[01:24] <rick_h_> interesting https://twitter.com/onyxfish/status/273227612061573121
[01:38] <snap-l> Yeah, well, shipping is getting more expensive
[01:38] <snap-l> post office is increasing their rates
[01:44] <snap-l> http://www.fsf.org/givingguide
[02:15] <snap-l> http://bassdrops.bandcamp.com/ <- This takes fucking balls
[13:05] <snap-l> New episode of OMC is out, and it's an Instrumetalcast
[13:07] <rick_h_> .party!
[13:45] <jjesse> yay for a messed up back and 800mg of ibprofen
[13:45] <rick_h_> heh
[13:45] <rick_h_> jjesse: is feeling good!
[13:45] <jjesse> not yet, still waiting to hit my system
[13:45] <jjesse> but soon i'll be feeling great
[13:46] <brousch> What'd you do to yourself?
[13:46] <jjesse> no idea
[13:46] <jjesse> probably when i was working on fixing the dryer and bent all weird
[13:46] <brousch> Right "fixing the dryer"
[13:47] <jjesse> ok i'll admit it, hurt during sex
[13:47] <brousch> Oh wow, an actual Python3 webapp https://bitbucket.org/cedricbonhomme/pyaggr3g470r/wiki/Home
[13:47] <brousch> jjesse: attaboy
[14:26] <snap-l> God, I fucking hate RVM
[14:27] <snap-l> logged in to my machine, and it wouldn't source my .bashrc because it created a .bash_profile file for me
[14:27] <snap-l> which didn't run because it couldn't find the .rvm directory that I deleted.
[14:28] <snap-l> For everything that I like about virtualenv, the exact opposite is true of RVM
[14:28] <snap-l> virtualenv is surgical, rvm is invasive
[14:29] <snap-l> virtualenv works with the developer's environment. RVM tries to take over the developer's environment
[14:32] <brousch> preach it, brotha
[14:33] <jrwren_> its funny, i had similar complaints about virtualenv using it for the first time after having used rvm.
[14:34] <jrwren_> "this virtualenv is lame, it does so little. rvm does it all for me."
[14:38] <snap-l> jrwren_: Different strokes, I guess. :)
[14:38] <snap-l> I think my biggest complaint of all is having to use curl to install it, while sourcing the resulting file
[14:39] <snap-l> I want to make it my life's goal to crack that system and insert something innocuous, like change the prompt of every rvm user to say "this is really fucking insecure $"
[14:40] <rick_h_> and virtualenv is built into 3.3 now so it's a part of the language ftw
[14:41] <rick_h_> wasn't there an alternative to rvm that was ok?
[14:41] <rick_h_> didn't do the cd magic and BS
[14:41] <snap-l> rick_h_: And that's another contrast: I really hope RVM is never baked into Ruby.
[14:41] <snap-l> rick_h_: Outside of putting it on a virtual machine, I'm not aware of one.
[14:43] <snap-l> But I was getting my perennial jonesing for running Tracks, and RVM pretty much killed any enthusiasm
[14:43] <rick_h_> ah rbenv but looks like no updates in a year :(
[14:43] <snap-l> Yeah, rbenv is pretty dead, afaict.
[15:16] <jrwren_> snap-l: different strokes, yes, but also I think it is a dislike of the unfamiliar. we both didn't like what was different because we didn't see (and still dont) a reason for it to be different
[15:17] <jrwren_> snap-l: I've loathed the curl | bash installer for a while, but really it is not much different than a pip install
[15:48] <rick_h_> jrwren_: I think sane people dislike too much magic and anything that goes and replaces cd for me is doing too much magic
[15:48] <rick_h_> imo :)
[16:07] <snap-l> jrwren_: I really hate it when part of the install process mucks directly with my .bashrc
[16:08] <snap-l> Seriously, it took the liberty of adding that
[16:40] <snap-l> Wow, Twitter lists are incredibly clunky
[17:03] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I don't know how people use them tbh
[18:12] <rick_h_> hah, jcastro__ beat me to linking snap-l to the juju charm for tracks
[18:13] <jcastro__> charm install hooks = linode install scripts. :)
[18:13] <snap-l> The only downside is it installs everything to the system.
