TODO, INPROGRESS, DONE
[11:12] <knome> they are quite straightforward
[11:13] <elfy> aah yes - I remember fighting that status thing last time :)
[11:13] <knome> use BLOCKED whenever you need somebody else to do something before proceeding
[11:13] <elfy> k
[11:13] <knome> or even if you need broader discussion before continuing
[11:13] <knome> and if you mark something as blocked... you probably should add another work item
[11:13] <elfy> yep - that makes sense 
[11:13] <knome> [lp-nick] do something that unblocks another item: TODO
[11:14] <elfy> fairly logical really
[11:14] <knome> yep
[11:14] <elfy> cool - that all makes sense to me then 
[11:14] <knome> we should be tracked at status.ubuntu.com sooner than later
[11:14] <elfy> so I could in effect change Look at UTAH testing with balloons: TODO from you to me 
[11:14] <knome> well, i already changed that item
[11:14] <knome> refreshed
[11:15] <knome> i was thinking to do that @ UDS, but that didn't work out
[11:15] <elfy> yea - see the changes 
[11:16] <knome> there seems to be a lot of partly overlapping work items
[11:16] <knome> change as you see fit, and feel free to do that along the way too
[11:16] <elfy> ok 
[11:16] <knome> it's a way to track progress, but it's also a very useful tool for assignees
[11:16] <knome> to keep track what they need to do
[11:17] <elfy> yea - done properly all will know what everyone is up to 
[11:17] <elfy> I can see the usefulness in that :)
[11:17] <knome> yeah, and it's easier to track what's actually left to do
[11:17] <elfy> :)
[11:17] <smartboyhw> I like status.ubuntu.com 
[11:17] <smartboyhw> It shows you the progress:D
[11:18] <knome> it's only directional though, not all work items are "worth" the same
[11:18]  * smartboyhw realizes that the Xubuntu and Studio blueprint are not at the page
[11:18] <elfy> anyone know if there is an easy way to filter 'our' new bugs with LP 
[11:18] <elfy> or am I hoping for a good summer 
[11:18]  * elfy hates searching Launchpad 
[11:19] <knome> elfy, you probably should ask mr_pouit/micahg for lp-fu tips
[11:19] <elfy> ok - I will then :)
[11:19] <knome> they'll hate me for telling you to do so, but oh well
[11:19] <knome> ;)
[11:19] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[11:19] <elfy> on a completely unrelated note - do you know what the html code is for xubuntu blue? 
[11:20] <knome> i do
[11:20] <knome> http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/
[11:20] <knome> #04a
[11:20] <knome> or, #0044aa
[11:21] <knome> you know, sleeving cards kind of sucks
[11:21] <knome> but unsleeving - oh man, this is unbearable
[11:21] <elfy> excellent - there's only one person on the forum with user title in xubuntu blue :) http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=610428
[11:21] <knome> hehe
[11:21] <smartboyhw> elfy, LOL
[11:22] <elfy> smartboyhw: no you can't before you ask - admin privilege :D
[11:22] <smartboyhw> elfy, grrr.
[11:23] <elfy> knome: right - thanks for that - I am a bit clearer in my head now 
[11:23] <knome> no problem
[11:23] <knome> just ask if you have more questions
[11:24] <elfy> knome: only other thing is to let you know that I am week on week off at work - so 2 weeks in 4 I am about - but less so 
[11:24] <elfy> but it's a funny week - starts on a Thursday 
[11:24] <knome> yeah, np :)
[11:25] <elfy> I realise everyone else works as well - but last cycle I was about more or less constantly, just thought I should give you heads up on that
[11:25] <knome> yeah, not a problem at all. if there's longer periods when you can't do anything, just tell people (as soon as you know), and we'll get stuff done
[11:25] <smartboyhw> elfy, I forgotten: In last cycle when did you appointed QA contact ?
[11:26] <elfy> knome: yep
[11:26] <elfy> at the end smartboyhw 
[11:26] <smartboyhw> elfy, yeah so last cycle more or less constantly isn't a big problem compared to this one then I think
[11:27] <elfy> ?
