=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_aw === mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|lunch === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio__ === mmrazik|lunch is now known as mmrazik === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_aw === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio__ === doko_ is now known as doko === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === popey_ is now known as popey [15:35] * popey hugs didrocks [15:35] * didrocks hugs popey back [15:36] greetings [15:39] hi === yofel_ is now known as yofel [15:55] I'm here for the Meat [16:00] hello everyone, let's get started with the weekly Nexus 7 meeting [16:00] #startmeeting [16:00] Meeting started Fri Nov 30 16:00:28 2012 UTC. The chair is achiang. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [16:00] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [16:00] today, we have a light agenda [16:00] 1) brief status update [16:00] 2) discussion about memory leaks [16:01] 3) q&a [16:01] #topic Status Update === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status Update [16:01] oops, i don't know if that's what i wanted [16:01] #meetingtopic status update === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | status update Meeting | Current topic: Status Update [16:02] oh well [16:02] can't help you with meetingbot :( [16:02] anyway, i am sure that people have been eagerly awaiting the announcement for switching to raring [16:02] i am sorry to disappoint, but we have to wait just a little while longer [16:03] the last thing we are waiting for is a fix for nux, which is the opengl toolkit that unity is built on top of [16:03] the good news is, nux has been fixed [16:03] good to see that many people are joining in [16:03] well, you can play with the images by tapping blindly :) [16:03] when will it be ready? [16:03] achiang, I talked to didrocks and he said it will land early next week [16:03] only nux is missing [16:03] the bad news is, a proper package has not been built and uploaded into raring [16:03] the problem is that the test-suite or the test-suite runner needs a fix [16:03] nod [16:03] he said early next week, at worst mid next week [16:03] so we hope to have an announcement by the end of next week [16:03] (https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/nux/nux.depth-texture-detection-support/+merge/134729 for reference) [16:04] exciting times! [16:04] also unity is failing to build on armhf for now [16:04] ogra_: any other status updates for us you'd like to give? [16:04] another piece of feedback I have is that onboard will be reuploaded to the ppa (or the archive) because it's currently uninstallable [16:04] which isn't useful for the nexus7 :) [16:04] plymouth kind of works :) [16:04] so yeah, those are tracked and under fix [16:04] I assume that a simple rebuild (maybe of virtkey too) will do it [16:04] the installer (oem-config) works fine thanks to xnox for making compiz work in there (that fixed a wallpaper corruption bug for us) [16:05] would be better to get onboard/virtkey into raring archive, so we can get rid of the ppa for good [16:05] +1 [16:05] and currently i'm looking into making the initrd smaller so we can drop some hacks [16:05] apart from that my dist-upgrade to raring went fine ;-) [16:05] ogra_: how about the daily images? what is the url? [16:05] (or the kernel, either of tehm has to shrink) [16:05] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/ [16:06] [link] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/ [16:06] #link http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/ [16:06] one issue we still need to solve is the size, the current image is only suitable for 6G [16:06] hm, guess who doesn't know how to use meetingbot! :) [16:07] ok, any other status people want to share? [16:07] i worked a bit with infinity on that part already but that will need further work (we will most likely switch from tar,gz to tar,xz internally) [16:07] s/\,/\./ [16:07] cool [16:07] ogra_: anything else? [16:08] i think thats about it atm ... oh, i uploaded fixes for most of the bugs that were fixable by changing gsettings [16:08] ogra_: great, i hope you ran those changes past the desktop team. :) [16:08] ogra does that include the gksudo one? [16:08] achiang, defaults-seetings :) [16:08] kyleN_, nope, gksudo will be unseeded [16:09] ogra is their an alternate approach? [16:09] there [16:09] it is supposed to go away since over a year now ... time to actually make that happen ;) [16:09] pkexec, we use it everywheer already [16:09] ack [16:10] o/ [16:10] bootidsa: go [16:10] Quick