[00:26] What's the process for fixing language-pack-kde-ja? It depends on calligra-l10n-ja, which doesn't exist in raring. [00:29] ScottK: oh that'll be because I ran build-l10n.sh on precise [00:29] where calligra-l10n-ja does exist so it did the wrong thing [00:29] Can you fix? [00:29] probably just a manual fix and upload is the best way, I'll do it in the morning [03:51] ScottK, shadeslayer: pfff, not my fault that upstream has a problem with its own library policy :P [03:52] Right, but you knew that too ... [03:53] yeah, wasn't aware until after I uploaded though [03:53] I mean as a general rule. [03:53] When did they even not break stuff? [03:54] well, generally speaking digikam has no business using libkdcraw [03:54] * ScottK grumbles about people not reading what he carefully writes in the pad. [03:54] what with it not being meant to be compatible I'd argue digikam should not use it [03:54] just like nothing should use the workspace libs [03:54] Well, except it's the same people doing digikam and libkdcraw. [03:55] The alternative is it's just embedded in Digikam and then nothing in KDE SC can use it. [03:55] That or someone go beat them with a stick until they comprehend proper library management. [03:55] digikam has code copies of other crap, so... [03:56] * ScottK is carefully not looking. [03:56] :P [03:56] "You need the version from Debian experimental, but fixed to use external libs instead of the internal code copies." [03:56] * ScottK goes and checks the laundry while Calligra 2.6 RC2 builds. [03:56] ScottK: IMHO the fixing there ought not be done [03:57] either we accept it as it is or throw it out of ubuntu on the basis of having a shitty tarball [03:57] apachelogger: Yes. It's got an internal copy of libkexiv. [03:57] 2 [03:57] They release it that way prior to the KDE SC release because they depend on the unreleased version. [03:58] there is little incentive for upstream to get their act together if we keep making the crap pile shipable [03:58] I think it's reasonably well established that they don't care. [03:58] so why should we? [03:59] Because code copies are a bad idea. Bloats everything and we want to give our users a good experience and keep the archive maintainable. [03:59] yes, I say we simply stop distributing digikam on accounts of shitty tarball [04:00] The Digikam build system is designed to work with the external libs, so it's not like major surgery is required. [04:00] ScottK: what would the fixing entail then? [04:00] Just some debian/rules changes. [04:00] should that not be -DUSE_SYSTEM_QT=TRUE [04:01] The version in Debian experimental was packaged to use the internal copies because Debian doesn't have a new enough KDE SC packaged. We do. [04:01] * apachelogger sighs [04:02] next phonon release actually depends on unreleased Qt api, perhaps I should ship an internal copy :S [04:03] http://paste.debian.net/212642/ [04:03] There are other changes needed, but that's the bit about the internal libs. [04:03] * ScottK goes to check laundry. [04:06] shadeslayer: where be the digikam then? [04:08] He claims it's ~done locally and will upload tomorrow. [04:09] Of course it's kind of tomorrow there already, no idea. [04:09] :@ [04:09] oh well [04:09] what do I do while waiting? [04:09] I could break the settings packages [04:10] seeing as I have the merge complete, so before doing restructuring ... [04:11] * apachelogger needs a new music player [04:11] how well does xmms work? [05:05] ScottK: still here? [05:05] apachelogger: Yes. [05:05] Calligra at 80% [05:05] ScottK: did you review the kubuntu-settings package already? [05:05] lp:kubuntu-settings [05:05] I did not. [05:06] Riddell is really the one you want. He invented the whole thing. [05:06] but he is snoozing :P [05:06] Yes, but my review wouldn't mean much. [05:07] The only thing I know at all about is the javscript confiuration script we used in netbook and I've forgotten 97% of what I knew about that. [05:07] I need a general packaging review [05:07] right now the package is only a merge of the other packages with renamed binaries [05:08] Oh. [05:08] That I might to. [05:11] apachelogger: How about non-essential/less critical in the low fat description. [05:11] I could imagine upstream people getting annoyed at the current description. [05:12] I think the description wording is the least of upstream concerns about that package ^^ [05:12] (changed) [05:12] apachelogger: Also, each of the settings packages should have some unique words in the long descriptions. You can't assume the that long description is always displayed with the short one next to it, it needs to stand alone. [05:14] The new binaries are going to need to break/replace the older ones with version << this one. [05:14] ".