[09:01] <popey> interesting blog post from czajkowski, i didn't even notice the "guest post" line at the top till after I'd read it
[09:32] <czajkowski> morning
[09:33] <czajkowski> popey: aye trying to get the word out about stuff happening in Ireland from people who are still doing stuff byt not ubuntu members yet
[09:33] <czajkowski> though I am gonna get Mike to go for membership soon
[09:33] <czajkowski> but he just doesnt think he does stuff
[09:33] <czajkowski> ;)
[10:13] <daubers> czajkowski: Bit like a hackspacE?
[10:13] <czajkowski> aye
[10:14] <daubers> Speaking of which, I really should finish writing my arduino course
[10:15]  * MartijnVdS installs his new (4 disk, instead of 2) NAS
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> more room for the photos!
[10:16] <daubers> Raid 10?
[10:16] <daubers> Raid 5?
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> 5
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> well "magic" -- if I replaced two smaller disks with a bigger one, it'd magically create RAID1 on the "extra"  bit and LVM it together
[10:17] <daubers> .......
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: It's a Synology NAS, it's automatic :)
[10:18] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Good thing you're not after performance!
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm after storage space ;)
[10:19] <MartijnVdS> and I like how it's "normal" Linux RAID + LVM, not some custom disk format
[10:31] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[10:32] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> gigabit++
[10:33] <brobostigon> cool :)
[10:33] <MartijnVdS> saves me so much time when transferring my data to my new NAS :)
[10:33] <brobostigon> :D
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> 45 MB/s .. not quite the full gigabit, but good enough for now
[10:48] <daubers> MartijnVdS: SMB or NFS?
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> smb
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> I haven't figured out how to map UIDs
[11:16] <MartijnVdS> oooh
[11:16] <MartijnVdS> NEED_IDMAPD=yes
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> Except it's a lot of work to set up
[12:09] <Laney> oops
[12:09] <Laney> I gave EDF a reading that was 1200kWh too high and almost ended up paying £120 extra
[12:09] <Laney> 1000kWh*
[12:10] <SpudULike> I'm sure they would have spotted the error .....
[12:10] <SpudULike> ... not.
[12:10] <Laney> no, they just issued the bill
[12:10] <Laney> next reading wouldnt have made sense though ...
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> next reading would have corrected it
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> even if they were to send a guy around to check
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> Laney: They complained about my gas reading :) "4 m³? That's impossible!"
[14:22] <ali1234> they are supposed to check it once a year even if you give them readings
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: They only have to check every 2-3 years on this side of the sea
[14:58] <Aivaras> I am thinking of buing new Sony Vaio E14, may anyone has that same model?
[16:05] <ali1234> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3257875&cid=42012165
[16:06] <ali1234> people don't put a passphrase on their ssh keys?
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> on automatic signing keys?
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> or was this not one?
[16:09] <ali1234> dunno about the freebsd key, just specifically refering to that comment
[16:15] <BigRedS> lots of people use passhpraseless keys
[16:15] <BigRedS> "I use keys so I don't need to type my password in every time"
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> I use agent so I don't have to type in my password every time..
[16:22] <SuperEngineer> Found a nice way of not having to dump Ubuntu from my old Acer netbook this week [12.04 Unity is a bit too heavy for it]
[16:23] <SuperEngineer> switched to GL dock from ppa [more unity friendly]... back to luving Ubuntu on netbook
[16:23] <SuperEngineer> [gl dock = Cairo Dock]
[16:26] <SuperEngineer> Cairo Dock latest = lastest way of doing an Ubuntu Netbook Remix ;)
[16:39] <Aivaras> What should I blame for strange mp3 playback?
[16:40] <ali1234> blame pulseaudio
[16:40] <ali1234> that's what everyone else does
[16:41] <ali1234> but seriously
[16:41] <ali1234> what software are you using to play the mp3s?
[16:41] <Aivaras> any
[16:41] <ali1234> hmm
[16:41] <Aivaras> from vlc to Banshee
[16:41] <ali1234> what about other formats?
[16:42] <Aivaras> movies with AAC seams to be OK.
[16:42] <ali1234> what exactly is strange?
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> 48000 vs 44100?
[16:43] <Aivaras> You know how old CD players in car plays?
[16:43] <ali1234> like skipping?
