[00:00] <mjrosenb> huh, this is interesting
[00:00] <mjrosenb> on my chomebook, the status bar seems to know about my battery
[00:00] <mjrosenb> but acpitool is clueless
[00:06] <sfeole> janimo: i can take a look at the kernel tomorrow AM
[00:39] <lilstevie> mjrosenb, have a look at the output from "upower -d"
[00:40] <lilstevie> mjrosenb, that is where the power applet gets the data from
[00:42] <mjrosenb> lilstevie: most excellent.
[00:42] <mjrosenb> lilstevie: has this replaced acpi?
[00:43] <lilstevie> mjrosenb, arm doesn't have acpi
[00:44] <lilstevie> Well, it is possible those Windows RT tablets do, but current ARM hardware does not
[00:44] <mjrosenb> well
[00:44] <mjrosenb> that makes sense
[02:44] <TheMuso> Here is hoping that acpi doesn't come to arm in any form. :S
[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:24] <mjrosenb> anyone know if the raspberry pi has vfp on it?
[08:28] <feasty> morning all
[08:34] <mjrosenb> feasty: morning.
[13:03] <sfeole> hello
[13:03] <ogra_> yo
[13:25] <sspiff> I'm trying to run Ubuntu on my pandaboard, but the 12.10 release only had an installer image, not a preinstalled image. I want to run the rootfs off of my SD card, not a USB stick/disk, is there any way to achieve this?
[13:48] <sfeole> sspiff: have you tried building a linaro image?
[13:48] <infinity> sspiff: Unofficially, you can use the netboot image, and when d-i/partman asks where to install, tell it to use the "largest contiguous free space".
[13:49] <infinity> sspiff: Officially, we don't support installing to SD, as the user experience is awful.
[13:49] <sfeole> has anyone tried upgrading the nexus7 from 12.04 -> 13.04 recently?
[13:49] <sfeole> via dist-upgrade
[13:52] <ogra_> sfeole, dholbach did and found a bug, should be fixed by now
[13:52] <sfeole> ogra_: with bluez ?
[13:53] <ogra_> the bluetooth fix wasnt uploaded yet
[13:53] <ogra_> and wemdont have brcm-patchram in raring yet
[13:54] <ogra_> *we don't
[13:54] <asiekierka> how to recover a EEE Pad TF101 with battery issues? gets into APX mode but error -71
[13:54] <asiekierka> battery or cable, not sure
[13:54] <dholbach> there were a couple of problems 1) onboard needs an upload to raring (I'm in touch with upstream), 2) bluez did not start/stop correctly, 3) nexus7-firmware wasn't pulled in (fixed by infinity), 4) do-release-upgrade did not work (seems fixed in my last try), 5) unrelated to upgrades, but during an installation I couldn't enter anything into oem-config's text-boxes, neither with onboard, nor attached keyboard
[13:54] <dholbach> sfeole, ogra: ^ that's all I noticed
[13:55] <ogra_> yeah, the last one is really bad
[13:55] <dholbach> did the unity stack land in standard raring already? or should we advise to use the daily-build still?
[13:55] <ogra_> landed yesterday
[13:55] <dholbach> yes baby!
[13:56] <ogra_> in 1.5h there should be images with it
[13:56] <ogra_> (and wit the new serial console by default)
[13:57] <ogra_> no more wlan needed for debugging ;)
[13:57] <lilstevie> asiekierka, this probably isn't the place to get support with that, but usually you are looking at an issue with the usb cable
[13:58] <asiekierka> lilstevie: there's no place to get a support with that and this looks like the best bet seeing as you're here often
[13:58] <lilstevie> #asus-transformer looks kinda more suited
[13:58] <asiekierka> oh
[13:59] <asiekierka> asked.
[14:01]  * lilstevie heads to bed
[14:02] <sfeole> for everyone else watching i meant 12.10 -> 13.04 , I just noticed that
[14:03] <ogra_> heh
[14:07] <gurgalof> does this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1045741 affect ubuntu on nexus7?