[11:27] <smartboyhw> elfy, you said last cycle you weren't about that much right? 
[11:27] <elfy> no - completely the opposite :)
[11:28] <smartboyhw> elfy, then please decode "last cycle I was about more or less constantly".......
[11:28] <elfy> cheers knome - bacon sarnie time for me now I think - and more tea :)
[11:28] <knome> hehe, again, np. and bon appetit :)
[11:28] <elfy> more or less - means mostly all the time smartboyhw :)
[11:29] <elfy> this cycle will be less constantly than last 
[11:29] <smartboyhw> elfy, oh OK since you have work now:D
[11:29] <elfy> yea :)
[11:29] <knome> probably the same for me, at least at the end of the cycle..
[11:30] <smartboyhw> knome, the end of it? Meaning like, March 2013?
[11:30] <knome> next year
[11:31] <smartboyhw> Gee that is bad then
[11:31] <knome> i'll take care i'll be around when needed
[11:32] <knome> but generally people should take more responsibility of their assigned items
[11:32] <knome> i'm not needed to micro-manage everything
[11:32] <elfy> +1 
[11:32] <smartboyhw> Yeah volunteer projects are like that...You may be more busy when you thought you weren't
[11:32] <smartboyhw> knome, +10000000000000000
[11:59] <ochosi> mr_pouit, micahg: there have been various bugreports (and i've been able to confirm that myself) with e.g. app-icons not rescaling in gtk-menus. there are issues with e.g. picasa, jabref, scilab, tgif etc. i'm wondering whether this could be a general gtk2 issue, as i don't see anything xfce-specific in this problem. thoughts? (it looks like this btw: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-11152012-023047am.php )
[11:59] <ochosi> not sure there are real bugreports on lp about that yet tbh, but at least i've read about it in #xubuntu
[12:00] <astraljava> knome: You may not be _needed_, but IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO KNOW SOMEONE CARES!!!!11one
[12:01] <knome> we should really take the social stuff to -offtopic
[12:01] <knome> just saying... :)
[15:41] <mr_pouit> ochosi: Bug #1066591 already reported (but it only occurs with xpm icons)
[15:42] <ochosi> hm, ok, well good to know
[15:42] <ochosi> it's really weird that people still ship xpm icons
[15:42] <ochosi> i mean i can see why it's useful in xfwm4
[15:42] <ochosi> but for app-icons...
[15:44] <mr_pouit> anyway, that's very low on my "mmh, I'm bored let's look into this" list
[15:45] <GridCube> this bug has been reported many times this week
[15:45] <GridCube> at least twice in my watch
[15:49] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, actually andrzej also pointed me to it. but yeah, imo app-maintainers should simply ship icons in a less deprecated format...
[15:58] <mr_pouit> yeah, I've no idea who's at fault here, gdk-pixbuf maybe
[22:49] <pleia2> we need to finish our FAQ :\
[22:49] <knome> yeah
[22:50] <knome> i just hit my toenail and it's about to come out sooner or later
[22:50] <knome> :/
[22:50] <pleia2> ew
[22:50] <knome> yes, IT HURT.
[22:50] <knome> anyway, yeah
[22:50] <pleia2> Q: Why does knome's toe hurt? A: Click here for pictures
[22:50] <knome> no replies in the mailing list :<
[22:50] <knome> eww! :D
[22:51] <pleia2> hehe
[22:51] <pleia2> we can include the release notes errata
[22:51] <knome> :)
[22:53] <GridCube> :( i'm sorry 
[22:53] <knome> GridCube, it's not your fault people aren't helping
[22:53] <GridCube> we can add a question about the xpm icons issue though
[22:54] <GridCube> and if xfce supports gtk3, thats a fairly usual question, i mean, as questions go
[22:54] <knome> anything works for me
[23:22] <Unit193> Where is the Xubuntu rum stored?
[23:23] <knome> rum?
[23:24] <Unit193> For the FAQs, I'm sure that's a good question.  Alacarte should be fixed, thunar should be too, xfdesktop...
[23:24] <knome> :P
[23:24] <Unit193> (At least, so says -proposed)