=== fenris is now known as Guest70212 === Guest70212 is now known as ejat === fenris is now known as Guest50405 === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|otp === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|otp === mmrazik|otp is now known as mmrazik === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|lunch === doko_ is now known as doko === mmrazik|lunch is now known as mmrazik === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|otp === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === mmrazik|otp is now known as mmrazik === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [14:02] !dmb-ping [14:02] bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping [14:02] hi [14:03] warning, I'm in the middle of a "planned" outage at work, so my attention is divided [14:05] anyone else? we are not enough even with Laney [14:07] * stgraber waves [14:07] my phone thinks the meeting is in an hour though [14:08] DST? [14:08] and it's wrong ;) [14:08] yeah, apparently my calendar event was on some weird timezone instead of UTC [14:09] who owns the event? [14:09] (do we know?) [14:09] barry [14:10] tumbleweed: or you if we skip unavailable members [14:11] I meant the fridge calendar event. The person who put it there can change its timezone [14:11] ups. dunno === alourie is now known as alourie_lunch [14:12] bdrung: aren't you the chair after barry? [14:13] I thought we went in the order of https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members [14:13] tumbleweed: i was chair when stgraber wasn't attending [14:14] so i will be skipped once [14:14] wow, I am next then [14:14] congratulations :) [14:14] ok, so shall we get this rolling, we're pretty late already [14:14] :-) [14:14] #startmeeting Developer Membership Board [14:15] Meeting started Mon Nov 19 14:14:59 2012 UTC. The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [14:15] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: [14:15] #topic Review of previous action items === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items [14:15] stgraber: is the wiki up to date, there? [14:15] they all belong to micahg, as usual: [14:15] micahg to document the zentyal packageset [14:15] micahg to ask docs people if they want to apply for a packageset [14:15] tumbleweed: yep [14:16] so, moving on [14:17] #topic Core Developer Application for Wookey === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Core Developer Application for Wookey [14:17] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wookey/DeveloperApplication [14:17] wookey: would you care to introduce your application? [14:18] erm, yes. [14:18] I've been a DD for over a decade, and recently have been doing some Ubuntu work as side-effect of being in Linaro [14:19] I've doing things that affect $everything: cross-building, and multiarch [14:19] And when debian is frozen it makes sense to upload things to ubuntu directly [14:20] I've been filing patches for some time now and have been encouraged to apply for actual membership so I can do stuff without having to pester others for Ubuntu uploads [14:20] Obviously I can do Debian uploads as required already [14:21] that's the core of it [14:21] thanks [14:21] questions for wookey? [14:22] currently I'm doing the arm64 bootstrap, mostly in Ubuntu because the multiarch state is much more advanced here [14:22] sorry folks, system problems this morning :( [14:24] look - shiny results: http://people.linaro.org/~wookey/buildd/quantal-arm64/sbuild-ma/status-bootstrap.html [14:25] I assume everyone is still busy re-reading your appplication (or twiddling their thumbs or something) [14:25] wookey: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce? [14:25] Or there are no questions :-) [14:26] tumbleweed: I don't think so [14:26] Easy enough to fix [14:26] wookey: did any of ubuntu / lp systems require two names? [14:26] i just checked xdeb. the current situation looks good. [14:26] thanks, it's where freezes etc are announced [14:26] xnox: not that I recall - pleasingly little agravation on that front [14:27] wookey: ok cool. [14:27] yes xdeb is in maintenance mode now really [14:27] (for context http://wookware.org/name.html ) [14:27] multiarch is the one true way forward [14:29] OK. subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce [14:29] wookey: you have experience in developing software for debian, ubuntu, and linaro. how would you compare the workflows, and what do you think would be the 1-3 most important things to do to improve developing and sharing s/w across all three communities? [14:30] The presuambly tell me when we enter 'stopped syncing' and 'feature freeze' etc? [14:30] Hmm. potentially long-answer question :-) [14:30] I was surprsied how much difference there is in internal process between debian and Ubuntu. [14:30] wookey: agreed [14:31] That part is almost completely different in many ways [14:31] Linaro was effectively just camping on ubuntu processes/machinery for 1st two years, but is now trying to separate itself [14:31] I think the sharing part is much more about culture than process [14:32] I pretty-much ignored Ubuntu for years, probably like many DDs as 'just another derivative' and not really anything I had to take much notice of beyond getting occaisional patch back [14:32] And that was just habit. [14:33] what changed then? [14:33] BUt once I had a reason to use it I found some thing easier to get done in Ubuntu than debian, due to very-fast patch turnaround [14:33] I got a job