[14:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1045741 in firefox (Ubuntu) "since the switch to unity 3D and the GLES driver by default firefox on the pandaboard reders extremely slow" [Undecided,New]
[14:09] <ogra_> my firefox works fine here
[14:09]  * ogra_ is currently typing from his nexus
[14:10] <gurgalof> i think firefox is a bit slow, but that could be due to the arm isn't as fast as a desktop...:P
[14:17] <hrw> I think that ogra_ is spoiled by ac100 speed
[14:18] <sfeole> lol
[15:04] <sfeole> arg still hangs for me when replacing bluez
[15:04] <dholbach> sfeole, I had to kill the process, twice - once for stopping and another time for starting the service
[15:07] <sfeole> dholbach: yea, that did it for me, what I will do is document this for now, I know we are recommended a fresh install to raring but you know there will be some people trying the upgrade path ;P
[15:08] <sfeole> upgrade path == dist-upgrade
[15:08] <dholbach> yeah, I did it too, as the installation from the image did not work for me
[15:08] <ogra_> upgrades should definitely be functional
[15:09] <ogra_> so thats a high  prio bug
[15:09] <sfeole> ogra_: agreed, my installation is now continuing .. I'm already filing the bug now
[15:09] <ogra_> great, thx
[15:12] <ogra_> sadly the touchscreen still dies after a while :(
[15:24] <sfeole> hmm the nexus7-firmware0.2 package looks like it was pulled down and made me confirm it, but it failed to install
[15:25] <sfeole> looking into why
[15:34] <janimo> infinity, ogra_ I am just curious, is armhf going to switch from ports.ubuntu.com ?
[15:35] <ogra_> i dont think so, but ask infinity he might know more ans part of the release team :)
[15:35] <ogra_> *as
[15:36] <infinity> janimo: Probably not for a long while, if ever.  It has nothing to do with official or unofficial support, it has to do with amount of traffic.
[15:36] <ogra_> and mirrors
[15:36] <infinity> janimo: Mirrors don't want to mirror a whole port just for the sake of 1% of users.
[15:37] <infinity> ogra_: Yes, mirror traffic was what I meant.
[15:37] <ogra_> yup
[15:38] <janimo> sounds reasonable
[15:51] <ogra_> sfeole, "screen /dev/ttyACM0 115200" could you run that on your PC with the nexus attached via USB ? hitting enter should get you a login (needs the latest kernel nad the latest default settings)
[15:52] <ogra_> it works for me, just want to make sure it works for everyone
[15:52] <prpplague> ogra_: http://www.elinux.org/PandaBoard-NC
[15:52] <prpplague> ogra_: think there would be any market interested in that?
[15:53] <sfeole> ogra_: i will try after I get upped to Raring
[15:53] <ogra_> yeah,, needs raring indeed
[15:53] <sfeole> ogra_: will let you know
[15:54] <ogra_> prpplague, microsd and no ethernet ?
[15:55] <ogra_> might be intresting for beagle guys that want to go up one level
[15:55] <prpplague> ogra_: ethernet is there, just no connector for it, you have to wire it up yourself
[15:55] <ogra_> yeah
[15:55] <prpplague> ogra_: more for doing hardware dev
[15:55] <ogra_> likewise for the USB hub
[15:55] <prpplague> ogra_: yea
[15:55] <prpplague> ogra_: you can use the standard usb panel connectors
[15:56] <ogra_> well, surely intresting for getting a panda into a slim case
[15:56] <prpplague> ogra_: yea
[15:56] <ogra_> but i wouldnt expect massive sales from it i think
[15:56] <ogra_> seems pretty special cased ... will it be the same priice as a "normal" panda ?
[15:57] <prpplague> cheaper
[15:59] <ogra_> that might be a sales argument then ... i personally would prefer a normal panda if i dont plan to put it into any case or so
[16:00] <ogra_> having the little feet, and all sockets on board makes it easier to use for me ... if i would want to build a server with 10 pandas in a 4u case i would pick the NC
[16:00] <ogra_> or when putting a panda into an ac100 shell :)
[16:01] <prpplague> ogra_: yea that is the thought process
[16:01] <prpplague> brb, need a reboot
[16:28] <plars> janimo, ogra_: so is usb-serial turned on in today's image? I'd like to give it a try today if possible
[16:29] <ogra_> plars, see above :)
[16:29] <sfeole> ogra_: do you have the linux-firmware pkg installed on your Raring image?   version 1.98?
[16:29] <ogra_> plars, as long aas you have the latest kernel and latest ubuntu-default-settings-nexus7
[16:29] <plars> ogra_: awesome, thanks!
