ali1234is there some problem in virtualbox on 12.10 where guests don't get correct dns entries?00:03
popeyali1234, not seen that00:21
n1md4how can i change the keyboard layout in bash01:12
n1md4it's set to US by mistake01:12
MooDoomorning all07:29
=== TheOpenSourcerer is now known as theopensourcerer
diploMorning all08:01
BigRedSn1md4: I'm sure you preferred US? When using qwerty...08:05
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:18
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
JamesTaitGood morning all! :)09:31
mungojerryanyone find inkscape has a difficult learning curve?09:34
mungojerryjust wanna edit some vector art09:35
bigcalmBack from the vet already?09:40
dogmatic69mungojerry: I figured it out pretty much through trial and error. What you want to do?09:43
mungojerrydogmatic69, seems a bit fiddly to do anything. removing stuff seems to leave a white space rather than transparency behind09:48
mungojerrygonna play a bit at lunchtime09:48
theopensourcerermungojerry: There is a decent on-line book from a chap called Tamvong (or something similar) that covers most aspects. But I do know what you mean. It's a complicated tool.09:48
theopensourcererI do like it though.09:49
dogmatic69mungojerry: if there is white behind something that means there is another element or its the page background.09:50
theopensourcererYou can change the background colour09:50
dogmatic69mungojerry: I use inkscape a lot, and generally downloaded vector art is done badly. Loads of duplicated elements on top of each other.09:51
IvankaMorning JamesTait :-)09:52
JamesTaitHey Ivanka! :)09:52
* Ivanka just realised that she never added ubuntu-uk back in when she rebuilt her machine09:52
* Ivanka was slack09:53
n1md4BigRedS: True, but there's some oddities that creep in I've noticed, if you don't stick with qwerty.  Therefore, I match the keyboard layout on install, but ''obviously'' switch to dvorak once in X ;)09:53
AlanBellhi Ivanka o/10:04
Ivankahi AlanBell :-)10:04
SuperMattmorning all10:06
SuperMattlinuxmint is looking very pretty these days :o10:06
popeySuperMatt, i like the minimal look of elementary10:10
AlanBellany laptop recommendations?10:32
AlanBellpreferably no windows tax, midrange costs10:32
diplopopey: Have you tried elementary - Saw a blog ( maybe you posted ) about it the other day10:33
diploDebating giving it a go10:33
popeyAlanBell, thinkpad, always thinkpad10:34
AlanBellwhere from?10:35
popeydiplo, briefly10:35
popeylenovo online store10:35
AlanBelllinuxemporium just has old models I think10:35
popeywith the magic 20% off code10:35
AlanBellhttp://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/range/novatechnfinityn1402.html thoughts and opinions on this one?10:43
einonmNovatech are pretty good - I've bought 4 laptops from them in the past.10:44
theopensourcererNo Windows Tax.10:44
einonmThe only thing I would say is that the cases are a little cheap and feel flimsy10:44
theopensourcererThey use Clevo IIRC10:44
soreauWhat about the new cheap google laptops?10:44
soreauchromebook or whatever they're calling it10:45
dwatkinsThe Samsung Chromebook looks rather like a Mac, unsurprisingly.10:46
theopensourcererLove the second comment on the Novatech one: "Runs perfectly with Windows 7 and Ubuntu (dual booting)."10:46
dwatkinstheopensourcerer: I'd want to know I could still play my none-Wine-compatible games ;)10:47
soreauI will assume that's not using GPT partitioning scheme10:47
theopensourcererIt's for *work*10:47
theopensourcererIt will only have a Free OS on it.10:47
shaunoother people still make laptops?  I thought it was basically lenovo and apple, with a bunch of companies making kids toys in the background10:48
theopensourcererNovatech don't *make* them10:49
popeyi need to break into my garage, we've lost the key :(10:56
theopensourcererI have a sledgehammer :-)10:56
dwatkinspopey: time to learn lockpicking? ;)10:56
theopensourcererTrain the cat to go in through a small window and unlock the door from the inside10:57
popeyneed the key for that10:57
dwatkinshow about a long piece of wire?10:58
dwatkinsthis reminds me, I should get an internal letterbox cover10:59
shaunoand a welltrained cat  (never know when it could come in handy)11:02
AlanBellwe bought the novatech laptop11:11
czajkowskiAlanBell: now dont break it when you get it playing with orca :p11:12
einonmAlanBell: coolio. Hopefully you talked to one of the business sales reps and got some freebies or a discount?..always worth a try!11:13
