[08:10] <jagginess> hi
[14:06] <ubuntuStudioUser> I was going to try out Ubuntu Studio and was debating between 12.04 and 12.10. The last time I installed Ubuntu Studio was 10.04. Would anyone recommend one over the other between 12.04 and 12.10?
[14:07] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: The main difference between the two is some changes in the menu, some additional preinstalled packages, and a newer pulseaudio
[14:07] <ubuntuStudioUser> Does it matter whether one is LTS or whatever?
[14:07] <zequence> There is a bug in both, which leaves jackdbus running in the background, when trying to stop it with qjackctl
[14:08] <zequence> I don't think it matters, if it's LTS or not. Not in any major way, anyway
[14:08] <ubuntuStudioUser> Funny you mention that.. I had that bug way back too
[14:08] <ubuntuStudioUser> I got so used to killall -9 jack
[14:08] <zequence> Yea, same here
[14:08] <ubuntuStudioUser> in the terminal
[14:08] <zequence> There's a bugfix on the way, but it may take some time to get it in
[14:09] <ubuntuStudioUser> I love that they went with XFCE
[14:09] <ubuntuStudioUser> even though I don't have much experience with it..
[14:09] <ubuntuStudioUser> I just don't like the direction vanilla has gone
[14:09] <zequence> I'm a Ubuntu Studio dev, but I use Gnome3 myself :)
[14:09] <ubuntuStudioUser> Oh..
[14:09] <ubuntuStudioUser> sorry then.
[14:09] <ubuntuStudioUser> was "dissing" it
[14:09] <zequence> It was the right choice though, to go with XFCE
[14:10] <ubuntuStudioUser> Yeah, not so resource hungry
[14:10] <zequence> Well, on that part, I don't think there's much of a difference
[14:10] <zequence> Gnome3 is pretty fast
[14:10] <ubuntuStudioUser> I would also like to say, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WORKING ON UBUNTU STUDIO
[14:10] <ubuntuStudioUser> really?
[14:10] <ubuntuStudioUser> the all caps is because I can't say that loud enough
[14:11] <ubuntuStudioUser> I really do love the work you guys do
[14:11] <zequence> XFCE was a safer choice, as the other two were so new, and got so much negative attention, as well as being buggy, etc
[14:11] <ubuntuStudioUser> I guess I'll give the latest a go.. (I mean 12.10)
[14:11] <zequence> The community seems to prefer XFCE
[14:11] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: Do you usually use any PPAs with US?
[14:11] <zequence> Like, KXstudio?
[14:12] <ubuntuStudioUser> no.. I've never tried that
[14:12] <ubuntuStudioUser> what does it have?
[14:12] <ubuntuStudioUser> some bleeding edge stuff?
[14:12] <ubuntuStudioUser> I'm really anticipating Ardour3.. but I know this may not be the place to discuss that..
[14:13] <ubuntuStudioUser> One thing that I can say that turned me off to Unity and GnomeShell is that I can't move the panel to the bottom, or the window buttons to the right.
[14:14] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: kxstudio PPA does have more up to date packages, but only one type of jack (no jack1). So, adding that will change some things substantially
[14:15] <zequence> (if I'm not terribly mistaking)
[14:15] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: jackdbus is fixed there, at least
[14:15] <zequence> I just got my bugfix patch accepted into 13.04, so hopefully I can soon get it into both 12.10 and 12.04 :)
[14:15] <ubuntuStudioUser> Great!
[14:16] <ubuntuStudioUser> Do you know of the kernel differences between 12.04 and 12.10? if any?
[14:16] <zequence> Not my code, however (it's a couple of commits from the original jack2 source, pointed out to me by falktx - the guy behind kxstudio)
[14:17] <smartboyhw> ubuntuStudioUser, in 12.04 we use 3.2 kernel, in 12.10 we use 3.5
[14:17] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: The kernel is more or less the same, performance wise. It's not as fast as some older kernels, and that is not due to it being -lowlatency, instead of -rt. Rather it has to do with the vanilla kernel being less responsive since around 3.0
[14:20] <ubuntuStudioUser> I remember mucking around with realtime priorities back in hardy, but I didn't really know what I was doing and had to hard reset all the time.. I wish I was smart enough back then to go on IRC. Seems like a great and helpful community
[14:21] <ubuntuStudioUser> I will see how it operates "out of the box" I guess
[14:22] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: realtime privilege is out of the box.
[14:23] <ubuntuStudioUser> Yeah.. I think it may have been even back then.. but I blindly followed some tutorials getting into some low level stuff that I didn't really understand. I learned some stuff..mostly how much I don't know
[14:24] <ubuntuStudioUser> It gave me a good appreciation for the work that devs like you do.
[14:24] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: I think some version of Ubuntu did not offer realtime privilege, and of course, it's not easy to set up when you don't know what to do. Recently, it's not that hard. Just install jackd, say yes to realtime, and add yourself to audio group
[14:25] <zequence> Then there are some tweaks you can do, however, Ubuntu Studio just comes with a couple of extras
[14:25] <zequence> The rtirq script is one, which only needs -lowlatency to work
[14:26] <ubuntuStudioUser> when you put the dash before it like "-lowlatency" or "-rt" is that referring to compilation options? or some runtime switch?
[14:29] <zequence> ubuntuStudioUser: linux-lowlatency, linux-rt
[14:29] <zequence> The name of the kernels
[14:29] <zequence> there's no linux-rt in the kernel
[14:30] <zequence> In the repo, I mean :)
[14:30] <ubuntuStudioUser> I'm stupid..I thought realtime and lowlatency were the same
[14:30] <zequence> There's no linux-rt in the repo.
