[00:00] apachelogger: Did you actually need a ubot*? [00:02] no [00:02] don't we? [00:02] who will do the !ninjas and bug 123 foo? [00:03] we did not, we do generally though :P [00:29] Heya, greetings everyone! Out of curiosity, as I am not sure if I should stay with 12.04 or upgrade to 12.10 and didn't find any information on this on the web: Are there plans to update KDE SC (including e.g. kdevelop) to 4.10 or beyond in 12.04? [00:38] not really [00:39] traditionally we only backport KDE SC +1 [00:39] so 12.04 gets 4.9, 12.10 gets 4.11 etc. [00:42] ah ok, thanks a lot! [02:07] havent seen SteveRiley after UDS slot [02:07] *a lot [02:07] gosh, silly autocomplete [02:08] anyway, I hope we didn't scare him off :-) [02:12] ScottK: in here : https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental [02:14] I will upload sometime today ... probably after lunch ... just want to make sure I didn't miss anything === yofel_ is now known as yofel === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw [10:19] Blizzz and anyone: how's this message for people running owncloud on precise when they upgrade? http://ec2-50-19-40-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com/owncloud/ [10:26] ScottK: digikam uploaded [10:26] yay [10:28] Riddell: i've never seen that message. this upgrade to or from precise? [10:28] Blizzz: well I just wrote the message [10:28] it's an update for people using owncloud 3 in precise to remove the insecure owncloud 3 [10:29] ah, i see [10:30] Riddell: add link to reference of the security issue (security notification, bug report, something) and I'd be happy with it (: [10:30] Tm_T: I'm not sure owncloud has a maintained list of security issues, they just say to upgrade to the latest [10:31] which alas can't be done for precise [10:31] maybe pointers that config file (and db) is also kept? you could also point to the OBS repository where packages for *buntu are provided as well and are always up to date. [10:31] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/digikam/4:3.0.0~beta3-0ubuntu1 [10:31] \o/ [10:32] security advisories can be found here: http://owncloud.org/security/advisories/ [10:33] * Riddell types [10:42] Blizzz, Tm_T: how's this? http://ec2-50-19-40-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com/owncloud/ [10:43] looks good [10:43] +1 [11:56] dantti_laptop: you had an issue yesterday? [11:57] ScottK: owncloud removal bug 1079150 [11:57] Riddell: an issue with ? [11:57] dunno I remember you asking something and nobody replying [11:57] ah my co worker that didn't had oxygen in his available options? [11:58] it was quite odd, he had the same oxygen packages that I do but still it was not available as a theme [11:58] dantti_laptop: as a widget theme? [11:58] besides that his vpn only worked on cinnamon [11:58] yup [12:00] maybe qt isn't picking up the path for plugins from kde [12:01] it should be listed in ~/.config/Trolltech.conf [12:02] hmm ok, he is not here right now, once he arives I'll take a look at that path [12:45] Riddell: btw I think "This package is part of the KDE education module." is wrong, I think graphics module would be better [12:45] for colord-kde... [12:46] dantti_laptop: doh, looks like a copy and paste error [12:46] it's not part of any module is it? it's extragear? [12:47] it's in playground [12:48] I think it might end in extragear /graphics [12:48] since there is the oyranos alternative and it doesn't seem one of the two will be elected as default of KDE so soon [12:49] tho colord is currently the default of every gnome distro out there.. [12:49] Hrm, I think I just found a small Kontact bug that could fit in agateau's extra bits bug thing... [12:50] The checking for attachments words should not include quoted text... [12:51] only distro that I think ships oyranos is openSUSE KDE spin, but they already have packages for colord-kde and as the gnome version uses colord I think they might drop oyranos as well [12:52] dantti_laptop: where do you havethese informations from? [12:52] I'd love to see the oyranos guy helping to get the colord-kcm module improved, but doesn't look like this will ever happen.. [12:52] oy: which one? [12:52] Hey all [12:52] oy: from opensuse it's just expeculation.. [12:52] Oyranos is only distributed in openSUSE KDE spin [12:53] right so I'm not wrong :P [12:53] that's what