\nThe settings are appliying to $PLASMA based workspaces."? [05:14] e.g. plasma-desktop based workspaces [05:14] Sure. [05:14] Except lowfat. It's slightly different. [05:15] yeah, that has additional info already though [05:16] Speed review: cat kubuntu-settings-*|less [05:17] Packaging wise (keep in mind I'm really tired and Calligra has mushed my mind) I think it's otherwise fine (you got the conflicts/replaces, right? [05:18] apachelogger: ^^^ [05:18] Calligra at 95%. [05:18] ScottK: yep, fixed [05:18] thx [05:20] * apachelogger breaks proposed a bit more \\o/ [05:28] ScottK: we don't archvie pre-release isos? [05:33] Maybe on old-releases. [05:46] don't see them there [05:47] http://kambing.ui.ac.id/iso/ubuntu/cdimage/kubuntu/releases/12.10/beta-1/ [05:47] it is a good thing the internet remembers everything :S [05:54] kubuntu-settings in new [05:57] shadeslayer: bug 1062086 === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [06:00] morning [06:01] Quintasan: yo [06:01] Quintasan: fancy SRUing bug 1062086? [06:01] * apachelogger is rather annoyed by it and shadeslayer did not sru it :( [06:02] apachelogger: Not right now, headed to programming lab, if I finish task earlier than expected I'll do preliminary work [06:02] * apachelogger is certain of Quintasan finishing stuff early [06:03] if not you can ask here, I hear apachelogger speaks all the silly languages except C# :P [06:03] Don't count on it, it's about the time I got some Java related book [06:03] apachelogger: Fast enough New'ing for you? [06:03] Quintasan: java is cool [06:03] except for String == String [06:03] Java is an Oracle trap. [06:03] and a lot of the older API [06:04] ScottK: hrrr [06:04] ScottK: thanks for the newing :D [06:04] apachelogger: Well, so far no problems, unfortunately I had to finish last task at home [06:04] Unless, of course, you're Google and can afford really good lawyers. [06:05] well as I said ... String == String in java is a reference comparision, not a string comparision [06:05] also try to stay away from AWT [06:05] other than that you should be good [06:05] ScottK: ^^ [06:05] apachelogger: String == String? It compares references? Can that ever yield true? [06:06] That and don't use any APIs that Oracle believes will make your code a derivative of theirs. [06:06] Unfortunately that's apparently all of them. [06:06] Quintasan: no [06:06] well [06:06] it can [06:07] * Quintasan thinks comparing references is like asking for some trouble [06:07] well [06:07] it does not give you anything [06:07] another reason why not to use such oddly ty ped languages [06:07] except when you do instance checks [06:07] just give me pointers and refs and be done. stop that gc crap [06:07] which are useful enough [06:08] sreich: suppose GC makes sense for the target audience of java [06:08] sreich: At my first Java task I couldn't stop my cpp habit and used delete after I was done with the object and couldnt figure why IDE whines about delete [06:08] :P [06:09] Quintasan: :D [06:09] apachelogger: yeah [06:09] the problem is when people start writing actual things in it -_- [06:09] actually I personally find it silly that you cannot delete crap [06:09] apachelogger: Target of Java -> lazy devs who cant be assed with memory managment? [06:10] i love it when i see people using a gc'd language but then they call things like object.dispose() [06:10] GC is nice and all but if I care to manage stuff myself why would the language refuse to let me do it [06:10] and GC.flush() or something [06:10] that's just silly [06:10] sreich: lol [06:10] My Java story is that when