[16:43] <Aivaras> yeah
[16:43] <Aivaras> skipping, repeating
[16:43] <ali1234> could be PA buffer under/overruns
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> could be corrupt files
[16:43] <ali1234> which could be an audiorate problem
[16:43] <ali1234> yeah, could be corrupt files
[16:44] <Aivaras> And it seams that it happens more then I use external card then internal.
[16:44] <ali1234> if the CD skips when you rip to MP3 it sounds exactly like a skipping CD... even if you do a digital rip
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> buffer underruns.
[16:44] <ali1234> yeah i would guess buffer problems in PA
[16:44] <Aivaras> ps. files on phone and ipod works nice.
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> the same files?
[16:44] <Aivaras> yeah
[16:45] <ali1234> so its not a problem in the files. ok
[16:45] <ali1234> you could try tweaking the PA buffers
[16:45] <Aivaras> how to do that?
[16:45] <ali1234> i forgot how to do it but it helped me before
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: is the machine exceptionally slow or old?
[16:45] <ali1234> hmm... watch this video... hang on
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: or the sound card exceptionally uncommon?
[16:45] <Aivaras> Core 2 Duo
[16:46] <Aivaras> Sound Blaster play!"
[16:46] <ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC0wlaXbc_8
[16:46]  * MartijnVdS lost track of Create Labs after the AWE32 ;)
[16:46] <ali1234> listen to audio... sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's all broken up
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> Creative Labs
[16:46] <ali1234> is that how it sounds?
[16:47] <ali1234> also check in audio properties for that flickering of sinks
[16:47] <ali1234> sound settings -> applications
[16:48] <Aivaras> no flickering
[16:48] <Aivaras> one moment I will record how mine sounds
[16:50] <ali1234> core 2 duo is kinda old but not so old that i would expect it to be unable to play an mp3
[16:50] <ali1234> i remember my 486 couldn't play mp3s but when i upgraded to P133 it could
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> my 486 could do it, but I couldn't do anything else
[16:51] <ali1234> mine was not quite fast enough. no FPU i think. it couldn't play quake either
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> 486SX!
[16:51] <ali1234> the pentium used about 50% of CPU to play an mp3 :)
[16:51] <Azelphur> TF2 runs on the open source radeon drivers, this is pretty awesome.
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and intel drivers?
[16:52] <ali1234> yes, yes it is
[16:52] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: don't have any intel devices
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: heathen! ;)
[16:52] <Azelphur> xD
[16:53] <Azelphur> native TF2 makes me very tempted to sell my 570 + 630 and go for a radeon with eyefinity
[16:53] <ali1234> yeah i heard it's way better for multiple monitors
[16:54] <Azelphur> indeed, nvidia deliberately bricks the drivers
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> does nvidia still not do xrandr?
[16:54] <Azelphur> 302+ does afaik
[16:55] <Aivaras> no
[16:55] <Aivaras> 304.48 and xrandr don't work.
[16:55]  * Azelphur shrugs
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> because with xrandr, they can't keep showing you their logo in their own tool
[16:56] <Aivaras> What I hate about nvidia driver is that I can't plug ext screen without restarting xorg
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> you can
[16:57] <Aivaras> how?
[16:57] <ali1234> nvidia-settings
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> Plug in the screen, configure it, restart X,
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> disconnect screen
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> reconnect screen
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> no more X restarts required :)
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> and that
[16:58] <Aivaras> and then you disconect screen you have space you can't see where all the windows goes to :D
[16:59] <Aivaras> my sound seams to be working now :D
[17:01] <Aivaras> It seams that problems starts then I run out of ram.
[17:06] <ali1234> yeah memory exhaustion really hurts performance
[17:06] <ali1234> specifically swap i/o
[17:07] <ali1234> if you put 16GB of ram in a machine ubuntu will fly and after most of / gets cached you'll have still about 4GB free
[17:07] <ali1234> but any swapping at all basically stops all other processes
[17:08] <Aivaras> Now I have 3GB and most of the time none of them are free :D
[17:16] <SuperEngineer> Q/ can I force a vidoe mode in Ubunty?