where a) official desktop was Ubuntu (ARM), and images being produced were ubuntu (linaro) [14:34] Now that I understand the Ubuntu processes I view Debian and Ubuntu as essentially 'the same thing' [14:34] And just do work fixes in both as much as possible, with a bias to doing it in Debian first as that's less work all round [14:35] I think zak has done a great job of getting Debian and Ubuntu to ignore each other less [14:35] wookey: quick question: when you work on ubuntu packages, do you generally apt-get source or bzr branch? [14:36] So I guess the answer to the question is 'nurture the projects that encourage upstreaming and cross-distro work' [14:36] I'm old-fashion - I apt-get source [14:36] I was just reading the merging page and thing that maybe I should look at useing that work-flow [14:36] thinking [14:37] Because it'll be easier to keep moving patches forward that aren't fully upstremaed yet. [14:37] wookey: cool, thanks for your answers (there's no right or wrong answer, i am just curious :) [14:37] wookey: So, let's say you want to get mythtv into precise-updates on the 15th of January 2013 for a fix that's just been published upstream. What would you do and what can you do? [14:37] It is hard work keeping track of patches in quantal/raring/unstable/experiemntal [14:38] I'd go read the ubuntu developer docs, and then probably ask someone to check [14:38] One good thing about ubuntu is that process is _much_ better documented than debian [14:39] how much do you currently know about the SRU process? did you do any SRU? [14:40] I have done a couple of SRUs yes [14:40] after this question is complete, we'll go to a vote [14:40] ok, so if you get a fix into Debian experimental that you want into precise-updates, where should you upload that fix? [14:42] sorry someon asking questions here [14:42] I was wondering today whether Ubuntu ever pulls from experiemntal. The docs say only from testing or unstable [14:43] So I presume you never do that. [14:43] well, you can manually sync from experimental, syncpackage lets you do that, we just don't do it automatically [14:44] so let's say you have the new version into raring (as it's where it needs to land first anyway), where do you go from there to get it into precise-updates? [14:44] we often sync from experimental when debian is in freeze [14:44] OK, so I guess I'd file an SRU requesting tosync/merge the version from experiemental [14:45] tumbleweed: I guess we're out of time, we probably should vote now [14:45] yeah [14:45] I don't know. I'd ask #release on IRC [14:46] #voters stgraber barry tumbleweed bdrung Laney [14:46] Current voters: Laney barry bdrung stgraber tumbleweed [14:46] #vote grant wookey core-dev rights? [14:46] Please vote on: grant wookey core-dev rights? [14:46] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [14:47] +0 [Not satisfied regarding the knowledge of Ubuntu processes but on the other hand, I'm sure wookey will ask before doing anything he doesn't know] [14:47] +0 [Not satisfied regarding the knowledge of Ubuntu processes but on the other hand, I'm sure wookey will ask before doing anything he doesn't know] received from stgraber [14:48] +0 [more familiarity w/ubuntu process would be good, but i think by asking lots of question for bits you don't know, you'll be okay] [14:48] +0 [more familiarity w/ubuntu process would be good, but i think by asking lots of question for bits you don't know, you'll be okay] received from barry [14:50] +1 [ I'm also concerned about the ubuntu process knowledge, I am fairly confident that this wouldn't be dangerous to the project, but would expect more from a core-dev ] [14:50] +1 [ I'm also concerned about the ubuntu process knowledge, I am fairly confident that this wouldn't be dangerous to the project, but would expect more from a core-dev ] received from tumbleweed [14:50] err that was supposed to be +0, edting ftl [14:50] +0 [14:50] +0 received from tumbleweed [14:51] bdrung: ? === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw [14:53] +0 [ same option as the other voters ] [14:53] +0 [ same option as the other voters ] received from bdrung [14:53] #endvote [14:53] Voting ended on: grant wookey core-dev rights? [14:53] Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4 [14:53] Deadlock, casting vote may be used [14:53] pish, meetingology [14:54] wookey: I'm sorry we couldn't accept your application right now. I suggest getting a little more experience with the procedures around SRUs and freezes [14:54] yeah. fair enough. It wasn;t me that said I was ready :-) [14:55] hope to see you again soon [14:55] I've usually dealing with unstable /letest, so have not worried about SRUs much [14:55] #topic Dmitry Shachnev's PPU application for retext and unity-mail === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Dmitry Shachnev's PPU application for retext and unity-mail [14:55] Hi barry, bdrung, stgraber, tumbleweed! [14:56] hi mitya57 [14:56] mitya57: hi, we're able to run over time a little [14:56] wookey: I have no doubt that you are ready from a technical point of view but the freezes and SRU processes are important when contributing to the Ubuntu project so I hope to see you apply again soon [14:56] so, we should be able to process your application [14:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DmitryShachnev/PPUApplication [14:56] mitya57: please introduce yourself and your application [14:56] OK [14:57] I'm developer of ReText editor and some other smaller projects, usually