[00:00] <ali1234> so no messaging, bluetooth, datetime, etc
[00:00] <ali1234> printers
[00:00] <ali1234> battery
[00:00] <ali1234> oh and session
[00:00] <shauno> nm-applet keeps giving me an icon that I'd usually associate with 'connecting to wireless', but there is no wireless hardware
[00:00] <ali1234> xfce has applets that replace some of these, but they're not very good or don't work at all
[00:01] <AlanBell> shauno: yeah, it does that for wires too, whilst getting IP addres from DHCP
[00:01] <ali1234> also it tells me i have to restart every single time i install or remove any package at all
[00:02] <AlanBell> night all o/
[00:03] <shauno> ah.  so there's no fallback to a locally-assigned (169.254..) address if it believes there's a cable connected but no dhcp reply?
[00:03] <ali1234> there should be
[00:03] <Darael> Depends if avahi-autoip is running, doesn't it?
[00:04] <Darael> Something like that, anyway.
[00:04] <ali1234> yeah, probably
[00:05] <shauno> I'm not really fussed if it gets an address or not.  sometimes there's a network there, sometimes there isn't.  I just wish it'd die quietly
[00:07] <shauno> like how dhclient waits for longer and longer between each poll.  that'd be more sane.
[00:14] <Darael> It is worth checking if avahi-autoipd is running.  Well, looking up whether that's actually the right thing, and then checking whether it's running.  I'm used to it taking a locally-assigned address within a couple of minutes if there's no DHCP response.
[00:22] <shauno> closest match is two instances of avahi-daemon
[00:22] <ali1234> that should do it
[00:23] <ali1234> i suspect virtualbox is doing something silly like repeatedly connecting and disconnecting the virtual cable
[00:23] <ali1234> also there's that bug with vbox-nat
[00:23] <ali1234> where it gives a bad DNS on DHCP
[00:24] <ali1234> then it looks like the network is connected, but it doesn't work
[00:24] <ali1234> i think NM does some ping tests to check if you have a real connection
[00:24] <ali1234> so those might be failing
[00:25] <shauno> this is vmware with the second nic attached to a non-host network (eg, doesn't connect to my laptop, just other vmware guests on the same net)
[00:27] <shauno> but I'm not sure how that manifests when it's the only guest running, which is when I get this spam
[00:32] <ali1234> a bunch of these humble bundle android games are asking for developer level access rights
[00:32] <ali1234> seems legit :/
[00:35] <ali1234> waking mars: development tools - test access to protected storage
[00:46] <directhex> lollerskates
[00:58] <shauno> completely unrelated question, does anyone know if uk immigration law has any provision for self-employed migrants?
[01:02] <shauno> it's an odd one.  a freelance writer who's financially self-sufficient irrespective of geography.  so there's no "they took our jobs" angle, their employment remains in the US
[01:55] <directhex> shauno, i think tory clamp-downs on immigration mean you won't be allowed in. i know webcomic folks have been denied access, even for just conference appearances
[01:58] <shauno> yeah, looking through the categories I suspected this
[01:59] <shauno> it's not me, luckily.  but it does seem difficult that they've responded to certain immigration issues by clamping down on the only groups they can control, which tend to be net-gain groups
[08:15] <diplo> Morning all
[09:05] <Laney> eufloria from the latest humble android bundle is pretty fun
[09:09] <directhex> steam sale alert: Waveform, Serious Sam 3, Dungeons of Dredmor, Cogs, And Yet It Moves, World of Goo, Uplink, and Darwinia, are all 75% off (unlikely to go any lower IME)
[09:10] <diplo> ooh SS3, now is that worth a buy directhex ?
[09:10] <directhex> these are all games listed on the steam linux store page (which is only visible to beta subscribers, although non-beta people can access all those games anyway)
[09:11] <directhex> diplo, well, it's probably the best looking linux game in existence right now. me, i prefer more story-based games, and sam is entirely explosion based, but it#s certainly a competent title
[09:11] <diplo> I used to love playing Serious Sam at i Series lans at 3-4am
[09:12] <diplo> Bought older ones off steam a little while ago in a sale
[09:12] <diplo> Hmm, in steam on my laptop it's giving me the option to install SS3 ( I haven't bought it? )
[09:12] <directhex> the non-uds steam beta came with free serious sam 3
[09:13] <diplo> ooh result!
