[00:02] <daftykins> arossDOTme: mucked it up in what way?
[00:02] <arossDOTme> not connecting
[00:03] <daftykins> on wired LAN? when it did before?
[00:03] <AlanBell> does it work in a guest session?
[00:03] <daftykins> or a new user
[00:03] <arossDOTme> note I am also getting help on the same problem on #ubuntu
[00:04] <arossDOTme> eifi
[00:04] <arossDOTme> wifi
[00:04] <arossDOTme> hmm
[00:04] <daftykins> i'd imagine you just have to backup the network config in the user's /home
[00:11] <arossDOTme> nope i realy need to reset the hole networking lot. its mucked up system level
[00:24] <arossDOTme> in the network manager guis no interfaces are listed
[00:25] <daftykins> and what about "sudo ifconfig -a" in a terminal?
[00:29] <arossDOTme> eth0 and lo are listed and with usb wifi pluged in wlan1 is listed as Ethernet
[00:30] <daftykins> the interface is there then
[00:40] <arossDOTme> ok. umm the gui network man is greyed out. DE=gnome (shell)
[00:40] <penguin42> arossDOTme: What about the output of    sudo nmcli device
[00:40] <arossDOTme> hate to be so cryptic
[00:43] <arossDOTme> error net man not running "nmcli dev"
[00:44] <penguin42> oh hmm
[00:44] <penguin42> that'll be your problem then; no network manager
[00:45] <penguin42> arossDOTme: Try   sudo start network-manager
[00:49] <arossDOTme> arr thats done it. just test wifi and reboot it
[00:49] <arossDOTme> thanks muchly
[00:49] <penguin42> whether it comes back after a reboot ....
[01:11] <arossDOTme> nope its not running on reboot
[01:13] <penguin42> ok, so hmm it's either not starting because it's blocked on something (but then why would it start when you asked it?) or it's just turned off
[01:13] <penguin42> arossDOTme: What does    sudo initctl list |grep network-manager   say
[01:18] <arossDOTme> network-interface-scrity/interface and networking stop/waiting
[01:21] <arossDOTme> after that then start/running
[01:22] <arossDOTme> btw on boot in the splash screen it did say waiting for networking blar blar
[01:24] <penguin42> yeh not too sure how to debug that; the sudo start network-manager at least gets you going
[01:24] <arossDOTme> hmm reinstall some package?
[01:24] <arossDOTme> del some mroe configs in /etc?
[01:25] <penguin42> always a bit dangerous without knowing what to delete
[01:25] <penguin42> you could try reinstalling network-manager
[01:26] <arossDOTme> done that allready
[01:27] <penguin42> not too sure what to suggest; all this stuff gets autostarted by 'upstart' and I've never quite figured out how to debug it
[01:27] <arossDOTme> ok
[01:28] <penguin42> I assume you do have an /etc/init/network-manager.conf - actually I think you must have otherwise I don't think it would work with   start
[01:29] <penguin42> arossDOTme: That says it starts only after local-filesystems have completed, dbus has started and static-networking has completed - so if he's fiddled with either of the 3 then that might be where to start
[01:31] <arossDOTme> hmm
[01:34] <penguin42> right, bedtime - good luck
[01:39] <arossDOTme> thanks
[01:52] <Azelphur> https://twitter.com/Azelphur/status/274999385136451584
[01:52] <Azelphur> threes twitter support is useful :D
[01:53] <Azelphur> also my brother is grumpy
[01:54] <arossDOTme> Azelphur: twitter & fb = middle man attack.
[01:54]  * Azelphur shrugs
[01:54] <arossDOTme> would you like link to darn good talk?
[01:55] <Azelphur> ?
[01:55] <arossDOTme> a dam good talk explaining the words "middel man attak".
[01:56] <Azelphur> I know what a MITM attack is.
[01:56] <arossDOTme> sorry. not what I meant
[01:58] <arossDOTme> heck I will never do a as good job as the talk at explaining. I am trash comped to the talk(s). coming up links...
