[05:25] I would like to help out with the project. My skill level is pretty low, but I can handle the graphic design and maybe the wordpress theme for the website. Let me knwo [16:52] Hello there all I mean awesome people ! Just a reminder that the meeting is today check out the fridge for more details thanks . http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ [17:10] er I need to learn how to use the fridg calender better [17:29] google thinks that I live in Dubai now I see what is going on [17:33] bobweaver, so when is that meeting suppose to be? Because it's listed as being 4.5 hours ago [17:34] yeah I noticed that [17:34] I thought that 1pm my time [17:34] was good [17:34] but..... [17:34] we can have it here ? [17:34] yea you put it for 1:00 PM GMT [17:34] No google claender did that [17:34] well yea [17:34] because it thinks that I live in dubai [17:35] dont know why [17:35] lol [17:35] if you don't specify timezone, it uses the calendar default [17:35] and the fridge calendar is in GMT [17:35] * bobweaver is google calender N00b [17:35] fuck we should re-schedule ? [17:35] good news is [17:36] Ubuntu TV hits France =) [17:36] https://plus.google.com/b/104659991254860976283/104659991254860976283/posts [17:38] had trouble with video lens worked great until 4am last night and craped out [17:39] dub will not connect to /com/canonical/unity/lens/video nor /net/launchpad/unity/lens/video [17:39] dbus * [17:40] worked all the way up untill party then 5 hours before it it stoped working so need less to say I was up till 6am my time trying to re-create and fix but there was nothing I could not re-create it on my box [17:52] bobweaver, probably better to just email the interested parties and see if we can meet later today [17:52] eg. in a few hours as it's getting late for UK folks [17:52] tgm4883, can you do that ? [17:52] preety plz [17:53] I have to get dresssed [17:53] let me look at the agenda [17:54] * bobweaver can not be trusted with google calender lesson learned and checked off not to do list =) [17:54] bobweaver, you are the only one one the agenda [17:54] lol [17:54] alright then [17:55] I'm new to all of this so don't know how to add to the Agenda but no doubt will learn as we go forwards [17:55] might be better to just figure out what you need and contact the right people rather than throw together a last minute meeting [17:55] CrestedNewt_, it's a wiki [17:55] well sence you are here any py comming out ? I have been slaxing on the c++ NUX did a little bit but it is hard with me setting up Ubuntu fr [17:55] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Meeting [17:55] scope ^^ [17:55] which is wrong too ;) [17:55] lol [17:56] * bobweaver nomanates tgm4883 to take control of meeting times [17:56] and wiki and google calender [17:56] bobweaver, so for meetings, I think you're suppose to do a generic link like you did there, but then link to another page that is for that specific meeting. eg https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Meeting-2012-11-17 [17:57] yeah that is what I was going to do after 1st meeting [17:57] Can't we just do with that what we do with all the other stuff we don't want to do and assign it to popey ;) [17:57] :p [17:57] like instead of there being a list of agendas it would go to new page [17:57] yeah lets put it on popey [17:57] ;D [17:58] bobweaver, so I'm still working on extending mythtvapi.py to use all of the services, I had to rewrite some stuff since I ported it to Python 3 [17:59] bobweaver, we do need to write a few specs though [17:59] cool [18:00] yeah I worked on rendercoverflow and mad new camara views so that it will look like Ubuntu tv [18:00] but I caught up in all the jazz of Ubuntu-tv-fr [18:00] for the last week [18:00] bobweaver, we'll need to coordinate some of the unity stuff with how you want to do things [18:00] +1 [18:00] I think that it is best if Ubuntu TV goes from LTS to LTS [18:01] like 12.04 then Unity and myth intergration in next LTS [18:01] nah, well need 13.04 and 13.10 stuff for bug fixing [18:01] s/bug fixing/tweaking [18:02] not going to happen ^^ not enough time nor people and also no oine helps me on #ubuntu-unity or mailing list [18:02] my end of stuff [18:02] bobweaver, well pieces [18:02] that is [18:03] that is what I am saying that there is no way that I am going to be able to get done with this by 13.04 maybe peices of it yeah but not a full interface [18:03] I am only one person and NUX sucks [18:03] buggy as all hell [18:03] does not do what you tell it too [18:03] stupid engine needs way more work [18:04] like for rendering camara viewes [18:04] so when people say make Unity 3d intergration they are missing something [18:05] libdee lib nux glib C++ and they are changing the code so fast because there is 5 packages [18:05] lets not forget about lib unity core now [18:05] bobweaver, ok, so lets break this