[16:30] <ogra_> sfeole, indeed i do, else i wouldnt have wlan
[16:30] <sfeole> and linux-image-nexus7
[16:31] <sfeole> ogra_: i'm trying to find out what each pkg does,   linux-firmware-nexus7_0.2  and linux-image-nexus7
[16:31] <ogra_> linux-image-nexus7 is a metapackage that depends on the latest kernel
[16:32] <ogra_> linux-firmware-nexus7 carries the closed binary firmware bits used on the nexus
[16:32] <sfeole> ok
[16:32] <ogra_> both need to always be installed
[16:33] <ogra_> plars, crap, i think we're missing a securetty entry, i get a prompt but cant log in
[16:44]  * sfeole cheers as he upgrades to raring from Q,  
[16:44] <sfeole> ogra_: i just filed a 2nd bug.. #1087335
[16:45] <ogra_> bug #1087335
[16:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1087335 in ubuntu-nexus7 "linux-firmware-nexus7_0.2 fails to install while dist-upgrading from Q -> R" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087335
[16:45] <ogra_> janimo, ^^^
[16:46] <sfeole> thats why i was asking about those packages
[16:46] <janimo> ogra_, are we still supposed to support Q->R upgrades? I thought 12.10 were play only demo images and we should recommend fresh install on R
[16:46] <janimo> it would save us a lot of trouble
[16:47] <ogra_> janimo, well, we said upgrades should work, even though we dont encourage them
[16:47] <janimo> ogra_, would we need conflicts markers in the package just because we used linux-firmware in the PPA?
[16:48] <janimo> I thought the whole point of 12.10 was here, you get to keep both pieces and we do not spend time on anything related besides initial UDS bringup
[16:49] <ogra_> ogra@nexus7:~$ dpkg -l |grep firmware
[16:49] <ogra_> ii  linux-firmware                            1.98                                        all          Firmware for Linux kernel drivers
[16:49] <ogra_> ii  linux-firmware-nexus7                     0.2                                         all          Firmware for the Nexus 7 tablet.
[16:49] <ogra_> janimo, conflicts wouldnt help
[16:49] <ogra_> since you want both installed
[16:50] <ogra_> oh, wait, conflicts ony
[16:50] <ogra_> *only
[16:50] <ogra_> yeah, that should work
[16:50] <ogra_> or rarther replaces in that case
[16:50] <janimo> well whatever marker says some files moved to another package
[16:51] <janimo> what if we apt-get install linux-firmware
[16:51] <janimo> this will remove the nexus binaries
[16:51] <janimo> and then apt-get install linux-firmware-nexus7
[16:51] <janimo> so make sure we do not let order be determined by apt
[16:51] <ogra_> yes, that way would work, but isnt how apt does it
[16:51] <janimo> or even more hackily backport linux-firmware-nexus7 to Q PPA
[16:52] <ogra_> just a replaces should do
[16:52] <janimo> ogra well would apt do anything else beyond installing the single specified package?
[16:52] <sfeole> ogra_: "screen /dev/ttyACM0 115200" drops me into a login prompt ;)
[16:52] <janimo> Replaces for a PPA package - so carrying some cruft in a baely opened series feels ugly to me :(
[16:53] <ogra_> sfeole, but can you get in ? i seem to have issues with that here
[16:53] <janimo> I think people insatlling 12.10 images are really knowledgable anyway and I would rather they sort the upgrade out by themselves or guided by a wiki
[16:53] <ogra_> janimo, well, its a minor change that will save us lots of silly support questions
[16:57] <sfeole> ogra_: yes i'm in, I had to hit "enter" initially to display the password prompt
[16:57] <ogra_> yeah, thats normal
[16:58] <ogra_> ok, i'll blame my chromebook (client side) then
[16:59] <sfeole> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1415103/
[16:59] <sfeole> ogra_: ^^
[16:59] <ogra_> perfect, thanks for checking !
[16:59] <ogra_> plars, see above
[17:02] <sfeole> bad chromebook!
[17:02] <ogra_> heh, yeah, i blame hrw
[17:02] <ogra_> he does all the chromebook stuff, so it must be his fault :P
[17:49] <hrw> ;D
[18:50] <steev> fwiw, i blame him for everything.  if it weren't for him talking about how awesome the chromebook is, my checking account wouldn't be so light
[19:12] <plars> ogra_: so I have the usb serial stuff working fine (Thanks!) but I'm having a bit of trouble getting preseeding to work.  I've tried adding my preseed file to the initrd that I'm pushing to it, but I'm guessing that by the time it gets there, it's already remounted userdata as root so I'm not finding it.  Any suggestions?
