[16:05] <cqfd93> Hi Everybody!
[16:05] <hannie> hey cqfd93
[16:05] <hannie> are you one of our authors, editors or translators?
[16:05] <cqfd93> hannie, I used nl.po to generate the Dutch manual (precise)
[16:06] <hannie> is cqfd93 a nick for carsten?
[16:06] <cqfd93> oh sorry !  I'm Sylvie Gallet (French translator)
[16:06] <hannie> ah, nice to meet you
[16:06] <cqfd93> nice to meet you, too :-)
[16:06] <hannie> the name of my neighbour is Gallet (Lucien et Simone)
[16:07] <cqfd93> French names
[16:07] <hannie> cqfd93, did you get the index in the Dutch version of the manual?
[16:07] <cqfd93> Gallet is a very common name in France
[16:07] <hannie> I live in France
[16:07] <cqfd93> I was about to talk to you about the index
[16:08] <cqfd93> where in France?
[16:08] <hannie> ok, did you get it?
[16:08] <hannie> quarante six
[16:08] <hannie> Lot
[16:08] <cqfd93> ye, I got the index, but there are some problems, and like in the French manual, no links
[16:09] <hannie> ok, I just wrote to Kevin about it. When the index is ok we are ready to publish the Dutch version
[16:09] <cqfd93> lot: nice area!
[16:09] <hannie> and you (fr)?
[16:10] <hannie> Which links do you mean?
[16:10] <cqfd93> I wanted to see if you had the same problem we're having with the "Debien" index entry
[16:10] <cqfd93> Living near Parin
[16:11] <cqfd93> for the links, the page numbers just appear black regular numbers, they don't link to the pages
[16:11] <hannie> Have you installed texlive 2012?
[16:11] <cqfd93> yes
[16:11] <cqfd93> My texlive install is up to date
[16:12] <hannie> I installed it today (I had 2011), but the index doesn't show
[16:12] <YoBoY> cqfd93, hannie I talk with kevin the other day about these links in the index, he deactivated them for now
[16:13] <YoBoY> > YoBoY: Ah,  that's not a bug per se.
[16:13] <YoBoY> > YoBoY: The hyperref package (which provides the links) and the xindy program (which handles the indexing), aren't completely compatible.
[16:13] <hannie> hey YoBoY , so that may be the problem
[16:13] <cqfd93> Hi YoBoY!
[16:13] <YoBoY> bonjour :)
[16:14] <hannie> well, if Kevin awakes, he will answer my email
[16:14] <cqfd93> The Dutch translation has another problem: they translated all of the see| and seealso| (these should remain in English)
[16:15] <hannie> ay, cqfd93 I'll have to fix that
[16:15] <hannie> I am going to have a look right now
[16:16] <cqfd93> hannie, after you fix that, you will probably have another error caused by "Debian|seealso{Linux}"
[16:17] <hannie> gotit, I am going to fix it straightaway (I never noticed ;) )
[16:17] <YoBoY> and I asked on launchpad mailing list and on a french LaTeX mailing list how to deal with our nbsp problems with the best flexibility :)
[16:17] <YoBoY> seems Launchpad can't help us on that
[16:18] <hannie> what is nbsp?
[16:18] <YoBoY> non breaking space
[16:18] <hannie> ok
[16:18] <YoBoY> we use them a lot in French typography :)
[16:19] <cqfd93> hannie: you can temporarily replace it with "Debian" but the index entry will show two page numbers instead of just page 6
[16:19] <hannie> Should they be added to the clo file?
[16:19] <hannie> nbsp I mean
[16:19] <hannie> cqfd93, I'll do that too
[16:20] <cqfd93> ok, hope it helps!
[16:20] <hannie> I will let you know
[16:20] <cqfd93> ok
[16:23] <YoBoY> hannie, there is already nbsp, it's just they cause some bugs with the tools we use. It's for now fixed, but it's not clean enought. It's why I try to find a better way to deal with them :)
[16:23] <hannie> right, thanks for explaining
[16:26] <hannie> cqfd93, I have fixed the see/seealso. Before I test, should I replace Linux with Debian?
[16:26] <hannie> "Debian|seealso{Debian}"
[16:27] <hannie> I could also use # to leave it out for the moment
[16:29] <cqfd93> Just replace it with "Debian"
[16:30] <cqfd93> hannie, did you update hyperref 6.83m as it was required a few days ago for revision 168 in quantal and rev 123 in precise?