[18:13] <rick_h_> run it in lxc containers
[18:13] <snap-l> which is what I was hoping to avoid.
[18:13] <snap-l> Yeah, that may be the better approach
[18:13] <rick_h_> the lxc containers in 12.10 seem a nice chunk faster than 12.04
[18:14] <jcastro__> nod
[18:14] <snap-l> I've not played with LXC at all. Is that the same as the openvps stuff? (or whatever Parallels was doing)
[18:14]  * snap-l is fuzzy on the name
[18:15] <rick_h_> sorry, don't know what parallels was doing
[18:15] <jcastro__> no
[18:15] <jcastro__> lxc are more like super chroots
[18:15] <snap-l> There was some container stuff that they did
[18:15] <jcastro__> so like, containers but they share the same kernel resources
[18:15] <jcastro__> so "lightweight VMs"
[18:16] <snap-l> ok
[18:16] <jcastro__> the parallels stuff is real virtualization afaict
[18:16] <snap-l> There was one thing they used that was like a super chroot
[18:16] <jcastro__> I am trying to get in the habit of running things in containers
[18:16] <snap-l> but you needed a custom kernel to make it work
[18:16] <jcastro__> rick_h_, is there a write up somewhere for using LXC containers like on the fly for stuff?
[18:17] <rick_h_> hmmm, I setup using the launchpad docs
[18:17] <jcastro__> link me up!
[18:17] <rick_h_> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC
[18:17] <snap-l> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LXC ?
[18:17] <rick_h_> so just start with the first bits
[18:18] <rick_h_> meh, that seems a bit over the head to start with
[18:18] <snap-l> Is it compatible with Virtualbox?
[18:18] <snap-l> ie: is it going to make VB unhappy if I run them together?
[18:18] <rick_h_> go through the creating an lxc container, then just run ifconfig from inside the container and setup a host alias for the ip
[18:18] <rick_h_> no, I run both
[18:19] <rick_h_> I do all my LP dev in an lxc container, but use VBox for my windows VM
[18:19] <rick_h_> I even do IE testing from my Windows VBox into my LXC container
[18:19] <rick_h_> to do LP IE testing
[18:19] <snap-l> nice
[18:19] <rick_h_> so there's a new series of lxc-XXX commands that do stuff, kind of like kvm
[18:20] <snap-l> OpenVZ. That's what I was thinking
[18:20] <jcastro__> snap-l, Hemispheres is really great on long flights
[18:20] <rick_h_> but I thought juju would deploy to lxc containers and create them for you?
[18:20] <jcastro__> openvz is more like kvm/xen isn't it?
[18:20] <jcastro__> rick_h_, yeah, but I want to get used to using it "raw"
[18:21] <snap-l> It's like a kernel-blessed chroot
[18:21] <jcastro__> for like, home server/laptop use when I'm messing around and not deploying charms
[18:21] <jcastro__> snap-l, yeah, so basically, it's like openvz but already in the kernel
[18:21] <snap-l> WE used OpenVZ for hosted apps at SF.net
[18:21] <rick_h_> yea, when you create a container it basically copies your /bin and such out to create the new system
[18:21] <rick_h_> so it bootstraps the lxc from your install and then when you boot/go into it it's just like a VM
[18:21] <rick_h_> you ssh to it, boot, shutdown, etc
[18:22] <snap-l> I quite liked openvz, save for the kernel wonkiness
[18:25] <rick_h_> snap-l: I can show you at CHC tomorrow if you want
[18:25] <rick_h_> jcastro__: long 3hr chc tomorrow. Make the trip!
[18:27] <snap-l> jcastro__: Definitely make the trip. I have goodies for you.
