[00:01] <AlanBell> o/
[00:01] <AlanBell> home now
[06:21] <MartijnVdS> Good morning everyone!
[06:24]  * soreau puts on a pot of coffee
[07:00] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:05] <diplo> Morning all
[08:16] <AlanBell> morning
[08:18] <popey> morning
[08:19] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20325517
[08:25] <theopensourcerer> That's what I keep telling my kids... "The Geeks will inherit the Earth"
[08:30] <ali1234> slow news day?
[08:41] <czajkowski> AlanBell: you filed them nexus 7 bugs you found yet :)
[08:46] <AlanBell> not yet :)
[08:47] <popey> nice one for setting up #ubuntu-steam AlanBell
[08:49] <AlanBell> bug 1079591
[08:49] <AlanBell> popey: I didn't
[08:51] <popey> AlanBell, did you try 3-finger press to get big grab handles on onboard to make it bigger?
[08:52] <czajkowski> popey: we tried everything
[08:52] <czajkowski> it was amusing
[08:52] <czajkowski> :)
[08:53] <czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks told mfisch about that one
[08:54] <czajkowski> popey: http://twitter.com/i/#!/czajkowski/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FUgV9RnvD
[08:55] <popey> so you _did_ try 3 finger touch?
[08:55] <selinuxium> morning all   o/
[08:55] <AlanBell> yes, tried to popey
[08:56] <popey> interesting
[08:56] <AlanBell> couldn't get the handles to appear
[08:56] <AlanBell> and even when it was big and was showing the handles they didn't seem to be draggable
[08:57] <popey> heh
[08:58]  * theopensourcerer reminds AlanBell we have an interview in 1 hr
[08:58] <AlanBell> there needs to be a simpler reset of onboard and possibly some minimum size anyhow
[08:58]  * AlanBell knows
[08:58]  * AlanBell will be in the office shortly
[08:58]  * theopensourcerer makes a note on his timesheet ;-)
[09:03] <theopensourcerer> whats the cli name of the pdf viewer in Ubuntu?
[09:05] <theopensourcerer> I *hate* it when Firefox does this... Sometime it seems to get its app to mime type/file extension mapping screwed up. Has been offering to open .doc and .pdf with gedit :-(
[09:06] <theopensourcerer> nm - found it. evince. That's obvious.
[09:07] <popey> just like "acrobat" is obviously a pdf reader
[09:08] <theopensourcerer> I also hate it that you are not shown a list of apps to which you might like to open said file with. Instead one has to browse to /usr/bin and find it. Usability failure or what.
[09:08] <popey> right click -> open with other application
[09:09] <popey> that should list some apps
[09:09] <popey> but yeah, the firefox "browse for an app" thing is mental
[09:11] <theopensourcerer> the right click doesn't work when the file is sent as a result of clicking a link (i.e. not a direct link to the file).
[09:12] <popey> does it download though, so show up in the downloadificator window of firefox?
[09:12] <popey> right click, open folder
[09:12] <popey> still, ballsache
[09:13] <theopensourcerer> Oh I see what you mean. Possibly. But I tend to nebvedownloadificator window
[09:13] <theopensourcerer> kbd fail.
[09:13] <theopensourcerer> never have the downloadificator window open ;-)
[09:16] <popey> me either, i use chromium :)
[09:17] <theopensourcerer> I use both
[09:18] <theopensourcerer> But FF is the main one. I found chrome/ium a bit more buggy and resource hungry <surprisingly>
[09:18] <popey> that is odd
[09:20] <ali1234> theopensourcerer: xdg-open whatever.pdf
[09:31] <AlanBell> anyone want a steam invite?
[09:32] <diplo> beta ?
[09:32] <AlanBell> yeah
[09:32] <diplo> .o/
[09:32] <daubers> AlanBell: Go on then
[09:32] <AlanBell> too late daubers  :)
[09:32] <daubers> n/m :)
[09:34] <danfish> morning
[09:34] <danfish> AlanBell: you use hetzner iirc - do you use their nameserver robot?