my wife was taking some programming classes, she took one that used Java first. Then she took one that used Python. After her first assignment in Python, she was sure she was doing something wrong because it was too easy. [06:10] so it's like oh it fixes some things but if you want it to be even slightly not stupid you have to manually handle this anyways [06:10] ScottK: :D [06:11] * apachelogger finds it silly that one would learn java at uni actually [06:11] apachelogger: all the unis are doing it.. [06:11] apachelogger: Can't help that :/ [06:11] mine not [06:11] we learned C [06:11] all == many [06:11] many/most [06:11] java was expected to be known after having managed C :P [06:12] Truth be told, so far I am doing everything based on my C knowledge, I sleep through the lectures [06:12] :P [06:14] apachelogger: You would like my Java prof. his voice is so monotonous you fall asleep in like, 3 minutes [06:14] lol [06:14] pulling an rbelem are we? :P [06:14] Every damn time [06:14] Quintasan: what do you learn in that lab anyway? [06:15] I dont want to look at the script because it might turn out I dont understand some stuff :P [06:15] programming in java or programming through java? [06:15] apachelogger: Like, well, we produce code [06:15] yeah, that I figured :P [06:15] apachelogger: my last task was to implement some sort of library [06:16] mhhh [06:16] programming in java then :P [06:16] with methods such as returnBook, rentBook, displayAvailableBooks [06:16] etc [06:16] very useful [06:16] inheritance and polymophism [06:17] so you'd get class Book and have things inherit from it [06:17] stuff like that [06:17] dunno why bother with it but well [06:17] * apachelogger wonders what you'd derive from a Book class [06:17] obviously every time you added a new book to your library, you'd whip your java coder in to writing a new class [06:18] I call it: JavaDB [06:18] makes sense [06:18] I call it: JavaBeanFactorySingletonInstanceFactoryDB [06:18] actually that really makes sense [06:18] you'd put yourself out of a job by representign book propertis as... properties [06:23] bleh, I should get to bed [06:24] JontheEchidna: good night [06:24] ^^ [06:30] apachelogger: You'll need to re-upload your setting package. "FAILED: kubuntu-settings (The following files are already published in Primary Archive for Ubuntu: kubuntu-netbook-default-settings_13.04ubuntu1_all.deb)" [06:30] oh [06:30] ah [06:31] netbook hasn't had an upload in years and of course it gets one when I want to merge :P [06:32] ScottK: up it goes [06:33] * apachelogger is getting silly brain from testing ISO images for when netbook broke -.- [06:40] whatever [06:40] seems like my uni wi-fi has port filtering [06:49] lo lwut [06:51] yes [06:52] so [06:52] it turns out the plasma-netbook page one freeze may be a Qt bug [06:52] i.e. I can reproduce it with 12.10 a1, but not 12.04.1 [06:53] former featuring plasma-netbook 4.8.3 and latter 4.8.4 [07:01] or not [07:01] meh [07:22] backports is activated by default? :O [07:23] apachelogger: Yes, but unless you specifically ask for a package from it, you won't get it (similar to pinning) [07:23] why that is confusing [07:23] It's very nice. [07:24] This way JontheEchidna can offer people "here's the regular version of the package or here's the shiny, but not so tested one." "Do you want the latest crack or something that might have had some testing."? === benvantende_ is now known as benvantende [10:00] ScottK, yofel_: are the 4.8 releases in precise backports? [10:00] or based off the released precise versions [10:02] >>> ls ~/src/bzr/k/kde-workspace/debian/patches |wc -l [10:02] 38 [10:02] weeh [10:15] apachelogger: I expect they're based off the released precise versions since 4.8 wouldn't go into quantal so nothing to backport [10:15] Riddell: we had at leats .3 in quantal [10:20] apachelogger: check the changelog then [10:20] apachelogger: 4.8 in backports? Isn't 4.8 the precise release version? [10:20] Riddell: no help [10:21] it says *exactly* what the quantal versions says without any reflection of it coming from quantal [10:22] apachelogger: if you mean 4.9 - that's based of quantal (using the