[17:16] <SuperEngineer> [reason: trying to fully use a KVM switch to swap pooter monitor & tv - doing this causes wrong video on pooter monitor but correct option not available]
[17:22] <ali1234> sure
[17:22] <ali1234> just set modelines in xorg.conf
[17:23] <ali1234> your problem happens because kvm blocks monitor edid
[17:23] <SuperEngineer> whooppeee!  thanks ali1234
[17:24]  * SuperEngineer goes hunting & tyoing in xorg.conf
[17:25] <SuperEngineer> [& especially appreciates knowing the reason why it was failing!]
[17:26] <Aivaras> can 5 years old HDD (2.5", 250GB) maximux reading speed be ~60MB/s or that indicates problem?
[17:33] <popey> evening
[17:36] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1365510/ so where / what should i be adding
[17:37]  * SuperEngineer waves evening backatya popey
[17:37] <ali1234> you probably want to manually specify refresh rates instead
[17:38] <ali1234> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=83973
[17:39] <SuperEngineer> in the file or in monitor settings?
[17:39]  * SuperEngineer looks at thread
[17:41] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: thanks for that
[18:18] <DJones> Has anybody come across this firm before www.ashadegreener.co.uk ? Offers free solar panels, you get free electricty during the day (if the sun is out I assume), they get to keep the government incentives, up to 25 year contracts, they pay the cost of the panels, doesn't seem to be a scam, featured on watchdog as a good example
[18:45] <soreau> DJones: So they're just taking full advantage of the government incentive to profit while not actually charging the consumer? (but instead benefiting them by giving them free electricity..)
[18:46] <DJones> thats how i read it
[18:47] <soreau> Seems kinda like they're robbing the power company.. (at least from the power companies POV)
[18:47] <soreau> DJones: That's cool. Is there anything like this in .us you know of?
[18:48] <DJones> Not really robbing the power company, any excess electricity generated is fed back into the system and the power company doesn't end up providing the homeowner with electricity
[18:48] <DJones> No idea about the US schemes
[18:49] <soreau> Looks like they're installation area is fairly limited http://ashadegreener.co.uk/install-area/
[18:49] <soreau> sounds legit, I'd definitely look into it if I owned a home in that area
[18:49] <soreau> DJones: nice find, everyone loves free money ;)
[18:51] <penguin42> surely there's no sunlight in Barnsley
[18:51] <soreau> ah, so that's the catch
[18:56] <soreau> DJones: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/30/free-solar-panels-not-bargain
[19:00] <DJones> That assumes you have the £10-£20K cost of having your own panels fitted though
[19:03] <AlanBell> extend the mortgage to cover it
[19:03] <AlanBell> don't think I have enough south facing roof
[19:04] <DJones> Its my parents looking at it, they have a double fronted house which has masses of south facing roof
[19:06] <penguin42> DJones: I think I'd check whether there are any insurance issues before doing it
[19:07] <penguin42> DJones: And also what happens if you want to sell
[19:07] <DJones> Yeah, looked at that, they insure it and if you sell the house, the owner takes over getting the benefit
[19:08] <penguin42> DJones: What happens if they go under?
[19:09] <DJones> Probably somebody buys the assets & takes over getting the governement grants, if nobody buys them out, you get to keep the panels
[19:10] <penguin42> do the panels belong to them? If so do they have the right to remove them (if they were going under) and would they have to pay to return the roof to good condition
[19:11] <DJones> I presume the panels belong to them, doubt they could remove them though
[19:11] <ali1234> yeah, the feed-in tariff basically is robbing the power company
[19:12] <ali1234> they are paying like 300% the going rate for the power
[19:12] <ali1234> that's why it's better to buy your own panels
[19:12] <penguin42> ali1234: Well, more the tax payers
[19:12] <ali1234> the feed in tariff is worth 3x the electricity you pay for
[19:13] <ali1234> no, not the tax payers - all the other customers of the power company
[19:14] <penguin42> ali1234: There are some reports from Germany that solar helped reduce some of the peaks during the day, it's possible those would be the most expensive points when the power company would have to buy power (not sure if it works like that for them?)
[19:14] <ali1234> of course not
[19:14] <ali1234> they buy power several months in advance
[19:15] <penguin42> ali1234: But there is hour-by-hour trading of power
[19:15] <ali1234> yes, but that's power that was already bought several months earlier
[19:15] <penguin42> oh
[19:16] <ali1234> what happens is all the power companies guess how much power they will need in 6 months time
[19:16] <ali1234> if they guess too low they go to one of the other power companies and buy some power from them
[19:17] <penguin42> ali1234: But if they have feed in allocated to them does that mean they have less chance of having to buy from others?
