[08:15] <popey> morning
[08:25] <theopensourcerer> Meauning
[08:56] <diplo> Morning
[08:56] <AlanBell> morning
[09:07] <BigRedS> Morning!
[09:23] <czajkowski> morning folks!
[09:25]  * daubers makes the backup mailserver flush it's queues
[09:45] <JamesTait> Happy Monday!
[10:07] <SuperMatt> hmmm, we need a good anacronym for Linux, Nginx, Postgres and Django
[10:07] <SuperMatt> it doesn't have the same ring to is as LAMP
[10:07] <SuperMatt> or I could go with PUND: postgres, ubuntu, nginx and djago
[10:08] <SuperMatt> or should django be replaced with python, which means I could use NUPP as an anacronym
[10:09] <SuperMatt> oh oh oh
[10:10] <SuperMatt> PoNgLiPy
[10:13] <BigRedS> django counts as python, surely?
[10:13] <BigRedS> Otherwise lots of lamp would be something like damz, with Debian and Zend
[10:16] <SuperMatt> indeed
[10:19] <SuperMatt> I think polipyng sounds better, now I think about it
[10:24]  * BigRedS reboots into Roaring
[10:24] <BigRedS> or raring
[10:24] <BigRedS> whatever it is
[10:24] <czajkowski> mrevell: ello ello
[10:25] <BigRedS> Protip: If there's a [y/n] prompt, read what it's asking *before* hitting 'y'. I was not expecting that reboot
[10:26] <mrevell> Hi czajkowski
[10:27] <czajkowski> mrevell: get sorted with the t-shirts
[10:30] <diplo> heh BigRedS :P
[10:34] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/407451-sandisk-256gb-pulse-ssd-sdssdp-256g-g25
[10:34] <popey> getting cheap, these SSDs!
[10:38] <diplo> popey: yeah starting to get to the point I may buy one
[10:39] <SuperMatt> I bought a 125gigger about a year ago
[10:39] <diplo> Tempted by that one in the email this morning
[10:39] <SuperMatt> freaking love it
[10:39] <diplo> I'd like 2 really, but that may be pushing things to far
[10:39] <SuperMatt> I turn on my pc, sit down and it's at the log in prompt
[10:45]  * diplo would like that :)
[10:46] <Laney> best single upgrade
[10:46] <SuperMatt> I wish it was quite that good, but actually it takes an age to get through the bios
[10:46] <SuperMatt> but after that, it's pretty snappy
[10:47] <dwatkins> I lift the lid on my laptop and it's at the password prompt ;)
[10:48] <SuperMatt> oh yeah, I do that too on my laptop
[10:48] <SuperMatt> when the next price drop comes around, I might take the ssd out of my desktop, put it in my laptop, and put a larger ssd in the desktop
[10:49] <SuperMatt> 512G should be enough for the OS plus a few games
[10:50] <dwatkins> yeah, I'm very tempted to go with an SSD on my next machine (a desktop, so I can play games on it without getting burned fingers)
[10:51] <BigRedS> I love the fact that bioses appear to have not been developed at all in about 20 years
[10:51] <dwatkins> BigRedS: I thought EFI was effectively a replacement for that
[10:51] <BigRedS> Mine still takes about 8 seconds, and the one on my 90s thinkpad took about 10
[10:51] <BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah
[10:51] <dwatkins> then again, stuff not changing is often good, as PCs get faster the old stuff loads more quickly
[10:51] <BigRedS> but between about 1991 and whenever EFI started (this year?) the boot time in a Bios was horrendous
[10:52] <BigRedS> that tinycore thing took almost exactly zero time to boot
[10:52] <dwatkins> my netbook boots in 20 seconds, it spends 12 of those seconds in POST
[10:52] <BigRedS> though, that said, I still keep missing the 'hit <F12> for setup' message. Not sure I need faster bioses
[10:52] <dwatkins> I imagine I can probably improve that by turning off disk detection or something
[10:52] <directhex> BigRedS, bioses *can't* have changed significantly, or they cease to be BIOS
[10:53] <BigRedS> yeah, should be an "assume nothing has changed" switch
[10:53] <BigRedS> directhex: now you sound like mjg
[10:53] <directhex> BigRedS, the spec includes, e.g. wait times for drive detection
[10:53] <BigRedS> yeah, I think that's why the few faster alternatives don't claim to be bioses
[10:53] <BigRedS> but bios replacements
[10:54]  * dwatkins bops along to Pendulum
[10:55] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:56] <gord> popey, may be releavant to your interests http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-26-mojang-makes-bespoke-minecraft-for-the-scrumptious-raspberry-pi
[10:56] <popey> yeah :)
[10:58] <dwatkins> I'm interested to see if they're going to optimise Minecraft for the Pi, as that can only help users with not-so-fast PCs who currently have to put up with it having a very high CPU load.
[11:00] <gord> its pocket edition, not minecraft proper
[11:01] <dwatkins> ah ok, same as on mobile
[11:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:03] <davmor2> 3 weeks of emails kinda hurts
[11:05] <BigRedS> Minecraft for the raspberry pi? But it's in Java!
[11:05] <BigRedS> oh. pocket version
[11:11] <xnox> also java does run on armel
[11:13] <dubac0> hi does is there advice on MP4 and MP3 players compatibility with ubuntu?
[11:13] <AlanBell> BigRedS: that CPU even has hardware java accelleration
[11:13] <AlanBell> try cat /proc/cpuinfo on a pi
[11:13] <BigRedS> xnox: yeah, but it runs away with all your resources on a modern machine...