down a bit [18:05] sounds like a good plain [18:05] bobweaver, what parts need to be done to present guide data === nikis__ is now known as nikis [18:06] well there is nothing in Nux to render layout like that also passing of bus like that is also hard [18:06] so need to add stuff to lib unity and lib nux [18:07] ok, who adds stuff to libunity and libnux? [18:07] but setting up form-factor is the real hard part [18:07] you? [18:07] yeah try to get things into repo is super effin hard [18:07] like I tried to get simple script in and it was denied over and over again [18:07] Ubuntu tv needs to branch out [18:07] mhall119, is there anyone we can lean on to assist with this ^ [18:08] needs its own libs [18:08] other change to much I mean it can still be "Unity " [18:08] same code but needs to stop changing [18:09] it is not that just unity is changing it is that libdee libnux ligies libutouch glib ect [18:09] it sounds like without an actual canonical unity developer we aren't going to be going anywhere [18:09] now when cmake calls that it is just looking for local packages [18:10] if local [ackage changes guess what [18:10] package * [18:10] tgm4883, that is correct [18:10] 100% [18:11] or .. more people from the Unity project to take into account that there is a tv [18:11] that there is a phone [18:11] that there is a ..... [18:11] they only care about desktoip [18:11] or atleast that is what I see [18:12] could be wrong [18:12] does unity team have public meetings? [18:12] I asked on mailing list and have gotten nothing back [18:13] like 6 months ago [18:13] maybe 4 [18:13] only people that got back to me where jim and mark [18:14] that is such a googd point though tgm4883 maybe we can get some to show up [18:14] Question to all... If there was a stable release, without any updates, could you make the necessary changes to the libs? [18:14] so I guess let me try to explain this better [18:14] CrestedNewt_, no the 2d is stable [18:14] not 3d [18:15] so back to Unity 3d [18:15] @Bobweaver - thx [18:15] CrestedNewt_: Error: "Bobweaver" is not a valid command. [18:16] I could make mock up in 2 months or so but the things that I am working on from one month ago might not work. also setting formfactor is hard ;/ [18:16] like it is not just like unity3dformfactor == "TV" do this [18:16] bobweaver, so what parts get changed upstream that no longer work? I'm having trouble visuallizing this, but admittedly, I don't know much about unity code [18:17] like unity 2d the declaritive expectations are harder way way way harder [18:17] also, I only know python, so that doesn't help me here either :) [18:17] no I am saying that there is a chance not that it would happen but there is a chance [18:17] becuase there is no one in Unity team that is saying hwy there is a phone hey there is a tv [18:18] ect [18:18] bobweaver, ok, what about this [18:18] I can not watch all changes to them packages [18:18] bobweaver, if upstream unity made some stubs for tv and phone form factors, would that help? [18:18] if other take on other packages . Imean my email would fill up so fast [18:18] then you just did whatever you needed to do in there? [18:19] OMG that would be great [18:19] IDK how much work that is, but it would seem to me that would be a valid request of the Ubuntu TV team to make to the Unity team [18:19] but again I want to stress the fact that there is a number of packages that need to be watched [18:20] +1 tgm4883 [18:20] So it seems to me a few things need to be done [18:20] 1) Form factor for TV [18:20] if you open CmakeList.txt you can see all the packages [18:20] 2) Layout for episodic content [18:20] 3) layout for guide data [18:21] those 3 being the main things for Ubuntu TV [18:21] yeah but also this [18:21] ok I will paste CMAKELIST>txt er aps sorry brb [18:22] also keep in mind that wwe are working from the stagging and they are all different libs then the ones that are in main [18:23] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/CMakeLists.txt [18:23] Lines 160 too 191 [18:24] See the versioning numbers [18:25] yea [18:25] if you run apt-cache policy packagename you will see that there not on system [18:25] if you are not using stagging [18:25] true, but this is trunk, so that is expected [18:25] andd that some of then DO NOT make it to main [18:25] because they are stagging [18:26] also codding with all them 'staging deps' is hard because everything crashs all the time [18:26] mainly compiz [18:26] that is a number of the troubles I am not saying that it is a bad thing [18:27] just that it is what it is [18:27] it is a good thing but it is hard for one person to follow [18:27] and that deps list was just updated and pushed by steven 2 or 3 days ago [18:27] well merdged [18:28] So it was different 5 days ago [18:28] so those versions there are minimums [18:28] correct [18:28] and max [18:28] have to be that version [18:28] unless <= [18:28] and just because one may get bumped to a newer required version, doesn't necessarily mean it would break something of yours. The methods you call should still be there [18:28] just like Depends feild in debian/control [18:29] right, but it's only going to get changed if there is something additional that is needed from a new/different version. [18:29] sometimes Like I was saying it is jst a observation of things that I see not bad by any means [18:29] Stuff added, not usually removed [18:30] likr this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/CMakeLists.txt [18:30] so I think when stuff breaks, you should probably open a bug report [18:30] good point ^^ [18:31] so with that said, does that make any of this easier? [18:31] yeah it is not that it is a problem it is just that it is there [18:32] My understanding is that lens layouts are independent of form factor [18:32] it is me I am not use to coding like this [18:32] but I am catching on [18:32] maybe if we make mock up hand off to desgin team ? [18:33] or maybe get design team more involed we could spam there mailing lists ? [18:33] well the mockup for DT is going to mainly be form factor right? [18:33] correct [18:33] bobweaver, nah, I say write it and have design team come in later. Alternatively, have them look at the spec [18:33] This was my idea at 1st [18:34] make a cp of Unity and place into its own dir say Standalone/ which is already there [18:34] personally, I'd like you to do layouts first, then form factor stuff. [18:34] so whichever way works for you [18:34] then alter code and have it look like Ubuntu tv then hand off to desktop team. [18:35] but I ran into snag of form-factor [18:35] not sure how to call like that and also that windowing manager must be re-wrote [18:35] I will show you [18:36] Lnes 174 too 195 [18:36] lines [18:36] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/unity-standalone/StandaloneUnity.cpp [18:36] you can see how the formfator is called in that sile [18:36] file * [18:36] if (!force_tv) [18:36] sorry [18:36] if (force_tv) Settings::Instance().form_factor(FormFactor::TV); [18:37] ok, so standalone I'm guessing is desktop, and standalonetv is for TV's? [18:37] But I tried to write that into LensView and ummm maybe I am not good enough ? [18:38] yeah standalone is a standalone version of unity you can see in video [18:38] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlOacuIldM8 [18:38] that was code before libnux and lib unity changed [18:39] not sure I understand what a standalone version of unity is? [18:40] fancy word for a window that can be independent [18:40] like it can run in its own env [18:41] see how in video there is 2 unity's running [18:41] one is just a standalone window * [18:41] the one that I launch from IDE [18:41] that is the only place that formfactor tv is in for alll of code [18:42] so I thought that Unity people want it to be like that [18:42] ok, so I'm assuming standalone still exists and is used for developing unity? [18:42] so lets make some plains for future and list them here I think that we got some great idea's so far [18:43] Yes ^^ [18:44] well you can launch other things but standalone is a window that is independent like when complie you can choose other options wait I will take screenshot [18:44] i dont know if i have enough info to make a roadmap [18:46] so let us talk about road map [18:46] what do you need ? [18:47] so what needs to be done first? [18:47] formfactor [18:47] I think [18:47] other than mythtvapi, all my stuff has to wait on layouts being done [18:47] ok [18:47] so I must make scedual page [18:48] I don't think layouts depend on formfactor [18:48] you should be able to do the same lenses in desktop mode [18:48] I can just hack unity to make it into TV with out form factor if you like [18:48] that would be alot easier on me [18:49] see i think form factor could be the last thing done [18:49] i'm assuming form factor is what unity looks like when it's just sitting there open [18:50] kinda [18:50] so that could be one of the last things done then [18:50] here is screen shot of how standalone is launched (might help you understand ) http://i.stack.imgur.com/5NL5W.png [18:50] cool ^^ [18:51] since scopes/lenses should be usable across all form factors, it's independent of the form factor stuff [18:51] correct [18:51] that would appear that you can launch it just like an application, so you don't have to be running dev code on your host OS to develop and test unity trunk [18:52] so I will just hack up unity to make into * TV looking* [18:52] so we have something to work on [18:52] as far as scopes and what not [18:52] I don't even think it needs to be TV looking [18:52] I'm surely not going to need to test on a TV looking display [18:53] just new code for launcher - previews - schedule *1st* [18:53] is that what you are saying ? [18:53] just new layouts [18:54] schedule/previews [18:54] ok I will work on that this week [18:54] ok [18:54] should be able to get done in a week or 2 [18:54] I hope [18:55] tgm4883, I am glad that you are part of this team I am chicken with head cut off sometimes [18:55] ok next topic : stagging [18:55] server [18:56] It is hard for me to work with that due to the ammount of crashs [18:56] why not just use raring ? [18:56] Then I do not have crash *everytime* I open new window [18:56] everytime * [18:57] er [18:57] makes it hard because after crash of compiz window ges clear sometimes and I just amsaving work that I can not even see [18:57] s|ges|gets [18:58] not all the time but most the time [18:58] also there is alot that is not working [18:58] keyboard shortcuts [18:58] alt+~ alt+tab(sometimes) super+number(all the time) [18:59] so to put this more straight I can not use it that well becuase every single time that I complie I get seg fault [18:59] on unity that is running in bkg [19:00] causing crash s [19:00] the most annoying is the fact that I can not see the window's anymore [19:00] like someone just went and said color: "transparent" [19:01] so I have to run unity on tty and when crash alt+ctrl+f1 and re-start (this is every 4 minutes ) [19:01] so I say lets use raring aka lp:unity [19:02] https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk [19:04] Next agenda : [19:04] anyone else got anything to say ? [19:04] I'm just listening atm [19:05] thanks for showing up to this CrestedNewt_ =) [19:05] I like to see that there are people that are interested in this project [19:05] no probs - I'm just wondering how I can help as I'm not a coder [19:05] CrestedNewt_, there is alot [19:05] Documention would be one [19:06] my spelling is crazy bad [19:06] I can test things if that helps - I just want to find a platform that I can do that from [19:07] I'll talk to you later offline about what is required for Documentation but I want to help [19:07] CrestedNewt_, you have to think of the the TV as something that If Unity 3d will run on it then TV will also run on it [19:07] To put all your minds at ease, I have already spoken to a high end Hi-Fi specialist who want exclusive rights where I live [19:07] CrestedNewt_, I keep forgeting that you are a local [19:07] but I need to give them something [19:07] bobweaver, so something like this for order https://creately.com/diagram/h9n3rcm62/aqTHMbFICXZgIt5tuxRQaccGw68%3D [19:08] local as in UK :D [19:08] bobweaver, I agree, we should use raring, since that is what the dev target is :) [19:08] yeah tgm4883 that looks great maybe add previews ? and launcher [19:09] launcher would be form factor no? [19:09] no more code [19:09] welll.... [19:09] maybe [19:09] but would need new code but yeah that is part of formfactor [19:10] that looks real good tgm4883 [19:11] CrestedNewt_, you should talk to jim or will about all that stuff [19:11] +1 tgm4883 [19:11] bobweaver, updated [19:11] stuff = high end Hi-Fi specialist who want exclusive rights where I live [19:11] bobweaver, so there is 4 starting areas. I've got 1, you've got three :) [19:11] lol popey needs more j/k :P [19:13] CrestedNewt_, have you talked to Will or Jim about this ? [19:14] CrestedNewt_, if you like add that to the Mailing list might help : look to talk to Jim Hodop and Will Cooke about that [19:14] no. I don't think that this is the forum for that - have sent you a PM for later [19:14] bobweaver, well popey is doing the PPA, so his starts as soon as the first line of code is committed [19:14] Oo [19:15] * bobweaver gets to coding then popey needs more work ;-) [19:16] there is also something that I noticed [19:16] on the google + page after writing about ubuntu fr party btw thanks a ton mhall119 you are awesome others are asking for it for there partys [19:17] maybe make a package of the old 2d code so that people can install that easy ? [19:17] I could do that in like a day [19:17] I don't like that idea [19:17] that way I do not spend a week seting up things [19:17] I don't like giving people old 2d code [19:17] can I ask why [19:18] but getting the "proto type out there " is a good thing no ? [19:18] it's going to be vastly different than 3d code [19:18] and since 2d is deprecated, it's not a prototype, it's a mockup [19:19] point taken but things like the partys might be good [19:19] Ubuntu {Phone is Unity 2d still [19:19] guys - concentrate on the coding issues - I'll keep quiet :D [19:19] any work you do on 2d, is time taken away from working on 3d [19:19] tgm4883: I think it would be a good way of exciting people to contribute to the 3d port [19:19] ^^^ [19:20] I think that I sould make package [19:20] mhall119, that depends on how long it takes to get a 3d tv form factor [19:20] as long it doesn't take up too much time, and we make it clear it's not maintained or being developed [19:20] +1 [19:20] yeah