[00:00] <TheDrums> apachelogger: Did you actually need a ubot*?
[00:02] <apachelogger> no
[00:02] <Riddell> don't we?
[00:02] <Riddell> who will do the !ninjas and bug 123 foo?
[00:03] <apachelogger> we did not, we do generally though :P
[00:29] <Pj__> Heya, greetings everyone! Out of curiosity, as I am not sure if I should stay with 12.04 or upgrade to 12.10 and didn't find any information on this on the web: Are there plans to update KDE SC (including e.g. kdevelop) to 4.10 or beyond in 12.04?
[00:38] <apachelogger> not really
[00:39] <apachelogger> traditionally we only backport KDE SC +1
[00:39] <apachelogger> so 12.04 gets 4.9, 12.10 gets 4.11 etc.
[00:42] <Pj__> ah ok, thanks a lot!
[02:07] <shadeslayer> havent seen SteveRiley after UDS slot
[02:07] <shadeslayer> *a lot
[02:07] <shadeslayer> gosh, silly autocomplete
[02:08] <shadeslayer> anyway, I hope we didn't scare him off :-)
[02:12] <shadeslayer> ScottK: in here : https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental
[02:14] <shadeslayer> I will upload sometime today ... probably after lunch ... just want to make sure I didn't miss anything
[10:19] <Riddell> Blizzz and anyone: how's this message for people running owncloud on precise when they upgrade? http://ec2-50-19-40-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com/owncloud/
[10:26] <shadeslayer> ScottK: digikam uploaded
[10:26] <Riddell> yay
[10:28] <Blizzz> Riddell: i've never seen that message. this upgrade to or from precise?
[10:28] <Riddell> Blizzz: well I just wrote the message
[10:28] <Riddell> it's an update for people using owncloud 3 in precise to remove the insecure owncloud 3
[10:29] <Blizzz> ah, i see
[10:30] <Tm_T> Riddell: add link to reference of the security issue (security notification, bug report, something) and I'd be happy with it (:
[10:30] <Riddell> Tm_T: I'm not sure owncloud has a maintained list of security issues, they just say to upgrade to the latest
[10:31] <Riddell> which alas can't be done for precise
[10:31] <Blizzz> maybe pointers that config file (and db) is also kept? you could also point to the OBS repository where packages for *buntu are provided as well and are always up to date.
[10:31] <shadeslayer> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/digikam/4:3.0.0~beta3-0ubuntu1
[10:31] <shadeslayer> \o/
[10:32] <Blizzz> security advisories can be found here: http://owncloud.org/security/advisories/
[10:33]  * Riddell types
[10:42] <Riddell> Blizzz, Tm_T: how's this? http://ec2-50-19-40-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com/owncloud/
[10:43] <Blizzz> looks good
[10:43] <Tm_T> +1
[11:56] <Riddell> dantti_laptop: you had an issue yesterday?
[11:57] <Riddell> ScottK: owncloud removal bug 1079150
[11:57] <dantti_laptop> Riddell: an issue with ?
[11:57] <Riddell> dunno I remember you asking something and nobody replying
[11:57] <dantti_laptop> ah my co worker that didn't had oxygen in his available options?
[11:58] <dantti_laptop> it was quite odd, he had the same oxygen packages that I do but still it was not available as a theme
[11:58] <Riddell> dantti_laptop: as a widget theme?
[11:58] <dantti_laptop> besides that his vpn only worked on cinnamon
[11:58] <dantti_laptop> yup
[12:00] <Riddell> maybe qt isn't picking up the path for plugins from kde
[12:01] <Riddell> it should be listed in ~/.config/Trolltech.conf
[12:02] <dantti_laptop> hmm ok, he is not here right now, once he arives I'll take a look at that path
[12:45] <dantti_laptop> Riddell: btw I think "This package is part of the KDE education module." is wrong, I think graphics module would be better
[12:45] <dantti_laptop> for colord-kde...
[12:46] <Riddell> dantti_laptop: doh, looks like a copy and paste error
[12:46] <Riddell> it's not part of any module is it?  it's extragear?
