[14:46] <cloudrf> Xubuntu is best
[14:47] <bazhang> why so
[14:47] <cloudrf> actual desktop with icons
[14:47] <cloudrf> lol
[14:47] <bazhang> ubuntu has that
[14:47] <cloudrf> i guess lubuntu probably has that too
[14:47] <bazhang> learn to use the tweak tools
[14:48] <cloudrf> i havent played with unity
[14:48] <bazhang> seems the knowledge of Unity stopped pretty much from when it came out
[14:48] <bazhang> it's changed HUGELY
[14:48] <cloudrf> i did want to fiddle with gnome 3 a bit
[14:49] <cloudrf> does gnome tools work for that?
[14:49] <bazhang> but slashdot likes to slam Ubuntu with their lack of facts articles, so UNITY SUX
[14:49] <bazhang> Unity is gnome3
[14:49] <bazhang> its a shell.
[14:49] <cloudrf> i know that bazhang
[14:49] <bazhang> as is gnome-shell
[14:49] <bazhang> so why say GNOME3
[14:49] <cloudrf> as is cinammon-shell and so on
[14:49] <bazhang> it's not something separate
[14:50] <bazhang> gnome-shell and unity shell are both highly configurable, at least as of last weekend
[14:50] <cloudrf> i right well, i like the interface of gnome 3, but would like a desktop like gnome 2
[14:50] <cloudrf> last weekend?
[14:50] <bazhang> perhaps they have reverted back to when slashdot said Unity sucked
[14:51] <bazhang> yes last weekend
[14:51] <bazhang> when I tweaked both
[14:51] <cloudrf> no, listen i dont bash any desktop
[14:51] <cloudrf> i just like xfce better
[14:51] <bazhang> it was there by omission
[14:52] <bazhang> gnome-panel is the "classic look"
[14:52] <cloudrf> configurable from the start very light weight
[14:52] <bazhang> and of gnome 3.8, there will be another "classic look"
[14:52] <cloudrf> right on
[14:52] <bazhang> s/of/as of/
[14:52] <IdleOne> Don't mind bazhang. he woke up grumpy in 1993 and hasn't been right since.
[14:52] <IdleOne> :P
[14:53] <cloudrf> ive been a linux user since i was a kid
[14:53] <cloudrf> back in 99
[14:53] <bazhang> it's odd how Unity gets such bad press, but it's VERY configurable with the present tools
[14:53] <bazhang> gnome-shell is much less stable
[14:54] <cloudrf> i like light-weight desktop that doesnt skimp on the amount of configuration
[14:54] <bazhang> the unity lenses make it truly invaluable
[14:55] <bazhang> xubuntu is hardly lightweight
[14:55] <bazhang> unless 4GB ram is lightweight
[14:55] <cloudrf> huh?
[14:56] <cloudrf> 4 gigs
[14:56] <bazhang> which part was unclear
[14:56] <cloudrf> i am not using 4 gigs..
[14:56] <bazhang> phoronix and others matched up Unity shell with gnome against xubuntu
[14:56] <bazhang> -no appreciable difference-
[14:57] <cloudrf> i have 8 gigs of ram, using a total of 450 megs of ram
[14:57] <bazhang> lubuntu IS lightweight
[14:57] <bazhang> kde4 xfce4 gnome, not so much
[14:58] <cloudrf> more light than say windblows
[14:58] <bazhang> never use it, no idea
[14:58] <bazhang> too complicated
[14:58] <cloudrf> we are talking 4 gigs on boot
[14:58] <cloudrf> at least
[14:59] <bazhang> of course I try each new release from MS
[14:59] <bazhang> but after a short time erase it and back to the sleekness that is UBUNTU
[15:00] <bazhang> Vista was shorter than most
[15:02] <cloudrf> well ive played with several distros
[15:02] <cloudrf> several releases
[15:02] <bazhang> I've played with the distrowatch top 100
[15:02] <bazhang> every one, save 3
[15:03] <cloudrf> which 3?
[15:03] <bazhang> LFS
[15:03] <bazhang> and two other no name ones
[15:03] <cloudrf> i definately want to play with that
[15:03] <bazhang> more ordeal than play
[15:04] <cloudrf> not for me
[15:04] <cloudrf> its fun for me
[15:04] <bazhang> gentoo was the limit
[15:04] <bazhang> and ARCH sucked
[15:04] <cloudrf> fedora was broke
[15:04] <cloudrf> i do remember that
[15:05] <bazhang> which release
[15:05] <cloudrf> their newest
[15:05] <bazhang> 17
[15:05] <cloudrf> yup
[15:05] <bazhang> what was "broken"
[15:05] <cloudrf> packagekit was broken
[15:05] <bazhang> so use something else
[15:05] <cloudrf> kept glitching out
[15:06] <cloudrf> had to use terminal yum
[15:06] <cloudrf> shit was waay broke
[15:07] <bazhang> thats all I use with Fedora
[15:07] <bazhang> awww
[15:07] <bazhang> -ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation.
