[00:12] <jcastro_> hah
[02:37] <derekv> How does everyone feel about pair programming
[02:54] <rick_h_> good stuff
[02:54] <rick_h_> wish there was more of it
[03:02] <derekv> I don't think it works for me.
[03:03] <derekv> I am less productive in a pairing situation than I am alone.
[03:08] <derekv> So by simple logic, the pair of us working together can not be more productive than working alone, unless the other guy is actually doing negative work, in which case well there is obviously a larger issue there
[03:10] <derekv> Its very... emperor's new clothes to me
[03:11] <Blazeix> for me, if i'm doing heads-down coding i'm more productive alone
[03:12] <Blazeix> but it's very rare that i'm actually banging away at the keyboard, there's more often a large chunk of problem solving
[03:12] <Blazeix> and that's when i find pair programming helpful
[03:13] <derekv> yea, so for me, when there is problem solving, I'm even more useless with a pair
[03:13] <derekv> really I can maybe improve, offer opinion on a solution, or they can improve mine
[03:13] <derekv> but when it comes to the tough problems
[03:14] <derekv> i basically need a scene montage from a bad hacker movie to happen
[03:14] <derekv> there needs to be a dark room with a glowing screen and 3d code flying around and shit and to be left alone
[03:15] <derekv> debugging is actually the worst
[03:15] <derekv> with a pair, basically whoever has the mouse is doing the debuging.
[03:15] <derekv> the other person is adding maybe 5%
[03:16] <derekv> so, ymmv
[03:16] <derekv> for sure
[03:17] <derekv> but ive been doing it for some months now every day and I'm feeling disallusioned
[03:17] <derekv> as far as its effictiveness for me anyways.
[03:19] <jrwren> derekv: you are wrong :p
[03:23] <derekv> IDK maybe I'm one of those bad programmers.
[03:23] <jrwren> you don't have to be
[03:24] <jrwren> part of learning to pair program is learning to communicate verbally as a programmer
[03:24] <derekv> It may also be that I have bad pairs.
[03:24] <jrwren> and learning to teach
[03:25] <jrwren> the secret is that there is no such thing.
[03:25] <jrwren> at worst you get a rubber duck
[03:25] <Blazeix> jrwren++
[03:30] <derekv> the secret is that the emperor is wearing clothes, you just have to try harder to see them
[03:30] <derekv> Its sortof a non argument.
[03:31] <derekv> Anyways, yea, I could look at it this way: I am the shitty pair.
[03:31] <derekv> I'm not sure that it means that I must fix that in order to be a useful member of society etc
[03:32] <jrwren> i don't know that being a useful member of society is important
[03:33] <derekv> depends on what important is ;)
[03:35] <jrwren> and useful.
[03:36] <jrwren> so subjective are some words
[03:39] <derekv> I guess more accuratly, it takes two people to make a shitty pair.
[03:40] <_stink_> or two deuces.
[03:43] <derekv> It sucks that the lone, dark room, dark themes hoody up hacker has gotten a new weird stigma about it now ( I guess replaceing the old, traditional stigma ), but I didn't become that way because I thougt it was going to make me popular with anyone
[03:43] <derekv> just how I am
[03:45] <derekv> GGS thanks for the feedback ... need to sleep, give this pair thing some more try at least for now
[03:46] <jrwren> ha! i work with a few of exactly who you just described.
[03:46] <jrwren> i don't think there is too much of a stigma
[03:46] <jrwren> its just business are more aware of what they are doing than they used to be.
[11:25] <brousch> derekv: I have done very little pair programming. It has always been with someone who knows the business logic that needs to be made but lacks the programming to do so. I had the programming logic but didn't know all of the business logic. It worked well
[13:07] <snap-l> I haven't done any formal "pair programming", but have enjoyed when other people look at my code.
[13:08] <snap-l> Though enjoyed can be a little frustrating at times while they're looking through it
[14:11] <rick_h_> ugh, stupid software that doesn't have a cheesehop package...
[14:13] <brousch> Cheeseshop is deprecated. Everyone installs from github now
[14:41] <brousch> Maybe one of you east siders will be interested in this http://spin.atomicobject.com/2012/12/05/free-office-space-at-atomic-object-detroit/
[16:01] <snap-l> oh, that isinteresting
[16:01] <rick_h_> ?
[16:02] <snap-l> theatomic object office thing
[16:42] <shakes808> Blazeix: Hey boss are you active or away?
[16:43] <shakes808> I will be back later sir .... Later ;)
[16:44] <widox> would be interesting if I could just go and work there; like coworking space
[20:38] <snap-l> Howdy
[20:38] <snap-l> Dad is home, resting comfortably
[20:38] <snap-l> They were able to take the gall bladder out laproscopically. :)
[20:39] <brousch> nice
[20:40] <snap-l> Yeah, so should be a better healing road
[20:40] <rick_h_> .yay!
[20:40] <snap-l> Yeah, happy happy
[21:13] <brousch> What's the right way to give javascript info from my request object in Django?
[21:13] <rick_h_> in your template stick it in a variable
[21:13] <brousch> Toss it into a javascript var in the template, or a hidden html field?
[21:14] <brousch> That means js in my html template
[21:19] <rick_h_> yea, you need some anyway.
[21:19] <rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/templates/bmark/recent.mako#L16
[21:26] <brousch> I hate compromises
[21:27] <rick_h_> well, not really a way around this
[21:28] <rick_h_> at some point you need the JS to be in your HTML on your page
[21:28] <rick_h_> you can either print it in the template or include it as a seperate file
[21:28] <rick_h_> if you want to have this data be a rendered JS file through a django view then just do it via an API call on page load
[21:30] <brousch> This seems spiffy http://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-jsonify/0.2.1
[21:32] <rick_h_> whatever floats your boat
[21:33] <rick_h_> it's just doing a json dump froma call and then turning that into escaped json so you can <javascript src='/my/api/call'>
[21:33] <brousch> Oh, django already has a serializer
[21:33] <brousch> Yeah, doing the conversion in view instead of template
[21:39] <rick_h_> but you're making another http request and using two view calls vs one
[21:39] <rick_h_> if you need to then all for it. Bookie has a ton of api calls that just dump json out
[21:39] <rick_h_> but sometimes you just put the json/data in your template and go
[21:40] <brousch> I'm not going with api
[21:40] <brousch> Just serializing the queryset in the view and passing it to the template
[21:41] <brousch> Saves a lot of code in the template
[21:41] <rick_h_> yea
[21:46] <brousch> Thanks
[21:47] <cougar49> hello michiganers
[23:08] <snap-l> howdy.