=== user is now known as lucidluna | ||
Chiy0 | Ubuntu stinks! | 04:24 |
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=== Chiy0 is now known as Grillyda | ||
=== Grillyda is now known as ldoru | ||
ldoru | FUCK | 04:51 |
ldoru | fuck | 04:51 |
directhex | steam sale alert: Trine 2 is 75% off, and is a currently available linux beta game | 10:04 |
brobostigon | good morning everyone. | 11:03 |
popey | morning | 11:08 |
brobostigon | morning popey | 11:09 |
=== G4MBY2 is now known as r99 | ||
czajkowski | morning | 12:02 |
brobostigon | afternoonings czajkowski | 12:03 |
d0m | wow, where did the morning go? | 12:05 |
d0m | also, hello | 12:05 |
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
jacobw | afternoonings | 14:10 |
penguin42 | hey | 14:11 |
penguin42 | anyone using a thinkpad w520 on Quantal - and have the external VGA working? | 14:44 |
DJones | popey: One for you and any other rasberry pi owners https://twitter.com/danfrisk - Do you have a Raspberry Pi? We're going to make a special Minecraft version (based on PE) for it! - Minecraft Pi edition will be free, it's a slightly cut down version of PE. With added api. | 14:47 |
popey | blimey | 14:48 |
DJones | How well do you think it will run on the pi | 14:50 |
popey | well it runs on phones | 14:51 |
popey | and the pi is about the same spec as an iphone 3g | 14:51 |
DJones | Should be fairly decent then | 14:52 |
DJones | Must admit, on a phone/tablet, its not outstanding due to the controls & not having a mouse | 14:52 |
DJones | But it is is playable and interesting | 14:53 |
czajkowski | xnox: ping | 15:36 |
czajkowski | xnox: on shutting down on my machine it now takes about 20 seconds | 15:36 |
czajkowski | boot up takes 4 | 15:36 |
czajkowski | any ideas | 15:36 |
andylockran | hey guys, any recommendations for an Ubuntu laptop, hdmi :) | 15:50 |
SuperEngineer | czajkowski: magnetic hdd or SSD? if ssd could be write lag [only a guess], if normal hdd...hmmm | 15:52 |
DJones | andylockran: I've got a HP G72, works great, probably 18 months old | 15:52 |
DJones | czajkowski: 4 second boot up? Thats not something to complain about | 15:53 |
czajkowski | SSD | 15:54 |
czajkowski | DJones: oh no that I love | 15:55 |
czajkowski | it's the shutting down I've issues with | 15:55 |
DJones | 20 seconds seems pretty quick | 15:55 |
SuperEngineer | I'd be happy with those figures sometimes.... | 15:56 |
SuperEngineer | but it *may well be* write lag on sut down | 15:56 |
SuperEngineer | *shut | 15:56 |
SuperEngineer | czajkowski: [btw - thought your blog post re women [& comments aimed at] was rather well written] | 15:58 |
SuperEngineer | ..good point - well made | 15:58 |
czajkowski | Thank you | 16:00 |
popey | andylockran, thinkpad, standard answer | 16:04 |
directhex | good tool to record a full-screen desktop? | 16:04 |
popey | kazam | 16:05 |
penguin42 | popey: Be careful, some of the thinkpads are a bit of a fight, the W520 I have on my lap is an nvidia/intel hybrid, it's a real fight to get to work on Quantal | 16:08 |
popey | i would naturally avoid all hybrids | 16:09 |
penguin42 | popey: You can switch it out of hybrid, but the external VGA is only wired to the Nvidia hardware | 16:10 |
popey | sounds rubbish :) | 16:10 |
penguin42 | popey: Nod :-( I'm getting closer to having it work with Nouveau, it's looking like it requires noapic, and even then it's getting some startup hangs if I use kubuntu GL | 16:11 |
penguin42 | popey: Not my choice of hardware | 16:12 |
=== oimon is now known as Guest77645 | ||
=== FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne | ||
mungojerry_ | lol @ my 2 yr old...peeks at my laptop, and starts pressing the icons on the unity launcher on the screen | 16:22 |
Azelphur | what is this inferior non-touch screen device :P | 16:23 |
mungojerry_ | he is rather used to my android tablet | 16:24 |
Azelphur | hehe | 16:24 |