[19:17] <ali1234> so day-to-day fluctuations basically cancel out across the wider network
[19:18] <ali1234> no, because again, they have to predict roughly how much they need 6 months in advance
[19:18] <ali1234> so they take into account feed in
[19:18] <penguin42> ah
[19:18] <ali1234> their estimates are not wrong by a huge amount
[19:18] <ali1234> one day they might be over capacity, another day, under
[19:19] <ali1234> so today they are buying power, tomorrow selling it
[19:19] <SuperEngineer> WHAT POWER CO'S DON'T FACTOR IN IS COST OF RECOVERY IN CASE OF NATIONAL DISATER
[19:19] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Shhh!
[19:19] <SuperEngineer> sorry for the shouting... didn't realise caps lock stilll on
[19:19] <SuperEngineer> me bad
[19:20] <ali1234> the thing is that the feed-in tariff is about 3x what the end user would pay for the same amount of electricity and the power co. has to buy it whether they need it or not
[19:21] <AlanBell> hmm
[19:21]  * AlanBell checks
[19:21] <AlanBell> southern electric standard rate is 13.42p per kWh
[19:21] <ali1234> so if you have enough solar panels to generate 1/3 of the electricity you use, getting free panels and free electricity is actually a bad deal in the long run
[19:22] <ali1234> i don't know if it's really 3x :)
[19:22] <ali1234> but it's certainly an extremely bad deal for the power co.
[19:22] <AlanBell> FiT floor price for new solar PV export tarriff (the bit the electricity company has to buy) is 4.5p /kWh
[19:23]  * SuperEngineer ponders enhancement to xchat... warn when about to send in caps ;)
[19:24] <AlanBell> FiT generation tarrif for solar PV is around 14p/kWh
[19:25] <AlanBell> so the "feed in" bit that the power company pays for is a decent deal for the power company (might not be a great deal, but it is less than they sell it for)
[19:25] <penguin42> AlanBell: to be fair that's standard rate you're comparing again
[19:25] <AlanBell> the generation tariff is not paid by the power company
[19:26] <ali1234> solar PV can get you up to 45p/kWh
[19:26] <AlanBell> http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/eligible/levels/
[19:26] <ali1234> that's if you have a new install today
[19:26] <ali1234> if you;ve had it for a year the rates are much higher
[19:27] <AlanBell> http://www.fitariffs.co.uk/FITs/principles/export/
[19:27] <ali1234> remember... there was a court case about it, because the new government wanted to drasticly cut the whole plan
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> slightly aside - but somthing I've always wondered: what would be the cost of power supply via your own diesel generator?
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> [apart from "variable"]
[19:28] <AlanBell> the question is, who pays the generation tariff?
[19:29] <ali1234> good question
[19:29] <ali1234> SuperEngineer: "a modern diesel plant will consume between 0.28 and 0.4 litres of fuel per kilowatt hour"
[19:30] <ali1234> so about 40p/kWh
[19:30] <SuperEngineer> hmmm
[19:30] <ali1234> assuming diesel costs £1-£1.50
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> ...& if one made one's own diesel? ;)
[19:32] <ali1234> a good diesel generator doesn't need much maintenance
[19:32] <ali1234> BUT you have to get a big one to get the efficiency
[19:32] <ali1234> and they are loud too
[19:32] <ali1234> basically you need a small building to put it in
[19:33] <SuperEngineer> [when the land outside your place is full of sheep - that may not be difficult]
[19:35] <ali1234> yeah, it would probably work if you live on a farm
[19:36] <SuperEngineer> [not on a farm - but by a farm - so ground cost would be a one off "extra cost"]
[19:37] <AlanBell> looks like the electricity company has to pay the generation tariff as well as the export tariff (the feed-in part)
[19:37] <AlanBell> and yes, they just screw over the other customers to get the money
[19:38] <Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nwfxx/Sound_It_Out/ worth a watch
[19:38] <SuperEngineer> Laney: a Rolex or a Timex?
[19:40] <Aivaras> Casio. :D
[19:47] <czajkowski> aloha
[19:48] <AlanBell> evening
[19:49] <Pendulum> hiya
[19:50] <czajkowski> am knackered
[19:50] <czajkowski> poxy traffic
[19:51] <AlanBell> have you been driving in it?
