[00:03] is there some problem in virtualbox on 12.10 where guests don't get correct dns entries? [00:21] ali1234, not seen that [01:12] evening [01:12] how can i change the keyboard layout in bash [01:12] permanently [01:12] it's set to US by mistake [07:29] morning all === TheOpenSourcerer is now known as theopensourcerer [08:01] Morning all [08:05] n1md4: I'm sure you preferred US? When using qwerty... [09:18] good morning everyone. === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [09:31] Good morning all! :) [09:34] anyone find inkscape has a difficult learning curve? [09:35] just wanna edit some vector art [09:39] morning [09:39] Evening [09:40] Back from the vet already? [09:43] mungojerry: I figured it out pretty much through trial and error. What you want to do? [09:48] dogmatic69, seems a bit fiddly to do anything. removing stuff seems to leave a white space rather than transparency behind [09:48] gonna play a bit at lunchtime [09:48] mungojerry: There is a decent on-line book from a chap called Tamvong (or something similar) that covers most aspects. But I do know what you mean. It's a complicated tool. [09:49] I do like it though. [09:50] mungojerry: if there is white behind something that means there is another element or its the page background. [09:50] You can change the background colour [09:51] mungojerry: I use inkscape a lot, and generally downloaded vector art is done badly. Loads of duplicated elements on top of each other. [09:52] Morning JamesTait :-) [09:52] Hey Ivanka! :) [09:52] * Ivanka just realised that she never added ubuntu-uk back in when she rebuilt her machine [09:53] :-O [09:53] * Ivanka was slack [09:53] BigRedS: True, but there's some oddities that creep in I've noticed, if you don't stick with qwerty. Therefore, I match the keyboard layout on install, but ''obviously'' switch to dvorak once in X ;) [10:04] hi Ivanka o/ [10:04] hi AlanBell :-) [10:06] morning all [10:06] linuxmint is looking very pretty these days :o [10:10] SuperMatt, i like the minimal look of elementary [10:32] any laptop recommendations? [10:32] preferably no windows tax, midrange costs [10:33] popey: Have you tried elementary - Saw a blog ( maybe you posted ) about it the other day [10:33] Debating giving it a go [10:34] AlanBell, thinkpad, always thinkpad [10:35] where from? [10:35] diplo, briefly [10:35] lenovo online store [10:35] linuxemporium just has old models I think [10:35] with the magic 20% off code [10:42] Morning [10:43] http://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/range/novatechnfinityn1402.html thoughts and opinions on this one? [10:44] Novatech are pretty good - I've bought 4 laptops from them in the past. [10:44] No Windows Tax. [10:44] The only thing I would say is that the cases are a little cheap and feel flimsy [10:44] They use Clevo IIRC [10:44] What about the new cheap google laptops? [10:45] chromebook or whatever they're calling it [10:46] The Samsung Chromebook looks rather like a Mac, unsurprisingly. [10:46] Love the second comment on the Novatech one: "Runs perfectly with Windows 7 and Ubuntu (dual booting)." [10:46] heh [10:47] theopensourcerer: I'd want to know I could still play my none-Wine-compatible games ;) [10:47] s/none/non/ [10:47] I will assume that's not using GPT partitioning scheme [10:47] It's for *work* [10:47] It will only have a Free OS on it. [10:48] other people still make laptops? I thought it was basically lenovo and apple, with a bunch of companies making kids toys in the background [10:49] Novatech don't *make* them [10:56] i need to break into my garage, we've lost the key :( [10:56] I have a sledgehammer :-) [10:56] popey: time to learn lockpicking? ;) [10:57] Train the cat to go in through a small window and unlock the door from the inside [10:57] need the key for that [10:57] :( [10:58] how about a long piece of wire? [10:59] this reminds me, I should get an internal letterbox cover [11:02] and a welltrained cat (never know when it could come in handy) [11:11] we bought the novatech laptop [11:12] AlanBell: now dont break it when you get it playing with orca :p [11:13] AlanBell: coolio. Hopefully you talked to one of the business sales reps and got some freebies or a discount?..always worth a try! [11:14] Hey czajkowski - I read your blog post. How come you didn't mention the back handed remarks about you ;-) [11:15] I guess it is because you know we all love you