AlanBell | funniest thing is when they try and pinch zoom pictures in books | 16:24 |
mungojerry_ | he's decided icons should be touchable, i think he's ready to the future of computing | 16:27 |
AlanBell | andylockran: we have one of these on the way http://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/range/novatechnfinityn1402.html | 16:27 |
mungojerry_ | maybe mice won't be around anyway when he's a teenager | 16:27 |
Azelphur | I don't think mice are going to go away on things like laptops and desktops just yet, touch isn't a viable alternative | 16:28 |
Azelphur | well, mice and keyboards | 16:28 |
Azelphur | (step 1, hold your arm out in front of your face as if to touch the screen, step 2, keep it there for a typical 7 hour work day.) | 16:29 |
zleap | for long documents you probably need a keyboard, anyone up for typing a 100k+ word uni thesis on a touch screen | 16:29 |
mungojerry_ | yes, there are different work modes requiring different input methid | 16:29 |
mungojerry_ | looking at the students in their work space, computers are for youtubing and facebooking | 16:31 |
penguin42 | Azelphur: Some people get on well with touchpads | 16:33 |
Azelphur | touchpads are ok, touch screens arn't :p | 16:33 |
penguin42 | nod | 16:33 |
mungojerry_ | well they are great for armchair surfing or on the train | 16:34 |
Azelphur | yea they are great on consumption devices | 16:34 |
mungojerry_ | mx player on android tablet has certain areas of the screen to reduce vol/brightness etc, very nice to watch stuff on the train | 16:34 |
mungojerry_ | such a grim day outside. had to stand in the rain for 30 mins while doggy got some exercise | 16:36 |
mungojerry_ | guys, if i type IMG_001.jpg in unity launcher, and get 3 matches, how do i know the path to each match? | 16:39 |
directhex | popey, i like how 4:30 of that video are converting a unity3 project to unity4. actual linux port time is 50 seconds ;) | 16:41 |
popey | yeah :) | 16:42 |
popey | i was going to comment on that myself | 16:42 |
directhex | frustrating that I can't strip the audio out though :( | 16:43 |
popey | kazam worked then directhex ? | 16:43 |
directhex | yeah, kazam worked easy. capturing on windows is another matter though | 16:44 |
xnox | czajkowski: is that a regression because of installing a package I proposed to unbreak your phone? Or just a general regression? | 17:01 |
xnox | for boot up - you can install package bootchart and it will give logs & pretty graphs of why the boot takes as long as it does. | 17:01 |
xnox | czajkowski: not sure if there is an easy way to diagnose shut-down though you can compare: shutdown vs logout-first & shutdown. And try to pin-point "what's holding up the shutdown" | 17:05 |
czajkowski | xnox: genereal | 17:05 |
czajkowski | nods | 17:05 |
czajkowski | ok | 17:05 |
xnox | czajkowski: there are talks that there are some desktopy applications that hold open files & just plain refuse to quit, such that we wait for timeout & then kill them, resulting in shutdown delays. | 17:06 |
popey | czajkowski, be aware of bug 1081066 for bootchart :) | 17:31 |
lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 1081066 in bootchart (Ubuntu) "Bootchart doesn't logrotate, so eventually fills /var/log" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081066 | 17:32 |
penguin42 | xnox: Yeh, an unbootchart would be great - not sure where it would put it's data; but slow shutdown really annoys me, becuase I'm normally waiting to go to bed, or get out of the house etc | 17:34 |
daftykins | do you people tend to hit shutdown whilst programs are all open then? | 17:34 |
penguin42 | daftykins: Yes; kde has a very nice ctrl-alt-shift-pagedown that does a shutdown | 17:35 |
penguin42 | daftykins: But it doesn't seem to be the apps that slow things down though | 17:35 |
daftykins | nah i'm just more interested in styles of use | 17:35 |