question .. does anyone know Where one can buy a Nexus 7 with Ubuntu ? [16:10] this is not a product that comes pre-installed [16:10] you cant, you can only buy a nexus and install ubuntu yourself [16:10] bootidsa, but installing it is very easy - just refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation [16:10] not on Auction sites ? [16:10] it is a developer oriented build for now [16:10] oh OK [16:11] it's VERY easy [16:11] maybe bootidsa has discovered a business plan for us? [16:11] $$$ [16:11] achiang, oh, one thing that struck me additionally to the tegra drivers ... raring just switched to gstreamer 1.0 [16:11] i have Ubuntu installed in my Nexus7... i would like to contribute to the development..... is this possible? [16:11] there's an installer script that, as dholbach said, makes installing it very easy [16:11] gatox: sure, we' [16:11] gatox: let's take that question at the end please [16:11] gatox YES [16:11] gatox: sure we'd love to have help [16:11] achiang, that means the nvidia codecs and gstreamer bits will need to be ported by them [16:11] gatox, that'd be awesome [16:11] achiang, ack [16:12] ok, i think the status section of the meeting is wrapping up [16:12] 5 more seconds for someone to give status... [16:12] gatox, just hang around in #ubuntu-arm ... we're all there ;) [16:12] ok, great [16:12] let's move on [16:12] ogra-cb_, awesome..... thx! [16:12] the big topic for today is memory leaks [16:13] we think this would be a great place for the community to get involved... [16:13] and with that [16:13] i will hand it over to kyleN_ [16:13] kyleN_: if you could do a quick intro of yourself [16:13] thx achiang [16:13] clang ? [16:13] and then go for it! [16:13] I worked with achiang and for canonical. [16:13] present tense... kyleN_ still works with me and still works for canonical :) [16:13] i think this is an exciting project with the potentia to improve Ubuntu generaly [16:14] right ;) [16:14] so, I'll give an overview of our current thinking about memory leaks [16:14] Valgrind finds memory leaks for a giving executable and its calls. [16:15] Memory leaks should be eliminated (they are especially nasty on memory constrained devices). [16:15] Valgrind works for C/C++ code only? [16:15] Valgrind does a better job of producing helpful output when C debug symbols are present. [16:15] mfisch, yes, I think so. achiang? [16:15] good question, i don't know but will go find out [16:16] will circle back, continue on kyleN_ ! [16:16] By default debug symbols are not installed to conserve disk. Debug symbols are available in other -dbg pkgs. [16:16] So we are automating the task of getting all the debug pkgs for the executable and its dependencies. [16:16] Static analysis tools can help [16:16] They are unpacked into a directory, not installed as debian pkgs. [16:17] And they can be easily deleted after use. [16:17] We run valgrind and pass it that directory to also look in when resolving symbols. === nunosous1pinto is now known as NSP [16:18] The result is that there are far fewer unknown symbols in the valgrind log. [16:18] "Valgrind works with programs written in any language. Because Valgrind works directly with program binaries, it works with programs written in any programming language, be they compiled, just-in-time compiled, or interpreted." [16:18] (Unknown symbols look like this: "???") [16:18] ^ nice [16:18] This all means we can look at the stack traces and see where the memory leaks actually occured. [16:19] That is, which actual function call is probably responsible. [16:19] We can theoretically find an report only unique memory leaks (not previously reported). [16:19] :) I've just bought a Nexus 7 on an Auction site & I'm putting Ubuntu on there and I'm gonna resell it just to fill the void of demand .. What price should I set as reserve ? [16:20] And in this way, we can improve the Ubuntu stack for memory constrained devices and in general! [16:20] I think this will be a great way for the community to get involved (among many other ways!) [16:21] One more related topic: valgrind suppr files. These inform valgrind of false-positive memory leaks. That is, leaks that look like leaks but that are not leaks. [16:21] What about running something like Sonar across code? [16:21] feasty, pls hold on just a moment :) [16:21] These suppr files remove noise from the valgrind logs. [16:22] We will want to improve these suppr files, and maybe auto install them when running this valgrind driver stuff referred to above. [16:22] OK, that's the overview of our current thinking of improving tooling to find unique memory leaks. [16:23] one last point [16:23] achiang, blogged