really... [11:15] Ahh. [11:15] einonm: we don't buy much stuff now, we thought about doing lots at one point but we are not an interesting customer any more [11:16] AlanBell: Ah, ok. I only bought 2 at the time I tried...gave them the 'we're going to expand rapidly very soon, and need more later..' etc, got a few quid off and some laptops bags thrown in [11:17] s/laptops/laptop [11:19] the bag was £9.60 [11:20] that's 2 pints, at least. [11:24] yeah, but only one of these https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/269169142937030657/photo/1 [11:27] popey, you still happy with thinkpad despite all your breakages? [11:27] diplo, i been using elementary, very nice [11:28] gonna be great [11:31] * theopensourcerer wonders when popey's new found love of snipping things will extend to Sam... [11:31] mungojerry, "all my breakages"? [11:31] I am unhappy about the case cracking [11:33] need to break into garage, not sure how :( [11:33] i could smash the window I guess [11:33] but that won't get me far [11:35] woo, we may have a business justification for geting a nexus 7 at work [11:36] does ubuntu work with the non-wifi-only version? [11:36] as in, can I use a phone network? [11:36] popey: What are you trying to steak from yourself now? [11:36] s/steak/steal [11:36] popey: only one door? [11:47] we lost the key [11:47] one side door with only one lock [11:47] one main door which has many bolts [11:47] I figure the side door is easiest [11:48] can you pop sam in via the window ... [11:48] popey.mooo.com:81/snapshot.cgi [11:48] that door [11:48] no, too small [11:48] and it wont help, its locked [11:49] MATE is still horribly broken :( [11:50] disappointing [11:50] popey: what sort of lock? [11:51] typical bog standard lock [11:51] oh, http://guest:guest@popey.mooo.com:81/snapshot.cgi [11:54] aww, popey has a mooo.com aswell. [11:55] :) [11:55] popey: Smash the glass in the door. It's not double glazed I guess, and could be cheaply replaced in 20mins [11:56] yeah, single glazed [11:56] smashing the window will get me in [11:56] wont open the door [12:01] could you call up a locksmith? [12:01] I don't know what the issue is [12:04] * StevenR wonders how best to do encrypted backups (I want the backup to be encrypted, the source is both unencrypted and encrypted, depending what it is) [12:05] I've got an openvpn set up to my parents, so I can talk to a box that can talk to everything else in my parents' network [12:05] StevenR: Write the backup to an encrypted partition? [12:06] theopensourcerer: that's possible at one end, but not the other (the goal is backups of my stuff to there and their stuff to here) [12:08] You could probably pipe the stream through a crypto [12:08] e.g. tar -cvf - /home | aescrypt -e -p apples - >backup_files.tar.aes [12:09] theopensourcerer: true... that leaves me with the problem of incrementals (normally, I'd use rsnapshot, but it doesn't quite work for this) [12:10] http://duplicity.nongnu.org/ [12:11] popey: dan [12:12] oops [12:14] it's either a lock smith for that door or a reciprocating saw down the door jam [12:15] StevenR: dustin kirkland's blog has a rather good backup article http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/06/ecryptfs-backup-strategy.html [12:22] thanks folks, few option to explore now :) [13:05] popey: looks like virtualbox issue from yesterday was a mint bug [13:05] hmm wait, disregard that [13:05] affects xubuntu as well [13:05] but only live cds [13:08] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1048783 [13:08] Launchpad bug 1048783 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "network name lookups broken in NAT network adaptors" [Low,Triaged] [13:12] it looks like xubuntu has improved quite a bit since last time i tried it [13:15] of course looks can be deceiving. the installer just hangs. [13:18] cup of tea time [13:18] hmm didn't debian switch to xfce as default now? maybe i should try that [13:22] I have lubuntu on my netbook, that uses xfce. [13:23] lubuntu uses lxde [13:23] oh, I stand (sit?) corrected [13:25] well, installer is still hanging [13:26] popey when you got the laptop it was DOA too wasn't it? [13:29] no, it broke after a week [13:29] and your SSD died? [13:29] ali1234, ahh, i only use bridging [13:29] nope [13:29] ok, so died after 1 week and case breaking [13:29] popey: How large is the ubuntu sticker on your laptop? I'm considering getting