it took me a while to help team fr [19:20] that is why I say this [19:20] that is the main issue [19:21] then I see on google + that there is other that also want this [19:21] mhall119, bobweaver seems to be the only one working on unity 3d tv, any time taken away is a big chunk [19:21] If I make package then they just install and I do not need to spend time with them thous more time for unity 3d [19:21] AFAIK, we haven't made a large push for help [19:21] we've made comments on the website, that is it [19:22] +1 [19:22] tgm4883: it's a risk/reward scenario, if he spends a week and we get another developer working on it as a result, it's worth it [19:22] but, if getting the 2d mockup finished doesn't take long (max 1 day), then I can see it's benefit [19:22] that is why package for it is imporant part [19:23] I can not turn down people that can show off mock work because that could bring in others [19:23] the flip side of that is, why need a package? A package, implies we want people to install and test it. Since it's basically a mockup, isn't youtube a better area? [19:23] and thus making code work lighter for me or even setting up meeting mailing list ect [19:24] it would also have a "political clout" with more focus on the TV element of Ubuntu from those who make the roadmap [19:24] further, 2d isn't even in 12.10 right? So this package we want people to install is only going to work on 12.04 and earlier (and IIRC, it only works on 11.10) [19:24] people that go to ubuntu partys are going there because they know about Ubuntu and also because of that they are going out of way. But that being said I real real real like the thoughts that tgm4883 is pushing [19:25] I my self do not want to spend a week seting up mockup for team when I can say here is ppa [19:25] * bobweaver has unity 2d on 13.04 [19:25] but not going to give out code [19:25] +1 [19:25] off topic sorry [19:26] Now if you guys really really want the 2d packaging, then go for it. I've got enough work to do getting the mythtvapi up to stuff that it will take me at least a week [19:26] yeah I am just trying to think of ways to save time for 3d coding [19:26] and I can't work on other things until we get layout done (although I could figure out what we need the video player to do) [19:27] tgm4883, mythavi can run live tv ? [19:27] My understanding is that any work done in Unity 2D is completely throwaway code as it can't be used in 3D [19:27] not true ^^ [19:27] bobweaver, I've got to discuss that with upstream mythtv [19:27] can use apps that are made in QT just like Ubuntu Phone does [19:27] see if it's still on the roadmap for 0.27 [19:27] sweet tgm4883 thanks [19:28] package is not like a must do it is just a Topic: [19:28] atm [19:28] bobweaver, mhall119 if you guys think it's something that will draw in even 1 extra developer, then go for it [19:28] because I do think we need more developers [19:28] all I would do is take fr code that I made and make it into package [19:29] that is it no extra coding just one meta package [19:29] code is done and I am not going to work on it any more [19:29] 2d ^^ \ [19:29] ok that makes me feel better then [19:31] I will only make in spare time when my mind is burnt from other coding as it is easy most of it is done [19:31] tgm4883, well everyone I do not want to work on 2d anymore only 3d [19:32] but I do not want to turn down people that ask for there partys or for people that are like "I want to see what ideas where before " or "what was framework before so I can help make framework " [19:32] on 3d that is ^^ [19:33] like you said it is point-less to make more qt-quick code [19:33] ok, I think it needs to be crystal clear that it is deprecated unity 2d code [19:34] should we make a debconf gtk that says something like that when installing ? [19:34] yes [19:34] like a pop up during install [19:34] Like how mysql ask for password [19:34] IMO it needs to be before they download [19:34] that kinda pop up [19:35] also when adding key then for ppa ? [19:35] bobweaver: I don't know about installing, not many people are going to install it unless they're going to show it off [19:35] maybe the package page could say that and also maybe a wiki ? [19:35] mhall119, +1 [19:36] everybody seeing it in Paris today wouldn't see an install-time popup [19:36] so we keep it kinda skunky [19:36] I could make a home lens in 20 seconds that could explain [19:36] yeah, I'm in favor of packing it for easy display, but nothing more [19:36] just like legal notice in 3d [19:37] that is not best idea ^^ [19:37] um.. [19:37] we just tell people then ? just like I told team fr ? [19:37] I think we use the demo as-is to get people interested, then when they want more we tell them about the porting effort and how they can get involved [19:37] I was v.explicit [19:37] yeah, like we did with fr [19:38] cool topic done [19:38] next: social [19:38]