[09:35] <AlanBell> no, don't use them for DNS
[09:46] <MooDoo> hello all
[09:48] <SuperMatt> hi hi
[09:48] <danfish> AlanBell: ok. tx
[09:48] <MooDoo> how is everyone today?
[09:49] <SuperMatt> spiffy, thanks
[10:32] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:40] <SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
[10:41] <brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
[10:42] <directhex> Azelphur, so, are you running a beta tf2 server?
[10:47] <Laney> it's too frustrating that the mouse doesn't click where the pointer is
[10:51] <Laney> http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/1/882965239606145629/ that
[11:36] <popey> anyone got 12.04 on an nVidia dual-screen machine perchance?
[11:40] <diplo> 12.10 on both mine sorry
[11:44] <SuperMatt> dang, 12.10
[11:48] <popey> np
[11:52] <SuperMatt> who runs 12.04 these days anyway?
[11:52] <SuperMatt> I'm moments away from upgrading to 13.04
[11:52]  * popey runs 12.04 on his laptop
[11:52] <popey> along with millions of others
[11:53] <dogmatic69> popey: what is the actual bug you posted on twitter?
[11:53]  * dogmatic69 has 2x monitors and nvidia
[11:53] <dogmatic69> and 12.04
[11:55] <czajkowski> mrevell: make sure you post to the Ubuntu-ie and ILUg ( irish linux user) groups if holding a meet up in Dublin
[11:56] <mrevell> czajkowski, Cool, I didn't want to spam but will do if you think it'll ok
[11:56] <czajkowski> yeha hell ya
[12:03] <popey> dogmatic69, follow the link?
[12:04] <popey> dogmatic69, you need to update to ppa:unity-team/sru  and try opening the dash on one screen then the other
[12:06] <czajkowski> hmm where did the restart later button go
[12:08] <MartijnVdS> right click on the icon in the task bar thingy, close app :)
[12:14] <dogmatic69> popey: When I open on 1) fine, then 2) flashes quick and goes away.
[12:15] <MooDoo> good afternoon everyone
[12:16] <popey> dogmatic69, what version of unity you running (output from apt-cache policy unity) ?
[12:17] <dogmatic69> Installed: 5.16.0-0ubuntu1
[12:17] <popey> ok, so the version shipped in ubuntu, not the one from ppa:unity-team/sru ?
[12:17] <dogmatic69> yep
[12:17] <popey> 5.16.0+bzr2410sruubuntu0+709 is the sru version
[12:17] <popey> this is good news, thank you!
[12:17] <popey> can you comment on the bug that it happens with 5.16.0-0ubuntu1 (so not a regression in our sru)
[12:17] <dogmatic69> I figured I would give you the current version
[12:18] <popey> yeah, brilliant, very helpful
[12:18] <popey> you dont need to upgrade and test
[12:18] <popey> thats sufficient
[12:18] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1079287 in case you lost the link
[12:19] <SuperMatt> oh, out of interest, I've had a bug plaguing me for a while, and I think I saw it in 12.04 and before: essentially, after being on for a short while, opening a new gnome-terminal causes my machine to hang for about 10 seconds before it is loaded. Any one else see this ever?
[12:19] <dogmatic69> popey: updated
[12:20] <popey> thanks a million
[12:20] <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: genius!
[12:22] <dogmatic69> everyone gone to vote for a police guy...
[12:26] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: yes yesterday
[12:27] <dogmatic69> MooDoo: seems like not many people went.
[12:27] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: yeah not many people that interested here either
[12:27] <dogmatic69> imo its a dumb idea.
[12:28] <dogmatic69> Or at least not executed very well.
[12:28] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: or most people just don't care
[12:30] <dogmatic69> well I have not had a single paper through the door regarding it
[12:30] <dogmatic69> no clue who was even up for election
[12:31] <dogmatic69> hardly a way to win support.
[12:31] <dogmatic69> s/a/the
[12:31] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19970734
[14:16] <BigRedS> One day I'll get used to the way that almost everything is available already-packaged in the Debian repositories
[14:16] <BigRedS> but I just got blown away by it again
[14:22] <dwatkins> What particular package pleased you thus, BigRedS?