I knew about it.. [12:53] that's plain wrong, you speculate nothing else :-( [12:53] I did, there are no fedora packages, nor ubuntu, debian... [12:54] wrong [12:54] at least I could not find any official one [12:54] one can google and will find packages for them [12:56] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/package-announce/2012-April/079351.html [12:56] http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=oyranos no result, http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=oyranos no result [12:57] odd I searched for a fedora package some time ago but could not find it.. [12:57] ok, not officially in debian, but I am working on that to get solved [13:01] oy: a shame we didn't met in person, I don't believe we would be able to get rid of this oyranos vs colord but maybe sharing some ideas.. :) [13:01] dantti_laptop, we (Oyranos + OpenICC) have invested quite some work on concepts, code and popularisation of colour management on Linux with quite projects near to KDE [13:03] I undestand that, unfurtunately I believe it would be the default on instalations if you have targettered gnome first (not that I like the idea but it's true) [13:03] so the question is more of, why do colord-kde peple try to bite Oyranos so often [13:03] * oy wonders to read that in a KDE dedicated channel [13:05] I'm not trying to bite Oyranos, I just think that since imo colord got a broader acception joining forces would be nicer.. [13:06] dantti_laptop, that might have been a interessting discussion on the CM hackfest in Brno [13:06] like colord-kde kcm could really use your skills and have those nice graphics that the gnome version has [13:07] dantti_laptop, colord is just a simple DB backend [13:07] sure, and imo that's all I need [13:07] why not work on merging the DB access? [13:07] complex things easly break [13:08] with a joined DB, colord-kde and KolorManager would interface the same stuff [13:09] sure, but then it's just dumb to have two interfaces... [13:09] dantti_laptop, richard (the author of colrod) stated it is a very simple daemon [13:10] I can't think of why it shouldn't be a very simple daemon.. [13:10] hm, Oyranos does a lot more then colord: http://www.oyranos.org/features/ [13:11] I code since quite some years photography and colour related stuff [13:11] it does, but pratically what does really matter? why apple designers don't care of not having complex settings for different ICC sets? [13:12] apple does behind the scenes a lot, but they are criticised as well [13:13] I really believe you have more knowledge on the matter than me, but I like things simple [13:13] colord-kde copys the "No option is a good option" approach from Gnome to KDE [13:14] I don't see what extra options are actually usefull on the normal day use.. [13:14] if it was a killer feature I bet richard would have added [13:14] there are others around who need some of those options for their dayly to work [13:15] that is assumption, fact is colord lacks a lot of useful features we have in Oyranos explored and implemented [13:16] part of that now goes into the KDE desktop -> KWin + colour managed printing in Krita [13:16] "No option is a good option" is a flawed understanding of "options increase maintenance". And whether the options are available directly in the application UI or in dconf-editor is entirely besides the point. [13:17] for example the policy thing, look at power-devil, it got much better once it droped this complexibility... [13:17] mikhas: the piont is, there is no excuse for lack of certain options [13:17] now there's anew word ":) [13:18] *point [13:19] dantti_laptop, policies in Oyranos are simply a set of options, no complexity involved [13:20] oy, I agree, it's just really really difficult to find the balance between "no options" and "so much flexibility that all development effort just goes into making sure all the options work" [13:20] it's complex since you open the kcm module and don't know what to do [13:21] the important thing is assigning an ICC profile to a device and that's not explicity on the first page [13:21] mikhas: or that the user understand that [13:21] oy: we will then discuss UI design... [13:22] mikhas: typical non needed options sorts out with time, (as long as they do not bit rot) [13:23] dantti_laptop, Oyranos has developed concepts, that only