theopensourcererHey czajkowski - I read your blog post. How come you didn't mention the back handed remarks about you ;-)11:14
theopensourcererI guess it is because you know we all love you really...11:15
AlanBelleinonm: we don't buy much stuff now, we thought about doing lots at one point but we are not an interesting customer any more11:15
einonmAlanBell: Ah, ok. I only bought 2 at the time I tried...gave them the 'we're going to expand rapidly very soon, and need more later..' etc, got a few quid off and some laptops bags thrown in11:16
AlanBellthe bag was £9.6011:19
einonmthat's 2 pints, at least.11:20
AlanBellyeah, but only one of these https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/269169142937030657/photo/111:24
mungojerrypopey, you still happy with thinkpad despite all your breakages?11:27
mungojerrydiplo, i been using elementary, very nice11:27
mungojerrygonna be great11:28
* theopensourcerer wonders when popey's new found love of snipping things will extend to Sam...11:31
popeymungojerry, "all my breakages"?11:31
popeyI am unhappy about the case cracking11:31
popeyneed to break into garage, not sure how :(11:33
popeyi could smash the window I guess11:33
popeybut that won't get me far11:33
SuperMattwoo, we may have a business justification for geting a nexus 7 at work11:35
SuperMattdoes ubuntu work with the non-wifi-only version?11:36
SuperMattas in, can I use a phone network?11:36
dauberspopey: What are you trying to steak from yourself now?11:36
StevenRpopey: only one door?11:36
popeywe lost the key11:47
popeyone side door with only one lock11:47
popeyone main door which has many bolts11:47
popeyI figure the side door is easiest11:47
czajkowskican you pop sam in via the window ...11:48
popeythat door11:48
popeyno, too small11:48
popeyand it wont help, its locked11:48
ali1234MATE is still horribly broken :(11:49
StevenRpopey: what sort of lock?11:50
popeytypical bog standard lock11:51
popeyoh, http://guest:guest@popey.mooo.com:81/snapshot.cgi11:51
Davieyaww, popey has a mooo.com aswell.11:54
theopensourcererpopey: Smash the glass in the door. It's not double glazed I guess, and could be cheaply replaced in 20mins11:55
popeyyeah, single glazed11:56
popeysmashing the window will get me in11:56
popeywont open the door11:56
SuperMattcould you call up a locksmith?12:01
SuperMattI don't know what the issue is12:01
* StevenR wonders how best to do encrypted backups (I want the backup to be encrypted, the source is both unencrypted and encrypted, depending what it is)12:04
StevenRI've got an openvpn set up to my parents, so I can talk to a box that can talk to everything else in my parents' network12:05
theopensourcererStevenR: Write the backup to an encrypted partition?12:05
StevenRtheopensourcerer: that's possible at one end, but not the other (the goal is backups of my stuff to there and their stuff to here)12:06
theopensourcererYou could probably pipe the stream through a crypto12:08
theopensourcerere.g. tar -cvf - /home | aescrypt -e -p apples - >backup_files.tar.aes12:08
StevenRtheopensourcerer: true... that leaves me with the problem of incrementals (normally, I'd use rsnapshot, but it doesn't quite work for this)12:09
danfishpopey: dan12:11
danfishit's either a lock smith for that door or a reciprocating saw down the door jam12:14
danfishStevenR: dustin kirkland's blog has a rather good backup article http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/06/ecryptfs-backup-strategy.html12:15
StevenRthanks folks, few option to explore now :)12:22
ali1234popey: looks like virtualbox issue from yesterday was a mint bug13:05
ali1234hmm wait, disregard that13:05
ali1234affects xubuntu as well13:05
ali1234but only live cds13:05
lubotu3Launchpad bug 1048783 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "network name lookups broken in NAT network adaptors" [Low,Triaged]13:08
ali1234it looks like xubuntu has improved quite a bit since last time i tried it13:12
ali1234of course looks can be deceiving. the installer just hangs.13:15
ali1234cup of tea time13:18
ali1234hmm didn't debian switch to xfce as default now? maybe i should try that13:18
dwatkinsI have lubuntu on my netbook, that uses xfce.13:22
ali1234lubuntu uses lxde13:23
dwatkinsoh, I stand (sit?) corrected13:23
ali1234well, installer is still hanging13:25
mungojerrypopey when you got the laptop it was DOA too wasn't it?13:26
popeyno, it broke after a week13:29
mungojerryand your SSD died?13:29
popeyali1234, ahh, i only use bridging13:29
mungojerryok, so died after 1 week and case breaking13:29