[16:30] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/123 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 123
[16:32] <hannie> the first link gives me "Not found"
[16:32] <hannie> the second also
[16:33] <YoBoY> don't trust the bot :)
[16:33] <hannie> No, they are just machines ;)
[16:33] <YoBoY> he can only give links for the focus branch and it's raring now
[16:36] <hannie> in revision 123 (Precise-e2) I see % Hyperref options for print/screen versions
[16:37] <hannie> %\RequirePackage{ccicons}% Creative Commons icons
[16:37] <hannie> can I just use the command apt-get install ccicons?
[16:47]  * cqfd93 trying to find kevin's email where he explains how to opdate hyperref
[16:48] <YoBoY> hannie, you just have to launch the install-pkgs.sh to have the ccbysa working, but I don't know if kevin already corrected a bug on that
[16:48] <cqfd93> I don't know about ccicons
[16:49] <hannie> YoBoY, did that already, but U used the precise-e2 folder /pkgs
[16:49] <hannie> I have just installed texlive-extra-fonts
[16:50] <hannie> I am going to do another check for packages
[16:50] <YoBoY> yes sure, I'm not mixing versions ^^
[16:50] <hannie> I had a fight with removing 2011, but now I have 2012
[16:52] <hannie> install-pkgs.sh report: Done! You should now be able to compile the Ubuntu manual!
[16:54] <hannie> oops! Warning: Old configuration style found in /etc/texmf/updmap.d
[16:54] <hannie> Warning: For now these files have been included,
[16:54] <hannie> Looks like version 2011 has not been removed completely
[16:55] <cqfd93> Just generated your manual (precise: 147 pages) it's showint some problems in the index (duplicate entries) that will require some cleaning in the translation (we had the same kind of problems in the French manuals a few days ago)
[16:56] <cqfd93> hannie: good! Are you trying to generate the pdf?
[16:56] <hannie> cqfd93, did you use my latest nl.po (see/seealso fixed)?
[16:57] <hannie> cqfd93, I get 145 pages, because the index is not generated
[16:57] <cqfd93> I fixed it on my computer :-)
[16:57] <hannie> ok, now it is fixed in LP too
[16:58] <cqfd93> do you get a "success" message?
[16:58] <hannie> I do get 1 error, tried to find it, but no success. Besides, you used the same po file without problems
[16:59] <hannie> So, the problem is my texlive 2012
[16:59] <hannie> No file ubuntu-manual-nl.ind.
[16:59] <hannie> I guess this means the index file was not made
[17:00] <cqfd93> the culprit is probably your hyperref version
[17:00] <hannie> cqfd93, any idea how I can update this hyperref version?
[17:01] <hannie> hi CarstenG
[17:01] <hannie> No file ubuntu-manual-nl.ind.
[17:01] <CarstenG> Hi Hannie
[17:01] <cqfd93> hannie, here is a link to your manual http://ubuntuone.com/3x710bSerEI3hOhgUIxDxd
[17:01] <cqfd93> hi CarstenG
[17:02] <CarstenG> Hi Sylvie
[17:02] <cqfd93> hannie, try this command sudo tlmgr update --all --self
[17:03] <cqfd93> tlmgr is the texlive update manager
[17:04] <hannie> cqfd93, output is: tlmgr: no updates available
[17:04] <cqfd93> sounds good
[17:05] <hannie> not so good, because my problem is still not solved :(
[17:05] <cqfd93> right!
[17:05] <hannie> tlmgr revision 28216 (2012-11-09 13:34:08 +0100)
[17:05] <hannie> tlmgr using installation: /usr/local/texlive/2012
[17:05] <hannie> TeX Live (http://tug.org/texlive) version 2012
[17:06] <hannie> here you can see I have version 2012 installed
[17:06] <hannie> I am afraid I will have to reinstall Ubuntu altogether
[17:08] <cqfd93> reinstalling ubuntu might be too much!
[17:08] <hannie> well, reinstalling texlive only gives misery
[17:09] <hannie> The font "CC Icons" cannot be found.
[17:09] <cqfd93> Was the manual generated in Dutch with just the index missing?
[17:09] <hannie> I have just installed texlive-extra-fonts
[17:09] <hannie> I thought ccicons was in there
[17:10] <cqfd93> I remember I had ti install the font, just don't remember when and where I got it
[17:10] <hannie> cqfd93, yes, the manual looks good, only there is no index
[17:10] <hannie> and the English version gives me the ccicons error
[17:10] <cqfd93> you may have to talk with kevin about that, I'm not sure I can really help
[17:11] <hannie> well, you have been a help so far, only finding the solution is very hard
[17:21] <cqfd93> Still can't find where I got ccicons...