written in Python [14:57] In Ubuntu, I'm involved with my apps, their dependencies, and some python stuff [14:57] Last week I was, for example, adding/fixing dep-8 tests for pygments, python-markdown and nose [14:57] Earlier this cycle I was involved with Python 3.3 transition of sphinx/python-docutils [14:58] I'm also Ubuntu packaging guide contributor and do some other random things [14:58] ... and I'm also Debian maintainer (since this spring) and member of some teams there (Python + JavaScript) === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [14:59] I would like to start with these two packages because these are my "oldest" ones and I've done more uploads for them than for anything else [15:00] I saw very little discussion of your Debian work on your application. For reference - http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Dmitry%20Shachnev [15:01] tumbleweed, in fact, I'm having 4 unsponsored items in Debian right now, so that list will grow soon [15:01] (I hope) [15:01] :) [15:01] any questions for mitya57? [15:01] mitya57: why is unity-mail a native package? [15:02] bdrung, because it was written exclusively for Ubuntu and I maintain packaging in the same branch as source code [15:03] mitya57: maybe one day unity can be deployed on other systems than Ubuntu (e.g. Debian). will it be still good to have it as native package? [15:04] bdrung, I think it is possible to change format in future [15:04] but right now I don't see any need [15:04] * Laney phases in [15:04] Hi Laney [15:05] mitya57: how painful has it been working with quilt in udd branches? [15:05] barry: very painful (that's what i remember from my last try) [15:05] barry: for example, patches are stored applied by default but when I create a new patch, it doesn't get applied by default [15:06] mitya57: i know ;} [15:06] and also there are some packages whose maintainers don't care about making them build twice in a row, [15:06] so when you clone such a package from udd it won't build [15:06] mitya57: perhaps the build tools should help enforce that? [15:06] "nose" is my recent example [15:07] barry, of course, but I meant it's not perfect _by default_ [15:09] mitya57: in the meantime, we could improve the docs i suppose. i can't recall anywhere where this issue is even discussed (though it comes up in sponsor reviews) [15:11] mitya57: where you paying attention earlier, and did you subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce? [15:11] tumbleweed: I am subscribed [15:11] "where" — you mean Debian vs Ubuntu? [15:12] If so, Ubuntu of course :) [15:12] *were [15:12] * tumbleweed is tired, long day of fighting fires at work [15:13] mitya57: so, when do we expect you to come back with a MOTU application? [15:14] tumbleweed, If I were writing my application today, I would apply for MOTU. But I was writing it in September (and today was the first slot suitable for me)... [15:14] ... so I decided to leave it as is. [15:15] it'd be nice to see work on a wider range of packages, for that [15:16] tumbleweed, that's in progress :) [15:16] as a DM, I assume you're already familiar with the upload process? [15:17] Yes, I am. The only difference is that our uploads are source-only, right? [15:18] yup [15:18] and you've the Ubuntu tools for syncing, finding merges you need to do, etc? [15:18] you've *seen* [15:18] yes, I have seen that [15:18] bdrung: you have a question? [15:18] mitya57: How does it come that you do your work in Debian first? [15:19] (besides the Ubuntu-only unity-mail) [15:19] bdrung, I had read that the Debian is primary place to upload new packages to, so I went there... [15:19] good to see that we communicate it clearly :) [15:19] ah, you said "do", not "did" [15:20] The ideal workflow for me is getting a package uploaded to Debian, and then getting it synced [15:21] the tool syncpackage is handy for doing the sync [15:21] bdrung, I meant that when I said I was familiar with the tools [15:22] ok, looks like we're done with questions [15:22] #vote grant mitya57 PPU rights on retext and unity-mail? [15:22] Please vote on: grant mitya57 PPU rights on retext and unity-mail? [15:22] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [15:22] +1 looking forward to you coming back to apply for MOTU soon with a little more experience [15:23] +1 looking forward to you coming back to apply for MOTU soon with a little more experience received from Laney [15:23] +1 [15:23] +1 received from bdrung [15:23] +1 [15:23] +1 received from barry [15:23] +1 [15:23] +1 received from tumbleweed [15:24] stgraber? [15:28] +1 [15:28] +1 received from stgraber [15:29] #endvote [15:29] Voting ended on: grant mitya57 PPU rights on retext and unity-mail? [15:29] Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [15:29] Motion carried [15:29] mitya57: btw, do you want to become an uploader (in Debian) of ubuntu-packaging-guide? [15:29] mitya57: welcome, we hope to see you back soon for MOTU rights [15:29] #topic any other business? === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: any other business? [15:30] bdrung, I won't be against that [15:30] \o/ thanks everybody! [15:30] mitya57: feel free to add yourself to the list in the bzr branch. [15:30] next chair: barry [15:31] backup: cody-somerville [15:31] anything else? [15:31] reducing the after-meeting-things-to-do list [15:32] can we reduce or automate the paperwork? [15:33] not trivially, that i can think of [15:35] looks like we've run out of things to say [15:35] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [15:35] Meeting ended Mon Nov 19 15:35:37 2012 UTC. [15:35] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-19-14.14.moin.txt [15:35] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-19-14.14.html [15:35] thanks everyone [15:36] tumbleweed: thanks [15:36] stgraber: you'll add the PPU rights? [15:36] * tumbleweed added him to the ubuntu-dev team [15:37] tumbleweed: yep, sometimes later today (sorta busy atm) [15:41] congratulations mitya57! [15:42] danke dholbach! [15:42] :-) [15:43] tumbleweed, mitya57: PPU added [15:44] thanks once again! [15:44] I will test it soon for new unity-mail :) [15:44] awesome :) === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|otp === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ === mmrazik|otp is now known as mmrazik === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [18:01] hi! [18:02] hello! [18:02] hi [18:02] #startmeeting [18:02] Meeting started Mon Nov 19 18:02:07 2012 UTC. The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:02] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [18:02] The meeting agenda can be found at: [18:02] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting [18:02] [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report [18:02] I'll go first [18:03] hi! [18:03] it is a short week for me. I'm off Thu and Fri [18:03] I'm on triage [18:04] I have a pending update and a small regression fix I need to do for python-django [18:04] I also am working on packaging for secure boot db/dbx updates [18:04] I think that is it for me [18:04] mdeslaur: you're up [18:05] I'm on community this week [18:05] and I'm currently working on a python-keyring fix, that is turning into a can of worms [18:05] I've almost caught all the worms though [18:05] after that, I'll continue going down the list [18:05] I have a virt-manager work item I hope to poke at this week too [18:05] that's it for me [18:06] sbeattie: you're up [18:06] I have a short week this week, I'm off weds through fri [18:06] I'm still poking at the display manager apparmor stuff [18:07] I also am slowly reviewing jjohansen's parser patches [18:07] that's it for me [18:07] tyhicks: I think micahg's not here at the moment, so you're up [18:07] no, I'm here [18:07] oops, sorry [18:08] I've got the Mozilla releases tomorrow and then webkit [18:08] and short week (off Thu) [18:08] tyhicks: you're up [18:08] Short week for me as I'm off Thursday and Friday [18:08] I'm finally wrapping up the audit debdiff for the audit MIR [18:09] I have a small bit of testing left for the ecryptfs-utils SRU (didn't make much progress on it last week) [18:09] and the apparmor dbus work [18:09] that's it [18:09] jjohansen: you're up [18:09] short week for me as well, I am off Thursday and Friday [18:10] I am going to finish getting the latest revision of the new interface and rcu locking work up for people to look at and play with (sticking it in a ppa) [18:10] and then I will try to get the labeling part of the stacking work up for people to play with before the end of the week [18:10] bunch of turkey eaters [18:11] that is it for me, sarnold your up [18:11] Mmmmm turkey [18:11] short week for me, off thursday, will be eating mashed potatos and who knows what else... mmm. [18:12] * micahg won't be having turkey, but that's another story [18:12] still working on the perl update, some new tests added with cgi.pm security patches are failing during builds, it will take some investigation, as the problem wasn't obvious. [18:12] I'll answer the testing team's question about uinput today, here's hoping that simple facl are sufficient.. [18:13] slightly off-topic, I installed my pandaboard this weekend :) fun little thing. [18:13] jdstrand: here's the token! [18:13] sarnold: let me know if you get stuck with the perl stuff [18:13] mdeslaur: thanks [18:13] [TOPIC] Highlighted packages === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages [18:13] The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. [18:13] See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved. [18:13] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freeciv.html [18:13] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ziproxy.html [18:13] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/glusterfs.html [18:14] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smarty3.html [18:14] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pgbouncer.html [18:14] [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions [18:14] sarnold: I believe the old thinkfinger packages used to override permissions for uinput, maybe you can take a look at that === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions [18:14] Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss? [18:15] mdeslaur: ooh, quite old, edgy. :) thanks. [18:17] sarnold: could have been in a ubuntu-specific patch also, can't remember [18:18] mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks! [18:18] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [18:18] Meeting ended Mon Nov 19 18:18:20 2012 UTC. [18:18] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-19-18.02.moin.txt [18:18] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-19-18.02.html [18:18] thanks jdstrand! [18:18] jdstrand: thanks [18:18] thanks jdstrand [18:18] thanks! [18:18] thanks jdstrand :) === yofel_ is now known as yofel === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_aw === robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk