[00:18] <jjfrv8> pleia2, hope this isn't a dumb question: where is the FAQ doc for Q? I'd like to look at the questions you want help on but wanted to compare to what's out there already.
[00:19] <pleia2> jjfrv8: it's in a xubuntu.org post draft, I don't think we had a public place for collaboration aside general from general discussion here
[00:19] <pleia2> (and now on list)
[00:19] <pleia2> they are all similar to past FAQ we've done though
[00:19] <pleia2> from past releases: http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/
[00:20] <jjfrv8> Yup, got those.  Okay, I'll take a stab at #'s 3 & 8.
[00:20] <pleia2> awesome, thank you :)
[00:48] <GridCube> pleia2, i had made this back in the day http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/C2kd45fYMJ
[00:49] <pleia2> GridCube: ah, yeah, looks like that was mostly copied over and morphed into what we have now
[10:57] <pjotr> mr_pouit: thanks for fixing the 'double partitions on the desktop' bug!
[10:58] <pjotr> everybody: I have a wish list for Xubuntu 13.04, that I would like to discuss with you:
[10:59] <pjotr> 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural place is in a mini like Lubuntu...
[10:59] <pjotr> 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool professional tool...
[10:59] <pjotr> Of course I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD-R and DVD-RW that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find CD-R's, if you're lucky.
[11:01] <pjotr> What do you think?
[11:02] <elfy> I'd agree 
[11:03] <ochosi> i guess the main issue of "should we stick to 700mb images for cds" should be broadly discussed
[11:03] <ochosi> i had a lengthy discussion with knome about it a few days ago, he seems to like the idea of sticking to cds (not going to repeat his arguments here and now), maybe we should discuss it on the mailinglist
[11:04] <ochosi> so, pjotr (or elfy), feel free to post to the ML ;)
[11:08] <elfy> not sure I'm worried enough to do that - takes me a few minutes to do all that with an install :)
[11:08] <pjotr> First impressions are important....
[11:10] <ochosi> well my main point about cd size is that we don't have much space to "move" right now
[11:15] <astraljava> pjotr: Synaptic is going away, AFAIUI. Not sure about gdebi, but possibly.
[11:16] <pjotr> astraljava: why would Synaptic go? You mean upstream will kill it?
[11:17] <pjotr> ochosi: I've just sent my wish list to the mailing list.
[11:29] <astraljava> pjotr: Well I'm not sure, but considering the home page has last been updated in '09, I'd say it's not very strongly alive, either.
[11:32] <astraljava> But that page is probably not the real one. There's practically nothing of interest in savannah.nongnu.org.
[11:37] <pjotr> astraljava: this is the ral page, I think: http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/synaptic.html
[11:38] <pjotr> Thank heaven, it's alive and kicking.... :-)
[11:54] <astraljava> Yes well, that's the debian package page, not the upstream, unless debian _is_ the upstream.
[13:41] <knome> afaik, michael vogt (mvo) is the maintainer of synaptic
[13:41] <knome> or used to be
[13:41] <knome> or sth.
[13:41] <knome> GridCube, is the question in #x in the FAQ?
[13:41] <GridCube> not that i know off, no
[13:43] <knome> maybe it should
[13:43] <GridCube> sure, its pretty common
[13:43] <knome> yeah
[13:43] <knome> it should cover everything in theming, not just the panel
[13:43] <knome> ...maybe
[13:44] <knome> or even the menu layout
[13:45] <astraljava> knome: In this case, does maintainer != upstream author?
[13:45] <knome> i don't know
[13:46] <knome> but aiui, he's the one that has made sure it works
[13:46] <knome> at least he'd know more of it
[13:46] <ochosi> pleia2: the messaging menu regression basically comprises that we don't ship it anymore and that ppl who need/want it should stick with 12.04
[13:47] <knome> saw him at uds and said hi (hanged out with him too in uds-j)
[14:01] <knome> ochosi, re: drop CD size
[14:02] <knome> i don't think it's a good idea to switch to DVD/USB just because we want to include X, Y and Z
[14:02] <GridCube> o/
[14:02] <ochosi> knome: feel free to post that to the thread on the ML
[14:02] <ochosi> but i never said that
[14:02] <ochosi> in fact i tried to explicitely disconnect those two discussions
[14:02] <GridCube> can i argue back the reasoning i gave to dropping the alternate iso's¡
[14:02] <GridCube> s/¡/?/
[14:03] <knome> we should first think if those really fit the xubuntu "core"; then we're looking at the actual list of things we want to include, and also know the approximate image space that would eay
[14:03] <knome> eat
[14:03] <knome> ochosi, yeah. just saying :)
[14:04] <knome> ochosi, i just had a really clear moment and i realized that it's too easy to say "we want X, Y and Z, why don't we add Y2 and Z2 too because they'll fit" and then realize what we really wanted was Y only...