[20:32] <vanhoof> \o/ usb serial ftw
[20:32]  * vanhoof just flashed todays image
[20:44] <plars> vanhoof: yes, it's working pretty nicely I think, but any ideas on how to preseed the remainder of the install?
[20:45] <plars> vanhoof: I've tried sticking a preseed in the initrd, as well as in the rootfs, no luck so far, but tbh I don't have much experience with preseeding just the oem-config portion so I'm not confident that I'm doing it right
[20:46] <vanhoof> plars: i've never done a oem-config preseed myself :\
[20:46]  * vanhoof takes a look
[22:33] <mjrosenb> hey, anyone know if the raspberry pi has vfp?
[22:33] <lilstevie> yes it does
[22:48] <mjrosenb> sweet.
[22:54] <infinity> mjrosenb: It's v6, however.
[22:54] <lilstevie> that indeed
[22:55] <infinity> mjrosenb: Which means that neither Ubuntu nor Debian armhf will run on it (but there's an unofficial Debian v6+hardfloat port called "raspian" just for the Pi)
[22:57] <mjrosenb> infinity: yup. I need an armv6/vfp machine to test on.
[22:57] <mjrosenb> infinity: and it certainly sounds like the raspberry pi fits the bill.
[22:57] <infinity> What an odd requirement. :)
[22:57] <mjrosenb> well, I already have like 10 armv7 devices
[22:58] <infinity> As long as you like testing in slooooow motion, you'll have fun with the Pi.
[22:58] <infinity> It's cute, at least.
[22:58] <mjrosenb> what is it clocked at?
[22:58] <mjrosenb> I thought it was like 600 mhz
[22:59] <mjrosenb> ok, 700 mhz
[22:59] <infinity> Yeah, 700.
[23:00] <mjrosenb> so like half the clock rate of the upper end of my armv7's
[23:00] <infinity> Still, a 700MHz ARM11 isn't anywhere near 7/10 of Cortex-A8.
[23:00] <mjrosenb> true.
[23:00] <infinity> And nowhere close to 7/10 of a 1G A9.
[23:00] <lilstevie> mjrosenb, why would you want to test on an armv6+vfp
[23:00] <infinity> The newer model with 512M of RAM might prevent urges to shoot yourself, though.
[23:01] <lilstevie> I'm getting my fix for that with a roku 2 :p
[23:01] <lilstevie> at least that is optimised for arm11
[23:01] <lilstevie> and the one good thing I have heard about the pi, or really the bcm soc is that it is good at media
[23:01] <mjrosenb> lilstevie: because firefox is going to attempt to support armv6, and I would like to make sure that we can do that.
[23:02] <lilstevie> oh I see
[23:02] <mjrosenb> but we are requiring armv6 + vfp
[23:02] <mjrosenb> because javascript uses doubles *EVERYWHERE*
[23:03] <infinity> Raspbian on a Pi may well be just the right testbed, then.
[23:03] <infinity> It ain't fast, but it should do the trick.
[23:03] <infinity> (For the love of god, though, don't compile on the thing)
[23:03] <lilstevie> haha
[23:04] <lilstevie> compiling on dual and quad core a9s is painful enough
[23:04] <infinity> I've come to terms with A9 performance.
[23:04] <infinity> Then again, I came from 68k porting, so I'm a bit weird.
[23:05] <mjrosenb> infinity: I can't remember the last time I built on an a9
[23:05] <infinity> Sadly, software is like goldfish, and it seems to bloat to fit your computer.
[23:05] <mjrosenb> I cross compile basically everything
[23:05] <mjrosenb> except on my a15
[23:06] <infinity> Cause I swear today's (very fast, in comparison) ARM cores don't really do anything any faster than a 68k 10 years ago performing similar tasks.
[23:06] <mjrosenb> 126 minutes to build firefox!
[23:07] <infinity> I did get a refresher course in just how many crazy drivers we build in distro kernels the other day.
[23:07] <infinity> Was doing some benchmarking with an upstream defconfig (cause building the package is just plain no fun as a benchmark)... Turns out that a defconfig on a Panda is about 10 minutes.