[15:08] <cloudrf> well, was trying to find something people friendly
[15:08] <cloudrf> i have to sell computers ya know
[15:08] <bazhang> xubuntu is that
[15:08] <bazhang> I dont like rats
[15:09] <cloudrf> yes, that is why i have been selling my machines with xubuntu on them
[15:09] <bazhang> nice
[15:09] <cloudrf> got a brand new amd a10 5800k 3.8 ghz quad core system
[15:10] <cloudrf> that i have for sale on ebay right now
[15:10] <bazhang> yegads
[15:10] <bazhang> bet that will run VALVE great
[15:10] <cloudrf> yessir
[15:10] <cloudrf> oh it has a 2tb hard drive
[15:10] <bazhang> coming soon TO THE UBUNTU family
[15:11] <cloudrf> 8 gigs of ram
[15:11] <bazhang> and valve runs faster on Linux than on Windows
[15:11] <bazhang> hahahaha
[15:11] <cloudrf> the processor turbos out to 4.2 ghz by itself also
[15:11] <cloudrf> forgot that little tidbit
[15:12] <cloudrf> its sickeningly fast
[15:13] <cloudrf> oh the price 650$
[15:14] <cloudrf> 5 front usb ports, 6 rear, hdmi, desplayport, dvi, vga, optical sound, crossfires with any hd7000 series gfx card
[15:14] <cloudrf> 8 channel audio
[15:14] <cloudrf> it is sick!
[15:15] <cloudrf> soon as steam is ready i will sell those like hotcakes
[15:15] <bazhang> or faster
[15:16] <cloudrf> fm2 socket systems are cheap, but quick
[15:16] <bazhang> the addition of displayport is a nice touch
[15:17] <cloudrf> oh yeah
[15:17] <cloudrf> its the black edition processor too so its overclockable
[15:17] <bazhang> nice
[15:18] <cloudrf> hp, dell dont have the balls to do that
[15:19] <cloudrf> for another 26$ i will add another 8 gigs of ram too
[15:20] <IdleOne> cloudrf: Remember to keep it family friendly
[15:20] <cloudrf> sorry
[15:21] <DJones> cloudrf: I read 26$ as a 286 processor :)
[15:21] <cloudrf> lol
[15:21] <cloudrf> 16 gigs of ram at this point for a xfce load of linux is pointless tho
[15:22] <DJones> And I hope the "lol" is at the 286 processor comment, not IdleOne's :)
[15:22] <cloudrf> lol  was at 286
[15:23] <cloudrf> reminds me of that pentium 3 secc i took in for scrap the other day
[15:24] <cloudrf> i kept it for a sovennir
[15:25] <cloudrf> i was actually trying to find a venue to sell linux machines to increase output
[15:25] <cloudrf> locally i load about 15 machines a week
[15:26] <IdleOne> that is pretty good
[15:27] <cloudrf> i make 50 on each load i do
[15:28] <IdleOne> seems a low profit margin
[15:28] <cloudrf> i customize the interface to their needs and send them out with a smile
[15:28] <IdleOne> but at least it is profit
[15:29] <cloudrf> not everybody needs every item on the xfce taskbars
[15:30] <cloudrf> some people i load extra, and some of the beginners i load less
[15:31] <cloudrf> wanna get their feet wet and show them that we are not windows and we have something to offer that is better
[15:32] <cloudrf> 120 people lost their jobs last week because of microsoft's windows 8 release
[15:32] <cloudrf> and i am fighting back
[15:33] <cloudrf> systemax plant closed
[21:20] <guntbert> I am concerned about the documetation for ubuntu. I've got the impression that team is the most seriously understaffed one. Even a request "I want to help, give me a hint where to start and whom to ask" gets no reply for a long time.
[21:22] <AlanBell> there is a lot to document
[21:22] <AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/ is where the effort is going
[21:28] <guntbert> AlanBell: indeed? then the issue is more serious - on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam I find no reference to that site
[21:29] <guntbert> AlanBell: I was not talking about creating apps and documenting them
[21:34] <guntbert> I was talking about https://help.ubuntu.com/ , both the official and the community part, bug reports get no response for a long time... - mind you I don't rant, but it looks like the issue is growing and the number of workers/volunteers is too small to handle it
[21:37] <AlanBell> yeah, you are not wrong
[21:38] <guntbert> AlanBell: :-)
[21:39] <AlanBell> developer.ubuntu.com for the desktop and for server stuff juju.ubuntu.com
[21:39] <AlanBell> that is where the platform documentation is really
[21:42] <guntbert> AlanBell: are you implying that help.ubuntu.com has been abandoned?
[21:46] <AlanBell> not really, it has been updated for 12.10
[21:46] <guntbert> a short look at those sites doesn't give the impression that I will find what I need - juju is all about "cloud", not every server is part of one, and developer seems to be all about developing new apps - not about using the system to do ordinary work
[21:46] <AlanBell> probably will be updated again for 13.04
[21:47] <AlanBell> indeed, you won't find what you need on those sites, however the people that canonical is pitching the platform to probably will :)
[21:50] <guntbert> AlanBell: as for the updates: look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - it ends with 11.10 with an inconsistent link to 12.04 somewhere else