[17:22] <hannie> don't worry, I'll find it
[17:25] <CarstenG> Hannie, I have just read your discussion with Sylvie in the logs.
[17:26] <CarstenG> Could you pleas do a "make clean"
[17:26] <hannie> ok, any suggestions? I cannot generate the indes. The rest is fine
[17:26] <CarstenG> And then a "make ubuntu-manual-nl.pdf"
[17:26] <hannie> *index
[17:26] <CarstenG> And email me the complete output from the terminal.
[17:26] <godbyk> Hey, hannie. I just uploaded the Dutch title page to the precise-e2 branch so it should start appearing in the PDF.
[17:26] <hannie> I already did that twice :( I'll do it once more (for you ;) )
[17:27] <cqfd93> hi godbyk!
[17:27] <godbyk> Hey, Sylvie!
[17:27] <godbyk> I'm just getting caught up on the conversations here. :)
[17:27] <hannie> hey godbyk My worries at the moment are that I cannot generate the index
[17:28] <hannie> godbyk, thanks for the title page
[17:29] <godbyk> hannie: Okay. Should I use the nl.po in the repository or the one from Launchpad?
[17:29] <hannie> I uploaded the latest version to LP a while ago. That one is fine
[17:30] <godbyk> Okay. I'm building the PDF now with the one from the repository. We'll see how it goes.
[17:30] <hannie> I'll keep my fingers crossed
[17:30] <godbyk> hannie: I had to remove the links from the index because they were confusing the indexing program. For now, I think we'll just have to leave the linked turned off in the index.
[17:31] <godbyk> cqfd93: I figured out why the Debian entry was showing two page numbers.
[17:31] <hannie> CarstenG, a miracle has happened. The third time I gave the same commands I suddenly get 149 pages (instead of 145)
[17:31] <godbyk> cqfd93: The \index{Debian|seealso{Linux}} command it at the top of the index file (which is okay).
[17:31] <hannie> Let me see if I get an index now
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: But when we remove the seealso bit, it becomes a regular index entry (with a page number), and that's bad.
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: So the better solution is just to remove that entire \index line.
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: Unfortunately, this can't be done from Launchpad. We can only do it by modifying the fr.po file itself.
[17:32] <godbyk> cqfd93: So we'll deal with that once all the other translation stuff has been finished in Launchpad.
[17:33] <hannie> I'll be **** CarstenG I think you are a witch doctor :)
[17:33] <hannie> godbyk, I have done a make clean for the 3rd time and suddenly I get the index
[17:34] <cqfd93> kevin: a few days ago, I told you that the best fix would be to remove the \index{Debian} and keep Debian|see{Linux}  (but see, not seealso)
[17:34] <hannie> godbyk, so now I can finally check the index for errors. You do not have to bother about it anymore
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: Strange.
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: I'm glad to hear it's working for you, though.
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: Did you get the new CC Icons font installed?
[17:35] <hannie> godbyk, it was blood sweat and tears to replace texlive 2011 with 2012
[17:35] <godbyk> hannie: Just run the install-pkgs.sh script from either the quantal or raring branches. (I haven't uploaded it to precise-e2, yet.)
[17:36] <hannie> godbyk, I did that several times. Everything ok the log says
[17:36] <godbyk> hannie: I'm surprised it was so difficult. You should've been able to just remove the /usr/local/texlive/2011 directory and install 2012 as usual.
[17:36] <godbyk> hannie: I just checked the Dutch PDF here and the index shows up. So hopefully it was just a temporary problem on your end.
[17:36] <godbyk> hannie: Let me know if you continue to encounter problems with it, though.
[17:37] <hannie> godbyk, I made a very big mistake, I used gksudo to remove 2011. And I am punished for it
[17:38] <hannie> godbyk, I'll check the index and let you know when it is ok tomorrow
[17:38] <godbyk> hannie: I would expect that to work. (Though I'm a command-line kind of guy, so I would've just ran 'sudo rm -fr /usr/local/texlive/2011/' from the terminal.)
[17:39] <hannie> godbyk, the sudo etc. did not work, so I tried the stronger root admin option
[17:39] <CarstenG> Hey Hannie, congratulations!