[14:35] <daubers> dwatkins: Umm.... might be worth rephrasing that....
[14:39] <bokjhv> Hi there, I'm missing the Ubuntu 10.10  x32 edition off my LXFDisc  does anyone know where the download is ??
[14:40] <SuperMatt> I believe 10.10 is no longer supported
[14:40] <SuperMatt> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/
[14:40] <daubers> bokjhv: Do you mean 12.10?
[14:40] <SuperMatt> but you should be able to get it from there
[14:40] <bokjhv> thanx SuperMatt.
[14:41] <SuperMatt> bokjhv: I should have asked the same question as daubers
[14:41] <SuperMatt> are you sure it's 10.10 you want? 12.10 is the latest version
[14:41] <SuperMatt> oh well
[14:41] <BigRedS> dwatkins: tilecache
[14:42] <dwatkins> BigRedS: hehe, good point, thanks, just curious
[14:42] <SuperMatt> I answered his question, can't do much more than that
[14:42] <BigRedS> dwatkins: it's more that I keep getting lists of things to install, fill /opt with tarballs and *then* check apt and find it's all in there
[14:43] <dwatkins> BigRedS: yep, that sounds very familiar
[14:43] <ali1234> everything is packaged in debian
[14:55] <andylockran> hey guys - I'm running VirtualBox and one of my ubuntu machines has stopped at the grub prompt
[14:55] <andylockran> any recommendations on how to get past it?
[14:56] <SuperMatt> what messages do you get at the prompt?
[14:58] <SuperMatt> andylockran: this doesn't answer *your* question, but actually the steps are the same: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
[14:58] <andylockran> it just hangs - can log in to VirtualBox on the server (via X forwarding) and then click through
[14:58] <SuperMatt> well, actually, it does answer the question, but it's a different question
[14:58] <SuperMatt> hurm
[14:58] <SuperMatt> maybe it won't answer your question
[15:00] <SuperMatt> give it a try though, see what happens
[15:00] <ndf> hey guys, I've been out of the loop for a while and haven't really used Ubuntu for like, a year... i realise it still has apt-get but no aptitude - is there a reason I "shouldn't" have aptitude?
[15:00] <andylockran> kewl, thanks!
[15:00] <ndf> i used it for find and list
[15:00] <SuperMatt> ndf: I have aptitude, and this is a fresh  install of quantal
[15:01] <ndf> =/
[15:01] <dwatkins> ndf: I have aptitude, I'm running 11.04.
[15:01] <ndf> odd
[15:01] <SuperMatt> I guess you could apt-get install aptitude
[15:02] <ndf> yeah, that's what I was about to do, I was just wondering if there was a reason (maybe deprecation) that it wasn't already on here
[15:02] <dwatkins> ah, I think I had to install it, I guess it's not installed by defauilt
[15:02] <ndf> it used to be, because I don't ever remember having to apt-get install it
[15:03] <kirrus> It's kinda depreciated, but I think it'll still be supported
[15:03] <SuperMatt> I know synaptic isn't installed by default
[15:03] <diplo> I think it waws removed 10.04 time
[15:03] <ndf> riiight
[15:03] <kirrus> it's just apt-get has been patched tonns to make it better than aptitude at fun stuff like dependency tracking and resolution
[15:03] <diplo> I preferred it if i was honest on some of the results, but they didn't want two maybe so used apt-get as default
[15:03] <diplo> As per kirrus  :D
[15:03] <ali1234> aptitude has not been in the default install for as long as i can remember
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: your memory is <1.5 years? :)
[15:03] <ali1234> i didn't know it ever was
[15:04] <ndf> yeah i think it was still in 10.04
[15:04] <ali1234> right, so it was probably removed at the same time as synaptic
[15:04] <ndf> ahaa
[15:05] <ali1234> which was removed when we got software center
[15:05] <ndf> yeah that makes sense
[15:05] <ndf> lol
[15:06] <ndf> to point out that it doesn't do SCP, the help says "This aptitude does not have Super Cow Powers"
[15:06] <dogmatic69> man. rm somefolder and now server has died.
