[08:07] <Tm_T> morning with haikus http://8325.org/haiku/
[21:49] <TheLordOfTime> why is there no factoid about "whining" and how its not conducive to the support environment?
[21:52] <guntbert> TheLordOfTime: because the word in itself sounds rather condescending - nothing to keep the climate good
[21:53] <holstein> yeah, the connotation... maybe a !conducive factoid stating the positives
[21:53] <TheLordOfTime> perhaps.
[21:54] <TheLordOfTime> i know of the attitude factoid for  people with the bad attitudes, and while it could apply to the people who /join and just complain/moan/whine, it doesn't quite fit...
[21:54] <holstein> !attitude
[21:55] <holstein> not bad...
[21:55]  * holstein makes a note
[21:56] <TheLordOfTime> the guidelines don't specifically touch on the "non-conducive" part of complaining
[21:56] <guntbert> TheLordOfTime: we mostly try to be not judging about others
[21:56] <TheLordOfTime> hence why i didn't pull that factoid out
[21:56] <TheLordOfTime> guntbert, i agree, that's what the point is, but...
[21:57] <TheLordOfTime> asking questions about how to fix something related to a problem, and just purely griping about the problems are far from each other, and the difference is somewhat easy to tell if you've been around here long enough
[21:57] <guntbert> TheLordOfTime: I'd prefer to not see the word "whining" at all in #ubuntu
[21:57] <TheLordOfTime> (the first one, of course, implies some level of complaining about a problem)
[21:58] <holstein> i think there are a lot of people shuffling around and finding frustration. missing things and feeling like "their ubuntu" is gone... not that it exuses any behavior
[21:59] <TheLordOfTime> guntbert, i agree, that word should not appear in channel, but would you agree that dreambox was only complaining / whining in #ubuntu without any care to actaully try to workaround or fix the problems?
[21:59] <holstein> its challenging... and im sure its not a new phenomenon.. i find it more difficult to keep a positive fram
[21:59] <holstein> frame*
[21:59] <guntbert> TheLordOfTime: I believe that kind of behaaviour is best met with an individual approach by someone who is in good temper at that time :)
[21:59] <TheLordOfTime> guntbert, indeed.
[21:59] <TheLordOfTime> ... oops, i broke my networking again :/
[22:00]  * TheLordOfTime walks off to fix it for the third time today
[22:00] <AlanBell> stop whining about your networking TheLordOfTime
[22:00] <guntbert> TheLordOfTime: yes, he was, but calling him that didn't improve his attitude  a bit
[22:00] <AlanBell> ;)
[22:01] <genii-around> "We understand your frustration. Disparaging monologues on your current issue however does not make the volunteers more inclined to assist."
[22:01] <holstein> lol!... i said "/path/to/foo/" a few days ago, and the user claimed i had called him a fool
[22:02] <holstein> i do like mentioning the word "volunteer".. i think folks have a vibe that this is commercial tech-support..
[22:03] <k1l> yep. official support channel sounds like there a canonical guys sitting and waiting for customers
[22:04] <holstein> and you've got a product that is malfuntioning and "you guys should fix this right now!" ;)
[22:04] <guntbert> genii-around: wonderfully put :)