kvarleypopey: How large is the ubuntu sticker on your laptop? I'm considering getting some but I can't seem to see the dimensions on the ubuntu shop.13:29
mungojerrynot they best advert though13:29
ali1234NAT is the default13:29
=== issyl0_ is now known as Guest30602
* popey looks for a ruler13:29
popeyits as wide as an iphone :)13:30
popeymungojerry, the positive things about the laptop outweigh the negative things13:30
mungojerrygood to hear13:30
mungojerryi'm not anti them, i used to have one13:31
mungojerrybut they are quite ugly and heavy13:31
popeyI'm a little disappointed13:31
popeybut would still buy another13:31
mungojerryyou like the linux support and the battery life?13:32
popeyali1234, you like the jolla videos then?13:39
popeyinteresting they demo on an n950, easy to hack I imagine13:39
ali1234it's a developer only phone, so yeah13:40
popeythey talked previously about using libhybris to use android kernels / boinc, guess that's not required on n95013:40
ali1234i don't really care for the arty farty marketing but their stuff is mer based13:41
ali1234as opposed to meego where the community stuff was basically a fork13:41
ali1234mer is, in fact, that same fork13:42
ali1234how do i get the the console in virtualbox?13:45
ali1234or: how do i send ctrl-alt-f1 to a virtualbox guest?13:45
ali1234ah, ctrl-f113:53
AlanBellhost + F113:53
AlanBellright ctrl normally13:53
ali1234yeah, right ctrl13:56
=== bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm
ali1234so if you try to install 12.10 over mint 14 the installer crashes14:12
ali1234at the screen that says "you already have <operating systems> installed"14:12
popeycjwatson might like to hear about that in #ubuntu-desktop14:16
popeyI have seen a report from a jouro who had a similar issue14:16
ali1234i will reproduce and then report a bug14:17
ali1234xfce install takes ages :(14:21
ali1234oh, it's because it is tryng to download files even though i told it not to because the computer has no working internet connection14:22
ali1234so it is timing out on each one14:22
ali1234done 43/117 so far14:22
lubotu3Launchpad bug 1081632 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs forever if you try to install on a computer with Mint 14 installed." [Undecided,New]14:40
gordhow does popey's cat text with no thumbs...14:40
ali1234i know right14:41
ali1234i would reply to that with "that's nice, but how is my cat doing?"14:42
ali1234i don't even care if everyone makes that joke14:43
popeywhen I pick him up in a bit I will ask if they deliberately report it in the first person14:44
popeygiven I am a pet owner, I am clearly like every other pet owner whose first reaction is "awwwww" then "hmmm"14:45
xnoxpopey: ali1234: all installer bugs please report on #ubuntu-installer. I have commented on your bug report. Without logs it's hard to see what is going on.14:48
ali1234on the contrary,it's very easy to see what is going on. just follow the steps to reproduce14:49
ali1234then you can have all the logs you want right there14:49
xnoxAlso note that it appears that VirtualBox is giving you broken network. While the indicator shows you have an ip address, ubiquity detects that actually you have no network.14:49
ali1234yes, that is also a bug14:49
lubotu3Launchpad bug 1048783 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "network name lookups broken in NAT network adaptors" [Low,Triaged]14:49
xnoxali1234: no, it is not. I don't have time nor bandwidth to download mint dvd, to install that, as well as to setup virtualbox.14:50
* xnox uses KVM and official ubuntu images only.14:50
ali1234well guess what, i don't have time to learn how ubiquity works and extract logs from a crashed VM...14:50
ali1234so i guess it isn't getting fixed14:50
xnoxali1234: `ubuntu-bug ubiquity` is all you need to get the logs from it.14:51
xnoxali1234: full automatic apport integration to extract all installer logs for developers.14:51
xnoxali1234: just click "try ubuntu" start ubiquity to get to that point & open terminal and type that, done.14:51
xnoxbut if you don't have network it will save the logs in a crash file.14:52
xnoxI believe virtualbox has something to access the VM to retrieve stuff of it.14:52
ali1234xnox: ubuntu-bug ubiquity does not work15:05
ali1234"The problem cannot be reported: This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party packages and try again."15:05
xnoxand this is when you are using an official ubuntu image?15:05
xnoxwhich image is it?15:05