[12:47] <dantti_laptop> it's in playground
[12:48] <dantti_laptop> I think it might end in extragear /graphics
[12:48] <dantti_laptop> since there is the oyranos alternative and it doesn't seem one of the two will be elected as default of KDE so soon
[12:49] <dantti_laptop> tho colord is currently the default of every gnome distro out there..
[12:49] <jussi01-nom> Hrm, I think I just found a small Kontact bug that could fit in agateau's extra bits bug thing...
[12:50] <jussi01-nom> The checking for attachments words should not include quoted text...
[12:51] <dantti_laptop> only distro that I think ships oyranos is openSUSE KDE spin, but they already have packages for colord-kde and as the gnome version uses colord I think they might drop oyranos as well
[12:52] <oy> dantti_laptop: where do you havethese informations from?
[12:52] <dantti_laptop> I'd love to see the oyranos guy helping to get the colord-kcm module improved, but doesn't look like this will ever happen..
[12:52] <dantti_laptop> oy: which one?
[12:52] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:52] <dantti_laptop> oy: from opensuse it's just expeculation..
[12:52] <oy> Oyranos is only distributed in openSUSE KDE spin
[12:53] <dantti_laptop> right so I'm not wrong :P
[12:53] <dantti_laptop> that's what I knew about it..
[12:53] <oy> that's plain wrong, you speculate nothing else :-(
[12:53] <dantti_laptop> I did, there are no fedora packages, nor ubuntu, debian...
[12:54] <oy> wrong
[12:54] <dantti_laptop> at least I could not find any official one
[12:54] <oy> one can google and will find packages for them
[12:56] <oy> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/package-announce/2012-April/079351.html
[12:56] <dantti_laptop> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=oyranos no result, http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=oyranos no result
[12:57] <dantti_laptop> odd I searched for a fedora package some time ago but could not find it..
[12:57] <oy> ok, not officially in debian, but I am working on that to get solved
[13:01] <dantti_laptop> oy: a shame we didn't met in person, I don't believe we would be able to get rid of this oyranos vs colord but maybe sharing some ideas.. :)
[13:01] <oy> dantti_laptop, we (Oyranos + OpenICC) have invested quite some work on concepts, code and popularisation of colour management on Linux with quite projects near to KDE
[13:03] <dantti_laptop> I undestand that, unfurtunately I believe it would be the default  on instalations if you have targettered gnome first (not that I like the idea but it's true)
[13:03] <oy> so the question is more of, why do colord-kde peple try to bite Oyranos so often
[13:03]  * oy wonders to read that in a KDE dedicated channel
[13:05] <dantti_laptop> I'm not trying to bite Oyranos, I just think that since imo colord got a broader acception joining forces would be nicer..
[13:06] <oy> dantti_laptop, that might have been a interessting discussion on the CM hackfest in Brno
[13:06] <dantti_laptop> like colord-kde kcm could really use your skills and have those nice graphics that the gnome version has
[13:07] <oy> dantti_laptop, colord is just a simple DB backend
[13:07] <dantti_laptop> sure, and imo that's all I need
[13:07] <oy> why not work on merging the DB access?
[13:07] <dantti_laptop> complex things easly break
[13:08] <oy> with a joined DB, colord-kde and KolorManager would interface the same stuff
[13:09] <dantti_laptop> sure, but then it's just dumb to have two interfaces...
[13:09] <oy> dantti_laptop, richard (the author of colrod) stated it is a very simple daemon
[13:10] <dantti_laptop> I can't think of why it shouldn't be a very simple daemon..
[13:10] <oy> hm, Oyranos does a lot more then colord: http://www.oyranos.org/features/
[13:11] <oy> I code since quite some years photography and colour related stuff
[13:11] <dantti_laptop> it does, but pratically what does really matter? why apple designers don't care of not having complex settings for different ICC sets?