[11:14] <popey> I suspect it's a cut down version
[11:14] <AlanBell> it isn't used for anything, but it does have jazelle support
[11:15] <dubac0> would a Philips SA3MXX04WA/02  work with ubuntu?
[11:16] <AlanBell> dubac0: probably
[11:16] <popey> dubac0, hard to tell without someone trying it
[11:16] <popey> it _might_ be a mass storage device, or some odd MTP/PTP thing
[11:16] <popey> I'd ask the manufacturer :)
[11:17] <AlanBell> it is likely to be a mass storage device, it isn't new enough to be weird
[11:17] <davmor2> dubac0: Sansa Fuse
[11:18] <davmor2> dubac0: oh sorry I thought you were after a player
[11:18] <dubac0> popey, its and mp3 player
[11:19] <AlanBell> dubac0: yup, but from the point of view of the computer when you plug it in, it is probably just like a USB thumb drive
[11:19] <popey> dubac0, i know :)
[11:21] <dubac0> ok
[11:21] <dubac0> tack
[12:51] <MooDoo> hello all
[12:51] <brobostigon> hello MooDoo
[12:51] <davmor2> MooDoo: morning me owld mukka
[12:52] <MooDoo> davmor2: alright geeza, long time nah speak, how's it 'angin?
[12:53] <davmor2> MooDoo: still recovering from the email explosion that hit me email inbox after a week off, a week in London and then another week off machine is still currently sorting them :(  Flat is still partially upside down but I have a rad in office now woohoo!
[12:54] <MooDoo> flat?  you moved?
[12:55] <davmor2> MooDoo: no heating got updated by the council so we had to box everything up, then the week the work was done I was in London on a sprint and then a week off to unpack
[12:56] <MooDoo> davmor2: good luck then geeza lol
[12:57] <davmor2> MooDoo: we are in the upacking and sorting phase at the moment
[12:57] <MooDoo> davmor2: well glad to see you got your priorities right :D
[12:58] <davmor2> MooDoo: oh yes get the machines to do all the work ;)
[13:01] <MooDoo> :)
[13:12] <mungojerry> anyone like the cool name of that tory MP?
[13:12] <mungojerry> michael fabricant
[13:12] <mungojerry> sounds like something from terminator or blade runner
[13:14] <mungojerry> caption anyone? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/news-in-pictures-8026326.html?action=gallery&ino=13
[13:16] <dwatkins> "I can't see anything in this costume, can you?"
[13:16] <dwatkins> (helps to know that 'Aussichtsterrassen' means 'observation terrace')
[13:20] <davmor2_> mungojerry: and there was me thinking it was something you stuck in your washing machine to soften your washing :D
[13:21] <mungojerry> i can't see anything but that nice guy from apple said just keep walking straight ahead and we'll find it
[13:28] <dwatkins> 'move along'?
[13:39] <BigRedS_> I'm after a case for my kindle that means I can chuck it in an overfull bag with reckless abandon and it probably wont break. Any suggestions?
[13:39] <mungojerry> my wife has a nice cheap padded one
[13:40] <BigRedS_> yeah, I'm pondering those. Or making some crazy wooden box for it
[13:40] <mungojerry> missis got hers from tesco
[13:40] <BigRedS_> Everything that claims to protect it seems to assume my worry is a scratched screen, not a cracked one
[13:41] <BigRedS_> But my current 'solution' of a tupperware contaier works really well, excpet for being about 12 times thicker than the kindle
[13:52]  * popey stabs his acer revo
[13:54] <einonm> BigRedS_:  I used an old heavy  leather diary cover for mine. Worked a treat, until it conked out
[14:08] <mungojerry> i saw popey on a bbc news article t'other day
[14:09] <mungojerry> trying to find it again
[14:10] <SuperMatt> why would you subject yourself to such torture *again*?
[14:10]  * davmor2_ watches popey get catapulted across the room from the electric shock from stabbing said revo
[14:12] <mungojerry> popey, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20452192
[14:12] <mungojerry> is that you?
[14:14] <daubers> mungojerry: That really does look suspiciously like popey......
[14:15] <mungojerry> yeah
[14:15] <mungojerry> more popey than elvis
[14:20] <popey> can't be me, it's public transport
[14:23] <davmor2> popey: looks like a London double decker and I know you don't drive to London ;)
[14:24] <popey> lies
[14:24] <popey> I love driving in London
[14:25] <mungojerry> there are popey replicas among us
[14:25] <shauno> I think he's just spreading disinformation
[14:25] <daubers> BEWARE THE POPELICANTS!
[14:26] <daubers> In just 5 years time, 90% of the earths surface will be covered with them!
[14:26]  * daubers goes to find a tinfoil hat and a shotgun
[14:26] <mungojerry> yes, it's a weak argument
[14:26] <popey> \o/ fixed revo
[14:26]  * popey unstabs it
[14:32] <davmor2> popey: reheheally I think you LIE! nobody enjoys driving in London fullstop :P
[14:32] <popey> i do :)
[14:32] <popey> always have
[14:33] <davmor2> popey: also if you look really carefully you'll notice that the guy in the picture has a horrendous Hawaiian Shirt on under that Coat :D
[14:34]  * daubers has to go to London tomorrow :(
[14:34] <daubers> Client is somewhere near Kensington, so I think I might accidentally end up in the Science Museum while trying to find Paddington on the way home
[14:40] <davmor2> daubers: but paddington is really easy to find he is the only bear I know in a duffel coat and trilby hat
[14:40] <daubers> davmor2: Just follow the marmalade paw prints?