[19:51] <SuperEngineer> a thought: with the news that microdaft is killing MSN next year & moving to Skype only...
[19:52] <SuperEngineer> I need MSN for contact with cancer impaired releative [therefore no phone call -text only] is Skype on ubuntu ready for simple text only conversations [msn style]?
[19:52] <AlanBell> skype works fine for text chatting (never used MSN so I don't know what MSN style is)
[19:52] <AlanBell> I know what gangnam style is if that helps?
[19:52] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye we got a zip car for the day and went down to drop off one of J motorbikes
[19:53] <czajkowski> and drove a BMW 3 series for the day as I'd not been in one and he's just bought one
[19:53] <czajkowski> may not be delivered till January :(
[19:55] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: text chat is the bit concerning me... forget the "msn style" bit.  Thanks [& I want a video of AlanBell doing Gangnam Style pretty please!!!]
[19:55] <AlanBell> not. going. to. happen.
[19:56] <SuperEngineer> darn
[19:57] <ali1234> skype works more or less perfectly
[19:58] <ali1234> well, there are a few problems but they all have fixes
[19:58] <ali1234> and it's mainly problems with audio/video
[19:58]  * AlanBell notes Sam Spilsbury joining https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical
[19:59] <christel> AlanBell gangnam style. i'd pay to see that.
[19:59] <SuperEngineer> +1
[20:00] <SuperEngineer> next u-uk podcast?
[20:00] <christel> christmas special - video edition? :D
[20:00] <SuperEngineer> [seems I have started a wish list here]
[20:01] <SuperEngineer> let's all beg
[20:02] <SuperEngineer> ...£££'s to children in need foe AlanBell doing Gangnam?
[20:02] <SuperEngineer> ...or £££'sx2 for popey doing the same with him
[20:03]  * AlanBell thinks christel and SuperEngineer are way too keen on this idea
[20:03] <AlanBell> and there should be a christel and SuperEngineer gangnam video
[20:03]  * SuperEngineer imagines both now muttering/swearing under their breath
[20:05] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: It would, however, make a lovely title for next podcast
[20:06] <christel> :o
[20:11] <AlanBell> maybe one day I will do a podcast
[20:11] <christel> with bells?
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> christel: nah, he just whistles
[20:14] <AlanBell> with chickens
[20:14] <AlanBell> and free software
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> (this is illegal in most counties)
[20:14] <penguin42> AlanBell: Chickens doing gangnam style?
[20:15] <AlanBell> dunno if podcasts are still the thing or if you have to do video these days
[20:15] <AlanBell> google hangoutcasts
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> you can do both
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> I'm subscribed to a few podcasts that have both an audio version and a youtube channel where you can see people talking into microphones..
[20:16] <christel> chickens doing gangnam style! love it :D
[20:17] <ali1234> has anyone done like a linux call-in podcast? like rush limbaugh of open source?
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> Ubuntu-
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> Lugradio's voicemail section?
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> podcast next title...
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> we do it GangNamStle ;)
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> with video
[20:18] <AlanBell> that might work
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dPlkFPowCc
[20:18]  * SuperEngineer watches
[20:19]  * AlanBell thinks that chap is confused about the gender of his chicken
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytSNlHw8J8 ?
[20:21] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7snWiHvpwc&list=UU_6WXjvHxBEChRjA-ch9a7g&index=17&feature=plcp
[20:22] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: chickens with feedback loops?
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yes!
[20:22] <AlanBell> ah, that one is a boy
[20:22] <SuperEngineer> & yes, he is confused
[20:23] <ali1234> i'm never sure whether to feel bad for kubuntu developers or the chickens :/
[20:24] <AlanBell> they are on Ubuntu Server now
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> CD or DVD?
[20:25] <AlanBell> CD
[20:25] <Daviey> Good to see AlanBell embracing the cloud.
[20:26] <AlanBell> the chickens like Maize as a Service
[20:26] <SuperEngineer> going back to the chicken vid.... don't know who was more scary: the chick in the foreground ...or the chick in the background! ;)
[20:27] <penguin42> a serving of chicken with open source
[20:36] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: see my tweet of -sevveral- months ago! "I have a bottle of tomato ketchup I was given & it's got no lid. It's ok, it's free & open sauce ;)"
[21:10] <popey> Myrtti, what is possuvarrasta ?