about vagrind, memory leaks, and related a couple days back. very useful blog. [16:23] achiang, do you have the URL? [16:23] I'll get it [16:23] http://www.chizang.net/alex/blog/2012/11/23/memory-leaks-in-ubuntu-episode-i-detection/ [16:24] http://www.chizang.net/alex/blog/2012/11/28/memory-leaks-in-ubuntu-episode-ii-analysis/ [16:24] achiang, thanks a lot for putting this together [16:24] there are a few more episodes to come === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [16:24] i will make a statement about episode I === gatox is now known as gatox_lunch [16:25] in there, i linked to a crappy script that i wrote to help track down debug symbols and remove the ??? that kyleN_ was talking about earlier [16:25] the good news is, kyleN_ is working on a much nicer tool to do all this for you [16:25] so feasty, would you like to say something about the approach and usefulness of sonar? [16:25] kyleN_: one sec [16:25] k [16:25] we are not ready to share this tool yet, but we can give a little preview [16:25] it consists of 2 parts [16:26] 1) an updated valgrind, that can look in any directory for debug symbols [16:26] (i wrote a patch for that and it is being discussed upstream now) [16:26] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310792 [16:26] KDE bug 310792 in general "[PATCH v2] search additional path for debug symbols" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [16:26] I was just saying that static analysis tools might help us track down memory leaks. I use a commercial one at work called Coverity but it utilises Sonar I believe as part of it's analysis. [16:27] 2) an updated apport, which is what kyleN_ is working on. we're writing an awesome wrapper script around valgrind [16:27] and in the end, you will be able to just say: [16:27] apport-valgrind [16:27] It supports a range of languages too [16:28] and the tool will grab all the debug symbols magically, unpack them somewhere so you don't pollute your system, profile your application, and produce a log [16:28] as you might imagine, this will be great once it's done [16:28] so we'll share that *hopefully* next week, but stay tuned... [16:28] alrighty, back to kyleN_ [16:28] ok [16:29] thanks feasty for noting that. [16:29] np [16:29] my overview is complete, so I am handing this back :) [16:30] athought perhaps one more point [16:30] we very much plan to empower the community to help out [16:30] agreed, ... [16:30] by 1) providing a simple method of finding (unique) memory leaks [16:31] 2) establishing some infrastructure for reporting them that is easy to use and allows developers to actually fix them [16:31] feasty: static analysis tools are good. however, we are trying to write some tools that people with a broad range of technical background can help out with. static analysis tools are really aimed at developers. [16:31] this will, as I mentioned, be great for memory constrained devices like Nexus 7. [16:32] what kyleN_ is talking about is a simple tool that non-developers can use, which will collect data that will still be useful for developers [16:32] but importantly, it will help improve the entire Ubuntu stack going forward, so this is impoartnat [16:32] with that, I am done :) [16:32] alrighty, that segues nicely into q&a [16:33] happy to answer any questions, either related to memory leaks specifically or nexus7 in general [16:33] :) I've just bought a Nexus 7 on an Auction site & I'm putting Ubuntu on there and I'm gonna resell it just to fill the void of demand .. What price should I set as reserve ? [16:33] floor is open [16:33] achiang Ah ok, sorry just through we were hunting leaks :). [16:33] bootidsa: i was making a joke earlier about that, i don't think that's an appropriate topic for us to cover here [16:33] oh OK. thanx. [16:33] What apart from the nux fix and the onboard update are still blockers for raring? Also: will we recommend to dist-upgrade or reflash? [16:34] re-flash [16:34] people *can* upgrade if they really want to [16:34] dist-upgrade (not update-manager, mentioned it to mvo already) "worked" for me earlier and folks wouldn't need to wait for updated images or an updated nexus7-installer [16:35] feasty: something like sonar might be interesting for upstream developers, but not the broader community. 