[09:14] <diplo> I don't think my work laptop could handle it though, will wait till I get home
[09:25] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[09:27] <popey> directhex, waveform any good?
[09:29] <directhex> popey, mmm, it's a simplistic indie game. interesting idea, slightly buggy execution. but it's only, like, a quid
[09:29] <popey> yeah
[09:39] <diplo> directhex: Operation Flashpoint Franchise ( Red River / Dragon Rising ) any good do you know ?
[09:46] <daubers> Morning
[09:46] <gord> diplo, not really, look for ARMA 2
[09:46] <directhex> diplo, not my style at all
[09:47] <gord> if you want something good from the steam sales, the walking dead is fantastic, just finished it on my ps3 last night
[09:48] <diplo> kk ta, looking now
[09:49] <mungojerry> made this sign to go in the toilets at work..i work with vermin..http://ubuntuone.com/78m6AUR43a2uWjSTJHGEfb
[09:59] <brobostigon> good morning everyone
[10:08] <diplo> Guys, help if possible or pointers, not ubuntu but you guys are more helpful :)
[10:08] <diplo> Failed to start message bus: Could not get UID and GID for username "dbus"
[10:09] <diplo> Would it be safe to add a user, or safe to reinstall dbus to so that it actually re0creates it
[10:10] <directhex> missing dbus user sounds rather catastrophic
[10:10] <diplo> http://www.spinics.net/lists/redhat/msg100115.html
[10:11] <diplo> That's pretty much is it seems what happened, the guy skipped network setup and did it after
[10:11] <diplo> But no follow up to that email, and haven't found a fix yet
[10:11] <diplo> Everything else seems to work ok apart from one of my scripts that's dependant on dbus
[10:11] <diplo> Live server and don't really want to break anything
[10:12] <diplo> So googling around but haven't found a good answer yet
[12:57] <DJones> Have any of the rasberry pi seen this? http://pibakeoff.leedshack.com/ MIght be something you're interested in
[12:57]  * DJones inserts "owners" after the pi
[13:07] <popey> interesting DJones
[15:24] <czajkowski> hmm
[15:24] <czajkowski> popey: how does one unmax my terminal window
[15:24] <czajkowski> cant find the top to see the box any more
[15:24] <brobostigon> f11
[15:24] <czajkowski> perfect!
[15:24] <czajkowski> thanks
[15:25] <brobostigon> :)
[15:25] <czajkowski> no idea what combination I did to do that
[15:25] <popey> F11
[15:25] <popey> :)
[15:25] <czajkowski> oh
[15:25] <czajkowski> so it is
[15:25] <czajkowski> hmmm
[15:25] <brobostigon> any good reliable telephone/broadband comparison sites. ?
[15:25] <czajkowski> clearly moshed the keys in rage
[15:28] <popey> brobostigon, http://www.uswitch.com/broadband/ ?
[15:29] <popey> thinkbroadband ?
[15:30] <brobostigon> that second one is new to me, thank you popey
[15:58] <popey> AlanBell, https://twitter.com/wsgeeks  know somewhere they might be able to use?
[16:09] <diplo> AlanBell, libertus.co.uk has an error not loading site at all, not sure why I clicked a link to go there but a FYI :)
[16:54] <AlanBell> so it does. I expect theopensourcerer broke it
[16:59] <AlanBell> popey: who is behind that?
[17:00] <popey> AlanBell, https://twitter.com/JamesFirth i think
[17:02] <AlanBell> makes sense :)
[19:30] <tobyisaac> Hi everybody . Toby here
[19:42] <AlanBell> hi tobyisaac
[19:42] <tobyisaac> how're you doing ALan
[19:43] <AlanBell> fine, on a train
[19:43] <tobyisaac> hahah on a train? wow that's cool. So what device you have with you in the train?
[19:43] <AlanBell> laptop tethered to android phone
[19:44] <AlanBell> and here is my stop o/
[19:46] <tobyisaac> ohh! what country?
[19:58] <tobyisaac> Alan are you still there?
[20:08] <AlanBell> tobyisaac: UK. this is the UK channel
[20:10] <tobyisaac> Ohh nice.
[20:10] <tobyisaac> i didn't know.. Lol
[20:12] <shauno> I was curious about that.  I assume some irc clients pick channels based on the locale?