daftykins | as i always close programs off before a shutdown, sort of winding down toward finishing things | 17:35 |
penguin42 | daftykins: I close things (when I remember!) that I think are too dumb to clean themselves up | 17:36 |
popey | depends, i usually close most apps before closing down | 17:43 |
popey | but sometimes there's a text editor left open on another desktop | 17:43 |
MartijnVdS | hi from Birmingham :-) | 17:59 |
penguin42 | MartijnVdS: Eek what are you doing there | 17:59 |
daftykins | poor guy | 18:00 |
bigcalm_laptop | Ello :) | 19:34 |
AlanBell | hi bigcalm_laptop | 19:35 |
popey | evening | 19:35 |
* penguin42 doesn't think he would want an excited or scared laptop | 19:36 | |
popey | balls | 19:47 |
popey | bug 859600 is breaking some wine apps | 19:47 |
lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600 | 19:47 |
popey | gets on my tits when people claim there's no issues at all running a 64-bit distro these days. that's just factually inaccurate | 19:48 |
DJones | Depends on a person usage, I'm using 64 bit and can say that I haven't had any issues, but I'm not using anything exotic/none-standard | 19:53 |
popey | exactly | 19:54 |
popey | that's exactly the issue. everyone talks from their own perspective. | 19:55 |
popey | without considering that there might be use cases where it actually fails. | 19:55 |
popey | "well it works for me, therefore it must work for everyone" is the broken logic | 19:55 |
shauno | how about "it's 2012, so I feel safe making an assumption that desktop linux has at least caught up with 2004"? | 19:56 |
popey | its not a problem of desktop linux, its a problem of people asserting their experience is everyones experience in desktop linux | 19:57 |
DJones | popey: Agreed, although its difficult not to use the same logic when all you're using is a default desktop & packages from the repo's | 19:57 |
popey | oh sure, but who does that? :) | 19:57 |
shauno | it just seems like the wrong direction to get annoyed at people assuming it works. it should be a very reasonable assumption | 19:57 |
popey | assumption is the failure | 19:57 |
popey | hey ho | 19:58 |
daftykins | running a 64-bit OS in the Windows world is still a bit of a laugh though, when you look at how many apps are *actually* still 32-bit atop it | 20:15 |
daftykins | in fact, haha | 20:15 |
daftykins | lemme put up a pic | 20:16 |
daftykins | http://i.imgur.com/66f7R.gif | 20:17 |
daftykins | that sums it up XD | 20:17 |
bigcalm_laptop | Anybody here used a touch screen with a RPi? | 20:23 |
popey | i dont care that there are 32-bit apps running on my 64-bit OS, so long as they work | 20:29 |
daftykins | oh so they don't in Ubuntu? that's quite unimpressive | 20:34 |
daftykins | in fact pretty shocking | 20:34 |
penguin42 | popey: Especially given they're often smaller and faster; and now actually work these days on Ubuntu (finally) | 20:34 |
popey | daftykins, what don't work? | 20:35 |
popey | daftykins, i have a bunch of 32-bit apps which run seamlessly on my 64-bit ubuntu system | 20:35 |
popey | but some libraries haven't been converted to multiarch which means you can't install 64 and 32-bit versions of them side by side | 20:35 |
popey | its one reason why 32-bit steam on 64-bit ubuntu doesn't have an indicator in the panel | 20:35 |
penguin42 | it's not bad these days on Quantal | 20:35 |
popey | yeah, its not many | 20:36 |
popey | but it's some crucial ones | 20:36 |
penguin42 | nod | 20:36 |
popey | i dont mind that they dont work, free software and all that | 20:36 |
popey | i mind more that people claim everything is peachy :) | 20:36 |
daftykins | sounds very messy | 20:37 |
penguin42 | yeh, it's certainly a heck of a lot better than a year ago | 20:37 |
penguin42 | a year ago it just wasn't doable, where as RHEL/Fedora have been pretty much working for years on it - so it's definitely going in the right direction | 20:37 |