[15:06] <dogmatic69> load is like 15
[15:06]  * diplo thinks dogmatic69 has done rm -rf /
[15:06] <diplo> :P
[15:07] <dogmatic69> no
[15:07] <dogmatic69> deleted a submodule
[15:08] <dwatkins> I'm so paranoid, I add '--' to my rm -rf commands to ensure no additional options are prepended.
[15:08] <diplo> I am now as well dwatkins, did my first mistake last year
[15:08] <diplo> Good learning curve :)
[15:09] <dogmatic69> How can I see what is causing this?
[15:09] <ndf> if a window has focus and another opens on top but the one below still has focus, clicking on it doesn't bring it to front unless it loses focus first... how annoying
[15:09] <dogmatic69> htop is reloading every 10 seconds :/
[15:09] <dogmatic69> swap -> 4029/4029
[15:10] <SuperMatt> ouch
[15:10] <dogmatic69> ram 3779/3896
[15:10] <dogmatic69> I guess I will have to pull the plug...
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> *beep* *beep* *beeeeeeeeeeep*
[15:11] <dogmatic69> yey for hp ilo
[15:12] <ndf> wtf, i have this samsung netbook, and the CMOS has no boot order settings =/
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> ndf: maybe it shows something like "Press F12 to enter boot menu"?
[15:13] <ndf> seperate from the rest of the CMOS setup?
[15:13] <ndf> hm
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> yes
[15:13] <ndf> is this quite common now?
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> no idea
[15:14] <MartijnVdS> things are changing, with UEFI etc. ;)
[15:14] <ndf> ah
[15:14] <ndf> ty I'll take a look now
[15:15] <ndf> it says f2 is setup, f4 is recovery, and doesn't mention anything else... f12 started PXE net boot
[15:15] <ndf> (which fialed)
[15:15] <ndf> *failed
[15:29] <ndf> lol i was being retarded
[15:30] <ndf> i was looking at the bios n thinking there was just no list under the title 'boot device priority'
[15:30] <ndf> (it's a menu item you have to go /into/)
[15:30] <ndf> haha
[15:30]  * ndf slaps himself
[15:32] <ndf> sweet brb - this live usb key has to go into the netbook now
[16:59] <kvarley> I've install apache2 on ubuntu 12.10 and enabled the user dir module but I'm getting permission denied when I visit http://localhost/~kevin/ Any ideas?
[17:00] <directhex> kvarley, what are the permissions on /home/kevin and /home/kevin/public_html ?
[17:00] <directhex> i.e. does www-data have read & execute permissions on those dirs?
[17:01] <kvarley> directhex: I did chmod -R 775 on public_html
[17:01] <kvarley> directhex: How can I grant www-data access?
[17:02] <directhex> kvarley, so on public_html, but what about on /home/kevin ?
[17:02] <SuperMatt> kvarley: did you restart apache after you enabled the mod?
[17:03] <kvarley> directhex: Ah ok, doesn't seem like it gives access to anybody but me
[17:03] <kvarley> SuperMatt: yes
[17:04] <kvarley> directhex: Oh, just realised my homedir is encrypted
[17:05] <SuperMatt> that might do it
[17:07] <directhex> Azelphur, so, srsly, beta server? the best pings i can find on populated beta servers are 150+
[17:09] <kvarley> Is it possible to reload permissions without logging out and back in again?
[17:09] <SuperMatt> not really :/
[17:10] <kvarley> Ok, brb then ;)
[17:12] <kvarley> AskUbuntu has to be one of the most awesome help sites out there :) That and #ubuntu-uk ofc :)
[17:17] <SuperMatt> there's always #omg!ubuntu!, but no one ever talks in there :(
[17:41] <dogmatic69> any idea why I cant telnet into irc?
[17:41] <dogmatic69> telnet irc.freenode.net 6667
[17:42] <dogmatic69> gets hostname, checks ident and then hangs for a while and times out
[17:42] <dogmatic69> ERROR :Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection timed out)
[17:43] <ndf> anyone know of any software that prevents windows from opening at a size larger than the resolution of the screen? i'm on a netbook with a short height screen =(
[17:49] <dogmatic69> helps if I sent the actual commands :D
[18:47] <Priyank> how to install drivers in ubuntu. please help.