[13:12] <oy> apple does behind the scenes a lot, but they are criticised as well
[13:13] <dantti_laptop> I really believe you have more knowledge on the matter than me, but I like things simple
[13:13] <oy> colord-kde copys the "No option is a good option" approach from Gnome to KDE
[13:14] <dantti_laptop> I don't see what extra options are actually usefull on the normal day use..
[13:14] <dantti_laptop> if it was a killer feature I bet richard would have added
[13:14] <oy> there are others around who need some of those options for their dayly to work
[13:15] <oy> that is assumption, fact is colord lacks a lot of useful features we have in Oyranos explored and implemented
[13:16] <oy> part of that now goes into the KDE desktop -> KWin + colour managed printing in Krita
[13:16] <mikhas> "No option is a good option" is a flawed understanding of "options increase maintenance". And whether the options are available directly in the application UI or in dconf-editor is entirely besides the point.
[13:17] <dantti_laptop> for example the policy thing, look at power-devil, it got much better once it droped this complexibility...
[13:17] <oy> mikhas: the piont is, there is no excuse for lack of certain options
[13:17] <BluesKaj> now there's anew word ":)
[13:18] <oy> *point
[13:19] <oy> dantti_laptop, policies in Oyranos are simply a set of options, no complexity involved
[13:20] <mikhas> oy, I agree, it's just really really difficult to find the balance between "no options" and "so much flexibility that all development effort just goes into making sure all the options work"
[13:20] <dantti_laptop> it's complex since you open the kcm module and don't know what to do
[13:21] <dantti_laptop> the important thing is assigning an ICC profile to a device and that's not explicity on the first page
[13:21] <dantti_laptop> mikhas: or that the user understand that
[13:21] <dantti_laptop> oy: we will then discuss UI design...
[13:22] <oy> mikhas: typical non needed options sorts out with time, (as long as they do not bit rot)
[13:23] <oy> dantti_laptop, Oyranos has developed concepts, that only expert user need to look at the KolorManager UI
[13:24] <oy> on the opposite, colord and thus colord-kde fully require, that all users have to understand CM and use the UI
[13:24] <dantti_laptop> if only experts should be using KM how are they supposed to calibrate the UI?
[13:24] <BluesKaj> I'm amazed the word "functionality" hasn't crept into this discussion yet  :>)
[13:24] <dantti_laptop> or switch between profiles?
[13:24] <oy> BluesKaj, discussion is good
[13:25] <dantti_laptop> sure, I just had an idea of improvement for colord-kde :P
[13:25] <oy> dantti_laptop, experts can do that and that is fine, np
[13:25] <BluesKaj> oy , no doubt , but i was just trying to lighten things up some 
[13:26] <oy> dantti_laptop, but normal users are not interessted of CM and should not
[13:26] <dantti_laptop> I don't think they shouldn't care
[13:26]  * oy kindly understands BluesKaj
[13:26] <dantti_laptop> it's so nice to see my monitors looking the same
[13:26] <dantti_laptop> tho I don't do any painting/photo related stuff
[13:27] <oy> dantti_laptop, anyway, there are different concepts and approaches, I do not see that my ideas would get a chance in a colord only world
[13:27] <Riddell> Blizzz: I'm updating owncloud 4.0.7 in ubuntu 12.10, do you know why webodf was removed from the tar?
[13:30] <dantti_laptop> oy: well, lot's of debian developers said the same thing about packagekit 4 years ago, no debconf support, no media change, no way of showing which packages would be removed during an installation...
[13:30] <dantti_laptop> I persisted and solved all the issues...
[13:30] <dantti_laptop> richard might say no at first but not because he doesn't like the feature, but maily the way it's implemented..
[13:31] <dantti_laptop> maybe it's worth looking at all the features you actually think it's usefull and discuss those
[13:32] <dantti_laptop> in the end sharing code would mean easier to maintain...
[13:32] <oy> the other way around, what would you convince to use KolorManager / Oyranos?
[13:32] <oy> agreed
[13:35] <dantti_laptop> oy: what would convince me to use oyranos it's a hard question since all I like is to see my monitor color corrected, but if the kwin patch worked well upstream that would be a plus, tho afaik it will just use that X atom so colord would still fit..