popey | yeah, i quite like the implementation of it | 20:37 |
popey | apt-get install foo gets me the 64-bit version, apt-get install foo:i386 gets me the 32-bit one | 20:38 |
penguin42 | popey: Not sure yet, it's a little overkill for the PC case (but nice for ARM) and I'm not convinced things like Gnome plugins work yet | 20:38 |
daftykins | i didn't realise there was a steam beta | 20:38 |
popey | i was playing Serious Sam 3 BFE today on Linux :) | 20:39 |
daftykins | ah-har | 20:39 |
popey | my poor intel only machine barely kept up | 20:40 |
daftykins | decent performance? assuming you have a decent graphics card | 20:40 |
daftykins | ah XD | 20:40 |
popey | yeah, nvidia is fine | 20:40 |
daftykins | i see the beta site is referring to nvidia having done some work :O | 20:40 |
popey | yeah, there's been collaboration between canonical, valve and nvidia | 20:40 |
popey | one of the guys from valve came along to UDS last month | 20:41 |
daftykins | ooh | 20:41 |
popey | also a bunch of people from Unity3D | 20:41 |
daftykins | if you build it, they will come - indeed | 20:41 |
popey | directhex did a video earlier showing how easy it can be to port games over from Windows to Linux if written in Unity3D | 20:41 |
popey | still lots of work to do of course | 20:42 |
daftykins | quantal ISO is 753MB, cor that must be getting to overburn territory | 20:42 |
popey | it's intentionally more than a CD size now | 20:42 |
daftykins | oh? | 20:42 |
popey | yeah | 20:42 |
daftykins | sort of closing off attempts that might be made to put it on older hardware? | 20:42 |
daftykins | i completely forgot about the 12.10 release | 20:43 |
penguin42 | daftykins: I think they just gave up trying to squeeze it on | 20:43 |
popey | DVDs and USB sticks work fine | 20:43 |
popey | it was a deliberate choice | 20:43 |
popey | there's still a limit | 20:43 |
penguin42 | daftykins: It's ok on older hardware via USB sticks, and frankly anything that won't boot off USB sticks these days is just too much of a fight with Ubuntu, I've done it on an older AMD box but it was one heck of a fight | 20:43 |
daftykins | yeah i know all this | 20:44 |
daftykins | i just find it a bit of a curious decision | 20:44 |
popey | less stress for us trying to constantly crowbar stuff in | 20:44 |
penguin42 | daftykins: Why? Why spend the effort squeezing when very few people are stuck using CD to install | 20:44 |
penguin42 | daftykins: You can still install using something like Ubuntu server and add the other packages | 20:44 |
daftykins | because it's a cheaper medium | 20:45 |
penguin42 | by how many c these days? | 20:45 |
penguin42 | daftykins: In the end a reusable USB stick is cheaper | 20:45 |
daftykins | well, i think you're considering a particular user type there | 20:45 |
penguin42 | daftykins: Most people have come to the conclusion that burning CD/DVDs is just too much of a pain | 20:46 |
penguin42 | daftykins: I've had to do a lot of weird/older machines and even I try and avoid CDs | 20:46 |
popey | i cant recall the last time I burned a CD | 20:46 |
daftykins | i'm afraid i still find everything you're saying obvious but it doesn't make it any less of a surprise :P | 20:47 |
penguin42 | popey: I tried recently, I had a machine that had a bios bug that meant it didn't like USB thumb drive booting; fortunately someone told me it worked if I used a PS/2 keyboard on it - really got me rialled | 20:47 |
daftykins | i'm certainly rocking a collection of flash drives too, but nevermind | 20:47 |
penguin42 | daftykins: These days you need to be a bit of an expert to get Ubuntu on more than say 7 year old machines, if you are then you can do it with a ubuntu-server disc, anything newer the larger image/use of a thumb drive isn't an issue; I agree it's a shame it just doesn't work on older stuff | 20:48 |