[14:41] <davmor2> daubers: or set up a sandwich trap
[15:09] <AlanBell> mrevell: have you met the entry requirements for https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical ?
[15:09] <mrevell> AlanBell, I suppose i have :)
[15:10] <popey> :)
[15:11] <AlanBell> gosh, well congratulations on the new role :)
[15:12] <daubers> what is mrevell doing now?
[15:13] <mrevell> Thanks AlanBell :)
[15:13] <davmor2> mrevell: is breaking databases now ermmmm promoting I always get them confused ;)
[15:13] <mrevell> daubers, I'm Community Manager for EMEA at Basho, the people behind the open source schema-less database Riak.
[15:14] <mrevell> davmor2, Helping other people break them :)
[15:14] <AlanBell> which is like couchdb, except in erlang, like couchdb is
[15:14] <AlanBell> as far as I can make out
[15:14] <czajkowski> daubers: you're in london tomorrow, mrevell has an event on in london tomrorow
[15:15] <daubers> czajkowski: I hope to only be in London for precisley 120 minutes, 30 minutes of tubes, 30 minutes of dealing with a customer and 60 minutes of the science museum :)
[15:15] <daubers> (60 minutes too many IMHO)
[15:15] <czajkowski> bah
[15:15] <mrevell> AlanBell, Riak is a key value store and has an emphasis on scalability and availability, which is really quite unlike CouchDB ;)
[15:15] <mrevell> heh
[15:15] <mrevell> AlanBell, But yeah, same sort of thing … a NoSQL db
[15:16] <daubers> mrevell: So "Big Data" stuffs really then?
[15:16] <AlanBell> I was doing NoSQL for many years, until it became fashionable
[15:16] <mrevell> I'm sure I still have my Lotus Notes client licence somewhere...
[15:16] <AlanBell> yeah, that was me :)
[15:17] <AlanBell> I knew Damien Katz a bit
[15:18] <mrevell> Erlang seems pretty cool, actually. One of my personal goals for next year is to get Riak into Universe.
[15:18] <davmor2> daubers: 60 minutes too many you want to drop the tube and customer bit then?
[15:18] <daubers> davmor2: Exactley
[15:19] <daubers> davmor2: I'm pretty sure remote desktop was invented to help me avoid ever having to go to London
[15:19] <popey> mrevell, pimped to greater london linux user group?
[15:19] <davmor2> daubers: just get yourself a job as night security at the science museum and set up a bunk in the cellar done right?
[15:19] <mrevell> popey, Yeah, I sent a mail along earlier at czajkowski's suggestion.
[15:20] <daubers> davmor2: Too much time in London then
[15:20] <popey> ah, ok
[15:21] <BigRedS> I've a 'proper' ubuntu 12.10 'server edition' CD from a goodie bag at UDS. IS it probably a LiveCD?
[15:21] <AlanBell> BigRedS: nope, server isn't
[15:22] <BigRedS> bah
[15:22]  * BigRedS has a new coaster
[15:22] <BigRedS> :)
[15:22] <popey> ooh, i dont have one of them
[15:22] <popey> need to update my collection
[15:23] <BigRedS> do you want this one? I guess you can get hold of them pretty easily
[15:25] <popey> nah, its okay
[15:25] <davmor2> BigRedS: the clue is in the title the desktop ones tend to say desktop ;)
[15:25] <kvarley> When launching TF2 via Steam I get the following message in the terminal window - "You appear to have OpenGL 1.4.0, but we need at least 2.0.0!" How can I upgrade my opengl version?
[15:26] <kvarley> I'm using fglrx-updates on Ubuntu 12.10. 64bit installation.
[15:26] <BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I just wondered if the ones given out were more, er, friendly?
[15:31] <davmor2> kvarley: that might be the Opengl supported by your gfx driver rather than the version installed maybe, I could be wrong though
[15:32] <kvarley>  davmor2: Ah ok. I have no idea how to fix it. Only thing I can think of is trying the beta driver from AMD. But I know if I upgrade to that I can no longer control screen brightness so I don't want to do that if possible.
[15:33] <gord> kvarley, pastebin the output of glxinfo
[15:33] <gord> will need to install mesa-utils to get that binary
[15:34] <kvarley> gord: mesa-utils wasn't installed, is that bad?
[15:34] <gord> its normal
[15:35] <kvarley> gord: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1389202/
[15:35] <kvarley> gord: "server glx version string: 1.4" means opengl 1.4 ?
[15:37] <gord> kvarley, your gpu/driver supports gl 4.0. it looks like a bug in valves code in how they look up opengl, tell them to stop being crap
[15:38] <gord> or send a bug if you can, they probably appreciate that more
[15:38] <kvarley> gord: hehe :) thanks for the help
[16:15] <BigRedS> I keep seeing 'devops' job ads that don't mention any particular language for the 'dev' half. Have I misunderstood what devops is?
[16:20] <diplo> BigRedS: Anything/everything ?