some but I can't seem to see the dimensions on the ubuntu shop. [13:29] not they best advert though [13:29] yeah [13:29] NAT is the default === issyl0_ is now known as Guest30602 [13:29] * popey looks for a ruler [13:30] its as wide as an iphone :) [13:30] mungojerry, the positive things about the laptop outweigh the negative things [13:30] IMO [13:30] good to hear [13:31] i'm not anti them, i used to have one [13:31] but they are quite ugly and heavy [13:31] I'm a little disappointed [13:31] but would still buy another [13:32] you like the linux support and the battery life? [13:38] yeah [13:39] ali1234, you like the jolla videos then? [13:39] interesting they demo on an n950, easy to hack I imagine [13:40] it's a developer only phone, so yeah [13:40] they talked previously about using libhybris to use android kernels / boinc, guess that's not required on n950 [13:41] i don't really care for the arty farty marketing but their stuff is mer based [13:41] as opposed to meego where the community stuff was basically a fork [13:42] mer is, in fact, that same fork [13:45] how do i get the the console in virtualbox? [13:45] or: how do i send ctrl-alt-f1 to a virtualbox guest? [13:53] ah, ctrl-f1 [13:53] host + F1 [13:53] right ctrl normally [13:56] yeah, right ctrl === bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm [14:12] hmm [14:12] so if you try to install 12.10 over mint 14 the installer crashes [14:12] at the screen that says "you already have installed" [14:15] interesting [14:16] cjwatson might like to hear about that in #ubuntu-desktop [14:16] I have seen a report from a jouro who had a similar issue [14:17] i will reproduce and then report a bug [14:21] xfce install takes ages :( [14:22] oh, it's because it is tryng to download files even though i told it not to because the computer has no working internet connection [14:22] so it is timing out on each one [14:22] done 43/117 so far [14:40] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1081632 [14:40] Launchpad bug 1081632 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs forever if you try to install on a computer with Mint 14 installed." [Undecided,New] [14:40] how does popey's cat text with no thumbs... [14:41] i know right [14:42] i would reply to that with "that's nice, but how is my cat doing?" [14:43] i don't even care if everyone makes that joke [14:44] :) [14:44] when I pick him up in a bit I will ask if they deliberately report it in the first person [14:45] given I am a pet owner, I am clearly like every other pet owner whose first reaction is "awwwww" then "hmmm" [14:48] popey: ali1234: all installer bugs please report on #ubuntu-installer. I have commented on your bug report. Without logs it's hard to see what is going on. [14:49] on the contrary,it's very easy to see what is going on. just follow the steps to reproduce [14:49] then you can have all the logs you want right there [14:49] Also note that it appears that VirtualBox is giving you broken network. While the indicator shows you have an ip address, ubiquity detects that actually you have no network. [14:49] yes, that is also a bug [14:49] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1048783 [14:49] Launchpad bug 1048783 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "network name lookups broken in NAT network adaptors" [Low,Triaged] [14:50] ali1234: no, it is not. I don't have time nor bandwidth to download mint dvd, to install that, as well as to setup virtualbox. [14:50] * xnox uses KVM and official ubuntu images only. [14:50] well guess what, i don't have time to learn how ubiquity works and extract logs from a crashed VM... [14:50] so i guess it isn't getting fixed [14:51] ali1234: `ubuntu-bug ubiquity` is all you need to get the logs from it. [14:51] uh-huh [14:51] ali1234: full automatic apport integration to extract all installer logs for developers. [14:51] ali1234: just click "try ubuntu" start ubiquity to get to that point & open terminal and type that, done. [14:52] but if you don't have network it will save the logs in a crash file. [14:52] I believe virtualbox has something to access the VM to retrieve stuff of it. [15:05] xnox: ubuntu-bug ubiquity does not work [15:05] "The problem cannot be reported: This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party packages and try again." [15:05] and this is when you are using an official ubuntu image? [15:05] which image is