ali12347ad57cadae955bd04019389d4b9c1dcb  ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.iso15:07
czajkowskiBigRedS: booo15:07
xnoxali1234: broken download?15:08
xnoxali1234: wait.... looked at wrong sums.15:08
ali1234i dunno. where are the isos?15:08
xnoxali1234: no, all is correct. You have the released image.15:08
xnoxI will check why ubuntu-bug did not work.15:09
xnoxISOs are here http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/15:09
ali1234which file do you actually need?15:09
kvarleypopey: Ok, ty :)15:51
ali12345lalala xfce15:55
ali12345so it looks like they've fixed ALL the bugs15:56
ali12345font hinting now works properly, as does dpi and font size15:56
ali12345it works properly with light-themes so you can have something that looks good15:56
ali12345i can't see any wonkey text *anywhere* which is a first15:57
ali12345i dont know if that's down to the theme or fixes15:57
ali12345anyway, brb installing this properly :)15:58
ali1234hmm. how can i install xubuntu-desktop from official ubuntu install media, without installing unity?16:01
ali1234use the server iso?16:01
ali1234or minimal iso?16:03
ali1234i better test this in vbox first16:03
mgdmhttps://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=685744#c6 o rly16:03
lubotu3Gnome bug 685744 in general "list set of supported extensions" [Normal,Unconfirmed]16:03
ali1234mgdm: ya rly?16:03
mgdmno wai16:04
ali1234extensions cannot reproduce gnome-2 experience, it's why i' installing xfce now that fallback mode is going away for real16:04
ali1234gnome-shell core is just too broken, and like unity, it's a horrible monolithic pile of half finished rubbish16:05
ali1234you know what i hate more than anything else about gnome-shell? those little rounded corners on the top panel16:08
ali1234it's so trivial but they just annoy me16:08
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
selinuxiumAny Canonicals about? The new support portal email I just recieved has a broken link to the portal...16:11
selinuxiumpopey ^^^16:12
ali1234how do i manually configure networking on the mini.iso??16:15
ali1234ah, "expert install"16:15
directhexhit cancel during the dhcp lookup16:16
directhexthen you can pick manual from the list of "oh bugger, now what" options16:16
ali1234can't. dhcp is working, it is virtualbox dns that is broken16:16
directhexgotta hit cancel *fast* then16:26
popeyali1234, why not set it to bridged mode temporarily?16:27
ali1234yeah or select "expert install" in the initial boot menu16:27
ali1234popey: because derp16:27
Seeker`popey: get in to your garage?16:33
popeynot yet16:34
Seeker`:( still think a flamethrower is the way to go16:35
mungojerryi used to have recurring dreams about my garage not locking properly at my parents house16:42
AlanBellpopey: has it been determined who lost the key yet?16:43
SuperMattwho lost which key?16:45
SuperMattoh, the garage key16:45
ali1234hmm, still no "development system" item in the mini.iso package selection?16:46
einonmpopey: is it a small key?16:46
ali1234fedora and opensuse both have this :/16:46
AlanBellis there a "consumer system" option?16:47
ali1234yeah, it's called "ubuntu-desktop"16:47
einonmI think you should try asking Elrond. Elrond has the small key.16:48
ali1234you can select as many package groups as you want of course16:48
ali1234some of the other ones include "video editing suite" and "edubuntu desktop"16:48
ali1234but there's absolutely nothing for developers16:48
ali1234i thought the sputnik project was supposed to create this feature, but i guess it's only available on the sputnik image for some reason16:50
AlanBellwould have purchased a sputnik today if they were available to purchase16:52
ali1234buy that new uber laptop16:53
ali1234Azelphur: did you see that? it's just up your street :)16:53
Azelphurwhat is?16:54
ali1234it only has 1080p though16:55
ali1234the new system76 $1500 laptop16:55
* Azelphur has a look16:57
Azelphurlooks nice16:58
ali1234truly a laptop for people who believe that you get what you pay for :)16:59
ali1234a laptop which can compete with apple on price :)16:59
ali1234ok, that seems to have worked... slightly better than the xubuntu install image17:06
ali1234time to install for real i guess17:06
ali1234is mini.iso a hybrid?17:07
ali1234i guess i'll find out shortly17:08
AzelphurAmazon is doing 3TB drives very cheap, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005T3GRLY?t=slicinc-20&tag=slicinc-2018:05
BigRedSAnyone familiar with the Nagios XML interface?18:21
BigRedSer, specifically how to get to it...18:21