[02:06] <arossDOTme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoRbP3yFw_k
[02:08] <arossDOTme> again the devil youtube Eben Moglen_ Why Freedom of Thought Requires Free Media and Why Free Media Require Free Technology
[02:08] <arossDOTme> thats the best one
[02:09] <arossDOTme> first one is also good
[02:10] <arossDOTme> youtube-dl -f 45 www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKOk4Y4inVY
[03:12] <pndemc> Is there a way to wget an entire directory and all of its contents?
[05:27] <MartijnVdS> pndemc: only if there are links to all contents :)
[05:27] <MartijnVdS> pndemc: wget --mirror --no-parent http://foo.bar
[05:28] <pndemc> MartijnVdS, thanks I ended up figuring it out, wget -r  http://foo.bar
[05:28] <MartijnVdS> pndemc: -r is just "Recursively", it'll download anything from that site it can find links to
[05:28] <pndemc> that did the job, but it took me forever to figure out you need a double space after the argument..
[05:28] <MartijnVdS> you do?!
[05:28] <pndemc> yup
[05:28] <pndemc> won't work without it
[05:28] <MartijnVdS> strange, it always worked without that here
[05:31] <MartijnVdS> pndemc: anyway, check the manual for what --mirror and --no-parent do
[05:31] <pndemc> MartijnVdS, testing it now actually ;)
[05:31] <pndemc> I tried it earlier without the double space to no success
[05:31] <pndemc> works with the double though
[05:32] <MartijnVdS> what was the error?
[05:32] <MartijnVdS> +message
[05:32] <pndemc> sec, I'll get you a pastebin
[05:33] <pndemc> MartijnVdS, btw, --mirror did a much better job
[05:33] <pndemc> -r grabbed more than I wanted
[05:34] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[05:34] <MartijnVdS> --mirror == -r -N -l inf --no-remove-listing
[05:36] <pndemc> MartijnVdS, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1409607/
[05:37] <pndemc> MartijnVdS, notice theres no space after "No such file or directory"
[05:37] <MartijnVdS> pndemc: Does the current directory (still) exist? Is the filesystem FAT?
[05:37] <MartijnVdS> weird!
[05:37] <MartijnVdS> -r shouldn't take arguments
[05:37] <pndemc> yes everything was there, the only thing I did differently to get it to work was double space...
[05:38] <MartijnVdS> a double space shouldn't matter.. the shell splits it to the same *argv[] for wget
[05:38] <MartijnVdS> unless you've aliased "wget -r" :)
[05:38] <pndemc> then we found a bug >_<
[05:38] <pndemc> nope, this is a clean ubuntu install
[05:39]  * MartijnVdS off to work
[08:14] <diplo> Morning all
[08:21] <jacobw2> morning diplo :)
[08:29] <diplo> Quiet one today
[08:30] <theopensourcerer> !"£$%^&*()_+
[08:30] <theopensourcerer> :-)
[08:30] <theopensourcerer> Morning
[08:30] <diplo> Morning theopensourcerer :)
[08:44] <popey> morning
[08:46] <jacobw2> mornig
[08:56] <bokjhv> !#twil@17:25UTC
[08:56] <bootidsa> IAMaBOT &Im happy to oblige @17:25-yesterday on t' #twil channel, and it reads: 17:25 [bokhjv] A shout goes out to jkeyes0 at this time  :: Hey, hang-in there, mate.
[08:57] <bokjhv> Much obliged Mister .. you can see the last entry on the w3.twil.tv channel .. http://www.youtube.com/user/twildottv  Jordan you have my sympathies about the sad news.
[09:11] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/200489-coolermaster-gx-550w-psu-rs-550-acaae3-uk
[09:12] <popey> how can i tell if that has the necessary connector for a pci express video card?
[09:17]  * bokjhv is away: /me requires JuanValdez. BRBack...
[09:23] <DJones> popey: Does this line answer what you were looking for "Designed for dual GPU systems All of the power supplies in the Cooler Master GX range have been specifically designed for dual GPU systems and the 750W model also carries SLI certification for high-end Nvidia GTX graphics cards, as it offers four PCI Express power connectors. "
[09:23] <popey> ahh
[09:24] <popey> yeah
[09:24] <DJones> I wasn't sure if I'd misunderstood what you were asking
[09:25] <popey> going to move the nvidia card from my old core2duo desktop to my i7 desktop
[09:25] <popey> but the psu in the i7 isn't up to it, so going to bump that
[09:29] <popey> also, colour laser printers on ubuntu..