2 different use cases. i agree sonar looks interesting but we're trying to cover the 2nd case here :) [16:35] but fir the sake of not having eyeryone running around with ubuntu/ubuntu credendials we should recommend a re-flash [16:35] ogra_, ah, makes sense :) [16:35] +1 to re-flash, we're getting that tooling all in place now [16:35] sweet [16:35] other than nux and onboard, i do not believe there are any blockers [16:36] that's good news [16:36] achiang, That's fair enough. I just missed that part :) [16:36] * ogra_ uses the raring daily all the time here [16:36] feasty: np :) [16:36] no blockers if you know how to click blindly ;) [16:36] ogra_ forgets that not everyone is a superman like him, so for us normal people, i recommend to just wait a few more days! :) [16:37] yeah, there'll be announcements :) [16:37] achiang, where will he announcement occcur? [16:37] or dholbach ? [16:37] haha, come on, firefox is the third icon from the top and ctrl-alt-t works from onboard to get a terminal :) [16:37] what else do you need :) [16:37] kyleN_, I'd say ubuntu-devel@, blogs and the @ubuntudev social media accounts at least [16:37] maybe rather ubuntu-devel-announce@ [16:37] yup, dholbach has a big megaphone and i'm sure will find a way to make everyone aware [16:37] and blogs, lots of them :) [16:38] I can't wait! [16:38] if people reading episode II on my blog find it hard to read or there are questions, i would love to clarify any confusing bits [16:38] so feedback is welcome [16:39] I'd be interested to hear who's interested in helping with testing or memleak-analysis or anything else? Can we have a show of hands? [16:39] \o/ [16:39] o/ [16:39] *\o/* [16:39] May I say that while detecting memory leaks may seem boring, it is actualy VERY important to the future [16:40] i think it's fun, i like doing detective work like this and yelling at my computer [16:40] I'd be ineterested in memory leak hunting/fixing [16:40] sweet [16:40] so if you plan on children be sure to help us ! [16:40] (or did i get that future thing wrong ?) [16:42] ogra: we will use harsh words about your children if you don't help us :) [16:42] haha [16:42] there you have it... we need to save the rain forests, save the glaciers, and find memory leaks! [16:42] Are there any particular packages we should concentrate on? [16:42] tehoretically everything thats preinstalled [16:42] feasty: i would say if there is an app you use every day or an app that's giving you problems... those are the 2 best places to start [16:43] Ok cool [16:43] however, i would *not* recommend trying to profile firefox or chrome / chromium [16:43] those programs are extremely complex, and the upstreams already actively profile [16:43] so the best place to help is the more neglected applications [16:43] not on arm linux usually though [16:44] i think hunting down memory leaks in firefox or chromium might take advanced skills, e.g., you can't just run valgrind on firefox in a simple manner [16:44] it is possible, but tricky [16:44] (chrome probably does for chromeos, not sure. but usually arm linux is a second class citizen upstream) [16:45] we done, dholbach? [16:45] any other questions for q&a? [16:45] What is the best PDF reader to use on this platform to skim through manuals .. for example ? [16:45] kyleN_, think so [16:45] i dont thik there is any touch friendly one in the archive atm [16:46] so the preinstalled (evince) will be as good as any [16:46] I've had soo many problems with evince .. I just subscribed to the mailing list in the end . [16:46] alrighty [16:47] (i might be wrong, probably evince even does touch already, havent tried it) [16:47] Q: Are there any plans to include an email client? (Some) research shows that checking email is the #1 use case for tablets. [16:47] (isn't there a pkg that converts touch events to mouse events for non-touch friendy apps?) [16:47] I think this is *key* to the platform , but what would I know ... I'm just a n00b. [16:48] Citation: http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/research.google.com/es//pubs/archive/38135.pdf [16:48] ogra_: the raring image will have thunderbird, right? [16:48] rrnwexec, once we have fixed some image size issues re-including thunderbird and openoffice shuld be possible [16:48] achiang, currently it doesnt [16:48] but i plan to brin it back once we switched to xz [16:48] *bring [16:48] rrnwexec: ok, so the answer is, "we intend to, but need to work out some engineering issues" [16:49] great. thank you. [16:49] Tb isnt particulary touch friendly either though [16:49] i bet with gmail and the grab n drag extension in firefoxx you are better off [16:49] perhaps webapps? [16:49] Interstingly, tablets are rarely used for "office productivity" apps. [16:49] a great 12.10 feature [16:50] ok, any more questions? [16:50] yes [16:50] Can the tablet use a stylus ? [16:51] bootidsa: yes, a stylus can be used. i watched someone in Copenhagen use a stylus on the nexus7 [16:51] yes, but the capacitive sytluses you