daftykins | can you stop patronising now =/ | 20:48 |
penguin42 | shrug - I wasn't trying to! | 20:49 |
popey | then again if you can get ubuntu on a 7 year old machine you probably wouldn't want to run it | 20:49 |
popey | probably better using lubuntu or xubuntu I guess | 20:49 |
penguin42 | but fortunately I've now bought my dad a machine that is new; shame he tripped a kernel bug on it though :-( | 20:49 |
popey | is that the lenovo? | 20:50 |
penguin42 | popey: No | 20:50 |
penguin42 | popey: My dad's is a low end Sandybridge desktop, it triggers a kernel bug only when connected via a kvm; other people have triggered the same bug under different cases | 20:50 |
DJones | There's always the minimal iso to burn to a cd as another option | 20:50 |
penguin42 | popey: Bug 1070690 | 20:51 |
lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 1070690 in linux (Ubuntu Raring) "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null); RIP: 0010:[<ffffffff8167f93a>] [<ffffffff8167f93a>] __mutex_lock_slowpath+0xaa/0x150" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070690 | 20:51 |
penguin42 | popey: I'm too mean to buy my dad a Lenovo | 20:51 |
penguin42 | popey: Unfortunately 3 out of 4 machines I've installed Quantal on have triggered series graphics (either kernel or X) bugs - all very different hardware | 20:52 |
popey | heh | 20:53 |
popey | is that intel hd3000 or 2000? | 20:53 |
popey | i didnt realise the mobo in my desktop is "only" hd2000 (it's a cheapo zoostorm i7) | 20:54 |
popey | which is one reason why some games are really crappy on it | 20:54 |
penguin42 | popey: Not sure off hand; my dads it's a G645 CPU, bottom end dual core with integrated gpu | 20:54 |
popey | ahh, dual-core.. even worse :S | 20:55 |
penguin42 | popey: This is the more cheapo zoostorm - the 199 one | 20:55 |
daftykins | err the GPU is on-die of the CPU in i-series | 20:55 |
popey | hehe | 20:55 |
popey | yes, no need to patronise daftykins :p | 20:55 |
popey | its still called a GPU | 20:55 |
daftykins | yes but, hang on | 20:55 |
daftykins | < popey> i didnt realise the mobo in my desktop is "only" hd2000 (it's a | 20:55 |
daftykins | cheapo zoostorm i7) | 20:55 |
daftykins | ^mobo? | 20:55 |
daftykins | no relevance then surely | 20:55 |
popey | meh | 20:55 |
popey | s/mobo/cpu/ | 20:56 |
popey | s/mobo/black box under the desk/ | 20:56 |
daftykins | i see | 20:57 |
penguin42 | popey: I just seem to have had a !?$* week for bugs :-( | 20:57 |
popey | yeah, I think we all have those now and then | 20:57 |
popey | i sometimes have a day where I think "I'll file that bug I have been meaning to" and end up with a crash in the bug reporter, then discover some other bug when reproducing it | 20:58 |
popey | and end up filing 3 in a row :) | 20:58 |
daftykins | ouch | 20:58 |
penguin42 | popey: Yeh so I've currently got gdb attached to X to try and figure out why xrestop crashes it (which I see you also reported), earlier I fixed a gdb bug that I ran into when previously trying to use gdb instead of xrestop.... | 21:00 |
popey | oh, thanks for looking at that | 21:00 |
penguin42 | popey: Of course I was using xrestop to find out why X was using 100% and running like a dog - so a triple whammy, but that turned out not necessarily due to an ubuntu bug | 21:01 |
penguin42 | and it's a pain since it won't fail in a vm so I have to do it on my main machine and that means I can't listen to music - and that makes me a sad penguin | 21:02 |
popey | :( | 21:03 |
popey | is the picture on your website accurate? your array of machines around you | 21:03 |
penguin42 | popey: Yes, a little out of date, but approximately correct - just a bit more dust and an LCD on my main machine | 21:04 |
penguin42 | oh, and the beard seems to have got longer, and the hair sparser | 21:04 |
popey | heh | 21:06 |
daftykins | ^_^ | 21:07 |