[09:34]  * DJones debates getting a new office desktop
[09:34] <theopensourcerer> Xerox work nicely for us.
[09:35] <theopensourcerer> popey: ^^-^^
[09:35] <popey> hmm
[09:35] <theopensourcerer> I have a 6130n at home. Networked and fairly cheap toner cartridges
[09:36] <popey> seems a discontinued model
[09:36] <diplo> popey: We also have Xerox's now at work
[09:37]  * theopensourcerer says so do we
[09:37] <diplo> These new fangled ones with power cartridge type things ( in our nottingham office )
[09:37] <diplo> I don't get to use them, my place is so tight that I brought my own printer in from home :)
[09:42] <popey> i just want something compact and cheap which doesn't cost the earth to refill
[09:43] <SuperMatt> good luck with that!
[09:43] <theopensourcerer> I got a good deal on the Xerox - it came with a 2nd set of toner cartridges which I have not yet finished using.
[09:44] <theopensourcerer> In the past we have found it cheaper to buy a new laser printer than replacement cartridges.
[09:44] <popey> yeah
[09:44] <popey> Samsung CLX 3305 Multifunction Printer
[09:44] <theopensourcerer> Which just seems *wrong*
[09:44] <popey> thats the one I am currently looking at
[09:44] <popey> copier is handy
[09:45] <diplo> I quite like the Samsung printers, not used one with linux yet though so can't comment
[09:45] <diplo> I print probably a dozen times a year at the most
[09:45] <einonm> theopensourcerer: Reminds me of this infographic http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2012/09/19/printer-ink-what-it-really-costs-infographic/
[09:45] <theopensourcerer> Not used one.
[09:45] <einonm> quite shocking
[09:45] <popey> £190 for the printer, ~£160 for toner!
[09:46] <diplo> This for home or work popey  ?
[09:46] <popey> home
[09:46] <Al-phaX> popey, Kodak has the the lowest total ink replacement cost in the industry.
[09:46] <popey> who?
[09:46] <theopensourcerer> lol
[09:48] <Al-phaX> Scanning for Kodak completed ::: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Printers-/1245/i.html?Brand=Kodak&_dmpt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printers_Printers_JN&_sop=1
[09:48] <popey> none of those are laser printers
[09:49]  * Al-phaX wonders how someone can searc through 300+ of them in less than 24 seconds ?
[09:52] <hoover> Hi folks
[09:52] <Myrtti> ive got samsung mfps b/w lasers
[09:53] <Myrtti> scx 4200 and 4500w
[09:53] <popey> Al-phaX, well from my research it doesn't seem kodak make them, making it somewhat redundant searching through all 300 of them
[09:54] <Myrtti> scanner used to be a pita to get working
[09:55] <Myrtti> the wifi scanning obviously still is
[09:56] <Myrtti> but as long as youve got the right ppd they work fine
[09:56] <popey> this will mostly be used on osx I expect
[09:56] <popey> the odd job from ubuntu now and then
[09:56] <Myrtti> then you'll be fine with Samsung
[09:56] <popey> will have to run this past wifey as I'm planning on putting this in the kitchen
[09:57] <popey> which obviously needs wifey approval
[09:57] <Myrtti> why kitchen
[09:57] <SuperMatt> I've got a samsung clx and the initial batch of toner lastest a looong time
[09:57] <SuperMatt> then my and the gf tried printing photos and we said goodbye to all of our money
[09:58] <Myrtti> grease in the air gets stuck inside the printer...
[09:58] <Myrtti> ew.