can buy arent usually smaller than your pinky [16:51] I'm using a stylus. I find it much more usable. [16:51] I'd like to ask something more general (hopefully it hasn't been covered already): Have I understood it right, that ubuntu on N7 is just a "proof of concept" and you MAY broaden support to other devices? [16:51] it's smaller than my pinky too ;) [16:51] i'll take that one [16:51] fat pinky he ? [16:51] :) [16:51] Ubuntu on the N7 is intended to serve as a reference / developer platform [16:52] we want to get a cheap, easy-to-use ARM device into the hands of more people [16:52] older solutions like panda boards were still not super user friendly [16:52] has anyone updated the 'road-map' on launchpad ? [16:52] it could happen that we switch to another platform at some point ... i wouldnt actually call that broadening though [16:52] mhm [16:52] the goal is for everyone to use the same hardware [16:53] to make fixing bugs easier [16:53] fixing bugs is a LOT easier when you do not have to ask in launchpad: what hardware do you have? i can't reproduce it here [16:53] it is very likely that we move on with that concept in later releases, for now the nexus7 is the focus though [16:53] +1 for uniform hardware [16:53] i understand that. [16:53] if everyone has the same hardware, then that removes one more piece of friction between testers and developers [16:53] fine! [16:54] the point is though ... [16:54] since we have standardized on the N7, it's unlikely that we'll move to a new platform any time soon [16:54] the nexus brings us support for android devices in a certain setup in general [16:54] it was hard enough to get to here in the first place :) [16:54] which means if someone wants to roll images for a device thats similar structured it shouldnt be hard to produce one [16:55] i.e. if you feel like maintaining a nexus10 kernel and roll images as part of the community, you are invited to learn how and do so ;) [16:55] ya, but as you publish all your progress (?) other (interested and skillfull) people might port your builds to different devices/hardware and work on that in parallel [16:55] we surely wont block people that do the "breoadening" work [16:56] right [16:56] Sorry, On launchpad, by 'road-map' I meant 'milestones' .. update-able ?? [16:56] yes, if you want to build on the progress, i suggest hanging out in #ubuntu-arm and asking questions. it's a friendly place :) [16:56] * ogra_ regulary tries to update his tasks [16:56] you should be able to just use the normal upgrade functionality within Ubuntu once we're on raring [16:57] bootidsa: i don't believe we use milestones in launchpad for this project [16:57] hehe right, but currently i just own an Asus EEE Pad Transformer Prime TF201, so that will probably exclude me from testing mostly, as i don't have the skills to port the builds myself ;) [16:57] ok, we have 3 minutes left [16:57] achiang, Wny not , how do I know where we are going/up to ? [16:57] any other questions? [16:57] and as poor student, a nexus 7 or 10 won't be incoming soon :) thanks for the answer! [16:58] bootidsa, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/ have a look there [16:58] bootidsa, and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7 is an additional TODO list, if that helps [16:58] ( i dont thik there is a particular nexus76 centric filter though) [16:58] -6 [16:59] ok, i think it's time to wrap up [16:59] thanks a lot everyone! this was great [16:59] thanks to kyleN__ for the valgrind discussion [16:59] yw [16:59] hopefully next week we'll have even more goodies for everyone [16:59] ++ [16:59] thanks all [16:59] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:59] Meeting ended Fri Nov 30 16:59:46 2012 UTC. [16:59] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-30-16.00.moin.txt [16:59] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-30-16.00.html [16:59] thanks achiang and team for everything so far. [17:00] (we can continue in #ubuntu-arm) [17:00] emphasis on team. i'm just the paper pusher. :) [17:00] yeah [17:00] thank-you everyone .. I get a nexus 7 with Ubuntu on ebay (WWide Make offer) next week .. dio a saved search and you'll get an email of it. [17:01] **I'll [17:28] Checking in for Ubuntu TVV meeting in half an hour ... Hi guys o/ [17:28] what up bootidsa [17:30] hiya - looks like a full house. It's Tim S Joseph [17:31] Hey CrestedNewt nice to see that you are going to make it thansk [17:31] thanks * [17:32] Wow ... looks exciting .. just finished my dinner (I'm in Iom ) .. joined Ubuntu Tv start of year. [17:33] Well I guess we can have a little banter before the meeting ? [17:33] sure === gatox_lunch