wrong version though as my script had a bug) [10:22] no, I mean 4.8 [10:22] precise shipped with 4.8 [10:22] and has 4.8.5 in -updates [10:22] precise shipped with 4.8.2, now it contains 4.8.5, somehow those additional 3 releases got in [10:23] that's based of the precise packaging [10:23] *off [10:23] of those 3 releases at least .3 is most definitely based off quantal one way or another as .3 was what we had for quantal alpha1 [10:23] no [10:24] the updates are always made with the packaging from the same release [10:24] and somewhere between .2 and .3 something in quantal changed so that the plasma-netbook page one thing is broken [10:24] if we had it in quantal too, then either the same packaging worked there as well, or we packaged it twice [10:24] in precise however it remains working even with .5 [10:25] precise can be bricked by simply installing plasma-netbook and deps from quantal [10:26] all indicating that a patch is to blame [10:26] blame... boost or whatever. [10:26] that had like a 3 version jump for quantal [10:26] yofel__: it is not working in alpha1 [10:26] that is like 1 or 2 months past precise [10:26] and I can break precise without updating boost [10:27] I'm not saying that it isn't a patch, and I don't think we ever merged 4.8 either, but quantal has plenty of changes to precise by itself [10:27] it would almost certainly be easier to find the cause if our bzr branches were properly tagged and did not have weirdly deformed commit messages [10:28] let alone the obligatory commit without patch once a month [10:28] well, tagging is easy to forget... [10:30] also note that precise used gcc 4.6 - and 4.7 was buggy as hell [10:31] as I see it either a patch is causing it or something inline in Qt [10:32] Qt sounds more likely... it's not like we had a different patchset for precise and quantal for 4.8.3 [10:32] or did we? [10:34] that's what I am trying to find otu [10:35] * yofel__ wonders if we want bzr branches for the post-release updates [10:35] that would bloat our branch count a lot though [10:35] git would be handy here -.- [10:38] git ftw [10:38] yofel__: truth be told, I think with bzr this makes a lot less sense [10:39] well, kind of the reason that we have none right nwo [10:39] *now [10:39] it's not too appealing to cherry pick stuff out of another branch with bzr [10:39] also there'd be little use history-wise as it's hard to track where a commit came from to begin with [10:40] yofel__: we should simply use git :P [10:40] probably hosting it on alioth then, but we already had that discussion [10:41] yofel__: we did we decide to stay with bzr? [10:41] it's the ubuntu way [10:41] we had no conclusion as it would be quite a bit of work [10:41] IIRC [10:41] it's easier to use than git [10:42] there's no obvious git host to use and it would limit cooperation with other teams [10:43] it would improve cooperation with our upstream :S [10:43] sure, question is what makes more sense for us. Or whether the debian folks would even appreciate having our work meshed with theirs [10:44] oh, Riddell's right, forgot about the ubuntu-intra-cooperation issue [10:44] anyway, lunch. BBL [10:45] oh, already lunch time [10:45] G [10:45] 6 hours wasted [10:45] tracking down bugs is never a waste! [10:46] I could have spent that time on implementing a clock plasmoid [10:56] Riddell, if hunting down bugs is not a waste, then writing software (with bugs) must be. [10:57] Otherwise, the universe would be out of balance. [11:27] if someone wants to file removal requests for the settings sources that'd be nice, kubuntu-settings now landed https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-settings [11:27] * apachelogger is off to lunch === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [13:58] apol: I made a fix to analitza for no gl [13:58] Riddell: i saw, thanks [13:58] Riddell: is it working well now? [14:02] oh bah I missed a change I needed to make it compile [14:02] apol: so no, my fault though :) [14:03] huh, both kubotu and ubottu are MIA o.O [14:04] Riddell: :P well tell me if you need anything else [14:05] apachelogger: did the nickserv issues yesterday kill kubotu? [14:05] Hi all [14:06] ~help [14:06] yofel__: they've just left the matrix to have a meeting in real life [14:06] hm, no, different guest ^^ [14:06] ubottu server seems down seeing as ubottu is also not here [14:06] Riddell: oh, guess we should hope they get bored soon [14:06] jussi01-nom would know [14:07] oh ... possibly jussi01-nom nom'd ubottu [14:07] evil he is [14:07] omnomnom [14:08] * apachelogger breaks kubuntu-meta a bit [14:09] JontheEchidna: for bug 1058466 you said the old kcm can go away? [14:10] yep [14:12] Bug 1058466: remove kcm-gtk from archive [14:21] pfff [14:21] intartubes fail while editing bugs [14:22] JontheEchidna, Riddell: I wonder whether we should add a transition package from old kcm to new kcm [14:22] Riddell: hi, I have just fixed a really hard to fix bug :P it would be nice if you added this patch to the colord-kde package :D http://commits.kde.org/colord-kde/a3307c670055104afdce5d2d2714db47479fb5aa [14:22] to ensure people without kubuntu-desktop get the new thingy [14:22] uhh, it's a dantti_laptop [14:22] * apachelogger hugs dantti_laptop [14:23] yay, dantti_laptop! [14:23] * dantti_laptop waves back :) [14:24] dantti_laptop: I'll take a look, anything for a real life international freedom fighter [14:24] Riddell: hehe :) yes, freedom outside computers is extremelly important too :D [14:26] Riddell: what do we do with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1001630 [14:27] I am not sure what the benefit is [14:27] and we have no UI to configure it [14:30] apachelogger: I think it would need a kde port of whoopsie [14:30] do we? [14:31] but since we don't use apport for the most part it would be of limited use [14:31] yeah [14:31] that's why I wonder whether it is even worthwhile to venture into a qt port [14:31] actually I might be wrong, whoopsie doesn't use gtk so it's probably just a daemon [14:32] dantti_laptop: welcome back \o/ [14:32] Riddell: yeah, but it needs a configure UI from what I understand [14:32] [x] send stuffz to canonical [14:32] shadeslayer: thanks :) [14:32] well, to some extent one might argue that apport should be recommending whoopsie if it uses it... [14:32] Riddell: unlike apport the whoopsie thing is non-interactive it appears [14:32] it is non-interactive [14:32] i.e. it sends stuff automagically regardless of whether you choose to report it [14:33] it sends the stuff to errors.ubuntu.com [14:33] I think [14:33] ! Could not open STRUCTURE from checkout of (any of): [14:33] ! bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.quantal [14:33] Oo [14:33] which is the new crash tracking DB [14:33] yofel__: yes [14:33] * yofel__ notes that akonadi crashes end up there [14:34] * apachelogger wonders how ScottK refreshed kubuntu-meta for raring without updateing the config :O [14:34] yofel__: would be better if they ended up with upstream ;) [14:34] sure, I'm just noting that that isn't the case [14:35] W: digikam source: ancient-standards-version 3.8.4 (current is 3.9.3) [14:35] and errors.ubuntu.com is a PITA for any other flavour than ubuntu really as you can't filter by packageset [14:35] even debian didn't update the standards version :P [14:35] shadeslayer: saw that too and when *shrug* whatever [14:36] shadeslayer: the last ubuntu policy version is 3.8.2, so who cares [14:36] apachelogger: yeah, I'm not increasing the diff for something as stupid as the standards-version [14:36] indeed [14:36] This digikam merge has been fun indeed : http://paste.kde.org/615446/ [14:37] such a big delta [14:37] oh [14:37] actually, it's lesser now :P [14:37] shadeslayer: please throw the xpm updates at debian [14:37] apachelogger: needs social engineering [14:39] hmm [14:39] zonealarm is trying to sell me a firewall [14:39] "Last Chance - Black Friday Prices Extended 24hrs - Ends Tue 11/27" [14:40] shadeslayer: a bug report isn't social engineering [14:44] shadeslayer: it seems back friday will only end a week before christmas :P sad enough here we just get spam, price is the same... [14:44] *black [14:44] hehe [14:45] fwiw digikam uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental [14:46] dantti_laptop: this patch is worth a stable release update? [14:52] Riddell: yup, without it colord-kde is actually pretty useless, first on startup a profile is not applied (I didn't notice this before since it's hard for me to reboot).. [14:52] it also makes the calibrate button disabled.. [14:55] kubuntu-meta updated [15:06] apachelogger: yes, ubottu.com is down, rackspace made a mistake, they are working on getting it back up asap. [15:06] yofel__: ^ [15:07] * apachelogger breaks some more of kubuntu in the meantime then :P [15:08] dantti_laptop: hmm doesn't apply cleanly to 0.2.0 [15:08] Riddell: oh, I even reverted lukas patch in the hope it would go fine :/ [15:09] Riddell: what can I do to help fixing this? [15:10] dantti_laptop: here's a rejected bit http://paste.kde.org/615554/ [15:11] colord-kded/ColorD.h has no m_x11EventHandler or m_profilesWatcher [15:11] hmm [15:12] oooh, dantti_laptop is here - good to see you sir! [15:12] jussi01-nom: you too [15:13] Riddell: hmm the x11 should exist .. the watcher probably got add later, let me fetch the source of the current package to see if I can do this.. [15:13] * apachelogger suggests using more branches and tags btw [15:25] ->sleep [15:25] nighters [15:25] apachelogger: luckly I have tags :P [15:26] weirdly named ones :P [15:36] Riddell: this one applies fine http://paste.kde.org/615566/ do you prefer by mail? [15:37] dantti_laptop: that'll do [15:39] thanks [15:49] ScottK: bug 1083628 with dantti_laptop's update should you be in a sru mood [15:57] i see app emnu support in 4.10, Dolhin changes etc :) can't wait ppa with packages === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [16:51] hi, do you people know if we're going to get a package for ninja anytime soon? (i know it's not strictly kubuntu, but it's useful for developing KDE :D) [16:57] apol: what when where? [16:58] what: http://martine.github.com/ninja/ [16:58] when: asap? [16:59] where: i don't know xD [16:59] apachelogger: ^ [17:00] (with ninjas you never know) [17:00] :P [17:02] hm [17:03] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=683336 [17:03] seems the guy who wanted to package it failed on the might requirements of debian packaging [17:03] what a shame [17:05] apol: best drop a mail to the list or something [17:05] * apachelogger will have forgotten by tomorrow [17:06] apachelogger: what list [17:06] ? [17:06] kubuntu-devel [17:06] ok [17:11] apol: I'll take a look [17:16] Riddell: cool, i already sent the e-mail you can answer there if you want... === cmagina_ is now known as cmagina === yofel_ is now known as yofel [19:13] :-D [19:22] hi rbelem [19:22] heya Riddell :-) [19:23] rbelem: how's life at !nokia? [19:24] Riddell: really different... I'm studying telecomunication now, gsm, wcdma, lte [19:26] these acronyms are for 2G, 3G and 4G mobiles? [19:26] no software development in a while, just at home [19:26] Riddell: yup [19:27] * rbelem misses qt development a lot at work [19:36] well I hear there's lots of plasma active packaging to be done :) [19:41] yeah :-) [19:42] Riddell: i will update some packages today [19:43] as soon as i arrive home [20:45] hi a friend of mine was using ubuntu+cinnamon, I suggested to install kubuntu-desktop since cinnamon was eating CPU but the kde desktop doesn't show oxygen theme [20:46] kde-style-oxygen is installed but it doesn't show in the options [20:51] the 13,04 kubuntu alternate install daily build is broken ... I posted my experience with it in ubuntu+1 ,m but nobody seems concerned [22:06] apachelogger: I updated the config, just after I ran the update script. [22:06] armel still exists, it's just no longer updated, so it even the old config still 'works'. [22:12] shadeslayer: Where's my digikam? [22:13] ctrl-M /input return [22:17] BluesKaj: it might very well be as we're messing with KDE and settings at the moment, should be in order again for alpha1 [22:20] yofel , I tried both the AMD 64 Bit Alternate and the regular Desktop AMD 64 images and both won't get past the "Install Kubuntu" page [22:20] of 13,04 [22:21] it would be useful to have an error message of some kind, either from xsession-errors, syslog, or apport (/var/crash/) [22:22] yeah , but nothing , it merely freezes [22:22]