[16:20] <diplo> Pretty much my job is like that
[16:29] <AlanBell> http://interviews.slashdot.org/story/12/11/26/1410236/ask-mark-shuttleworth-anything
[16:30] <AlanBell> or just, um, ask Mark anything by emailing him or pinging him on IRC
[16:30] <AlanBell> I guess this is "ask Mark anything with an audience looking at what you are asking"
[16:32] <SuperMatt> slashdot is the most vocally anti-ubuntu website out there. I can't see this going over to well
[16:36] <BigRedS> does he normally answer questions emailed at him? If I had a question for him, I'm not sure I'd expect to be able to just email him about it
[16:38] <popey> AlanBell, it's going where the users are
[16:38] <popey> if there were any users left looking at /. of course :)
[16:39]  * AlanBell looks at slashdot still
[16:39] <AlanBell> BigRedS: sure he does, he is very responsive
[16:40] <davmor2> AlanBell: yeah but you got way too much time on your hands ;)
[16:40] <AlanBell> or just ask him stuff on IRC if you see sabdfl online
[16:40] <AlanBell> helps if you have something worth asking of course
[16:40] <AlanBell> davmor2: I just haven't got the hang of reddit
[16:41] <davmor2> AlanBell: red....what ;)
[16:41] <BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, I don't, but I still wouldn't expect that to be a thing he does. I can see why people don't just email him questions and instead use an 'Ask Mark' session
[16:42] <BigRedS> Haha, reddit's currently my biggest time sink, I think
[16:42] <popey> its /. not reddit, the AMA on reddit hasn't happened yet AIUI
[16:43] <AlanBell> davmor2: indeed, it is a very old fashioned looking web forum thing, with no particular features that make it suitable for real time interaction, but it is surprisingly popular
[16:43] <BigRedS> Yeah, I just thought the conversation had shifted to reddit
[16:43] <AlanBell> which is critisism that could also apply to slashdot
[16:45] <BigRedS> "old fashioned" isn't criticism!
[16:45] <popey> cf: mailing lists :)
[16:46] <AlanBell> mailing lists are more suited to real time discussions than web forums
[16:46] <BigRedS> real time?
[16:46] <popey> depends on the user
[16:46] <AlanBell> interactive
[16:47] <popey> I've seen people send mails to lists and then reply immediately with "bump" to speed up responses
[16:47] <popey> because they were seen as slow compared to forums
[16:47] <AlanBell> I have unread marks and don't have to refresh the page to see new stuff inserted into threads
[16:47] <BigRedS> mailing lists are more threaded than most forums, but other than that the real-timeliness seems about the same
[16:47] <popey> I am not going to argue with you about lists vs forums
[16:47] <popey> i hate forums
[16:47] <popey> but other people like them
[16:47] <popey> strangely
[16:48] <SuperMatt> I hate forums *and* mailing lists
[16:48] <AlanBell> yup, forums would be fine if they had unread marks and AJAX insertion of new content
[16:48] <SuperMatt> tbh, I hate email
[16:49] <BigRedS> On unthreaded forums you can usually go to the first unread message
[16:50] <BigRedS> but threaded ones tend to not know which bits of the page you've read yet
[16:50] <SuperMatt> one that did it well was b3ta.com. It'd put a little mark next to anything which wasn't there the last time you looked at the page
[16:50] <AlanBell> exactly, and to get new stuff you have to refresh the page, and it doesn't distinguish between stuff you just read, and the new bits
[16:50] <popey> \o/
[16:50] <popey> i recall this argument some 8 years ago :)
[16:51] <BigRedS> haha
[16:51] <BigRedS> yeah, I think the use cases are normally different enough that people who like forums don't want them to be like mailing lists
[16:51] <BigRedS> AlanBell: to get the new stuff from a mailing list you have to switch to the next message...
[16:53] <AlanBell> yeah, this is an old argument, I was just hoping that someone would tell me I am an idiot and missed the "turn on unread marks and ajax" button somewhere
[16:53] <popey> has nobody seriously made a forum which does ajax?
[16:54] <mgdm> I'm sure there are a few
[16:54] <popey> i wrote a screenscraper once which ripped posts from ubuntu forums and put them in a db, so you could then do what you want with them, put them into a news group or mail
[16:57] <davmor2> popey: surely you want a forum that uses vim not ajax ;)
[16:58] <X3N> Has planet ubuntu uk been killed off?
[16:58] <BigRedS> an ajaxy forum would irritate the crap out of me. I already dislike it when Twitter breaks my scroll bar
[16:58] <popey> i try to force myself to use vim
[16:58] <popey> yes X3N
[16:58] <X3N> booooo
[16:59] <popey> like those apple keynotes where the news sites do ajaxy autorefreshy page things
[16:59] <popey> we should do that ;)
[17:00] <mgdm> 'Ajax' doesn't have to mean 'breaks scroll bars'
[17:00] <AlanBell> yup, like that, but threaded and with context
[17:00] <mgdm> that's only when people do it wrong
[17:00] <mgdm> it doesn't automatically require infinite scrolling or whatever
[17:00] <AlanBell> nope, just event based DOM manipulation
[17:01]  * AlanBell wonders if mrevell knows if riak has callbacks like the couchdb streaming stuff
[17:01] <AlanBell> something like this would be handy http://guide.couchdb.org/draft/notifications.html
[17:03] <davmor2> AlanBell: go to the event and ask the people who would know ;)
[17:03] <AlanBell> yeah, might do
[17:05] <BigRedS> mgdm: no, but I assumed that automatically inserting posts in threads would break my scrollbar
[17:05] <BigRedS> Perhaps it wont - there are many very good reasons I don't do websites, and this may well be one of them :)
[17:06] <AlanBell> BigRedS: doubt it, much less than inserting a chunk of content at the bottom of the page
[17:08] <BigRedS> Ah, fair enough. I'll maintain my enforced distance from anything to do with UI design :)
[17:08] <AlanBell> just installed couchdb, might prototype something later
[17:08] <BigRedS> Actually, that's a lie. I intend to spend this evening interfering with somebody else's JS...