is now known as gatox [17:34] OK .. So my main gripe is that I dont have Ubuntu TV stuck to my wall .. where can I get one ? [17:34] bootidsa, lol you have to make one :) [17:35] .. OK .. is there a blog for that ? [17:35] lol - Joseph is working on it!! I can build you the hardware if you want [17:36] bootidsa, depends on what you would like to use . like unity 2d (old mock up code) or the Unity 3d one (not finshed and you will hear more about that soon ) [17:36] CrestedNewt, I'd like to know that (in terms how much you need ) . [17:36] Unity 2d is fine for me. [17:37] bootidsa, we can talk about that if you like butI must warn you that it was MOCK UP code [17:38] bootidsa As far as I am aware, if it has a processor, graphics card and tuner, it will work [17:38] as far as hardware it will run on anything thtat will run unity 2d [17:38] and CrestedNewt is correct tuner card is what gets you live tv and dvr [17:39] CrestedNewt, It would be nice for me to-do a list on Am$zon of what is required to get a compltered Flat screen from parts :) [17:39] **completed. [17:39] bobweaver - quick question... is there the possibility of dual input, eg tuner and satellite inputs on same epg? [17:40] bootidsa, how I have mine (2d) is it is computer hooked up to tv (main backend) then I have other small box's that are on other tv that listen to loacl network [17:41] oh sio its not actually in the flat screen itself .. its an add-on box , right ? [17:41] CrestedNewt, yes there is depends on the capture card I have 2 inputs on mine also captures vcr dvd player ect but I only use for tv atm [17:41] bootidsa, coorect it is just a different "form-factor " of unity [17:41] bobweaver - thx [17:42] bootidsa, but one could v.easy make for flat screen [17:42] say if it can load usb or if it can load from sd [17:42] or if you have Ubuntu phone [17:43] bobweaver, It's interesting , but terms of the remote-jockeys I thought it ran inside the TV on arm .. why not that (sorry if I'm going off abit) ? [17:43] bootidsa - 2 options as I see it... 1. Built into screen by manufacturer so warrant is intact [17:43] bootidsa, I have installed to arm boards and works fine also [17:43] bootidsa - 2. separate box [17:43] right so it is possible then. thanx. [17:44] bootidsa, takes a minute and a half to compile though [17:44] Someone please save me. I am stuck on imgur :/ [17:44] ok IdleOne [17:44] What are the minimum spec's for the platorm to be used internaly on say, Arm TV-wise ? [17:44] 1 gig ram and 1.0 ghz [17:45] 9 gigs harddrive [17:45] unity 2d ^^ [17:45] 3d is whole new story [17:45] IdleOne, Try this one http://ompldr.org/about.html [17:46] IdleOne, extension dont work though ! [17:46] Imagebin also works well [17:46] for temp stuff that is [17:47] bootidsa, we had a pi hack day at local hackerspace and where able to get it to run on pi but and this is a big but it was super super slow and froze all the time. [17:47] at the last meeting, tgm4883 was saying that the future is 3D, not 2D, and that is where the effort should be directed [17:48] bobweaver, Looks like atom would serve this bettr .. http://goo.gl/ofaUv [17:48] bootidsa, pandaboard ? [17:49] bobweaver, no frame of reference to pandaboard. [17:49] bootidsa, not enough ram on that board [17:49] bootidsa, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PandaBoard [17:50] also http://www.pandaboard.org/ [17:50] I got 3d to run on that [17:50] friends board [17:51] bobweaver, Yeah , figures .. that's what I'm saying .. everything is so micro these days .. that's why I presumed it could be done 'inside' the Flat screen TV itself. [17:52] yeah Would be cool to have a case but the thing about all that is capture card must be usb and are not as fast as pci ones [17:52] making lag on TV happen for other fronends [17:53] bootisda - I have been talking with someone about this and the problem is a matter of warranty... [17:53] bootidsa only if the card and OS were supported by the manufacturer could it be INSIDE the TV [17:54] right .. Are we at trhe stage where we can do S/PDIF Optical Digital Audio ?? [17:54] CrestedNewt, that is a good point warranty gpl says no to that right ? [17:55] bobweaver - it is the manufacturers warranty. eg I have a 5 year warranty on my plasma - if I change the internals I invalidate the warranty [17:55] I dont thin we need to talk about warranty .. In the finalanalysis ..I just want one of these, hacked or whatever. [17:55] **think [17:56] bobweaver, could be ethernet [17:57] tgm4883 - yes [17:57] hi popey, o/ [17:57] one of the most popular tuners out there is ethernet (in the US anyway) [17:57] hi [17:57] Oo [17:58]