[09:59] <popey> well, the other side of the kitchen
[09:59] <popey> nowhere near the cooking stuff
[09:59] <popey> the imac is in the kitchen on the desk as the 'family computer'
[09:59] <popey> wanted to put the printer next to it
[09:59] <popey> probably temporarily only, until the office gets remodelled
[10:00] <Myrtti> I ♥  our SCX-4500W
[10:01] <Myrtti> too bad they dont make them as good looking anymore
[10:01] <Myrtti> it looks like the Monolith from 2001 space odyssey
[10:03] <popey> heh
[10:03] <popey> http://www.trustedreviews.com/sony-kd-84x9005_TV_review
[10:03] <popey> gosh
[10:03] <Al-phaX> popey, sounds like you need a HERO http://goo.gl/Dgl70 Which at at 1/5th of it's £170 original price :: the end of the search for the printer is over http://goo.gl/pDMXC . and don't just say your better off with '95 tech !
[10:03] <popey> that hero does look nice
[10:03] <Al-phaX> http://open.spotify.com/track/3S0cAAu05KzOTa0C6X05FO
[10:04] <popey> tempting :)
[10:05] <popey> will run it past wifey, thanks Al-phaX
[10:12] <dwatkins> I have a Canon printer and considered getting an all-in-one networked printer/scanner, but opted for a £20 print server instead, and am quite happy with it.
[10:14] <mungojerry> anyone know of a zimbra hosting provider?
[10:15] <Al-phaX> mungojerry, duckduckgo is your friend     , however;
[10:15] <mungojerry> kind of hoping for personal recommendations
[10:16] <Al-phaX> I did however notice a small error in the Ubuntu-Weekly-Newsletter https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue294 ...where it links to the XPS13 (enterprise edition, no less !!), but I couldn't find the aforementioned Ubuntu option available http://goo.gl/YFvcQ
[10:18] <Al-phaX> Any thought/s as to where I can find it ?
[10:25] <Al-phaX>                                ... no response  & that's where the itch lies.
[10:25] <daubers> Al-phaX: The Ubuntu XPS13 is only available in the states
[10:25] <daubers> It's a Dell decision
[10:26] <Al-phaX> I see .. it's a dotCOM thingy, right ?
[10:26] <daubers> Np idea :) They prolly do geolocation
[10:28] <Al-phaX> No, you misunderstand .. when a dell.com ref. is mentioned .. it only refers to the .com residents  :: i.e. Your in America *or* ...the rest of the world can sod off !!
[10:29] <popey> the URLs on dells website have leaped around all over the place
[10:29] <popey> I've seen a few for the xps13 which don't work
[10:29] <popey> very frustrating
[10:30]  * Al-phaX bought a Dell Vostro, but seems to recall the company vendor was an infamous Auction site instead.
[10:38] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:38] <dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
[10:39] <brobostigon> hiya dwatkins
[10:39] <Knightwise> hey guys
[10:40] <brobostigon> hey Knightwise
[10:40] <Knightwise> how is everyone today
[10:40] <brobostigon> Knightwise: moody, and you?
[10:41] <Knightwise> cranky :à) waiting for coworkers to get their act in gear
[10:41] <brobostigon> :(
[10:41] <dwatkins> I'm waiting for this annoying cold to go away.
[10:42] <brobostigon> :(
[10:45] <dwatkins> haha, Google Reader knows what's in my Amazon wishlist, if the adverts are to be believed.
[10:50] <popey> i searched for something on ebay, it showed up in my recommended items on amazon :S
[10:52] <bootidsa> dwatkins, I've got an Amazon wishlist that is fairly faddish & the adverts that I get are closer to what is written on the wall in the town latrine !
[11:09] <solarcloud> popey, I was looking at this laptop .. http://www.cnet.com/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-edge-twist/4505-3121_7-35477956.html?tag=nl.e404&s_cid=e404  My question is simple .. Is This Ubuntu Friendly At First Glance ??
[11:11] <popey> to some degree
[11:11] <popey> the screen wont rotate automatically
[11:11] <popey> and the touch screen may not work
[11:13] <solarcloud> A stuck screen and you cant touch it .. sounds like my old projector :)
[11:14] <popey> i have a toshiba which has that kind of twisty screen, from 3 years ago
[11:17] <solarcloud> I had a T91 (not sure the manufacturer) netbook with a twisty screen .. it was 1.3GHz Atom .. I was hoping to update my long-haul flight laptop now the T91 is broke.
