| YoBoY | hi godbyk, do you have some minutes to talk about the french punctuation for the ubuntu manual ? (but this can wait another day :) ) | 18:59 |
|---|---|---|
| godbyk | YoBoY: Sure! | 19:01 |
| YoBoY | great :) | 19:02 |
| godbyk | How can I help? | 19:03 |
| YoBoY | I'm trying to understand how polyglossia work, and I don't really understand. It seems the spaces inserted are only normal spaces, but I don't know if i'm testing this right ^^". | 19:04 |
| godbyk | It should insert thin or thick spaces depending on the punctuation. | 19:05 |
| godbyk | Thin spaces are used before ! ? !! ?? ?! !? and ; | 19:06 |
| YoBoY | yes for the ; it's \nobreak\thinspace and for : it's \nobreakspace | 19:06 |
| godbyk | Thick spaces are used before : | 19:06 |
| YoBoY | (reading it there : https://github.com/fc7/polyglossia/blob/master/tex/gloss-french.ldf ) | 19:07 |
| godbyk | And for quotation marks (guillemots), thick spaces are used. | 19:07 |
| godbyk | Yep, that's the file. | 19:07 |
| YoBoY | :) | 19:07 |
| YoBoY | but it seems the space sizes are the same on my pdf :] | 19:08 |
| godbyk | Hmm.. Can you point me to some examples? I'll take a look. | 19:08 |
| godbyk | Actually, give me a moment and I'll create a test document. | 19:08 |
| YoBoY | my test file : http://pastebin.com/WBVt8y95 | 19:10 |
| YoBoY | godbyk, ^ | 19:10 |
| YoBoY | (I'm a complete beginer in TeX things ^^") | 19:11 |
| YoBoY | ok sorry it's my eyes, I need to change them ^^" the ; have the correct space size | 19:13 |
| YoBoY | but the : don't have the correct one, it's a bug in polyglossia | 19:14 |
| godbyk | Give this one a shot: http://pastebin.com/ia4zV26b | 19:17 |
| godbyk | just compile it with xelatex. | 19:17 |
| godbyk | The difference between \thinspace and \nobreakspace is rather small. It's easy to miss it. | 19:18 |
| YoBoY | yes | 19:20 |
| YoBoY | when we use a \, it's smaller than the thinspace | 19:21 |
| godbyk | \thinspace and \, are exactly the same. | 19:23 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: My understanding is that there should be a thin space before semicolons, question marks, and exclamation marks, but a normal word space before the colon and inside guillemets. | 19:28 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: See this thread <http://typophile.com/node/94726#comment-516066> and the language note <http://www.microsoft.com/typography/developers/fdsspec/punc.aspx#period>. | 19:28 |
| YoBoY | second question for tonight, how can I test this sample file with the ubuntu-manual class ? (something to add on the xelatex commande ?) | 19:30 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: Here's a translation test file that I created for French: http://pastebin.com/vzXi5h7s | 19:32 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: You can add or remove text from it as you test things. | 19:32 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: You may also need to play with code in the um-french.clo file. | 19:32 |
| godbyk | That's where we put all of the French-specific LaTeX customizations. | 19:32 |
| YoBoY | yes I have removed the hack to deactivate the punctuation :p | 19:33 |
| YoBoY | thank you for the test file | 19:35 |
| godbyk | If you have any questions or run into any problems, let me know. I'm happy to help. | 19:35 |
| godbyk | Oh, you'll need to run that translation test file from the ubuntu manual directory (the one that contains the ubuntu-manual.cls file). | 19:35 |
| godbyk | Otherwise it won't be able to find that file. | 19:36 |
| YoBoY | I can enter it when xelatex ask it | 19:36 |
| YoBoY | but this is throwing an error ^^" | 19:36 |
| godbyk | Probably best to just run it from the ubuntu manual directory since it'll need the um-french.clo file from there, too. | 19:37 |
| YoBoY | yes, no more error like that | 19:37 |
| YoBoY | thanks | 19:37 |
| YoBoY | I'll add a sentence to see what appen when we already have spacings (like exemple1~; exemple2\,! ) | 19:40 |
| godbyk | It may double the spacing in some cases. | 19:40 |
| YoBoY | for a first test, (with an empty um-french.clo file) I can't see extra spaces | 19:51 |
| YoBoY | and the forced with or without a ~ polyglossia do the spacing work | 19:51 |
| godbyk | In some instances, Polyglossia tries to remove any existing space before adding the proper spacing. | 19:53 |
| YoBoY | ok | 19:53 |
| YoBoY | what I can see so far is, if we keep using [nbsp] in launchpad, polyglossia can do its job and replace the ~ by the right space, if we put \, polyglossia don't touch it. | 20:01 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: That sounds about right. | 20:04 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: The \, is actually a kern and not a space. | 20:04 |
| YoBoY | ok | 20:06 |
| YoBoY | we will try to have a clean um-french.clo for the raring release :) | 20:07 |
| godbyk | No problem. | 20:07 |
| godbyk | I just figured it'd be easier to let LaTeX handle the spacing instead of having the translators insert the spaces everywhere. | 20:07 |
| YoBoY | the thinspace width can be changed if needed by our great translators ? | 20:08 |
| godbyk | Yes. | 20:08 |
| godbyk | I can modify the spacing parameters used by Polyglossia for the French punctuation spacing. | 20:09 |
| godbyk | Instead of using \thinspace, for instance, we can create our own space value to use. | 20:09 |
| YoBoY | great :) | 20:10 |
| YoBoY | godbyk, thanks for everything. I'll continue my tests another day :) | 20:19 |
| godbyk | YoBoY: No problem. Have a nice evening! | 20:19 |
| YoBoY | thanks | 20:19 |
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