expert user need to look at the KolorManager UI [13:24] on the opposite, colord and thus colord-kde fully require, that all users have to understand CM and use the UI [13:24] if only experts should be using KM how are they supposed to calibrate the UI? [13:24] I'm amazed the word "functionality" hasn't crept into this discussion yet :>) [13:24] or switch between profiles? [13:24] BluesKaj, discussion is good [13:25] sure, I just had an idea of improvement for colord-kde :P [13:25] dantti_laptop, experts can do that and that is fine, np [13:25] oy , no doubt , but i was just trying to lighten things up some [13:26] dantti_laptop, but normal users are not interessted of CM and should not [13:26] I don't think they shouldn't care [13:26] * oy kindly understands BluesKaj [13:26] it's so nice to see my monitors looking the same [13:26] tho I don't do any painting/photo related stuff [13:27] dantti_laptop, anyway, there are different concepts and approaches, I do not see that my ideas would get a chance in a colord only world [13:27] Blizzz: I'm updating owncloud 4.0.7 in ubuntu 12.10, do you know why webodf was removed from the tar? === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [13:30] oy: well, lot's of debian developers said the same thing about packagekit 4 years ago, no debconf support, no media change, no way of showing which packages would be removed during an installation... [13:30] I persisted and solved all the issues... [13:30] richard might say no at first but not because he doesn't like the feature, but maily the way it's implemented.. [13:31] maybe it's worth looking at all the features you actually think it's usefull and discuss those [13:32] in the end sharing code would mean easier to maintain... [13:32] the other way around, what would you convince to use KolorManager / Oyranos? [13:32] agreed [13:35] oy: what would convince me to use oyranos it's a hard question since all I like is to see my monitor color corrected, but if the kwin patch worked well upstream that would be a plus, tho afaik it will just use that X atom so colord would still fit.. [13:36] two things I miss in colord-kde are profile graphics and the calibration tool enterily in qt/kde, the latter is on it's way, the former I'm too busy to do right now.. [13:36] but last time I checked you only had one graph, also Apple has those graphs in 3D quite cool :P [13:36] correct, the ICC Profile in X spec is nicely shared [13:37] G-C-M reuses my code from ICC Examin for 3D profile views [13:37] with ICC Examin being installed that is used in KolorManager a button click away [13:38] you can use that too in colord-kde, but oh, ICC Examin uses extensively Oyranos [13:40] * oy needs to leave for food now [13:57] Riddell: tbh no [13:59] Riddell: in 4.0.9 it is included, part of files_odfviewer app [14:01] Riddell: it seems there's no colord-kde-dbg, is that expected? there is one bug report in LP that I have no clue without a BT.. I actually never saw a kded crash because of it.. [14:04] dantti_laptop: -dbg packages are from debian and have to be manually maintained, ubuntu has also -dbgsym packages that get made automatically [14:04] see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash [14:05] deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com quantal main restricted universe multiverse [14:05] should be the magic line [14:06] Blizzz: that's just the compiled version, the src has disappeared [14:06] was apps/files_odfviewer/src in 4.0.7 [14:09] Riddell: maybe frank split it off, I will ask him [14:14] Blizzz: thanks, means we can't ship it since it doesn't have source code [14:16] Riddell: while i'm waiting for his answer, doesn't it make more sense to go directly to 4.0.9 or is it not possible? [14:18] Blizzz: for simplicity I was wanting to stay in sync with debian which is 4.0.8+patches and I think it's equivalent to 4.0.9 [14:19] Blizzz: I'm asking Thomas Mueller what his plans are for 4.5 in debian [14:19] Blizzz: presumably 4.5 is the current stable? [14:19] Blizzz: is Thomas Mueller an owncloud inc dude? [14:23] Blizzz: got an answer from thomas on the webodf issue [14:23] "The full sources from git have been removed as from my point of view the unminified javascript [14:23] is enough to fulfill the requirement to change the code. " [14:24] hmm not sure I agree, it might not be competely