[18:49] <Priyank> anyone there to help??
[18:51] <brobostigon> Priyank: you can install them, using the normal, apt/dpg method.
[18:51] <brobostigon> and using aptitude/synaptic etc.
[18:52] <Priyank> i'm a absolute beginner in this. . can u please help me by giving me the steps.
[18:52] <Priyank> i cant connect to internet/wifi.
[18:53] <brobostigon> Priyank: ok, look up on packages.ubuntu.com thr name of the driver package you need. then look that up, in software centre, and install it.
[18:54] <brobostigon> Priyank: ah, ok, that makes things more complex. look up the package as a said, within the package details, download the .deb package to that machine, ie copy via a usb stick for example. then install with "sudo dpkg -i PACKAGENAME"
[18:55] <Priyank> ok, i''ll try that.
[18:55] <Priyank> can i contact u in future for further assistance??
[18:55] <brobostigon> Priyank: also, download any dependencies it shows it needs.
[18:55] <brobostigon> Priyank: of course, yes. just check that i am here first.
[18:56] <Priyank> any other way to contact u??
[18:56] <brobostigon> Priyank: just ask youre question here, there are loads of people here, that can help.
[18:57] <kirrus> Priyank: you might need to be a little patient for one of us to answer though :-)
[18:57] <Priyank> how do i know which package to download??
[18:58] <brobostigon> Priyank: read the package description, and make sure it matches the ubuntu version you use.
[18:59] <Priyank> what is precise and quantal??
[18:59] <brobostigon> !precise
[18:59] <brobostigon> !quantal
[19:01] <Priyank> i have installed ubuntu 12.04, so i have precise
[19:01] <brobostigon> yes
[19:02] <bokjhv> brobostigon, Hi there .. what was the comand line command in Ubuntu  to kill wireless (?) .. kill connections ?
[19:03] <brobostigon> bokjhv: sudo ifdown NETWORKDEVICE
[19:04] <Priyank> its very confusing, i cant understand anythng there. . .
[19:05] <brobostigon> Priyank: ok, lets have more info, put "iwconfig" into a terminal, and pastebin the output for us.
[19:06] <directhex> Priyank, okay, start from the beginning. you have no WiFi support, or no wired networking support, or both?
[19:06] <Priyank> both.
[19:06] <Priyank> "no wireless extension"
[19:06] <directhex> huh, that's uncommon. what's the hardware? e.g. model of laptop?
[19:06] <brobostigon> thats in the networkmanager applet ?
[19:07] <Priyank> model dell 14r
[19:08] <directhex> Priyank, so, in the general case, drivers for all types of hardware except graphics cards are built into the linux kernel, so all hardware should work "out of the box" as long as the kernel supports it
[19:08] <brobostigon> exception, some still require closed firmware blobs.
[19:08] <bokjhv> Priyank, I've got a samsung  N135 .. just updating atmo.
[19:09] <directhex> brobostigon, ubuntu installs all firmwares by default, the only thing not included is out-of-tree drivers not maintained via ubuntu patches to mainline
[19:09] <Priyank> brobostigon??
[19:10] <Priyank> u htere??
[19:10] <brobostigon> directhex: ok, good point, maybe just used to debian not including such things.
[19:11] <directhex> Priyank, so, apparently there might be a bug in the 14R's BIOS. can you reboot it into the BIOS, and disable the setting "WLAN Toggle"?
[19:11] <Priyank> i'll try tht.
[19:11] <Priyank> what should i do after that.
[19:12] <directhex> just boot back into ubuntu, see if it feels better
[19:12] <Priyank> u guys dont upload video tutorials. . it makes work much more easier.
[19:13] <directhex> Priyank, this isn't a tutorial job, it's a specific issue support job
[19:13] <directhex> Priyank, in most cases, stuff should just work out of the box
[19:13] <Priyank> what is wlan toggle, there is nothing like dat.