[23:08] <infinity> Whereas our distro kernels take hours.
[23:08] <Zero_Chaos> infinity: most distro kernels just enable everything possible as a module
[23:08] <infinity> Zero_Chaos: Yes, and I know that.  I just didn't realise how many modules that IS these days.
[23:08] <infinity> Zero_Chaos: Apparently, the answer is "a lot".
[23:08] <Zero_Chaos> infinity: yeah, make -j64 is nice
[23:08] <infinity> Not on a Panda, it's not. :P
[23:09] <Zero_Chaos> infinity: I would imagine not ;-)
[23:10] <infinity> Still, a defconfig in 10m isn't bad.  It wasn't that long ago I used to build my own barebones monolithic kernels on x86 kit, and that was around 30m.
[23:10] <infinity> (Might have been around P200ish days?)
[23:11] <infinity> Okay, maybe I'm getting old, when I imply that the P200 wasn't that long ago.
[23:12] <lilstevie> -j5 is about as far as I can take the prime before more jobs make things slower
[23:12] <lilstevie> (tegra3)
[23:12] <infinity> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1413025/ <-- My unscientific quick tests on a PandaES.
[23:12] <lilstevie> and also agreed, computers may have gotten faster, but the software has gotten bigger
[23:13] <lilstevie> infinity, heh
[23:13] <lilstevie> building a kernel deb with pbuilder takes about an hour and a half on my trimslice
[23:13] <infinity> -j64 would probably make it weep.
[23:15] <infinity> lilstevie: Do you talk to the Trimslice guys much?
[23:15] <infinity> lilstevie: I'm kinda curious if they plan to rev the hardware with newer and shinier SoCs, or if it was a one-shot deal.
[23:15] <lilstevie> infinity, not really, the only times I have had questions for them I get "why would you want that"
[23:16] <infinity> Cause I like the idea and the form-factor, but it's obsolete by now.
[23:16] <lilstevie> yeah, someone has asked that question, and they said no comment
[23:16] <Zero_Chaos> infinity: -j64 brings most systems to their knees pretty quick. -j brings nearly all systems to their knees
[23:17] <infinity> Zero_Chaos: The build machine we use for internal kernel test builds seems to have a sweet spot around -j256... Ish.
[23:17] <lilstevie> infinity, http://emea.kontron.com/products/boards+and+mezzanines/embedded+motherboards/miniitx+motherboards/ktt30mitx.html has my attention, except I am getting to the point where I would rather avoid tegra
[23:17] <infinity> (It's a 32-core i7-base Xeon with stupid amounts of RAM and a shamelessly fast stripe)
[23:18] <lilstevie> infinity, although most of the crippling in tegra systems is slow eMMC
[23:18] <Zero_Chaos> infinity: yeah on that I'm guessing you could just rock "-j" and let it fork as much as it likes. even on kernel builds like that I can't keep it >200 jobs for very long so if you have that many procs give up and use -j
[23:18] <infinity> lilstevie: Curious that that's only clocked at 900MHz.
[23:18] <Zero_Chaos> infinity: I have 32 amd cores and build in RAM
[23:18] <lilstevie> that board would be an interesting test cause it does have SATA
[23:19] <lilstevie> infinity, yeah, I noticed that too
[23:19] <Zero_Chaos> infinity: so about 1/2 the intel system you describe
[23:19] <lilstevie> infinity, I wonder if it is for cooling
[23:19] <lilstevie> infinity, throw a heatsink on it and go nuts
[23:20] <lilstevie> on the tf201 they have managed to bring it out to 1.8GHz with all 4 cores active
[23:20] <lilstevie> but it does make the metal case nice and toasty
[23:20] <infinity> lilstevie: Maybe.  I'm probably not going to buy any more A9s out of pocket.  I suspect I'll pick up one A15 at some point with my own money, and then wait for someone to bless me with aardvarch64 silicon.
[23:20] <infinity> lilstevie: (Not counting useful items I actually need, like phones, of course.  I just mean I'm not going to keep collecting toys)
[23:21] <lilstevie> infinity, yeah, I am getting a surface (waiting for it to arrive right now) but after that I am not paying for any more arm systems until aarch64
[23:22] <lilstevie> infinity, the only exception to that may be a quad core S4, cause krait is crazy fast compared to A9
[23:24] <lilstevie> but yeah, I am going to live with my current arm machines for as long as possible