[18:32] <jcastro__> I'm on a plane to vegas for the AWS conference
[18:32] <rick_h_> doh
[18:33] <rick_h_> man, nice to get out there. I kept getting emails but $$ conference
[18:34] <snap-l> jcastro__: You're not actually on the plane right now, are you? :)
[18:34] <jcastro__> I am
[18:34] <jcastro__> inflight wifi
[18:35] <rick_h_> booo, I need to ditch delta to get some of that.
[18:35] <jjesse> delta has in flight wifi
[18:35] <snap-l> jcastro__: Download the latest OMC. ;)
[18:35] <rick_h_> I never get that when I fly. Drives me nust
[18:36] <jjesse> hrmm that's weird i thought Delta has most of the flights covered w/ wifi
[18:36] <jjesse> i like not having internet access on a plane, gives me a chance to read and not work :)
[18:36] <jcastro__> rick_h_, something like 85%+ of their fleet has it
[18:36] <snap-l> jjesse: That's probably for the super-special crew that spoons the pilot
[18:36] <jcastro__> and that was like 2 years ago
[18:36] <jcastro__> the problem now is everyone is on it, so it's slower than it used to be
[18:37] <snap-l> extra-special-deluxe-spooning class
[18:37] <rick_h_> well, now that I think about it I guess the long international flights probably don't have it due to being over ocean for the trip
[18:37] <jjesse> in fact i was on a regional jet between grand rapids and detroit it had wifi
[18:37] <jjesse> which is dumb
[18:38] <rick_h_> and then the hops out of amsterdam just haven't had it for me
[18:38] <jjesse> yeah internet over oceans is something they are still working on it
[18:38] <rick_h_> so I just choose flights poorly
[18:38] <rick_h_> thoguh I didn't have it on my flights to/from CA last March either
[18:41] <snap-l> jcastro__: Maybe we could set up Big Blue Button so we can chat with you on the flight. ;)
[18:41] <jjesse> rick_h_, when you book a flight it will show if the flight has wifi on it
[18:43] <jcastro__> snap-l, heh, I can barely IRC
[18:54] <snap-l> What's the default password for a lxc lucid server?
[18:54] <rick_h_> so if you do lxc-start it shold just give you a prompt on the machine
[18:54] <rick_h_> without the -d (detached/headless mode)
[18:54] <rick_h_> and I just set it from there, but I think it's 'ubuntu'
[18:55] <snap-l> It just gave me a login prompt
[18:55] <rick_h_> ubuntu/ubuntu?
[18:55] <snap-l> nope
[18:55] <snap-l> ubuntu/[enter] doesn't work either
[18:56] <rick_h_> what command did you use to create it?
[18:56] <snap-l> Ah, I passed it my login creds
[18:56] <rick_h_> ah, there you go
[18:56] <snap-l> OK, now I'm in
[18:57] <snap-l> Woah, it's using my home directory. That's odd.
[18:57] <snap-l> I think I passed one too many flags. ;)
[18:57] <rick_h_> lol, did you use that launchpad command?
[18:57] <snap-l> yes
[18:57] <rick_h_> yea, I don't do that
[18:57] <rick_h_> yea, normally launchpad sits on your home dir and to help things like up it tries to mirror things
[18:58] <rick_h_> yea, lxc-destory and recreate to drop some flags and get a more split machine
[19:02] <snap-l> Ah, nice. It caches everything.
[19:02] <snap-l> me likey
[19:03] <rick_h_> what's cool is you can script it. So I only run my launchpad dev stuff when I need to
[19:03] <rick_h_> and you can make a tracks_start command to fire up the lxc
[19:03] <rick_h_> then hit the url for the website
[19:03] <snap-l> Yeah, that's really handy
[19:03] <rick_h_> and let it fubar the container all ruby wants
[19:03] <rick_h_> gets bad dump your data, lxc-destroy, and recreate