soreauHey guys, is there a webcam program that doesn't suck? Trying cheese here, can't even figure out how to get out of fullscreen :P18:38
soreauok F11 but I think this webcam just sucks18:40
ali1234now my biggest problem is trying to decide whether to use ubuntu or droid sans18:55
ali1234hmm starting to notice little problems19:39
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
mgdmrunning Unity, if I hit the 'Files' thing in the launcher, where has the option to have a list of items with their details gone?20:39
mgdmerr, has it been removed from Nautilus?20:41
ali1234actually no20:44
ali1234the small icon list view was removed20:44
mgdmany idea how I get the details one, with the modification date and all that?20:44
ali1234right click in the nautlius window?20:45
ali1234ah no, it's in the menus20:45
ali1234view -> list20:46
mgdmah yes20:46
ali1234oh hang on this might be an old version20:46
mgdmI couldn've sworn it used to be in right-click20:46
mgdmgot it now, ta20:46
ali1234 still have compact, that's the one they were going to remove20:46
mgdmthe menus are not obvious having just switched back to Unity from classic mode20:46
ali1234haha yeah20:46
ali1234why would you even do that?20:46
mgdmclassic mode had a few irritating bugs20:47
ali1234true enough20:47
ali1234i switched to xubuntu instead. it's quite good now20:49
mgdmmight give that a go later20:49
mgdmor go for a 10-year retro thing and use Fluxbox again20:50
ali1234the window management is not great20:50
ali1234i might have to carry on using compiz20:50
ali1234which is a pity, since that was the cause of most of the classic mode bugs20:50
ali1234every time i click the button "install additional software" in rhythmbox, it crashes with sig abort20:53
=== GingeryDog is now known as GingerDog
dogmatic69anyone know what the number for 'drwxrwxr-x' would be?23:01
shaunodogmatic69: I think 77523:05
dogmatic69shauno: just found it, 0771. Thanks23:07
shaunoI think the 1 won't give 'other' read access23:08
dogmatic69shauno: ah you are correct. It is rwxrwx--x23:09
shaunor,w,x is 4,2,1.  then just add the numbers for the modes you want (eg, r+x is 4+1)23:10
dogmatic69shauno: ta. 775 is good.23:11
* AlanBell dislikes octal permissions23:28
ali1234use letters then23:28
shaunoas far as dirty habits go, they're amongst my better, so they get a free pass for now23:29
AlanBellheh, fair enough23:30
shaunothese pop-up notifications in the top-right.  is there any way to make them go away?  permenantly.23:40
AlanBellyou could remove notify-osd23:48
AlanBellor break it in a variety of ways that don't look nice23:49
shaunoI found instructions for just disabling the notification that's spamming me in gconf-editor, but nm-applet doesn't appear to have that key anymore23:50
AlanBellhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD is how they are designed to work23:52
AlanBellso you can compare stuff that happens with that to see if it is a bug or a feature23:52
shaunoyeah I was just looking at that. prevents the queue overflowing, but doesn't prevent chinese water torture23:53
AlanBelldunno if anyone is still working on that, or if the design objectives have been met23:56
shaunosolving the wrong problem of course, but I gave up on trying to make sense of network-manager a long time ago23:56
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
AlanBellI really liked the way that gnome-shell keeps a history of the notifications23:56
AlanBellwhy is network-manager sending you notifications?23:57
ali1234connect/disconnect network cable23:57
AlanBellother than "connected to SSID"23:57
ali1234also it spams when there's a cable plugged in to nothing23:57
ali1234it also spams if your wifi password is wrong or CRDA disallows the channel of your ap (it just keeps tryng to connect forever)23:57
shaunowhich may be what it looks like.  vmware with a second nic that's dangling atm23:58
ali1234basically it spams all the time23:58
AlanBellI have seen it repeatedly try to connect to wireless and fail and give notifications23:59
ali1234so xfce is pretty good but it has one fatal flaw: like mate it is still gtk2 so indicators don't work except the ones that are still around from gnome2 days, which means volume and NM-applet only23:59
AlanBellbut I was trying to connect to the wireless, it kind of made sense to do each notification on a connection attempt23:59
ali1234for everything else you have to use systray which of course isn't multimonitor23:59

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