[21:12] <Laney> I wonder why my UDS yubikey is ...
[21:12] <Laney> any guesses?
[21:13]  * popey guesses Laney means "where"
[21:13] <popey> in the ubuntu bag?
[21:13] <Laney> why it is missing? :P
[21:13] <Laney> the ubuntu bag now contains a sleeping bag, but could be
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> maybe airport security has it?
[21:14] <Laney> just found a cache of ubuntu + linaro pens
[21:16] <MartijnVdS> Tonight.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0078pw1
[21:17] <Laney> yay found it
[21:17] <Laney> safely tucked inside a pile of letter
[21:17] <Laney> s
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> I love how they put Night of the Living Dead on after 3 hours of Rolling Stones
[21:24] <Aivaras> Is 50MB/s read speed for 5 years old laptop hdd is indication of problem or it's normal state?
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> sounds normal enough
[21:24] <penguin42> yeh
[21:24] <Aivaras> oh, then it totaly sucks compared to new WD
[21:25] <penguin42> Aivaras: Welcome to progress
[21:25] <Aivaras> I was thinking that HDDs are progresing only by capacity and speed is similar.
[21:26] <Aivaras> Now I have 100 vs 50. :D
[21:26] <penguin42> Aivaras: As you up the density in the same space you get more data each time it spins
[21:26] <penguin42> Aivaras: also newer drives tend to spin a bit faster (* may not be true on laptop)
[21:27] <Aivaras> penguin42: they are 5400 RPM, while some are 7200
[21:28] <penguin42> nod
[21:28] <daftykins> what penguin42 said, aerial density increase is a speed boost
[21:28] <Aivaras> and some _server's_ hdds are 10.000 RPM
[21:28] <penguin42> Aivaras: some are 15k
[21:28] <daftykins> and consumer
[21:28] <daftykins> my VMs on my desktop here run off a 10,000rpm 300GB WD velociraptor
[21:29] <penguin42> Aivaras: However, if you don't need a very large one, treat yourself to an SSD - they're much faster
[21:29] <Aivaras> Yeah, I know. I will get one for new laptop. Old one is lucky enoth to have 750GB + 250GB HDDs :D
[21:29] <daftykins> SSDs for the OS and software, backed by large capacity mechanical drives is the way to go
[21:30] <penguin42> nod
[21:30] <Aivaras> btw guys, would sony vaio E14 wold be bad option?
[21:31] <daftykins> for what?
[21:31] <daftykins> got a link?
[21:32] <Aivaras> HECHJZ
[21:32] <Aivaras> sorry
[21:33] <Aivaras> http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vaio-e-series
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: gesundheit?
[21:33] <Aivaras> press see all
[21:33] <daftykins> ah, the word is 'areal' density
[21:33] <daftykins> my bad
[21:34] <daftykins> Aivaras: cheapest model? and what would the laptop be used for?
[21:34] <Aivaras> I am thinkig about one with i5, 1600x900 sceen and no GPU
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> Aivaras: Intel GPU, I guess then?
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> built into the CPU
[21:35] <penguin42> Aivaras: Stuff that uses Intel onboard CPU generally works well
[21:35] <Aivaras> yeah. I ment no ext gpu.
[21:36] <penguin42> Aivaras: Only laptops I know to stay away from Ubuntu at the moment are the newer Samsung's - they've got a really nasty EFI bug with Ubuntu - which is a shame because I like Sammy
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: the Chromebook is nice :)
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> even though it's ARM-based
[21:36] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: True
[21:36] <Aivaras> my old samsung works crappy with new ubuntu
[21:36] <daftykins> penguin42: prevents install / boot?
[21:36] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's just a bug on their EFI x86 ones recently; it completely bricks them
[21:36] <MartijnVdS> it's a bit wobbly (resting it on my knee sometimes auto-presses the mouse pad/button while I'm typing)
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: I had a bricked EFI Dell a few weeks ago.. couldn't even get through POST to get into setup anymore
[21:37] <penguin42> daftykins: bug 1040557
[21:37] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: nasty, what caused the brick?
[21:37] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Do you know how you did that?