it? [15:07] ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.iso [15:07] 7ad57cadae955bd04019389d4b9c1dcb ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.iso [15:07] BigRedS: booo [15:08] ali1234: broken download? [15:08] ali1234: wait.... looked at wrong sums. [15:08] i dunno. where are the isos? [15:08] ali1234: no, all is correct. You have the released image. [15:08] http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/MD5SUMS [15:09] I will check why ubuntu-bug did not work. [15:09] ISOs are here http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/ [15:09] which file do you actually need? [15:51] popey: Ok, ty :) [15:55] lalala xfce [15:56] so it looks like they've fixed ALL the bugs [15:56] font hinting now works properly, as does dpi and font size [15:56] it works properly with light-themes so you can have something that looks good [15:57] i can't see any wonkey text *anywhere* which is a first [15:57] i dont know if that's down to the theme or fixes [15:58] anyway, brb installing this properly :) [16:01] hmm. how can i install xubuntu-desktop from official ubuntu install media, without installing unity? [16:01] use the server iso? [16:03] or minimal iso? [16:03] i better test this in vbox first [16:03] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=685744#c6 o rly [16:03] Gnome bug 685744 in general "list set of supported extensions" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [16:03] mgdm: ya rly? [16:04] no wai [16:04] etc [16:04] extensions cannot reproduce gnome-2 experience, it's why i' installing xfce now that fallback mode is going away for real [16:05] gnome-shell core is just too broken, and like unity, it's a horrible monolithic pile of half finished rubbish [16:08] you know what i hate more than anything else about gnome-shell? those little rounded corners on the top panel [16:08] it's so trivial but they just annoy me === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [16:11] Any Canonicals about? The new support portal email I just recieved has a broken link to the portal... [16:12] popey ^^^ [16:13] hey [16:15] how do i manually configure networking on the mini.iso?? [16:15] ah, "expert install" [16:16] hit cancel during the dhcp lookup [16:16] then you can pick manual from the list of "oh bugger, now what" options [16:16] can't. dhcp is working, it is virtualbox dns that is broken [16:26] gotta hit cancel *fast* then [16:27] ali1234, why not set it to bridged mode temporarily? [16:27] yeah or select "expert install" in the initial boot menu [16:27] popey: because derp [16:33] popey: get in to your garage? [16:34] not yet [16:35] :( still think a flamethrower is the way to go [16:42] i used to have recurring dreams about my garage not locking properly at my parents house [16:43] popey: has it been determined who lost the key yet? [16:45] who lost which key? [16:45] oh, the garage key [16:46] no [16:46] hmm, still no "development system" item in the mini.iso package selection? [16:46] popey: is it a small key? [16:46] fedora and opensuse both have this :/ [16:47] is there a "consumer system" option? [16:47] yeah, it's called "ubuntu-desktop" [16:48] I think you should try asking Elrond. Elrond has the small key. [16:48] you can select as many package groups as you want of course [16:48] some of the other ones include "video editing suite" and "edubuntu desktop" [16:48] but there's absolutely nothing for developers [16:50] i thought the sputnik project was supposed to create this feature, but i guess it's only available on the sputnik image for some reason [16:52] would have purchased a sputnik today if they were available to purchase [16:53] buy that new uber laptop [16:53] Azelphur: did you see that? it's just up your street :) [16:54] what is? [16:55] it only has 1080p though [16:55] the new system76 $1500 laptop [16:57] * Azelphur has a look [16:58] looks nice [16:59] truly a laptop for people who believe that you get what you pay for :) [16:59] a laptop which can compete with apple on price :) [16:59] hehe [17:06] ok, that seems to have worked... slightly better than the xubuntu install image [17:06] time to install for real i guess [17:07] is mini.iso a hybrid? [17:08] i guess i'll find out shortly [17:58] sera [18:05] Amazon is doing 3TB drives very cheap, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005T3GRLY?t=slicinc-20&tag=slicinc-20 [18:21] Anyone familiar with the Nagios