[11:19] <solarcloud> What operating system, other than Win7, *would* work with such an advanced device, these days ?
[11:19] <popey> define "work"
[11:19] <popey> ubuntu would work on that lenovo thing
[11:20] <popey> and it wouldn't be hard to write a script to rotate the screen on demand
[11:20] <Daviey> I setup my X61 to rotate the screen when your twiddled the screen around
[11:20] <Daviey> landscape, upside down, etc
[11:20] <solarcloud> it's the fact that it can transform into touchscreen tablet that is needed (to work).
[11:22] <popey> someone would need to test the touch screen
[11:22]  * solarcloud thinks he may be requesting to 'moon on a stick'.
[11:22] <popey> some "just work" like the one in my toshiba
[11:22] <popey> no, not really
[11:22] <solarcloud> Am I asking too much ?
[11:22] <brobostigon> woop, i have my minetest server working again, based on yesterdays source. :)
[11:22] <popey> but you're asking people who have never seen that device before about 10 minutes ago
[11:23] <solarcloud> popey, how long have you had your Toshiba ?
[11:25] <diplo> solarcloud: Buy it and raise some bugs :)
[11:27] <theopensourcerer> popey: What was the ddns provider you said you were using?
[11:28] <Knightwise> i am using no-ip.org
[11:28] <Knightwise> not bad
[11:28] <Knightwise> got a client running on my mk802.2
[11:34] <popey> theopensourcerer, afraid.org
[11:35] <popey> solarcloud, 3 years i think, never use it now
[11:35] <theopensourcerer> ty popey
[11:35] <theopensourcerer> ty Knightwise
[11:39] <bootidsa> popey Yes, you told me .. AFAs being afraid.org  .. looking at my search engine :: www.hopeful.ly is already taken !
[11:41] <theopensourcerer> Wow. 2.5million signatures and counting: http://www.freeandopenweb.com/#loc=3/8.0000/22.0000
[11:45] <diplo> Quite fun watching it go up
[11:45] <diplo> I seemed to have missed it totally!
[12:06] <mungojerry> my dell wireless has good intel wireless g support, but just moved to a n router and the n driver crashes a lot on ubuntu :(
[12:06] <mungojerry> it's a 4-5 yr old machine so not much hope there
[12:17] <directhex> mungojerry, basically, intel wireless is totally broken on wireless n. your best bet is to disable n support
[12:17] <mungojerry> sad face
[12:17] <mungojerry> aren't they open drivers?
[12:17] <mungojerry> nobody tried to fix?
[12:17] <directhex> the bug's been open for more than a year
[12:17] <directhex> might be a firmware problem
[12:17] <directhex> who knows. intel don't seem to care
[12:18] <directhex> use non-n, or non-intel
[12:18] <mungojerry> which card you have?
[12:18] <directhex> fwiw, the issue is AP-dependent.
[12:18] <mungojerry> oh
[12:18] <directhex> i.e. n might be fine with some wirless access points, and fail in seconds on others
[12:18] <mungojerry> i have a talktalk wifi (huawei)
[12:18] <mungojerry> fails in 30 mins on mine
[12:18] <directhex> bt homehub is also made by huawei, and mine fails a lot
[12:18] <directhex> 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Advanced-N 6205 [Taylor Peak] (rev 34)
[12:19] <mungojerry> there's a known bug on some wifi APs that fails when powersaving is enabled on that card i think
[12:19] <mungojerry> i had to disable it on powertop until the university upgraded all their APs
[12:19] <mungojerry> with new fw
[12:24] <popey> which chips are affected?
[12:24] <popey> 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 1000
[12:24] <popey> that one?
[13:20] <mungojerry> i think i have the 6230 centrino N which was affecte
[13:20] <mungojerry> the intel problem on my dell which is breaking wireless-n is on my D630 latitude
[13:20] <mungojerry> intel 4965agn
[14:14] <theopensourcerer> Anyone else use firefox in the main? Ever since v17 I keep getting the grey screen of death from it. Frequently and rather lengthy. Don't think it was like this on v16
[14:14] <penguin42> theopensourcerer: I use firefox as my main, not seen that
[14:15] <theopensourcerer> Seeing on two machines.