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: Setting it to boot from UEFI in the BIOS
[21:37] <Aivaras> While it worked well from like 7.10 till 10.04. Now it sucks :D
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: or whatever it's all called now :)
[21:37] <daftykins> crikey
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> the pre-boot config thing
[21:38] <daftykins> can't you just boot the normal style?
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> you couldn't tell it to
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> and resetting the BIOS (shorting the mainboard pins) didn't help either
[21:38] <daftykins> ah, they started chopping that option off already eh?
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> good thing it was a work PC, just send back to dell and get a new one
[21:38] <daftykins> is that a new enough machine to be affected by all the secure boot jazz too?
[21:38] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: a lot of the BIOS EFI oimplementations look very very broken
[21:39] <penguin42> daftykins: These failings tend not to be secure boot problems
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: well I could have told it to boot old-style.. but the boot process crashed before giving the option
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> halfway through showing the Dell logo(!!)
[21:40] <daftykins> wowzer
[21:40] <ali1234> 1. buy 1000 laptops
[21:40] <ali1234> 2. brick them all
[21:40] <ali1234> 3. return for refund
[21:40] <penguin42> 4. wait 6 months
[21:40] <penguin42> 5. goto 1
[21:40] <ali1234> 4. trollface... yeah!
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> the next one I got (same model) worked
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> maybe it was just a buggy firmware revision
[21:41] <ali1234> probably
[21:42] <ali1234> and i bet there was a way to fix it anyway
[21:42] <ali1234> i repaired a few "bricked" acers before
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: probably.. but I don't know all the magic keystrokes for resetting Dells :)
[21:42] <daftykins> maybe just an update, or disabling the support as one of those bug posts says (granted, not the Dell, but anyway)
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I spent half an hour on this one
[21:42] <ali1234> normally you make a fat flash drive and put bios image on it then boot while holding a special key combo
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: except it wouldn't even get through POST
[21:43] <ali1234> doesn't matter
[21:43] <ali1234> neither did the acers
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> oh it's lower-level than that even?
[21:43] <ali1234> sure
[21:44] <ali1234> it's bad-bios-flash recovery
[21:44] <daftykins> if it's key-combo style yeah it won't need POST
[21:44] <ali1234> you don't even see anything on the screen
[21:45] <ali1234> i think it just makes it load the bios image directly to ram, and then it auto-self-repairs
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> hardcore :)
[21:45] <penguin42> yeh, I mean it depends just where the bug is and that's pot luck; if it's early enough even that's not going to work
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> I figured I'd have to flash the BIOS using SPI or JTAG
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> I've unbricked routers with those :)
[21:48] <ali1234> every computer should have a backup system in mask rom
[21:48] <ali1234> if it doesn't it's trash
[21:51] <daftykins> doesn't that require a larger chip that puts board prices up? guess such costs are negligible now?
[21:51] <ali1234> no
[21:51] <ali1234> put it in the motherboard chipset
[21:51] <ali1234> even fake chinese ipod have this
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> it doesn't have to be fancy.. just recovery-mode
[21:55] <ali1234> it can be done in under 1kb...
[21:56] <ali1234> possibly not on x86-asm though
[21:56] <ali1234> maybe 2kb there...
[21:58] <Aivaras> still chips with kbs of memmory are cheap
[22:00] <ali1234> you probably pay more for the programmer who actually knows how to write x86-asm, than for the total extra hardware cost for all the units you sell
[22:01] <daftykins> i wonder how most motherboards are implementing their 'crashfree BIOS' type setups, since nobody needs gigabyte's crazy dual-BIOS chip implementation :D
[22:02] <ali1234> the dual bios thing is great cos you can pull the chip from a bad board and plug it into the second bios slot to reflash it
[22:02] <ali1234> i keep a old gigabyte board around for this reason
[22:03] <daftykins> that should be less and less likely now though, i'd hope
[22:03] <ali1234> yeah
[22:03] <ali1234> plus most bios are soldered to the board anyway these days
[22:03] <daftykins> due to whatever it is the companies are up to
[22:03] <daftykins> aww :(
[22:04] <amoun> irc.hackthissite.org/6667
[22:04] <daftykins> ?
[22:52] <andylockran> hey all
[22:52] <andylockran> has anyone had experience with using a mobile framework (sencha/cordova/phonegap .etc) - and any recommendations?
[23:37] <^jelly^> hello :)
[23:38] <andylockran> hi