[00:18] pleia2, hope this isn't a dumb question: where is the FAQ doc for Q? I'd like to look at the questions you want help on but wanted to compare to what's out there already. [00:19] jjfrv8: it's in a xubuntu.org post draft, I don't think we had a public place for collaboration aside general from general discussion here [00:19] (and now on list) [00:19] they are all similar to past FAQ we've done though [00:19] from past releases: http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/ [00:20] Yup, got those. Okay, I'll take a stab at #'s 3 & 8. [00:20] awesome, thank you :) [00:48] pleia2, i had made this back in the day http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/C2kd45fYMJ [00:49] GridCube: ah, yeah, looks like that was mostly copied over and morphed into what we have now === jackson__ is now known as Noskcaj [10:57] mr_pouit: thanks for fixing the 'double partitions on the desktop' bug! [10:58] everybody: I have a wish list for Xubuntu 13.04, that I would like to discuss with you: [10:59] 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural place is in a mini like Lubuntu... [10:59] 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool professional tool... [10:59] Of course I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD-R and DVD-RW that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find CD-R's, if you're lucky. [11:01] What do you think? [11:02] I'd agree [11:03] i guess the main issue of "should we stick to 700mb images for cds" should be broadly discussed [11:03] i had a lengthy discussion with knome about it a few days ago, he seems to like the idea of sticking to cds (not going to repeat his arguments here and now), maybe we should discuss it on the mailinglist [11:04] so, pjotr (or elfy), feel free to post to the ML ;) [11:08] not sure I'm worried enough to do that - takes me a few minutes to do all that with an install :) [11:08] First impressions are important.... [11:10] well my main point about cd size is that we don't have much space to "move" right now [11:15] pjotr: Synaptic is going away, AFAIUI. Not sure about gdebi, but possibly. [11:16] astraljava: why would Synaptic go? You mean upstream will kill it? [11:17] ochosi: I've just sent my wish list to the mailing list. [11:29] pjotr: Well I'm not sure, but considering the home page has last been updated in '09, I'd say it's not very strongly alive, either. [11:32] But that page is probably not the real one. There's practically nothing of interest in savannah.nongnu.org. [11:37] astraljava: this is the ral page, I think: http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/synaptic.html [11:38] Thank heaven, it's alive and kicking.... :-) [11:54] Yes well, that's the debian package page, not the upstream, unless debian _is_ the upstream. [13:41] afaik, michael vogt (mvo) is the maintainer of synaptic [13:41] or used to be [13:41] or sth. [13:41] GridCube, is the question in #x in the FAQ? [13:41] not that i know off, no [13:43] maybe it should [13:43] sure, its pretty common [13:43] yeah [13:43] it should cover everything in theming, not just the panel [13:43] ...maybe [13:44] or even the menu layout [13:45] knome: In this case, does maintainer != upstream author? [13:45] i don't know [13:46] but aiui, he's the one that has made sure it works [13:46] at least he'd know more of it [13:46] pleia2: the messaging menu regression basically comprises that we don't ship it anymore and that ppl who need/want it should stick with 12.04 [13:47] saw him at uds and said hi (hanged out with him too in uds-j) === yofel_ is now known as yofel [14:01] ochosi, re: drop CD size [14:02] i don't think it's a good idea to switch to DVD/USB just because we want to include X, Y and Z [14:02] o/ [14:02] knome: feel free to post that to the thread on the ML [14:02] but i never said that [14:02] in fact i tried to explicitely disconnect those two discussions [14:02] can i argue back the reasoning i gave to dropping the alternate iso's¡ [14:02] s/¡/?/ [14:03] we should first think if those really fit the xubuntu "core"; then we're looking at the actual list of things we want to include, and also know the approximate image space that would eay [14:03] eat [14:03] ochosi, yeah. just saying :) [14:04] ochosi, i just had a really clear moment and i realized that it's too easy to say "we want X, Y and Z, why don't we add Y2 and Z2 too because they'll fit" and then realize what we really wanted was Y only... [14:04] Y2 and Z2 is a linux mint thing [14:05] 3 media player [14:05] >.< [14:05] hah [14:05] actually, I think they have 4 [14:05] the reasoning after cd size, the strongest one, is, it wont fit on older machines with just a cd-rom reader, and my question is, do we orientate our product to that market? if yes then why we dropped alternate? I dont think we market to older machines anymore, we shouldnt be constricted by their need, if you need a smaller disk, use the mini [14:05] i was just referring to things that aren't X, Y or Z, but i ran out of letters [14:06] even when no access to dvd media wasn't a problem, less to download is still less to download... [14:06] and less to maintain [14:06] and less to worry about [14:06] and less to document [14:06] ...you get the idea [14:06] i do [14:07] but more annoyance (and then download) for users that are missing some core apps they may have previously depended on [14:07] When ubuntu dropped cd size, they didn't add anything, they kept their standard package set. [14:08] the problem is that everything is getting bigger [14:08] bluesabre_, sure. [14:09] bigger kernel, bigger (more) translations, newer toolkits (not mixing with xfce's older toolkits) [14:10] I wonder if it will be possible to maintain CD size until the next LTS. [14:10] +1 [14:10] anyway, bbl [14:10] yeah [14:10] please share thoughts on the ML [14:10] have fun knome! [14:10] i'll chime in when i get to my desktop [15:00] does openoffice needs java?, its java inculded on the standard iso? [15:03] http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/faq/general-faq/does-libreoffice-require-java/ [15:04] so, if libreoffice its added to the iso we need to have java for it [15:06] yeah, there are tons of arguments against libreoffice by default [17:08] ochosi: thanks, do we want to explain why we don't have it anymore? (don't feel like it? :) not working great with 4.10?) [17:11] * micahg will have to review those threads next week [19:09] Dumb thought, but has anyone talked to the release team about using xz for ISO compression? Cuts down quite a bit on the size front. [19:11] Unit193, could you? [19:11] Crap. [19:11] thanks. [19:18] Awwh, I asked just at the wrong moment here. XZ doesn't permit the images to rsync right now. [21:35] so, we got a couple responses to our FAQ thread, knome anything to add? I don't actually know the answer to the "open stuff on certain desktop" question, or if the one suggested it what we should recommend [21:35] pleia2, "how do i get the defaults back" [21:35] stop adding more questions! [21:35] :) [21:35] you can only add it if you have an answer [21:36] lol [21:41] pleia2, maybe we can write an article about that then. [21:41] pleia2, it should cover many things anyway, like the panels, the menu layout, all configuration and probably talk about backuping too [21:42] what, offering suggestions without volunteering to do any work? [21:42] :D [21:42] ok [21:42] yes. problem? [21:42] ;) [21:42] well, i can probably look into the article later this year [21:42] or next month [21:42] or in 2013 [21:42] which ever sounds less procrastinating for you :P [21:42] hehe [21:42] "after the holidays" is a popular one right now [21:43] that's a bad one. technically, i don't have one.. [21:43] you have a new year! [21:43] ..yes, but if clients need, i should be working then!