[14:15] <theopensourcerer> Both 12.04
[14:15] <penguin42> hmm I don't have a main 12.04 machine
[14:19] <popey> theopensourcerer, grey screen of death?
[14:19] <theopensourcerer> chrisccoulson: You dropped off the net - Anyone else use firefox in the main? Ever since v17 I keep getting the grey screen of death from it. Frequently and rather lengthy. Don't think it was like this on v16
[14:19] <popey> the compiz thing where the window greys out when it's busy?
[14:19] <theopensourcerer> Yeah
[14:19] <theopensourcerer> that
[14:19] <popey> yeah, i used to get that a fair amount
[14:19] <popey> was usually when the machine was under lots of io load
[14:19] <theopensourcerer> I'm getting it *loads* more since the 17 update
[14:20]  * popey opens ff for the first time since getting 17
[14:22] <penguin42> popey: I gave up on Chrome partially because it was getting unreliable for me since 12.10
[14:23] <popey> i dont use chrome really
[14:23] <popey> i use chromium mostly now
[14:23] <penguin42> popey: That's what I meant but didn't bother to type
[14:23] <popey> :)
[14:23] <penguin42> and we have proof that you use chromium....
[14:57] <theopensourcerer>  3212 alord     20   0 2470m 1.5g  10m R   99 41.0  79:21.33 firefox  << gah. again.
[14:58]  * theopensourcerer kills firefox and boots into Chrome for a change.
[14:58] <penguin42> theopensourcerer: Are you using ff to view very large images?
[14:58] <theopensourcerer> no.
[14:59] <theopensourcerer> I have about 15 tabs open
[14:59] <theopensourcerer> Not that many in my experience
[14:59] <theopensourcerer> I usually have a lot more.
[15:01] <penguin42> not sure if ff has anything like chrome's task manager where it shows you what's using lots
[15:03] <popey> thats why i switched away from firefox, no way of knowing what it's using
[15:04] <SuperMatt> I prefer using firefox over chrom(e|ium), but for the life of me, I couldn't tell you why
[15:04] <SuperMatt> it just feels nicer
[15:06] <diplo> I use chromium/chrome for browsing and FF for web dev mainly
[15:06]  * penguin42 must try and debug the chromium+synergy that really annoys me - if I paste from synergy into chromium text boxes it reliably hangs
[15:29] <shauno> Wildly off-topic, Do we have any teachers in here?  on, in the spirit of !ask, does anyone know if L. Ron Hubbard's teaching methods (under the flag of 'Applied Scholastics') have any acceptance outside of the obvious circles?
[15:30] <bashrc> Isn't that the scientology guy?
[15:30] <shauno> it is indeed
[15:31] <bashrc> I'd avoid anything cultish - especially when applied to children whi may be impressionable
[15:31] <shauno> a friend's just taken a job at a private school that uses these materials & methods, and I'm trying to figure out how best to formulate a reply that isn't just "run"
[15:32] <bashrc> In general the trendy new-age type stuff tends to consist mainly of fraud, with no evidential basis
[15:33] <penguin42> shauno: Hmm, given that cults are about getting gullible people to believe and follow people for no good reason, perhaps the methods are perfect way to teach kids things they don't want to learn....
[15:33] <bashrc> It's probably not a great idea to send your kids to a school which uses methods created by someone who founded a UFO cult
[15:34] <shauno> penguin42: that had crossed my mind
[15:35] <shauno> just curious because we tend to have a surprising range of minds in here, and telling someone to walk away from a job offer is heavy enough that I want to make sure I'm seeing past my own biases
[15:35] <dwatkins> some say that LRH was crazy, which doesn't help the case for his teachings.
[15:35] <penguin42> dwatkins: But there again so are most teachers
[15:36] <dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, but that's a good kind of crazy ;)
[15:36] <penguin42> dwatkins: Not necessarily in my experience
[15:36] <bashrc> The sensible thing to do would be to direct the person towards info about Hubbard, and then say something like "is this the kind of guy you want teaching your kids"?
