[06:14] <CnetCOM> I got a question every release of Ubuntu has gotten worse is Canonical pulling out funding due to the bad economy and thus you do not have good developers and are releasing poorly done distros like 12.10? Every OS since 11.04 has had more and more issues...Why? More  crash and fix reports have been file on your blog than with any other release...why?
[06:14] <CnetCOM> ?
[06:17] <crimsonmane> CnetCOM: what has gotten worse?
[06:17] <crimsonmane> oh he left
[18:21] <zykotick9> RMS speaks out against ubuntu's spyware - http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do
[18:22] <IdleOne> I think spyware is a strong word in this case. spyware implies that the user never knows or finds out about the information being passed on.
[18:23] <IdleOne> RMS used buzzwords like spyware to add weight and make this a more controversial issue then it actually is.
[18:24] <IdleOne> I suppose you can argue that many users will never know because most won't ever see the privacy notice.
[18:25] <IdleOne> Also, he is late to the party and didn't bring any dip like he promised.
[18:25] <IdleOne> :)
[18:26]  * zykotick9 doesn't think DEs should need "privacy/legal notices"
[18:29] <zykotick9> IdleOne: sidenote, i liked your dip joke ;)
[18:29] <IdleOne> They do if privacy is an issue
[18:29] <zykotick9> agreed, so why make it an issue?
[18:29] <IdleOne> because Canonical isn't a bottomless pit filled with cash
[18:30] <IdleOne> They need to make money, only way is to have commercial partners OR start charging for the distribution
[18:30] <zykotick9> yes, canonical's attempts to make money, seemingly at any cost - is becoming more and more clear
[18:30] <IdleOne> which do you prefer?
[18:30] <zykotick9> i'd say, charging for the distro is a lot more honest...
[18:31] <IdleOne> there is nothing dishonest about having commercial partners
[18:31] <IdleOne> We don't like the method in which they were introduced, but that doesn't imply any dishonesty on the part of Canonical
[18:31] <zykotick9> let's not use the word "commercial" here, i have no problem with canonical making $$$, just HOW they are acheiving that end
[18:32] <IdleOne> but commercial partner is exactly what Amazon is
[18:32] <AlanBell> there is a lot of flaming of Ubuntu, only some of it is really deserved
[18:32] <zykotick9> and facebook/twitter - it's not just amazon
[18:33] <IdleOne> zykotick9: right, I was just using Amazon as 1 example
[18:33] <AlanBell> I love the Amazon lens personally, I think it is a great way to search for shopping stuff
[18:33] <zykotick9> handing facebook what people type into unity on there computers - is scary
[18:33] <IdleOne> it is.
[18:33] <AlanBell> I thoroughly dislike the way they have implemented the privacy options
[18:33] <IdleOne> AlanBell: 100% agree
[18:34]  * Evil_Eric yawns and waves to the active chatters
[18:34] <AlanBell> it would be better not to have them IMHO
[18:34] <IdleOne> not to have privacy options?
[18:34] <AlanBell> yes
[18:34] <zykotick9> ya, i was shocked there
[18:34] <zykotick9> "not to need them" perhaps
[18:34] <IdleOne> hmm, I'm not sure I follow
[18:34] <AlanBell> it would be better if they were implemented well
[18:34] <IdleOne> ah, yes.
[18:35] <AlanBell> but I think what is there is more scary than nothing
[18:35] <IdleOne> well a broken system is worse than no system I agree
[18:38] <IdleOne> What I would like is that a regular user like me who doesn't do any development, or have any financial stake in Ubuntu, be able to test the "new" features before they are released to the testing community.
[18:39] <IdleOne> Those user could then report back on what they think would be good/bad/whatever.
[18:39] <zykotick9> user input is not one of ubuntu's strong points ;)
[18:40] <IdleOne> it hasn't been for a while, but they have started that up some.
[18:41] <IdleOne> welcome good sir
[18:41] <blitz> sup
[18:41] <IdleOne> sirs and/or madames
[18:42] <IdleOne> We were just talking about the RMS blog post
[18:42] <blitz> RMS uses iThings, he's probably the worst offender of that which you and I admonish
[18:42] <IdleOne> blitz: I read that iThings as a firm warning from his lawyers
[18:42] <IdleOne> Don't use any tm words or we will get sued!
[18:43] <Zael> well i think the article starts off a bit over the top and on it's way to crazyville... then i read on and get what the real topic is... and i have to agree with RMS... it's a big privacy issue for many people
[18:43] <blitz> no, that's definitely not what it is
[18:43] <blitz> he does that kind of stuff all the time
[18:43] <IdleOne> I don't read his stuff often enough
[18:44] <Zael> it's easily solvable though... just put an option on the installer screens to turn it on or off
[18:44] <IdleOne> Only reason I read this latest one is because I saw AlanBell post it in another channel
[18:44] <blitz> I still think the amazon lens should be off by default
[18:44] <IdleOne> Zael: the option to turn it off as there, after it is installed.
[18:44] <IdleOne> s/as/is/
[18:44] <Zael> but it isn't advertised or announced anywhere really
[18:45] <Zael> many first time and novice users won't even know about it
[18:45] <zykotick9> IdleOne: that default on - is an issue
[18:45] <IdleOne> agreed
[18:47] <zykotick9> and it wouldn't work the other way - who's going to choose "share my data with company 1,2,3"?  no one.
[18:48] <IdleOne> it really isn't "share my data"
[18:49] <blitz> if you put it that way no one will
[18:49] <blitz> if you said "show me products relating to my searches" people will
[18:49] <IdleOne> it is share my relevant and encrypted non personal identifying data. aiui
[18:49] <zykotick9> blitz: obviously it's going to be painted in a friendly light - but that's the end result
[18:49] <Zael> some people's all for stuff like that
[18:49] <Zael> i'm a bit conservative and could make the remark: look at the number of people who put their real information on facebook
[18:50] <Zael> to me, that's asking strangers to invade your privacy... and to some people that's just fine.. and they'd turn it on
[18:52] <Zael> we're going to be facing a lot of issues like this as computing moves more toward the cloud
[18:52] <zykotick9> Zael: with FB people get something in return (connections with friends/family) [i'm NOT saying FB is a good idea!], but what do they get in return for sharing info with canonical/amazon/twitter?
[18:52] <zykotick9> Zael: s/cloud/fog/ ;)
[18:53] <Zael> the password manager... lastpass.. is a good example... people use that and it stores their passwords on servers on the internet... then what happened? the inevitable.. those servers got hacked and people's passwords got stolen
[18:53] <Zael> good point zykotick9
[18:53] <Zael> the business answer is that you get customized advertising
[18:53] <zykotick9> ya!  i want that!
[18:53] <Zael> :D
[18:55] <Zael> it's different when you choose to use a service.. like google, which now stores everything you give them indefinitely
[18:57] <Zael> some people will say, well you're choosing ubuntu.. true.. but i don't think ubuntu is doing enough to make those actions apparent
[18:57] <IdleOne> We can hope they will with the next version