XML interface? [18:21] er, specifically how to get to it... [18:38] Hey guys, is there a webcam program that doesn't suck? Trying cheese here, can't even figure out how to get out of fullscreen :P [18:40] ok F11 but I think this webcam just sucks [18:54] cool [18:55] now my biggest problem is trying to decide whether to use ubuntu or droid sans [19:39] hmm starting to notice little problems === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [20:39] running Unity, if I hit the 'Files' thing in the launcher, where has the option to have a list of items with their details gone? [20:41] err, has it been removed from Nautilus? [20:44] yes [20:44] actually no [20:44] the small icon list view was removed [20:44] any idea how I get the details one, with the modification date and all that? [20:45] right click in the nautlius window? [20:45] ah no, it's in the menus [20:46] view -> list [20:46] ah yes [20:46] oh hang on this might be an old version [20:46] I couldn've sworn it used to be in right-click [20:46] got it now, ta [20:46] still have compact, that's the one they were going to remove [20:46] the menus are not obvious having just switched back to Unity from classic mode [20:46] haha yeah [20:46] why would you even do that? [20:47] classic mode had a few irritating bugs [20:47] true enough [20:49] i switched to xubuntu instead. it's quite good now [20:49] might give that a go later [20:50] or go for a 10-year retro thing and use Fluxbox again [20:50] the window management is not great [20:50] i might have to carry on using compiz [20:50] which is a pity, since that was the cause of most of the classic mode bugs [20:53] every time i click the button "install additional software" in rhythmbox, it crashes with sig abort [20:53] nice === GingeryDog is now known as GingerDog [23:01] anyone know what the number for 'drwxrwxr-x' would be? [23:01] 0xxx? [23:05] dogmatic69: I think 775 [23:07] shauno: just found it, 0771. Thanks [23:08] I think the 1 won't give 'other' read access [23:09] shauno: ah you are correct. It is rwxrwx--x [23:10] r,w,x is 4,2,1. then just add the numbers for the modes you want (eg, r+x is 4+1) [23:11] shauno: ta. 775 is good. [23:28] * AlanBell dislikes octal permissions [23:28] use letters then [23:29] as far as dirty habits go, they're amongst my better, so they get a free pass for now [23:30] heh, fair enough [23:40] these pop-up notifications in the top-right. is there any way to make them go away? permenantly. [23:48] you could remove notify-osd [23:49] or break it in a variety of ways that don't look nice [23:50] I found instructions for just disabling the notification that's spamming me in gconf-editor, but nm-applet doesn't appear to have that key anymore [23:52] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD is how they are designed to work [23:52] so you can compare stuff that happens with that to see if it is a bug or a feature [23:52] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Flood_prevention [23:53] yeah I was just looking at that. prevents the queue overflowing, but doesn't prevent chinese water torture [23:56] dunno if anyone is still working on that, or if the design objectives have been met [23:56] solving the wrong problem of course, but I gave up on trying to make sense of network-manager a long time ago === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [23:56] I really liked the way that gnome-shell keeps a history of the notifications [23:57] why is network-manager sending you notifications? [23:57] connect/disconnect network cable [23:57] other than "connected to SSID" [23:57] also it spams when there's a cable plugged in to nothing [23:57] it also spams if your wifi password is wrong or CRDA disallows the channel of your ap (it just keeps tryng to connect forever) [23:58] which may be what it looks like. vmware with a second nic that's dangling atm [23:58] basically it spams all the time [23:59] I have seen it repeatedly try to connect to wireless and fail and give notifications [23:59] so xfce is pretty good but it has one fatal flaw: like mate it is still gtk2 so indicators don't work except the ones that are still around from gnome2 days, which means volume and NM-applet only [23:59] but I was trying to connect to the wireless, it kind of made sense to do each notification on a connection attempt [23:59] for everything else you have to use systray which of course isn't multimonitor