[14:04] <bluesabre_> Y2 and Z2 is a linux mint thing
[14:05] <bluesabre_> 3 media player
[14:05] <bluesabre_> >.<
[14:05] <knome> hah
[14:05] <bluesabre_> actually, I think they have 4
[14:05] <GridCube> the reasoning after cd size, the strongest one, is, it wont fit on older machines with just a cd-rom reader, and my question is, do we orientate our product to that market? if yes then why we dropped alternate?  I dont think we market to older machines anymore, we shouldnt be constricted by their need, if you need a smaller disk, use the mini
[14:05] <knome> i was just referring to things that aren't X, Y or Z, but i ran out of letters
[14:06] <knome> even when no access to dvd media wasn't a problem, less to download is still less to download...
[14:06] <knome> and less to maintain
[14:06] <knome> and less to worry about
[14:06] <knome> and less to document
[14:06] <knome> ...you get the idea
[14:06] <GridCube> i do
[14:07] <bluesabre_> but more annoyance (and then download) for users that are missing some core apps they may have previously depended on
[14:07] <bluesabre_> When ubuntu dropped cd size, they didn't add anything, they kept their standard package set.
[14:08] <bluesabre_> the problem is that everything is getting bigger
[14:08] <knome> bluesabre_, sure.
[14:09] <bluesabre_> bigger kernel, bigger (more) translations, newer toolkits (not mixing with xfce's older toolkits)
[14:10] <bluesabre_> I wonder if it will be possible to maintain CD size until the next LTS.
[14:10] <ochosi> +1
[14:10] <knome> anyway, bbl
[14:10] <bluesabre_> yeah
[14:10] <knome> please share thoughts on the ML
[14:10] <bluesabre_> have fun knome!
[14:10] <knome> i'll chime in when i get to my desktop
[15:00] <GridCube> does openoffice needs java?, its java inculded on the standard iso?
[15:03] <GridCube> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/faq/general-faq/does-libreoffice-require-java/
[15:04] <GridCube> so, if libreoffice its added to the iso we need to have java for it
[15:06] <ochosi> yeah, there are tons of arguments against libreoffice by default
[17:08] <pleia2> ochosi: thanks, do we want to explain why we don't have it anymore? (don't feel like it? :) not working great with 4.10?)
[17:11]  * micahg will have to review those threads next week
[19:09] <Unit193> Dumb thought, but has anyone talked to the release team about using xz for ISO compression?  Cuts down quite a bit on the size front.
[19:11] <knome> Unit193, could you?
[19:11] <Unit193> Crap.
[19:11] <knome> thanks.
[19:18] <Unit193> Awwh, I asked just at the wrong moment here.  XZ doesn't permit the images to rsync right now.
[21:35] <pleia2> so, we got a couple responses to our FAQ thread, knome anything to add? I don't actually know the answer to the "open stuff on certain desktop" question, or if the one suggested it what we should recommend
[21:35] <knome> pleia2, "how do i get the defaults back"
[21:35] <pleia2> stop adding more questions!
[21:35] <pleia2> :)
[21:35] <pleia2> you can only add it if you have an answer
[21:36] <knome> lol
[21:41] <knome> pleia2, maybe we can write an article about that then.
[21:41] <knome> pleia2, it should cover many things anyway, like the panels, the menu layout, all configuration and probably talk about backuping too
[21:42] <pleia2> what, offering suggestions without volunteering to do any work?
[21:42] <pleia2> :D
[21:42] <pleia2> ok
[21:42] <knome> yes. problem?
[21:42] <knome> ;)
[21:42] <knome> well, i can probably look into the article later this year
[21:42] <knome> or next month
[21:42] <pleia2> or in 2013
[21:42] <knome> which ever sounds less procrastinating for you :P
[21:42] <pleia2> hehe
[21:42] <pleia2> "after the holidays" is a popular one right now
[21:43] <knome> that's a bad one. technically, i don't have one..
[21:43] <pleia2> you have a new year!
[21:43] <knome> ..yes, but if clients need, i should be working then!