minified but there's no white space in there [14:24] Riddell: yes, Thomas is the right place to ask, Frank just pointed me to him as well. He is a community member and does really a lot for us. [14:27] Riddell: the only problem with minified js is that it's hardly readable, but should be effectively the same as the original [14:28] i'd have also my doubts about it being good enough as src [15:27] Riddell: Did someone accept owncloud already? === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw [16:56] ScottK: hum it got rejected [16:57] "This upload queue does not permit SECURITY uploads." [16:57] there must be a secret to uploading to quantal-security I'm not aware of [17:45] ScottK: but owncloud still in queue for precise and oneiric [18:12] rbelem: this git thing has defeated me [18:12] Riddell: :-D [18:13] rbelem: how do I get this diff? https://github.com/rbelem/icecream/commit/ef289875f2ce20801b44acc35d0e9a6c117e1804 [18:13] or can you just give me the new .orig.tar and .debian.tar ? [18:13] Riddell: i will give you the .orig.tar and .debian.tar [18:13] one second [18:35] rbelem: will you upstrem the changes? [18:36] rbelem: (icecream) [18:36] danimo_: yup [18:36] rbelem: great :) [18:36] * danimo_ is Upstream [18:36] danimo_: awesome :-D [18:37] danimo_: me and ragner, coworker, are working to make icecream build android [18:38] danimo_: we already got it compiling, we are polishing the patches [18:38] he already sent two [18:38] that were merged already [18:39] rbelem: cool [18:40] danimo_: we built android from cold build in 16 min [18:40] rbelem: seen it, coolo did it [18:40] :-D [18:40] rbelem: nice! [18:45] Riddell: i'm adding more changes that i made [18:51] Riddell: Only the security team can upload to security. [18:52] yeah just read it [18:52] OK. === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [19:01] shadeslayer: Ping [19:14] Hi, I get floods of email saying that my packages doesn't install on Ubuntu 12.10. I can confirm this. Look like kdelibs5 package name changed [19:15] Is there a backward compatible way to keep a single "debian" directory for all debian/ubuntu versions? [19:15] Depends: foo | bar [19:15] if bar got renamed to foo [19:15] Out build system automagically push on launchpad, but does not seem to support different packages for different distros [19:16] sure it does. [19:16] s/out/our [19:16] ah ok. [19:16] Elv1313: so use | for or. [19:16] Elv1313: Build-Depends: foo | bar [19:16] so kdelibs5 | kdelibs5-data? [19:17] https://projects.savoirfairelinux.com/projects/sflphone/repository/revisions/master/entry/tools/build-system/launchpad/sflphone-client-kde/debian/control [19:18] Elv1313: that looks wrong. as both packages exist since forever. [19:18] "kdelibs5" is not in Ubuntu anymore [19:19] it is there only if you upgraded early in the dev cycle, somehow [19:19] I guess it is why the packages seem to work for existing users, but not those with clean install [19:20] somebody who knows kdelibs5 should suggest what's the correct dependency [19:20] I guess it is kdelibs5-data [19:22] Elv1313: it shouldn't have to depend on any library [19:22] they'll get added in magically by the ${shlibs:Depends} [19:22] ok, cool, those packages are old [19:22] so just remove "libqt4-dbus, kdelibs5, kdepimlibs5," [19:23] Riddell: While you are there, I should merge my Umbrello branches as soon as the git is official [19:23] So I got 5 branches so far [19:23] I spent the last few weeks rewrting and rebasing them on top of what is now the umbrello-soc and thunk hybrid [19:24] hum, I realise I've no idea how the git transition is getting on [19:24] I spoke to the student working on git, he should be done soon [19:24] thanks [19:24] speak to darknight_ on #kde-git, he is there often [19:25] the rules for most of kdesdk seem to be ready [20:25] Riddell: where should i send the files? [21:13] OK, so I fixed the qreal/double issues (so far) in cantor on armhf, but then I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/1395372/ now. Suggestions? === ronnoc_ is now known as ronnoc === Sentynel- is now known as sentynel === sentynel is now known as Sentynel [21:43] Riddell: http://media.rbelem.info/icecc_0.9.8~git2012111901-0ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz [21:44] Riddell: http://media.rbelem.info/icecc_0.9.8~git2012111901.orig.tar.bz2