[15:36] <dwatkins> penguin42: ah ok
[15:37]  * dwatkins agrees with bashrc 
[15:37] <dwatkins> There's a whole lot of information on the xenu and clam forums, mostly anectodal obviously but it's quite scary reading people's testimonies.
[15:37] <shauno> bashrc: that's pretty much the tact I've taken so far
[15:37] <dwatkins> The best account I've seen of the actual practices in the 'church' was that of Jason Bughe, a Canadian actor who got out.
[15:38] <dwatkins> best as in detailled etc.
[15:38] <bashrc> The bottom line is that cults can really ruin people's lives.  Experimenting with your kids in that was is a high risk strategy.
[15:41] <penguin42> shauno: point him at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_Scholastics
[15:41] <shauno> it's just a helluva bombshell because this school had sounded ideal right until she was introduced to their teaching materials
[15:43] <bashrc> With these things the wacky stuff always comes at the end
[15:43] <bashrc> There's a long buildup containing things you can mostly agree with
[15:52] <directhex> scientology's methods can and have lead to death
[15:52] <directhex> they're based on basic medieval psychology - deprivation, isolation, etc
[15:52] <bashrc> We live in troubled times in which many prior beliefs are being brought into question.  But try to keep your wits about you, and not fall prey to charlatans or cultists
[15:53] <directhex> http://exscientologykids.com/schools.html
[15:53] <directhex> greenfields?
[15:53] <shauno> yeah, that one has already been mentioned
[15:54] <shauno> "when i mentioned id like to go abroad some time and to england and they said theres a school in england thats within the group"
[15:54] <directhex> yeah, this is 101% part of what's been marked by the uk judiciary as a dangerous cult
[15:55] <directhex> see also http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/childabuse/schools.html
[15:55] <shauno> I'm pretty much on the same track, I've just been trying to rule out that any of his materials have actually gained sane acceptance anywhere
[15:56] <directhex> they've gained lots of acceptance. elsewhere within the church of scientology.
[15:56] <directhex> but they're completely fabricated, they're not based on any vaid child psychology
[15:57] <directhex> and remember that psychiatrists are the enemy in scientology teachings, so any valid research into their methods would be seen as equivalent to sunday school being checked over by satanists
[15:58] <bashrc> The cultists will promise a good life, solidarity, and easy answers to complex problems
[15:59] <shauno> I had absolutely no idea they operated schools until this name came up in conversation
[16:01] <directhex> i'm amazed your friend got a job there tbh, normally they don't permit non-scientologists on staff, and none of the "teachers" are usually actually qualified to teach
[16:01] <directhex> they'll likely try to convert her, so you won't see her again
[16:02] <bashrc> The classic method is that if you make enquiries they will point you towards books which superficially appear to be rigorous and objective, but which in one way or another have all been published by fellow cult members
[16:03] <shauno> directhex:
[16:04] <shauno> ugh
[16:04] <shauno> yeah, that's the kicker.  she is actually qualified
[16:04] <directhex> that "school" is not involved in education, it's involved in indoctination
[16:05] <shauno> teaching english has been her goal for a long time, and this is the first place to offer her a position.  which is why I'm trying to make sure I'm not just jumping at the name alone before I say anything
[16:05] <directhex> seriously, you may never see her again if the gets the job. they will convert her, and speaking to "suppressive persons" (i.e. people against scientology) is a serious crime.
[16:06] <bashrc> also if she has good qualifications they they will use that to bolster the reputation of the cult
[16:31] <mungojerry> looks like i've entered the wrong channel
[16:33] <penguin42> mungojerry: Try the next one down on the left
[16:47] <BigRedS> I'm after a self-hosted pretty, functional bug tracker that'll deal with bugs for somewhere between 10 and 30 small projects for about 15 people. Web UI crucial, email nags handy. Any suggestions?
[16:47] <BigRedS> Bugzilla's in as a proof of concept now, but it seems really clunky and convoluted. Really, we want the bugtracker from launchpad...
[16:48] <directhex> redmine
[16:49] <diplo> I was about to suggest that as well, going to test it myself next week.
[16:51] <BigRedS> ew. admining redmine for our customers is my current least-favourite activity. Is it that good from a user's perspective?