[17:39] <CarstenG> Nice to see, that it now works. :-)
[17:39] <hannie> CarstenG, yes, I am glad the misery is over ;)
[17:40] <hannie> I will not lightly use gksudo in the future
[17:41] <hannie> godbyk, what does the -fr in your command do?
[17:42] <godbyk> hannie: -f is force and -r is recursive.  -r lets you remove entire directories. and -f tells it not to ask any questions. :)
[17:43] <hannie> ah, I should learn all these options. they are very powerful indeed.
[17:48] <hannie> godbyk, I used sudo apt-get remove texlive-* (from our website), but that did not remove /usr/local/texlive/2011
[17:49] <godbyk> hannie: No, that would only remove any Ubuntu texlive package you have installed.
[17:49] <godbyk> hannie: You have to remove the /usr/local/tex/live/2011 directory manually.
[17:49] <godbyk> hannie: (Though it doesn't hurt anything if you leave it there when you install 2012. It just takes up space on your hard drive.)
[17:52] <hannie> godbyk, no, when I installed texlive from Ubuntu software center I got conflicts with /usr/local/texlive/2011
[17:52] <godbyk> hannie: Oh, strange.
[17:52] <godbyk> I was hoping that we could start using the Ubuntu texlive packages, but we can't if we want the index to work right.
[17:53] <hannie> that's why I decided to radically remove /2011 with gksudo (and bled for it)
[17:53] <godbyk> (For people who aren't worried about the index, they can still use the Ubuntu texlive packages, though.)
[17:54] <hannie> godbyk, using the instructions on our website to install texlive work fine
[17:56] <godbyk> On an unrelated note, it's nice to see some activity in this channel again. :)
[17:57] <hannie> talking about activity, it won't take long before we have to start with raring
[17:58] <godbyk> hannie: Yes.
[17:58] <godbyk> We'll have to have a meeting and set the dates for the milestones and make sure we still have authors and editors.
[17:59] <hannie> I am just checking the release schedule
[18:00] <hannie> I see the final beta release is on March 28 2013
[18:01] <godbyk> What day is the final release?
[18:01] <hannie> April 25
[18:01] <hannie> So if we wait for the final beta release, we have one month
[18:02] <hannie> Would that be sufficient? I do not think going from Quantal to Raring will be a very big step with lots of changes
[18:03] <hannie> Alpha 2 is released on February 7th
[18:06] <godbyk> I think we should start writing before the beta release, but we can fix any last-minute changes during editing.
[18:07] <godbyk> I hope they stick to the feature freeze and UI freeze better this time.
[18:07] <hannie> ok, so starting from alpha 2 would be fine
[18:08] <godbyk> I think so. And if anyone wants to dive in earlier, I have no complaints about that. ;-)
[18:08] <hannie> We could plan a meeting beginning of February 2013
[18:09] <godbyk> We may have an earlier meeting, too, to plan some other parts of the project that don't directly involve writing the manual (e.g., the website, e-book possibilities).
[18:10] <hannie> ok, how about beginning of January?
[18:13] <godbyk> That sounds good.
[18:13] <godbyk> I'll send out an email after the holidays and we'll find a good time for everyone to meet.
[18:13] <hannie> great! see you all, guys
[18:14] <CarstenG> Hannie, you changed in rev 128 the command "\appendixname" to "appendix". So you do not get the Dutch translation "Bijlage"
[18:14] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/128 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 128
[18:14] <CarstenG> for that word any more.
[18:14] <godbyk> See you, hannie!
[18:14] <CarstenG> What's wrong with that word?
[18:15] <CarstenG> ok, I will email her. :-)
[18:15] <godbyk> CarstenG: Guess so. :)
[18:25] <CarstenG> Oh, there is again a new language complete in precise-e2, Malay
[18:25] <CarstenG> Great to see!
[18:26] <godbyk> Cool.
[18:27] <godbyk> My current task is trying to sort out how to get our PDFs to work well with all of lulu.com's printers.
[18:32] <CarstenG> I had the idea, to go to a local copy shop with our PDF and let them test it for any problems.
[18:40] <godbyk> CarstenG: Well, Jeremy's PDF test program didn't report any problems after we fixed the transparency issues.
[18:40] <godbyk> CarstenG: I'm looking into getting a copy of Adobe Acrobat to see if it can fix things.
[19:24] <CarstenG> Yes, good idea.
[19:25] <CarstenG> I have to leave now
[19:25] <CarstenG> See you