[00:00] <Len-nb> Maybe it has been fixed there is a build for today, but I can't upgrade the low latency kernel still.
[00:00] <zequence> Len-nb: You should be able to install the image separately
[00:01] <zequence> Len-nb: I notified apw about it
[00:01] <zequence> The guy who maintains it atm
[00:01] <Len-nb> Ah, I thought that was you for some reason...
[00:01] <zequence> Len-nb: I haven't yet taken over maintenance
[00:02] <Len-nb> Ok, I am not in a hurry to get it, just thought it should work is all :)
[00:03] <zequence> Yep
[08:29] <smartboyhw> OK guys we got the build actually built but you can't install it.
[08:29] <smartboyhw> Bug 1079193 breaks installation in all images (all flavours)
[09:28] <smartboyhw> astraljava1, why extra nick?
[09:39] <astraljava1> Got disconnected, hold on.
[09:41] <smartboyhw> Oh...That's why. 
[14:24] <smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
[14:36] <smartboyhw> Ladies and Gentlemen: Ubuntu Studio is now in Wubi!!!!!
[14:37] <zequence> smartboyhw: So, will you be able to test install it?
[14:38] <smartboyhw> zequence, hopefully yes. Some guy bcbc actually tested the original version of the code and told me it was wrong, I fixed it and the code was now merged into Wubi source code. Hopefully he will test it again
[14:48] <smartboyhw> Bug 1070682 closed:D
[14:57] <smartboyhw> micahg, can you please upload ubuntustudio-icon-theme 0.14 for len-dt I think we will want that fix a.s.a.p.
[14:59] <smartboyhw> gee then someone should go update the seeds and the metas
[15:00] <zequence> Seems like Steam coming to Ubuntu will improve chances of working ATI graphic drivers
[15:00] <smartboyhw> zequence, I have it here already (though it is 13.04)
[15:01] <zequence> smartboyhw: fglrx?
[15:01] <smartboyhw> zequence, I mean Steam Beta
[15:02] <zequence> ATI graphic drivers have their ups and downs. The open source drivers are fully functional and I think support more devices than the proprietary ones, but seem to have problems with overheating
[15:03] <zequence> fglrx on the other hand may or may not work, depending on the Ubuntu release
[15:03] <zequence> From what I understand, Steam will put pressure on AMD to get their proprietary drivers working well on Ubuntu
[15:04] <zequence> Right now, Nvidia and Intel graphic card are well supported, but not AMD ATI
[15:05] <zequence> Hopefully with Steam coming to Linux there will be more focus on well working graphic drivers
[15:06] <zequence> A quote from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valve, "NOTE: The fglrx-experimental-9 driver will be available in precise-proposed soon, but is not yet available."
[15:18] <smartboyhw> bye zequence 
[17:05] <astraljava> zequence: Yeah, I wonder how they'll do that. They just axed the OS folks department in Germany.
[17:26] <zequence> astraljava: Since fglrx already exists, I'd imagine it wouldn't take them too much resources to make it work ok
[17:28] <astraljava> zequence: Well... they've had fglrx existing for quite some while. Look where it's gotten them. :)
[17:32] <zequence> astraljava: They didn't have good enough reason to get it working better in the past. And from what I hear, Valve does work closely with Nvidia and AMD to better graphics, as does probably a lot of big gaming companies
[17:34] <astraljava> Sure, it does sound logical when you put it that way. But then their actions tell a different story.
[17:40] <zequence> astraljava: I haven't followed AMD business closely, but from what I understand, they are putting less effort on x86 arch
[17:40] <zequence> And I wouldn't know how that would affect ATI graphic cards
[17:46] <astraljava> Well, I don't think arch has anything to do with it. Most of the major linux distributions have announced the majority of their new installs base is non-x86 anyway, so it doesn't sound like the reason.
[17:46] <astraljava> But, with big business, what do the outsiders know.
[18:15] <zequence> astraljava: I don't think the linux distros not using x86 are as concerned with the development of fglrx (servers, and such). 
[18:15] <zequence> AMD announced that they were no longer competing with Intel on x86 as they used to
[18:16] <zequence> And I'm assuming the cuts are somehow related, I don't really know
[18:16] <zequence> AMD ATI Radeon however, is a different issue all together
[18:24] <zequence> This is about the open source driver problem http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE3ODg
[19:13] <zequence> hmm. When I maximize windows in 12.10, the top window bar disappears just like in Unity?
[19:14] <zequence> This install is messed up, but I'm still a little surprised to see it happen
[19:14] <zequence> Ah, the top panel is set to autohide, but it doesn't hide
[22:20] <holstein> zequence: i ask users to run as root as a troubleshooting step for permissions
[22:22] <holstein> zequence: i actually used the word "temporarily" in my susggetion
[22:22] <holstein> suggestion*
[22:23] <holstein> 14:36 < holstein> paul__: try running temporarily as root
[22:26] <zequence> holstein: Yea, but if he can start jack, then you can conclude he doesn't have a permission problem
[22:26] <holstein> zequence: i wasnt convinced it was starting
[22:26] <holstein> zequence: it was a choice i made, and i said "temporarily".. but im trying to appreciate you clarifying
[22:27] <holstein> it wont hurt
[22:27] <holstein> i dont think that is the issue for him though
[22:28] <holstein> its not an ardour issuse... 