[13:36] <dantti_laptop> two things I miss in colord-kde are profile graphics and the calibration tool enterily in qt/kde, the latter is on it's way, the former I'm too busy to do right now..
[13:36] <dantti_laptop> but last time I checked you only had one graph, also Apple has those graphs in 3D quite cool :P
[13:36] <oy> correct, the ICC Profile in X spec is nicely shared
[13:37] <oy> G-C-M reuses my code from ICC Examin for 3D profile views
[13:37] <oy> with ICC Examin being installed that is used in KolorManager a button click away
[13:38] <oy> you can use that too in colord-kde, but oh, ICC Examin uses extensively Oyranos
[13:40]  * oy needs to leave for food now
[13:57] <Blizzz> Riddell: tbh no
[13:59] <Blizzz> Riddell: in 4.0.9 it is included, part of files_odfviewer app
[14:01] <dantti_laptop> Riddell: it seems there's no colord-kde-dbg, is that expected? there is one bug report in LP that I have no clue without a BT.. I actually never saw a kded crash because of it..
[14:04] <Riddell> dantti_laptop: -dbg packages are from debian and have to be manually maintained, ubuntu has also -dbgsym packages that get made automatically
[14:04] <Riddell> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[14:05] <Riddell> deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com quantal main restricted universe multiverse
[14:05] <Riddell> should be the magic line
[14:06] <Riddell> Blizzz: that's just the compiled version, the src has disappeared
[14:06] <Riddell> was apps/files_odfviewer/src in 4.0.7
[14:09] <Blizzz> Riddell: maybe frank split it off, I will ask him
[14:14] <Riddell> Blizzz: thanks, means we can't ship it since it doesn't have source code
[14:16] <Blizzz> Riddell: while i'm waiting for his answer, doesn't it make more sense to go directly to 4.0.9 or is it not possible?
[14:18] <Riddell> Blizzz: for simplicity I was wanting to stay in sync with debian which is 4.0.8+patches and I think it's equivalent to 4.0.9
[14:19] <Riddell> Blizzz: I'm asking Thomas Mueller what his plans are for 4.5 in debian
[14:19] <Riddell> Blizzz: presumably 4.5 is the current stable?
[14:19] <Riddell> Blizzz: is Thomas Mueller an owncloud inc dude?
[14:23] <Riddell> Blizzz: got an answer from thomas on the webodf issue
[14:23] <Riddell> "The full sources from git have been removed as from my point of view the unminified javascript                                                               
[14:23] <Riddell> is enough to fulfill the requirement to change the code.                                                                                                     "
[14:24] <Riddell> hmm not sure I agree, it might not be competely minified but there's no white space in there
[14:24] <Blizzz> Riddell: yes, Thomas is the right place to ask, Frank just pointed me to him as well. He is a community member and does really a lot for us.
[14:27] <Blizzz> Riddell: the only problem with minified js is that it's hardly readable, but should be effectively the same as the original
[14:28] <Blizzz> i'd have also my doubts about it being good enough as src
[15:27] <ScottK> Riddell: Did someone accept owncloud already?
[16:56] <Riddell> ScottK: hum it got rejected
[16:57] <Riddell> "This upload queue does not permit SECURITY uploads."
[16:57] <Riddell> there must be a secret to uploading to quantal-security I'm not aware of
[17:45] <Riddell> ScottK: but owncloud still in queue for precise and oneiric
[18:12] <Riddell> rbelem: this git thing has defeated me
[18:12] <rbelem> Riddell: :-D
[18:13] <Riddell> rbelem: how do I get this diff? https://github.com/rbelem/icecream/commit/ef289875f2ce20801b44acc35d0e9a6c117e1804
[18:13] <Riddell> or can you just give me the new .orig.tar and .debian.tar ?
[18:13] <rbelem> Riddell: i will give you the .orig.tar and .debian.tar
[18:13] <rbelem> one second
[18:35] <danimo_> rbelem: will you upstrem the changes?