[19:14] <directhex> i don't own a dell 14r, i can't give you anything more precise than i'm reading in other peoples' reports
[19:15] <directhex> something like the top entry on http://en.community.dell.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/3324/8664.bios.JPG
[19:16] <Priyank> i'll check.
[19:26] <brobostigon> i like the new android 4.2 topbar pulldown, especially showing battery percentage, without having to go all the way into settings.
[19:28] <directhex> okay, android fans, how do i make the home etc button not be at the bottom of the screen?
[19:28] <ali1234> battery percentage is a massive lie
[19:28] <directhex> buttons at the bottom of the screen render android unusable for kids. so how to dispose? go!
[19:28] <ali1234> the home button is a hardware button
[19:28] <directhex> ali1234, not since android 3.0
[19:29] <ali1234> what? how do you get to the home screen when you're in an app then?
[19:29] <directhex> you press the software home button which android injects into the bottom of every screen
[19:29] <directhex> regardless of screen orientation
[19:29] <ali1234> wow
[19:29] <ali1234> that sucks
[19:29] <Laney> I always accidently mash those
[19:30] <Laney> especially when typing at a pace
[19:30] <ali1234> so if you remove it, how will you get to the home screen, or go back, or open the menu?
[19:31] <directhex> ali1234, i don't care. move the buttons to the top, or some kind of ssecret tap to make them reappear. whatever. point is, toddlers lean on the bottom of the screen, therefore any app with bottom-of-screen buttons is junk. an entire *os* with bottom of screen buttons is junk
[19:31] <brobostigon> ali1234: i agree, but it is useful, also with it being a shortcut, as to what is using cpu and wake time etc, is useful.
[19:32] <ali1234> anyway, it must be possible somehow, because my SGS still has hardware buttons and doesn't put silly extra buttons on the screen
[19:33] <brobostigon> well, i can run, android 4, on my g1, and it has the hw controls, and also shows the software controls also. weird, but thats how it is. i agree, in such situation there must be a way of changing it.
[19:33] <directhex> remember, touchwiz =~ android
[19:34] <directhex> samsung may have mangled the controls in touchwiz, but they're fixed in upstream android
[19:34] <ali1234> i don't use samsung rubbish
[19:34] <ali1234> i use cyanogen 10
[19:34] <ali1234> it's android 4.1.2.
[19:34] <Azelphur> ali1234: ^5
[19:35] <ali1234> ^5?
[19:35] <Azelphur> high five :P
[19:35] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/August/IMG_20120831_205728.jpg
[19:35] <ali1234> pretty much
[19:35] <ali1234> anyway cyanogen knows how to get rid of the software buttons
[19:36] <Azelphur> I'd have a Nexus 4 too if google built more than 3 of them
[19:36] <ali1234> so it must be possible somehow
[19:36] <ali1234> touchwiz is really bad
[19:37] <brobostigon> ali1234: it is possible, because early 4* builds for my g1, had only those hw controls.
[19:37] <ali1234> Azelphur: did you manage to sell that phone you were selling?
[19:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: the galaxy s3? luckily ebay randomly banned me so no
[19:38] <Azelphur> which is a mixed blessing, on the plus side google made a total of 3 nexus 4's, so I didn't get one, so if it had of sold I'd have had no phone
[19:38] <Azelphur> on the downside, I'm of course banned from ebay
[19:42] <directhex> OI Azelphur! BACK TO WORK!
[19:42] <Azelphur> :o
[19:42] <Azelphur> directhex:  I don't have any TF2 beta server, only TF2 official
[19:44] <directhex> reportbug -s "OPEN A TF2 BETA SERVER FOR LINUX STEAM TESTERS!" azelphur
[19:44] <Azelphur> hehe
[19:44] <Azelphur> supporting the official release is annoying enoug
[19:44] <Azelphur> h
[19:45] <directhex> :'(
[19:45] <directhex> dude, 150 ping
[19:45] <Azelphur> directhex: you probably won't get amazing ping to my server either, it's in east coast US
[19:45] <Azelphur> try pinging azelphur.com
[19:45] <directhex> laaaaaaaame
[19:45] <directhex> i'm amazed just how few beta servers there are tbh
[19:46] <directhex> i.e. 10
[19:46] <Azelphur> haha
[19:46] <Azelphur> yea, not many people do beta
[19:46] <directhex> not full or empty or passworded = 8
[19:47] <directhex> well, there's one good thing about beta
[19:47] <directhex> i still own max's severed head
[19:47] <Azelphur> Interesting, that does tempt me to get into
[19:47] <Azelphur> shiny advertising revenue :3
[20:03] <bokjhv> mmhphf .. I went for the MIUI thingy.