[17:08]  * AlanBell hugs apt-get
[17:30] <daubers> Hooray! Something small to cheer me up, off to look at a kitten this evening
[17:42] <brianb> hi need some help with getting flash player working in both firefox and google chrome on ubuntu 12.04
[17:43] <AlanBell> hi brianb
[17:43] <AlanBell> !flash
[17:44] <brianb> i have flash installed well according to google chrome but it will not load
[17:46] <AlanBell> chrome is a bit different as flash is built in to that
[17:48] <brianb> if i type chrome://plugins and expand the details i can see Adobe Flash player with the corresponding version and its enabled
[17:49] <brianb> but when i try and stream say bbc live news all i get is flash player is not loaded
[17:49] <AlanBell> Flash - Version: 11.2 r202
[17:49] <AlanBell> that version?
[17:49] <brianb> yes
[17:50] <AlanBell> dunno if it will help, but you could try closing all chrome windows, then running it from a terminal and seeing if there is any informative output when you view flash sites
[17:51] <brianb> its the same version as used in firefox
[17:51] <brianb> i think therev is a compatibility problem with ubuntu
[17:51] <AlanBell> works for me
[17:52] <AlanBell> in chromium and chrome and firefox
[17:52] <brianb> both 10.10 and 12.04 will not play a flash stream
[17:52] <AlanBell> I am using 12.10 but I get the same version of flash
[17:53] <brianb> well flah works on the same machine when booted to windows xp
[17:53] <AlanBell> how did you install flash?
[17:53] <AlanBell> via ubuntu-restricted-extras, or the tickbox on the installer or something else?
[17:54] <brianb> via the ubuntu site
[17:54] <brianb> tick box on the software instaler
[17:55] <AlanBell> ok, it should just work then :)
[17:55] <AlanBell> in a terminal can you type ls -l /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
[17:55] <brianb> ok so if i go into a terminal can i completely uninstall flash and then reinstall
[17:55] <AlanBell> and tell me if you see as the first line lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root     37 Nov  9 08:23 flashplugin-alternative.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin
[17:57] <brianb> yes but the date is 2012-11-26
[17:57] <AlanBell> ok, that doesn't matter
[17:58] <brianb> also have some entries for totem
[17:58] <AlanBell> you can do sudo apt-get install flashplugin-installer
[17:59] <AlanBell> or sudo apt-get remove flashplugin-installer
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> not purge?
[17:59] <AlanBell> that too
[17:59] <AlanBell> sudo apt-get purge flashplugin-installer
[17:59] <AlanBell> but I am not really expecting that to make a heap of difference
[18:00] <brianb> have removed the flash as you suggested
[18:01] <brianb> looking at the first line it still has the flash plugin
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> you need to restart the browser after installing or removing a plugin
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> Chrome comes with its own copy of flash built in
[18:02] <brianb> so having used the remove cmd what should i do next
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> Restart your web browser.
[18:02] <brianb> chrome:?
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> Firefox
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> Chrome has its own flash built in, if that doesn't work, that's very strange
[18:04] <AlanBell> chrome should use /opt/google/chrome/PepperFlash/libpepflashplayer.so
[18:04] <brianb> well firefox will not display any flash player say on the BBC site
[18:05] <brianb> and looking at the plugin tab flash is still there
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> brianb: After restarting? You must have some other Flash plugin installed.
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> brianb: one of the "alternative" Flash replacements
[18:06] <brianb> shockwave flash
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> brianb: it should list the name of the plugin as "something.so"
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> brianb: can you copy that name here?
[18:06] <brianb> where in the terminal or looking at the plugin tab on firefox
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> in the Plugins tab
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> it has "Shockwave Flash" -> "File: something.so", "Version: etc."
[18:07] <brianb> shockwave flash 11.2r202
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> How did you install Flash initially?
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> Did you restart the browser?
[18:07] <brianb> yes started browser
[18:08] <MartijnVdS> you closed all Firefox windows?
[18:08] <brianb> i guess initally it was installed when ubuntu was installed
[18:10] <brianb> can i get rid of flash in chrome and in firfox and then restart again
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> uhh
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> you can't get rid of Flash in Chrome
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> because Chrome comes with its own copy of Flash
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> which is not in the same location as the copy Firefox uses
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> they're completely separate
[18:16] <brianb> ok so if chrome was uninstalled leaving just firefox then if i can get flash to work in firfox by installing a version that does work then it would suggest that the version built into chrome was at fault
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> brianb: No
[18:16] <brianb> why
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> brianb: The flash that is built into Chrome is completely separate from the one in Firefox
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> Firefox can't use the Chrome Flash plugin
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> Chrome won't use the other (Firefox) one
[18:17] <brianb> so why are both browsers showning the same version plugin
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> Because that's the latest version
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> with all security fixes, etc.