[18:36] <danimo_> rbelem: (icecream)
[18:36] <rbelem> danimo_: yup
[18:36] <danimo_> rbelem: great :)
[18:36]  * danimo_ is Upstream
[18:36] <rbelem> danimo_: awesome :-D
[18:37] <rbelem> danimo_: me and ragner, coworker, are working to make icecream build android
[18:38] <rbelem> danimo_: we already got it compiling, we are polishing the patches
[18:38] <rbelem> he already sent two
[18:38] <rbelem> that were merged already
[18:39] <danimo_> rbelem: cool
[18:40] <rbelem> danimo_: we built android from cold build in 16 min
[18:40] <danimo_> rbelem: seen it, coolo did it
[18:40] <rbelem> :-D
[18:40] <danimo_> rbelem: nice!
[18:45] <rbelem> Riddell: i'm adding more changes that i made
[18:51] <ScottK> Riddell: Only the security team can upload to security.
[18:52] <Riddell> yeah just read it
[18:52] <ScottK> OK.
[19:01] <ronnoc> shadeslayer: Ping
[19:14] <Elv1313> Hi, I get floods of email saying that my packages doesn't install on Ubuntu 12.10. I can confirm this. Look like kdelibs5 package name changed
[19:15] <Elv1313> Is there a backward compatible way to keep a single "debian" directory for all debian/ubuntu versions?
[19:15] <xnox> Depends: foo | bar
[19:15] <xnox> if bar got renamed to foo
[19:15] <Elv1313> Out build system automagically push on launchpad, but does not seem to support different packages for different distros
[19:16] <xnox> sure it does.
[19:16] <Elv1313> s/out/our
[19:16] <xnox> ah ok.
[19:16] <xnox> Elv1313: so use | for or.
[19:16] <xnox> Elv1313: Build-Depends: foo | bar
[19:16] <Elv1313> so kdelibs5 | kdelibs5-data?
[19:17] <Elv1313> https://projects.savoirfairelinux.com/projects/sflphone/repository/revisions/master/entry/tools/build-system/launchpad/sflphone-client-kde/debian/control
[19:18] <xnox> Elv1313: that looks wrong. as both packages exist since forever.
[19:18] <Elv1313> "kdelibs5" is not in Ubuntu anymore
[19:19] <Elv1313> it is there only if you upgraded early in the dev cycle, somehow
[19:19] <Elv1313> I guess it is why the packages seem to work for existing users, but not those with clean install
[19:20] <xnox> somebody who knows kdelibs5 should suggest what's the correct dependency
[19:20] <Elv1313> I guess it is kdelibs5-data
[19:22] <Riddell> Elv1313: it shouldn't have to depend on any library
[19:22] <Riddell> they'll get added in magically by the ${shlibs:Depends}
[19:22] <Elv1313> ok, cool, those packages are old
[19:22] <Riddell> so just remove "libqt4-dbus, kdelibs5, kdepimlibs5,"
[19:23] <Elv1313> Riddell: While you are there, I should merge my Umbrello branches as soon as the git is official
[19:23] <Elv1313> So I got 5 branches so far
[19:23] <Elv1313> I spent the last few weeks rewrting and rebasing them on top of what is now the umbrello-soc and thunk hybrid
[19:24] <Riddell> hum, I realise I've no idea how the git transition is getting on
[19:24] <Elv1313> I spoke to the student working on git, he should be done soon
[19:24] <Riddell> thanks
[19:24] <Elv1313> speak to darknight_ on #kde-git, he is there often
[19:25] <Elv1313> the rules for most of kdesdk seem to be ready
[20:25] <rbelem> Riddell: where should i send the files?
[21:13] <ScottK> OK, so I fixed the qreal/double issues (so far) in cantor on armhf, but then I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/1395372/ now.  Suggestions?
[21:43] <rbelem> Riddell: http://media.rbelem.info/icecc_0.9.8~git2012111901-0ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz
[21:44] <rbelem> Riddell: http://media.rbelem.info/icecc_0.9.8~git2012111901.orig.tar.bz2