[20:05] <Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LG-GOOGLE-Nexus-4-16GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-BNIB-/110977272495?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item19d6c2caaf&autorefresh=true
[20:05] <Azelphur> nexus 4's are getting ridiculous amounts on ebay o.O
[20:15] <AlanBell> so you take a reasonable phone, add the awesome feature of not costing much, and people are prepared to pay well over the odds for it, thus discarding it's main feature
[20:16] <Azelphur> haha
[20:41] <ali1234> well it has the other awesome feature of actually possibly getting updates from time to time
[20:41] <ali1234> but only if you buy it from google
[20:42] <ali1234> why does TF2 linux need a special server?
[20:43] <directhex> tf2 beta does. it's a different product
[20:43] <ali1234> how does that make any sense?
[20:43] <ali1234> i mean i get that it has to have a different product ID so that only beta users can install it
[20:44] <directhex> tf2 has a steam appid of 440. tf2 beta has a steam appid of 520
[20:44] <directhex> everyone on every platform can install either, but you can't interact between the two products
[20:44] <ali1234> so if you go into TF2 beta and manually type in a regular TF2 server address, the steam DRM prevents you from connecting to the server?
[20:45] <directhex> you don't need to be in the steam beta to use the tf2 beta. just run steam://install/520
[20:45] <directhex> ali1234, not a drm question, an incompatible protocol question
[20:45] <directhex> remember the old days, where e.g. quake 2 server & client needed the same version?
[20:45] <ali1234> not really no
[20:46]  * AlanBell remembers doom, when you needed to make up a serial cable
[20:46] <ali1234> besides, those were the old days
[20:46] <ali1234> or set up IPX netwrking
[20:46] <AlanBell> and wolfenstein which I don't recall being multi player
[20:47] <directhex> i think the main issue is the economy
[20:47] <directhex> the beta and the "real" game are not part of the same economy. i.e. no hats for sale in the beta
[20:47] <ali1234> the economy?
[20:47] <ali1234> you mean like the hat exchange rate could crash due to it?
[20:47] <directhex> yeah
[20:47] <directhex> hats are big business
[20:47] <ali1234> that kinda makes sense i suppose
[20:47] <kvarley> directhex: You can play  tf2 without a beta invite? 0.o
[20:48] <kvarley> directhex: Or does it just let you download it?
[20:48] <directhex> kvarley, on windows you can play tf2 or tf2 beta, without any special things. on linux you cannot play tf2, and can play tf2 beta only with an invite
[20:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, the protocols are different
[20:48] <directhex> ali1234, it's an 8-figure economy!
[20:48] <Azelphur> kvarley: you can't play tf2 without a beta invite, you can login to steam though
[20:48]  * Azelphur is in the beta :p
[20:48] <ali1234> beta schmeta
[20:48] <ali1234> this stuff is too complicated
[20:48]  * kvarley is envious of Azelphur
[20:48] <Azelphur> hehe
[20:48] <ali1234> they should just make 1 beta
[20:49] <ali1234> not millions
[20:49] <kvarley> I bought and played Killing Floor via the Steam Beta
[20:49] <kvarley> It's like Christmas has come early this year
[20:49] <Azelphur> ali1234: there's the Linux beta, which is a closed beta
[20:49] <kvarley> Been hoping for this for 7+ years :P
[20:49] <Azelphur> and there's the team fortress 2 beta, where they test out new ideas before implementing them in the release version
[20:49] <Azelphur> TF2 beta is like WoW's PTR
[20:50] <ali1234> yeah eve has a server like that too
[20:50] <Azelphur> :)
[20:50] <ali1234> makes sense that they'd keep it seperate
[20:50] <directhex> haaaaats
[20:50] <Azelphur> Advanced hat simulator 2012.