[18:18] <brianb> well can i drop back to a early version
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> unlikely
[18:18] <AlanBell> two copies of the same thing in different places and with different plugin systems
[18:18] <brianb> ]why
[18:18] <AlanBell> this is really odd
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: That's how Chrome's plugin stuff works
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> well the Pepper ones
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> My Chrome has:
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> Shockwave Flash 11.5 r31
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> my Firefox has:
[18:19] <AlanBell> flash always just works now
[18:19] <MartijnVdS>      Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> so my Chrome plugin version is newer
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> are you use you're using Chrome, not Chromium?
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> (Chromium doesn't come with Flash)
[18:19] <brianb> ok how do i check in the terminal what version chrome
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> brianb: in Chrome, go to chrome://plugins/
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> brianb: version of Chrome: chrome://chrome
[18:21] <brianb> the installed version is googtle chrome 23.0.1271.64
[18:22] <brianb> Flash is: 11.2 r202
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> brianb: I'm running the beta, so that might be why I have a newer Flash as well
[18:23] <brianb> ok so if thee are two different plugins required one for flash and one for mozilla why does mozilla have the same version of flash
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> It's not like that
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> Mozilla requires one copy of the Flash plugin, Chrome comes with another (its own) and the systems are not compatible
[18:24] <brianb> well what version flash will work with mozilla
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> The one in the package should
[18:25]  * MartijnVdS hasn't had Flash problems since.. 9.10 or something?
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> that's Ubuntu 9.10
[18:32] <brianb> ok i have to disappear for a few hours do you have any suggestions?
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> brianb:
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash
[19:26] <kvarley> How is screen brightness controlled? Is it handled by the graphics driver?
[19:31] <jacobw> kvarley: usually by the backlight
[19:32] <kvarley> jacobw: Yes but what software manages it when you use the function keys?
[19:32] <kvarley> I'm afraid that if I upgrade to the latest beta driver I will loose the ability to adjust screen brightness as currently I'm using samsung-tools (a workaround package_
[19:40] <jacobw> kvarley: try it, roll back if it doesn't work :)
[19:40] <jacobw> kvarley: i'm fairly confident that there won't be a problem
[19:41] <kvarley> jacobw: Hehe, ok. I will try it when I have some free time. Need my laptop tomorrow so will do it after thats done :) thanks for the help
[20:10] <davmor2> night all
[20:18] <popey> evening
[20:50] <jacobw> evening popey
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> \o
[21:00] <jacobw> o/
[21:01] <bokjhv> Has anyone else's Firefox mucked up with Firefox 17 ?
[21:02] <shauno> 17?  I'm still on 3.6
[21:02] <bokjhv> oh Ok
[21:03] <bokjhv> None of the bookmarks work at all......
[21:03] <jacobw> what does work?
[21:03] <bokjhv> hang-on..
[21:04] <bokjhv> nothing just seems to have totally screwed up  .. cannot connect anywhere .. and yes I am connected.
[21:05]  * bokjhv has friends in low places :)
[21:05] <jacobw> layer 2?
[21:08] <AlanBell> bokjhv: anything daft like proxy settings set?
[21:08] <AlanBell> or not set, as the case may be
[21:09] <bootinfdsds> Woow  .. just disconnected for no reason ... ??
[21:09] <bootinfdsds> Hi Alan .. I did reset the router password .. BTW chrome works fine.
[21:09] <AlanBell> yeah, but firefox can have different proxy settings
[21:09] <bootinfdsds> I could reinstall firefox ?
[21:09] <bootinfdsds> right, dunno.. how to proceed ..
[21:12] <jacobw> bootinfdsds: http://173.194.41.78
[21:12]  * AlanBell decides to proceed with a large glass of wine
[21:13] <bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Are you sure it's todo with proxy settings . It's never been an issue before...
[21:13] <bootinfdsds> jacobw, OK hang-on.
[21:13] <AlanBell> I have no idea what it relates to bootinfdsds, I was kind of expecting you to say "oh, yes oops I had a proxy at work earlier" or "nope, I never go anywhere near a network with a proxy"
[21:13] <popey> \o/ wine
[21:14] <bootinfdsds> Yeah, I cannot load any webpage at all .. A glass of Merlot sounds nice though. Anyway I guess I'm re-installing firefox, then.
[21:15] <jacobw> bootinfdsds: what error do you see?
[21:15] <bootinfdsds> jacobw, Just the basic "Firefox can't find the server at uk.finance.yahoo.com." error for my homepage .
[21:16] <bootinfdsds> just means nothing is loading.
[21:16] <jacobw> bootinfdsds: did you see the same error for my link?
[21:16] <bootinfdsds> yep.
[21:16] <AlanBell> file-work offline is not ticked is it?
[21:16] <bootinfdsds> hang-on
[21:17] <AlanBell> though that would give a different error message
[21:17] <AlanBell> "Firefox is currently in offline mode and can't browse the Web."
[21:17] <bootinfdsds> no.
[21:17] <bootinfdsds> I'm going to bite the hedgehog and re-install.
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> poor hedgehog
[21:19] <bootinfdsds> always thought it would have been a bettr linux symbol,    see.
[21:20] <jacobw> bootinfdsds: start firefox with alt+f2 → `firefox -P --no-remote`, make a new profile, and see if you can browse then
[21:21] <bootinfdsds> great, I'm getting PM's now from Warisistan .. great.
[21:26] <bootinfdsds> OK .. got it back .. checked if all works with this little gem :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GR4Qz3-PNo
[21:26] <bootinfdsds> worx good.
[21:28] <bootinfdsds> AlanBell, I noticed your lovely clip on Ubuntu TV mailing list .. are you going to the Meeting on the 30th at 6pm UTC ??