[20:13] <shauno> I was curious if -uk is chosen by language or location.  because many will pick british english over USian pseudoenglish simply because that's what they're taught
[20:13] <AlanBell> yeah, some are set to join #ubuntu-GB which redirects here
[20:14] <AlanBell> GB being the ISO country code in the locale
[20:15] <shauno> I was just trying to figure out why we tend to get the odd indian overnight.  and then I realised that I have several friends who will specifically opt for british english because this is what they're taught
[20:15] <AlanBell> possibly
[20:15] <AlanBell> we get lost ukranians too
[20:16] <shauno> that makes sense, we stole their tld
[20:17] <AlanBell> they are UA
[20:19] <shauno> per ISO 3166-1, they're uk and we're gb
[20:19] <shauno> but janet bagged .uk before the ukraine hit the internet in any noticable manner
[20:19] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:UA
[20:20] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1:UA
[20:20] <tobyisaac> lol that's great
[20:20] <tobyisaac> how old are you and how long have you been working with UBUNTU?
[20:21] <tobyisaac> @shauno, yeah right GB!!!!
[20:21] <tobyisaac> @alan i'm not surprised it's uk chat though, cause everything i browse and everywhere i go, seems to go through UK IP... Kinda love it though.
[20:22] <tobyisaac> i'm going for a $reboot guys.. i'll catch ya sooner
[20:22] <ali1234> here's another hard question: http://askubuntu.com/q/220696/12435
[20:28] <tobyisaac> i'm back guys..
[20:35] <dwatkins> I sometimes IRC from a laptop tethered to my phone on the train, but it can be rather slow on the east coast.
[20:35] <popey> evening all
[20:36] <dwatkins> ali1234: that seems to be part of the larger question on why things in Linux desktop environments aren't consistent with each other
[20:36] <dwatkins> ello popey
[20:37] <ali1234> dwatkins: not really, i'm looking for a technical explanation, not a "well we need to make developer documentation and UI design guides and get everyone to use gtk3"
[20:37] <tobyisaac> hello everybody. lol
[20:37] <tobyisaac> how do you tethered to your phone guys?
[20:38] <dwatkins> ali1234: ah ok cool
[20:38] <dwatkins> tobyisaac: I just use the hotspot tool on Android
[20:38] <ali1234> XFCE is moving to gtk3 but it takes time. meanwhile most indicators don't, except for some that have a separate gtk2 port, and some which magically "just work" for reasons that are unclear to me
[20:38] <tobyisaac> i have no android.. sucks for me huh?
[20:38] <dwatkins> tobyisaac: what phone do you have?
[20:38] <tobyisaac> i got blackberry. hahaha
[20:39] <dwatkins> ah ok, no idea what that's capable of, tobyisaac - I've used aNokia 6110 as a modem and dialled-up before, but that was a while ago...
[20:40] <tobyisaac> well this blackberry shit's got an hotspot too but only serve as a router.
[20:40] <ali1234> actually i know why they magically work, what i don't understand is why there's two APIs for making indicators and why anyone would would choose to use the one that sucks
[20:40] <dwatkins> historical inertia?
[20:40] <ali1234> it doesn't look that way
[20:40] <ali1234> the ones that work are all unnofficial ones
[20:40] <ali1234> the ones that don't are all the official canonical ones
[20:43] <ali1234> also i don't understand the difference between the two APIs but i suspect one is dbus and the other uses direct linking and dbus
[20:43] <ali1234> *direct linking and gobject
[20:52] <AlanBell> ali1234: I expect the canonical ones work perfectly in the scenarios they are tested for
[20:53] <AlanBell> which is why the third party ones exist and work in other scenarios
[20:53] <ali1234> so why create another API?
[20:53] <AlanBell> oh, the whole indicator API, dunno
[20:54] <AlanBell> probably one of the many things where Canonical decided to do something so gnome decided to invent it differently
[20:54] <ali1234> nope, this has nothing at all to do with gnome
[20:54] <ali1234> there are two indicator apis that achieve exactly the same result
[20:55] <ali1234> if you use one of the APIs, you have to write two versions of the indicator, one for gtk2 and one for gtk3
[20:55] <ali1234> if you use the other API, you don't
[20:55] <ali1234> this isn't about eg how empathy talks to messaging indicator either
[20:55] <AlanBell> is this libindicate vs libappindicator?