[20:50] <Azelphur> :p
[20:50] <directhex> tf2 is the world's favourite war-themed hat simulator
[20:50] <kvarley> haha
[20:50] <ali1234> so the "TF2 for linux" just happens to be a build of TF2 beta, rather than TF2 stable
[20:50] <directhex> and assassin's creed 3 is the most advanced pig petting simulator ever
[20:51] <directhex> ali1234, bingo
[20:51] <Azelphur> ali1234: no, it's both
[20:51] <ali1234> the TF2 beta is not specifically a build for linux
[20:51] <ali1234> ok, i get it now
[20:51] <Azelphur> you can play TF2 stable or TF2 beta on Linux
[20:51] <Azelphur> :)
[20:51] <directhex> Azelphur, i can't
[20:51] <directhex> i get "servers are busy" from appid 440
[20:51] <Azelphur> directhex: you can play TF2 beta without being in the beta?
[20:52] <directhex> Azelphur, i'm in the beta
[20:52] <Azelphur> oh, fun
[20:52] <directhex> Azelphur, but i don't have access to stable tf2
[20:52] <Azelphur> :<
[20:53] <directhex> i even paid for the orange box, damnit
[20:53] <ali1234> what's the deal with invites?
[20:54] <Azelphur> ali1234: invite is for the Linux beta
[20:54] <AlanBell> you had to be registered in Launchpad for UDS
[20:54] <ali1234> AlanBell: no i meant, how were you able to give one away? they're not tied to specific steam accounts? or is this just for UDS people?
[20:54] <directhex> ali1234, so the way the beta is being implemented at the moment is by making the beta quit unless you own a specific game, "Steam for Linux". canonical are emailing people the CD key for this game, which they add to their steam accounts
[20:55] <AlanBell> there was an email with a code in it because I was registered for UDS
[20:55] <AlanBell> I don't know how it relates to steam accounts
[20:55] <ali1234> yeah, figures, if registered for UDS they can't know your steam account (if you even have one)
[20:56] <Azelphur> AlanBell: you probably start up steam and click redeem gift voucher
[20:56] <AlanBell> dunno if it is even a personal key or not
[20:56] <directhex> "Activate a Product on Steam"
[20:56] <Azelphur> which would be amusing thinking about it, because you'd have to exploit steam to be able to do so
[20:57] <directhex> or paste steam://open/activateproduct in your browser address bar
[20:59] <popey> thats exactly what I did, redeem product on steam
[21:00] <Azelphur> fun
[21:00] <popey> got a mail with a code from valve
[21:00] <popey> opened the client on windows and punched in the code, then unpacked the tarball on linux and ran it, job done
[21:01] <Azelphur> you got a tarball? everyone else only got a .deb
[21:01] <ali1234> i see
[21:01] <directhex> unless borderlands 2 gets added to the beta in the next half hour, i think i'll reboot to windows
[21:01] <AlanBell> so is that a personal single use code, or did everyone get the same code?
[21:02] <Azelphur> I'd imagine it'd be personal single use
[21:02] <ali1234> if everyone got the same code it would be getting passed around by now
[21:02] <directhex> they're personal single use codes
[21:02] <directhex> CD keys, like you find in a game box
[21:02] <popey> Azelphur, i got it before it went public
[21:03] <Azelphur> fun :)
[21:03] <popey> it was encrypted too
[21:03] <AlanBell> diplo is my gaming deputy
[21:12] <selinuxium_> Hmm... Trying to install openvas on a 12.04 server apparently, the version of libmicrohttpd package was updated recently which has broken openvas. How do I go about installing a previous version?
[21:14] <popey> depends if its still in the repo
[21:14] <popey> apt-get install packagename=versionnumber
[21:14] <popey> e.g. sudo apt-get install unity=5.16.0-0ubuntu1
[21:14] <popey> or apt-get install package/pocket
[21:15] <popey> e.g sudo apt-get install unity/precise
[21:15] <selinuxium_> Oooh... Cheers popey  :)