[16:52] <mungojerry> BigRedS, i don't touch redmine any more
[16:52] <mungojerry> seems to run itself
[16:52] <mungojerry> didn't they opensource launchpad?
[16:52] <BigRedS> ah yeah, I've just had a spate of upgrades recently, and none have come close to smooth
[16:52] <BigRedS> yeah, but it looks _huge_
[16:52] <mungojerry> also , there's one called RT
[16:53] <BigRedS> Request Tracker? Yeah, I've seen that one. All of thse I've only really seen from an admin perspective, though
[16:53] <mungojerry> rt is better for email based support
[16:53] <mungojerry> the ui was minging when i saw it
[16:53] <BigRedS> I think we only need to be able to send out nagging emails from it. Generally, everyone seems to like web forms
[16:53] <mungojerry> what's been added to redmine in the alst year?
[16:56] <BigRedS> No idea. It still seems to always need a collection of plugins to do whatever its users want it to do
[16:57] <mungojerry> private comments in tickets
[17:00] <BigRedS> better mobile support happened at some point, too
[17:00] <BigRedS> that's the cause of one of these upgrades I'm doing
[17:05] <dwatkins> shauno: I gather the 'study tech' used by scientologist teachers is basically an e-meter or lie detector, might be worth mentioning as well
[17:06] <dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Study_Tech
[17:08] <shauno> dwatkins: Yeah, the seed's planted. Left her talking to her family about it. Her brothers a ruby guy, so I can assume he's read the Internet lately
[17:10] <dwatkins> shauno: cool, you may also find this useful, just for the sake of completeness, knowing everything etc.  http://studytech.org/
[17:11] <jacobw2> BigRedS: mantis?
[17:20] <brunogirin> BigRedS: trac?
[17:55] <shauno> dwatkins: not how I expected that to work out.  her father just burst out laughing and asked if she wants to put a cult on her CV.  and her brother sent her an episode of southpark to watch.  I was expecting this to take much more explaining than it did
[18:09] <dw4tkins> shauno: a good result all round, then :)
[18:12] <BigRedS> jacobw2: that rings a vague bell, don't recall having seen it, though. I'd i'd forgotten about trac brunogirin, thanks!
[18:14] <shauno> jsut bizarre.  this is something I've treated as a running joke online.  not something I expected to actually crop up
[19:18] <shauno> dw4tkins: just for giggles, http://www.best-english.sk/ukazka-strany/aplikovana-scholastika/celebrity-podporuju-applied-scholastics/
[19:18] <shauno> some familiar faces there
[20:35] <solarcloud> popey_, Did you get it ? http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=140892510223
[20:40] <popey_> heh, no solarcloud
[20:59] <solarcloud> popey_, What a complete waste of my mother-fracking-time you put me through today !!!
[20:59]  * solarcloud shrugs
[21:00] <penguin42> #38+8 postage for a refurbed inkjet?!
[21:01] <brobostigon>  /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-uk brobostigon
[21:02] <penguin42> brobostigon: Space is the final frontier, and gets into the wrong places often
[21:02] <brobostigon> penguin42: hmm, maybe,
[21:05] <popey_> O_O
[21:05] <popey_> solarcloud, sorry, wasn't going to buy a 2nd hand one :)
[22:27]  * bigcalm yawns his way into the office
[22:28] <dogmatic69> :O
[22:28] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: strange office hours.
[22:28] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: I may be in my office, but it doesn't mean that I'm working
[22:29] <bigcalm> And the ale I am quaffing ensures that I don't do any
[22:29] <solarcloud> popey.. It's not called 2nd hand anymore because there is a guaranteed return policy .. It's called 'systemD'  .. I'm still irked by the whole distrust, I felt today.
[22:30]  * solarcloud nods and shrugs
[22:33] <bigcalm> solarcloud: popey isn't here
[22:44] <solarcloud> bigcalm, Right Ok , fair enough. I'm actually trying to set up Xchat on my other computer but the room list won't copy and paste into that Server-room window .. anyideas ?.. [I'm going from Xchat to Hexchat] ??
[22:44] <bigcalm> Can't help you there sorry
[22:46] <solarcloud> *Request* .. Anyone Else ???