[14:31] <ubuntuStudioUser> Is the idea that lowlatency is good enough, and more stable?
[14:31] <zequence> linux-lowlatency is an exact copy of linux-generic, with one small difference. It's diffing in a couple of config options, making it more responsive
[14:31] <ubuntuStudioUser> or "preempt" or something?
[14:31] <ubuntuStudioUser> oh
[14:32] <zequence> Much of the realtime patch has been imported into the main linux vanilla source, so even the vanilla kernel is capable of low latency operation, if configured for it
[14:33] <zequence> linux-lowlatency is however not the same as linux-rt, but in practice, it's an adequate replacement (and I hope newer kernels will improve, cause both -lowlatency and -rt has been worse in performance for a while now)
[14:33] <ubuntuStudioUser> when you say "performance" I assume you are referring to lowest latency without xruns
[14:34] <zequence> Yea
[14:34] <ubuntuStudioUser> ok
[14:34] <ubuntuStudioUser> hm
[14:34] <ubuntuStudioUser> what do you think is the best for production?
[14:35] <zequence> I use linux-lowlatency
[14:35] <zequence> I do more or less only live audio processing, so reliable operation at low latencies is important for me
[14:36] <ubuntuStudioUser> Yeah, that's what I'm interested in
[14:36] <zequence> And, I find linux-lowlatency adequate for that. I will however probably be using version 2.6.37 for my personal use :)
[14:36] <ubuntuStudioUser> is that lucid, or hardy or something? or is that just the latest with the older kernel?
[14:40] <zequence> 2.6.37 was in Natty, I think
[14:40] <zequence> 10.10
[14:41] <ubuntuStudioUser> Do you prefer that for the Kernel, or just what's in the distro (gui/etc)?
[14:42] <zequence> Just the kernel. It's the most suitable for low latencies that I have tried, since the linux-rt from 9.10
[14:44] <ubuntuStudioUser> You can't just mix and match anything, can you? This is probably a noob question.. and I do appreciate all the patience you're having with all my questions by the way.. but can you use the 2.6.37 kernel with the latest release?
[14:50] <holstein> ubuntuStudioUser: you are welcome to try it
[14:50] <holstein> ubuntuStudioUser: i would expect issues.. though i might try it myself at some point
[14:50] <holstein> ubuntuStudioUser: most folks dont need low-latency though..
[14:51] <smartboyhw> ubuntuStudioUser, that is NOT RECOMMENDED
[14:51] <holstein> if you arent doing realtime effects, or running a software synth, who cares if it takes half a second to hear audio when you press play
[14:52] <smartboyhw> ubuntuStudioUser, well I
[14:52] <holstein> that being said, i have nice latency with the latest stock kernels
[14:52] <smartboyhw> am not even sure if it is possible or not...
[14:52] <smartboyhw> holstein, good
[14:52]  * smartboyhw uses linux-lowlatency here
[14:53] <ubuntuStudioUser> well.. I'm going to try it.. and we'll see what happens. hopefully, I'll be back to report my progress!
[14:53] <ubuntuStudioUser> thanks for all the help guys!
[14:53] <holstein> sure, but why?
[14:53] <ubuntuStudioUser> I mean.. just try 12.10
[14:53] <holstein> if i may ask.. i know i can say why i would like to try an older kernel
[14:54] <ubuntuStudioUser> without any changes
[14:54] <holstein> OH... yeah... i would
[14:54]  * smartboyhw would like a 4.10 system using a 3.7-rc6 kernel rather than a 13.04 using a 2.6.37 kernel..
[15:04] <zequence> I don't actually know what could go wrong in using an older kernel. The times I've used one, I've had no problems
[15:04] <zequence> But, that's not exactly being scientific
[15:05] <holstein> yeah, i wouldnt be scared of trying it.. i would just expect issues
[15:07] <zequence> I'm just wondering what those issues might be
[15:08] <zequence> I asked about it on the kernel channel. Hoping someone coiuld shed some light on it
[15:08] <zequence> I've heard rumors of issues, but never actually seen one
[15:08] <holstein> sure.. i would imagine since the other packages are expecting a different kernel, there could be some issues
[15:08] <holstein> a firmware package... something like a proprietary blob that would cause x not to start.. nothing that you couldnt handle
[15:08] <zequence> Well, I guess there might be an issue with newer graphic drivers. Stuff that isn't baked into the kernel, but that's like one thing
[15:09] <zequence> Theoretically there might be problems with some firmware, but in most cases I think those have not changed much for years
[15:10] <zequence> All though, since the proprietary drivers is built against the actual kernel, I don't think there would be any issues after all
[15:10] <holstein> i guess i would try it... im just saying, i dont want someone joining the channel saying "im running kernel 2.6.x in ubuntu 12.10 and its your fault my system isnt booting"
[15:10] <zequence> And as for the firmware, the safe way would be to download packages for that kernel version
[15:11] <holstein> i dont think its an issue for advanced/learned users who can either fix it, or understand the level of support
[15:11] <zequence> I think if someone would start adding a 2.6.37 kernel to 12.10, that person would need to find out how to do that, and in that case, probably knows a bit about linux
[15:13] <smartboyhw> The problem is: There is backporting for newer kernels to older releases, but there are not "frontporting" for older kernels to newer releases...
[15:14] <zequence> Yea, well. I'm still wondering what the problem would be..
[22:29] <studio-user368> hi
[22:30] <studio-user368> my name is jorch, please I want to know where can i find a manual or something about ardour and audacity