[21:28] <AlanBell> oh possibly
[21:29] <AlanBell> have the TV team found an OEM or reference platform yet?
[21:29] <bootinfdsds> .. I remembered because you were at the Ubuntu TV youtube vid.
[21:29] <bootinfdsds> err .. not that I know.
[21:30] <bootinfdsds> I thnk everyon's eyes are on the Nexus 7 input atmo.
[21:30] <AlanBell> TV isn't the most exciting area for me to participate with tbh
[21:30] <AlanBell> I rarely watch TV and I am perfectly happy with sky+ for the stuff I do watch
[21:31] <bootinfdsds> Yeah, me too.. but I thnk it is a brill. concept.
[21:31] <bootinfdsds> I chucked out my tv in spring .. it bounced.
[21:32] <bootinfdsds> Still pay the feckin' license thou ...
[21:32] <AlanBell> I know there are lots of people who are keen on TV and games and stuff, which is fine, I am just not that into it, and don't see what it has to do with computing really :)
[21:32]  * bootinfdsds has grinted teeth towards BBC-brother
[21:33] <bootinfdsds> It's just a bigger monitor to most people don't you agree ( in concept anyway) ??
[21:35] <bootinfdsds> We have a local TV shop going out of business here. I just thought with the right training that the guy who calls round (cable guy) could be able to fix Ubuntu TV too. ??
[21:36] <AlanBell> well arguably yes it is a 1920x1080 monitor, but I think for most people it is Eastenders and Corrie in a box
[21:36] <bootinfdsds> although I imagine that could be done remotely in most cases.
[21:37] <bootinfdsds> True, but I'm thinking more Khan Academy .. I think Ubuntu is more of a different UX than Mr Sugar intended the sky-box to be.
[21:39] <AlanBell> well if smart TVs get people watching kahn Academy and TED talks then I am all for it!
[21:39] <bootinfdsds> If you look at the Xtreamer box , which is basically a load of pre-recorded channels set up on a small atom linux box, you'll see the potential. Just needs less of a $300 price tag.
[21:39] <bootinfdsds> TED talks .. seen any good one's recently ?
[21:41] <bootinfdsds> Oh, BTW for everyone else out there , I got a full pack of Frosted shredded wheat from Tesco's for 70p today .. Lasting 5 days or so , I'm getting 20 boxes tomorrow to stock up for the winterisation. Just a thought.
[21:41] <AlanBell> http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research.html
[21:41] <bootinfdsds> usu. cost £2
[21:42] <bootinfdsds> opening...
[21:42] <AlanBell> that was quite a good one, watched it earlier
[21:42] <AlanBell> but they are all awesome
[21:43] <bootinfdsds> quite true, alan.
[21:43] <shauno> bootinfdsds: we'll heard 'round yours when the zombies come then ;)
[21:43] <AlanBell> I need to do more preparation for the zombie apocalypse
[21:44] <shauno> just keep track of who else is stocking up.  you never know when a frosties cache could come in handy
[21:46] <shauno> way I see it, you stockpile, and you're tied down.  you know who else is stocked up, and you're mobile with options
[21:48] <bootinfdsds> shauno, I'm just waiting for the Zombie Apocolypse I guess .. AlanBell , here my fav. http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
[21:50] <bootinfdsds> nice guy from place where Shakespere came from .. where was it again ?
[21:54] <AlanBell> also like the strandbeast one
[21:54] <AlanBell> http://www.ted.com/talks/theo_jansen_creates_new_creatures.html
[21:55] <bootinfdsds> AlanBell, i had a long hard swmoke about the Ü-TV thingy .. I think Mark's revelation was that more people have TV's than PC-boxes  ..and TV's do have CPU's of sorts ..  the pacman is going after the chips
[21:56] <bootinfdsds> maybe a square peg in a round hole though, I quite agree .
[21:58] <shauno> the problem with trying to fix TV for me, is that most my issues with it are too deeply entrenched
[21:59] <bootinfdsds> how so ?
[22:00] <shauno> most my frustrations boil down to geographic content licensing.  so I can't watch a show from 'there' because they only have the rights to show it 'there'
[22:00] <bootinfdsds> I can't wait to se the day when we get a USB stick stuck on the front of the Radio Times :)
[22:00] <popey> hah, i like that idea
[22:01] <bootinfdsds> popey, Yeah what /did/ happen the that Mini-disc (DVD) idea ?
[22:02] <shauno> I like the idea of all channels being provided as 'apps' of sorts.  and leave free/subscription/in-app purchases down to what suits the provider's model best.
[22:03] <bootinfdsds> popey sorry meant to say Mini-DVD ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_disk_storage.svg
[22:03] <shauno> abstract out ad-delivery to a third-party, google-ads style, so if I want to watch an american ad-supported network in the UK, the advert provider feeds me british adverts so the american network still gets their pennies per eyeballs
[22:03] <popey> I'm happy to work around this crap with VPNs personally
[22:03] <popey> I just finally got xbmc working perfectly at home
[22:03] <bootinfdsds> shauno, It's just an extra VPN subscription to do all that. usu. £5 a month.
[22:04] <shauno> right.  so I pay ntl to be able to watch bbc on my tv, and then another provider so I can vpn to watch it on my laptop
[22:05] <popey> also usenet
[22:05] <bootinfdsds> if it is americae, yes.
[22:05] <shauno> pay for netflix, and then pay for a up-based vpn so that it actually has some content
[22:05] <shauno> *us-based
[22:05] <bootinfdsds> true, quite true.
[22:06] <popey> its all very wrong
[22:06] <shauno> I end up paying for everything twice.  pay once for the content, and then again to unbreak it
[22:07] <bootinfdsds> Word is, in the local pub , some guy is making a fortune making people use 'special codes' to get Netflix USA , when in fact it is only VPN he sets up for them. :)
[22:07] <shauno> and good luck trying to find a vpn/vps provider in slovakia so my gf can watch tv from home
[22:08] <bootinfdsds> Well spotify went web-based after all.
[22:08] <bootinfdsds> shauno, You can just steam it with the laptop in front of the tele. can't you ?
[22:09] <bootinfdsds> **stream
[22:09] <shauno> if I can come up with a slovak IP so it lets me, yeah :)
[22:09] <bootinfdsds> just use her's.
[22:09] <bootinfdsds> or the bamboo telegraph :)
[22:13] <bootinfdsds> Apparently this works ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOuhinyGhrY
[22:14] <shauno> it doesn't help that I'm in ireland, so I'm paying in both directions.  I don't get iplayer for free with some minor hoops for american content
[22:14] <bootinfdsds> Oh OK, your with the right provider thou. NTL is good.
[22:15] <shauno> they're less evil than eircom.  but phone companies don't tend to set the bar too high for evil.
[22:15] <directhex> i dunno, i'm with BT
[22:15] <directhex> they're pretty evil
[22:15] <directhex> that said, my BT line has worked far better than any previous ISP i've had
[22:17] <bootinfdsds> Brilliant BT helpline intro ... http://open.spotify.com/track/14QIAOdHU2moF53egeO6RS
[22:18] <directhex> oh, i haven't had to *call* them, thank $deity
[22:18] <bootinfdsds> good 4 you .
[22:18] <AlanBell> I kind of like plusnet. The line is from BT, and PlusNet are my agent for shouting at BT on my behalf.
[22:20] <bootinfdsds> Oh Ok .. sounds good in theory, anyway.
[22:21] <bootinfdsds> So is anyone getting a Nexus 7 for christmas this year ?
[22:21]  * bootinfdsds has been too naughty :(
[22:22] <bootinfdsds> it was on the linux action show recently.
[22:23] <bootinfdsds> Can't wait for birthday in february though ><
[22:25] <bootinfdsds> I re-discovered some Ubuntu books on TPB today   .. typical naughty stuff as per usual.
[22:28] <bootinfdsds> I think oreilly media has a 50 % off sale for pdf's until 6am on Tuesday (Tomorrow).
[22:31] <bootinfdsds> probably take debit card, me thinks.
[22:32] <bootinfdsds> popey, have you seen any other games other than 'space-suit zero' that are linux-bound on kickstarter recently ??
[22:36] <bootinfdsds> I am slightly dissappointed that there isn't a Raspberry Pi channel on freenode .. or not AFAIK
[22:36] <AlanBell> there is7
[22:36] <bootinfdsds> go on .. called.
[22:36] <AlanBell> 373 people in #raspberrypi
[22:37] <bootinfdsds> checking...
[22:38] <bootinfdsds> nothing is coming up .. hang-on.
[22:39] <AlanBell> odd, maybe you have to be registered or something
[22:39] <AlanBell> bootinfdsds: you typed /join #raspberrypi or similar?
[22:39] <bootinfdsds> yeah, that's it.
[22:40] <AlanBell> !register
[22:40] <bootinfdsds> just not registered
[22:40] <AlanBell> gah, the bots are offline
[22:40] <bootinfdsds> registering ...
[22:44] <bootinfdsds> Wow .. just checked my email and I have a message from Stallman ..
[22:46] <popey> does it mention parrots?
[22:47] <bootinfdsds> no but there's a giraffe in it :)
[22:48] <bootinfdsds> popey, did you see my question 15 minutes ago  ??
[22:49] <Azelphur> so, I just got the keys to my new flat, anyone good at home automation on a budget? I need to pimp all the things. :D
[22:50] <popey> which question bootinfdsds ?
[22:50] <bootinfdsds> oooow .. home improvements  .. try hue lighting first.
[22:50] <bootinfdsds> kickstarter @22:32pm
[22:51] <popey> oh, yes, a few
[22:53] <bootinfdsds> It'd be nice if you could Google Plus afew for everyone, and you are more of a bettr judge as to whether it'll work on Ubuntu, or not
[22:54]  * bootinfdsds 's frosted shredded wheat addiction is cooling off for today, at last
[23:00] <bootinfdsds> OK .. off to beddsie's .. sorry to bore you all.
[23:00] <popey> oooh golly
[23:00] <popey> shredded wheat
[23:00] <popey> not had that for a while
[23:01]  * popey sends an email to wifey to enact "shredded wheat" in the next shop
[23:01] <bootinfdsds> popey .. see 21:41pm entry.
[23:01] <bootinfdsds> bye
[23:02] <popey> ttfn
[23:03] <popey> hahah
[23:14] <bootinfdsds> popey, no the one about shredded wheat before that ... ok defo off 2 bed now. bye
[23:25] <popey> bootinfdsds, yeah, that's what I was laughing at :)
[23:40] <czajkowski> popey: it;s gonna end up on your shopping list for saturday!
[23:59] <popey> Oh yes, it is!
[23:59] <popey> I want some now
[23:59]  * popey gets weetabix instead