[22:29] <holstein> i think its making noise becuase he's trying to push too much with it
[22:30] <holstein> if he comes back, we'll see... and i'll just keep quiet
[22:30] <holstein> its nice having other supportes in the channel
[22:30] <holstein> supporters*
[22:30] <zequence> There does seem to be a tendency for other users to help out
[22:30] <holstein> yup... now a days, we have a few
[22:31] <zequence> Don't know if the amount of users logged in has increased much. Can't remember from before
[22:31] <zequence> 36 is not a bad number
[22:31] <holstein> i popped in the channel at the end of 2009 and asked a question... waited a week and asked again.. and i was the only one answering questions for the most part til recently
[22:32] <holstein> i think 12.04 is solid
[22:32] <holstein> attracting users again :)
[22:32] <zequence> Only problem with 12.04 is jack though
[22:32] <holstein> works OK for me
[22:32] <holstein> so far at least
[22:32] <zequence> jackdbus?
[22:32] <zequence> Or jackd
[22:32] <holstein> i havent had any issues doing my normal thing with 12.04
[22:33] <zequence> If you stop jackdbus, eventually it crashes and stays running in the background
[22:33] <zequence> You can't kill it from the system monitor
[22:33] <holstein> zequence: so far, its been clean starts and stops
[22:33] <zequence> holstein: jackdbus, or jackd?
[22:33] <holstein> just jackd AFAIK
[22:33] <zequence> jackd will work fine, but not jackdbus
[22:33] <zequence> jackdbus is the default
[22:34] <holstein> i didnt change anything
[22:34] <holstein> i just hit start, and its been working fine
[22:34] <zequence> holstein: Did you disable dbus?
[22:34] <holstein> start, stop ..edit settings .. start
[22:34] <holstein> zequence: not at first
[22:34] <zequence> holstein: It's a known and verified bug with jackdbus, it crashing when trying to stop it
[22:34] <holstein> zequence: i can test more though and see.. when i get my firewire device back over here
[22:34] <zequence> One which I'm about to fix
[22:35] <holstein> cool
[22:35] <holstein> i had read about it.. but im not intersted in the dbus thing anyways
[22:35] <zequence> Many users have had to reboot in order to be able to start jack again
[22:35] <holstein> zequence: i did notice that in 12.10 in testing, but i assumed it was just me
[22:36] <zequence> There's also the matter with the kernel not being as well performing as pre version 3.*
[22:37] <zequence> You might get random xruns at fairly high latencies. 
[22:37] <holstein> well, i get noticably better performance in 10.04 with the rt kernel from 9.10
[22:37] <holstein> and falks realtime kernels
[22:37] <zequence> You mean aboganis :)
[22:37] <holstein> its a bit of a regression, but im still hopeful
[22:37] <holstein> zequence: those are falks though.. he patched them for nvidia
[22:37] <zequence> I haven't yet tested the raring kernel. 12.10 is still a bit sucky
[22:38] <holstein> i suppose i might have to learn to make my own
[22:38] <zequence> Don't think realtime is much better
[22:38] <zequence> Haven't been for me on Debian anyway
[22:38] <holstein> hmm. that sux
[22:38] <zequence> Depends more on the kernel version than on realtime/lowlatency for me
[22:39] <holstein> i assumed a realtime would be on par with the old one
[22:39] <zequence> This is why I'll be using 2.6.37 version, no matter which release
[22:39] <holstein> i might too...
[22:39] <zequence> Nah, the realtime kernels have been worse since 3.0 or there around
[22:39] <holstein> i like the old kernels abogani and falk had
[22:39] <holstein> they work great...
[22:40] <zequence> The lowlatency kernel 2.6.37 was awesome
[22:40] <holstein> i need that damn nvidia driver for dual head :/
[22:40] <holstein> i might look into friendlier hardware for this though...
[22:41] <zequence> holstein: Here's a howto I made on building 2.6.38 lowlatency
[22:41] <zequence> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildOldLowlatency
[22:41] <holstein> zequence: cool.. i'll bm that for later
[22:45] <zequence> holstein: That is using the official ubuntu 2.6.38 kernel, and since you build not just the image, but also the headers, you'll be able to install proprietary graphic drivers
[22:45] <holstein> yeah, im fuzzy on all that
[22:46] <holstein> i glaze over about 3 lines in.. but thats where i am
[22:46] <holstein> i think i need a basic linux class or something, if im going to properly contribute
[22:46] <holstein> making my own kernel would be helpful it think
[22:46] <holstein> anyways.. i gotta go to work
[22:47] <zequence> holstein: Building a kernel in itself is not that difficult. But, I guess understanding each step might take a few moments to go through
[22:47] <holstein> picked up thursdays and fridays at a club here from thanksgiving til the end of the year :)
[22:47] <zequence> holstein: Have fun
[22:47] <holstein> zequence: its pretty daunting if you literally have no idea about he jargon
[22:48] <holstein> its like a question i got recently.. "whats the difference between a URL and an HTTP?"
[22:48] <holstein> i mean, you gotta unwind that a bit just to even say yes or no... and thats where i am with most of this lower level stuff
[22:48] <zequence> holstein: There are mostly three things to worry about. 1. vanilla or generic source? 2. make sure you have the right config file(the one that makes it -lowlatency) 3. command to build it
[22:48] <holstein> im not a coder.. and im not sure i want to be, but i like learning and helping support USB
[22:49] <holstein> US*
[22:49] <holstein> anyways... chow! and enjoy the evening/day!