penguin42 | popey: Problem with digging in the X server is you have to know quite about it's internal data structures (which I don't), so it's a bit of voodoo programming | 21:15 |
penguin42 | (and I have to try and remember whether it's apt-get builddep, builddeps, build-dep or build-deps which I ALWAYS forget) | 21:17 |
popey | now you know what you've done there... I _know_ it's build-dep but now you've said that I'm gonna mistype it every time! | 21:21 |
penguin42 | haha sorry about that | 21:22 |
xnox | is it now apt-get build<TAB> | 21:22 |
xnox | ? | 21:22 |
popey | ooooh! | 21:24 |
popey | why did I not know that! | 21:24 |
penguin42 | xnox Good point | 21:25 |
popey | in other news, we're still evil https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/ZZWLtq6tYdn | 21:25 |
penguin42 | popey: Could you successfully argue against him? (OK, so he's Mr. Systemd - but he's right it would be easier if it wasn't quite so segmented - I don't actually know which is better) | 21:27 |
popey | have you read the comments? | 21:27 |
popey | surprising number of pro-ubuntu ones | 21:28 |
popey | I thought it would be the usual dogpile | 21:28 |
popey | but no, I couldn't. I don't know enough about upstart/systemd | 21:28 |
popey | i leave that to people like | 21:28 |
popey | er.. slangasek :) | 21:29 |
penguin42 | popey: Me neither, but it's true that having two of them doesn't necessarily help | 21:29 |
popey | "systemd has not yet been included in any released enterprise distribution" | 21:30 |
popey | thats a somewhat compelling argument isnt it? | 21:30 |
popey | meh, could say the same about GNOME Shell and Unity | 21:30 |
popey | Oh, wait! | 21:30 |
popey | ;) | 21:30 |
xnox | I think lennart totally missed the point in this conversation. | 21:31 |
xnox | upstart already had support for running user jobs for a long time. | 21:31 |
penguin42 | popey: ok, I hadn't realised upstart had won in RHEL6, I guess that pretty much settles it then | 21:31 |
xnox | now we want to make sure that some of the /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop files are supervised by upstart. | 21:31 |
xnox | penguin42: but lennart keeps on saying that it's systemd in rhel7, but that has not been released yet. | 21:32 |
penguin42 | xnox: He may be in a better position to know; it's an interesting about turn if RHEL have got sysv->upstart->systemd | 21:32 |
* penguin42 admits to preferring sysvinit, at least I knew how to debug startup | 21:33 | |
xnox | penguin42: they only run upstart in sysv compat mode, e.g. no upstart jobs, just supervise existing init scripts. | 21:33 |
penguin42 | hmm, I see why it's segging - what I don't know is why it's got that value counts[(type & TypeMask) - 1]++; and type=0 | 21:49 |
directhex | alert: SPAZ is 75% off until 10am tomorrow, and is one of the games available on the Steam for Linux beta | 22:52 |
daubers | directhex: From now on I shall think of you more as A floating hologram of Patrick Moores head | 23:01 |
directhex | i lack a monocle! | 23:01 |
directhex | also, i can totally ruin gamesmaster forever for you: you can see patrick moore is actually just wearing a black turtleneck in the early seasons, it's not a floating hed at all | 23:02 |
daubers | directhex: You can see the same with Holly in Red Dwarf | 23:02 |
directhex | ;o | 23:02 |
daubers | (original early Holly anyway) | 23:02 |
directhex | RUINED! | 23:02 |
daubers | http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/181/621/911/gamesmaster-games-master-series-1-to-7-1edd.png <- What I think directhex really looks like | 23:02 |
directhex | i just said i lacked a monocle. KEEP UP AT THE BACK! | 23:03 |
daubers | Well, christmas is coming..... | 23:04 |
daftykins | i'm kind of impressed they managed to get Patrick Moore to do that job | 23:19 |
daftykins | doesn't seem quite befitting to his character... | 23:19 |
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