[20:55] <ali1234> it's about how the messaging indicator gets itself onto whatever panel you are using
[20:56] <ali1234> i'm not sure but i think libappindicator is one of the things involved
[20:56] <ali1234> i've basically told you everything i know now :)
[20:58] <ali1234> the ones that "work" seem to go though indicator-appication (which has gtk2/3 versions) while the others seem to hit the lower level api direct
[21:01] <AlanBell> hmm, looks like you have to give it a Gtk.Menu() and presumably giving a gtk3 menu to a gtk2 desktop is a bad idea
[21:01] <ali1234> hmm. where as with appindicator you just send a description of the menu, and indicator-application builds it for you?
[21:02] <AlanBell> that would be my guess
[21:02] <AlanBell> meh, get with the program and use gtk3 :)
[21:02] <ali1234> like i said, xfce is moving to gtk3, but it takes time
[21:02] <ali1234> it won't be done in 4.12
[21:02] <ali1234> it will be started though
[21:30] <daubers> hmmm
[21:30] <daubers> fail 1
[21:36] <daubers> How do I run the isntaller up in low graphics mode? This is an EFI instllare, so I just have grub asking for kernel options
[21:37] <ali1234> you could use mini.iso
[21:38] <daubers> Yes. Wondering if I should do that now
[21:38] <daubers> Thought there was a vga boot line
[21:44] <daubers> mini.iso doesn't do efi boot :(
[21:58]  * daubers attempts with nomodeset
[22:00] <daubers> Oooh progress
[22:01]  * MartijnV1S looks at the "track & trace" website
[22:02] <MartijnV1S> \o/ Fibre NTU + router will be here tomorrow
[22:02] <MartijnVdS> *happy dance*
[22:03]  * daubers waits for the spinny pizza to spin...
[22:03] <MartijnVdS> daubers: 100/100mbit at home! *dance*
[22:04] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I'll be happy if I can get Ubiquity to not just spinny pizza at me...
[22:06]  * popey points daubers at xnox 
[22:08] <daubers> popey: This is largley why macs are stupid
[22:08] <daubers> at least it doesn't just freeze with nomodeset on
[22:11] <daubers> should have done this from a usb stick rather than a dvd I suppose
[22:13] <daubers> what does "http" do? It's using 12% of the CPU
[22:15] <daubers> ah ha!
[22:16]  * daubers lets it install
[22:16] <popey> thats apt doing updates surely?
[22:16] <daubers> Must have been
[22:17] <daubers> dkms started running at one point too
[22:17] <daubers> but ubiquity was just sat there at the first "You have space, you have interwebs" screen with the buttons greyed out
[22:17] <popey> does it have an nvidia card?
[22:17] <daubers> yes
[22:17] <daubers> (hence the nomodeset)
[22:17] <popey> did you tick the "give me non-free badness" box?
[22:17] <daubers> yes
[22:17] <popey> ok, so dkms makes sense
[22:17]  * daubers is bad
[22:18] <popey> meh
[22:18] <popey> dude, you've got a mac
[22:18] <daubers> Would be nice to tell people it's actually doing something....
[22:18] <popey> you're bad by default :)
[22:18] <daubers> Well.... yes...
[22:19] <daubers> But the good news is that my 3d printed brackets hoold the Mac to the bottom of the desk nice and safely :)
[22:22] <popey> aaaand
[22:22] <popey> bed
[22:22] <popey> nn
[22:22] <Daviey> slacker.
[22:26] <Azelphur> my mouse cursor is annoyingly stuck on the spinny loading icon, any way to force it to stop doing that?
[22:28] <Azelphur> probably will have to reboot to fix it :(
[22:28] <daubers> Azelphur: log out/in?
[22:29] <Azelphur> that's just as bad as a reboot :P
[22:29] <daubers> :p
[22:32] <daubers> Bah
[22:32] <daubers> it's not taken then nomodeset line across
[22:33] <daubers> how do I change that with an efi boot?
[22:35] <daubers> plan b
[22:35] <daubers> back to the livecd
[22:56] <daubers> Right! Almost out of nvidia hel
[22:56] <daubers> l
[23:00] <daubers> Woot!
[23:00]  * daubers lets everything update