AlanBellanyone feel like testing and confirming bug 108787301:07
ubot5Launchpad bug 1087873 in unity-lens-github (Ubuntu) "lens privacy feature does not work on all lenses" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108787301:07
yellabshello all you good people16:06
yellabsi am looking at the dash shopping lens, trying to understand how it works, and to see if there are options to make it better, and more acceptable ..16:07
yellabsare there any new directions taken on this issue that are new at the moment ?16:08
yellabsseen the bug reports and its buzzing all over the web16:08
yellabsprivacy wise that is..16:08
yellabsany one has some insights on the topic ?16:09
Zaelsudo apt-get --purge remove16:13
yellabsyeah , thats an option too16:13
Zaelsudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop16:14
yellabsalso possible16:16
Zaeldoesn't affect me.. unity doesn't even work with my radeon 567016:16
yellabsi see16:17
Zaelthat's what made me red faced to begin with and i downloaded the Xubuntu iso... then i hear about this amazon mess.. and that's like a nail right there, right in the coffin... so i'm like forget normal ubuntu... long live Xubuntu!!16:19
* Zael shakes a pitchfork at it16:20
yellabsi am looking for some idea to change it for the good ..16:20
yellabsbut you dont use the dash , so you dont know how it works16:21
yellabsi am testing it a bit right now16:21
Zaelit's simple... make it default off and either during installation of ubuntu or on the first use of unity's search make the user aware of it and give them the option to turn it on if they wish16:21
Zaeli heard it still sends stuff, even when you turn it off though16:22
yellabsi can see what happens , using etherape16:23
yellabsvery visual .. ;P16:23
popeyZael, can you back that up with facts?16:24
yellabsi can try right now16:24
popeyif it still sends data when switched off, that's a bug, and should be filed as such16:24
Zaelwhat would i need to back up again?16:24
yellabsif you like16:24
Zaeloh, i just heard it.. i don't know if it's true.. yellabs could probably tell you16:25
popeyok, so rumour. fair enough16:25
popeyI heard it eats your first born child.16:25
IdleOnepopey: unity-lens-github doesn't follow the privacy flag16:25
Zaeli heard it's friends with steve ballmer16:25
popeyIdleOne, file a bug against that lens?16:26
IdleOnebug 108787316:26
ubot5Launchpad bug 1087873 in unity-lens-github (Ubuntu) "lens privacy feature does not work on all lenses" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108787316:26
IdleOneAlanBell: already did16:26
yellabspopey , did you see the image idea ?16:27
yellabsby the way i filed several bugs16:27
IdleOneZael: this channel is for real discussion, casual but real facts.16:27
popeyyellabs, what image?16:27
yellabsits just an idea16:27
yellabsbut maybe an option16:27
ZaelIdleOne: something's wrong with your face?16:27
yellabsfor the lens16:27
IdleOnejokes are good, but when in the middle of a serious topic it doesn't really help to make silly comments.16:28
Zaelk, gotcha16:28
popeyyellabs, the home lens is functionally what your globe thing does16:28
popeythe whole point of the home lens (the dash) is that it searches _everything_ its possible to search, online and offline16:29
yellabshmm, if i see home , i think its searching my home16:29
yellabsif i see globe, i know its searching the globe16:29
yellabssee the difference ?16:29
yellabstested the off setting, its indeed off and not connecting to the canonical search server16:30
Zaeli suppose it indexes16:30
Zaeli remember privacy issues arose from similar circumstances in windows, when it started adding indexing and online searching16:31
AlanBellI am actually having a bit of a discussion about this on Google Plus now16:31
yellabsits buzzing all over the web16:31
yellabsbut somehow some try to ignore the issue16:32
AlanBellno, a load of hype is buzzing all over the web :)16:32
AlanBellwould be rather smashing if someone could confirm bug 108787316:32
ubot5Launchpad bug 1087873 in unity-lens-github (Ubuntu) "lens privacy feature does not work on all lenses" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108787316:32
Zaelyellabs: to some people, it's not an issue... i would wager those same people are the ones that freely publish their real information and activities all over social networking sites16:32
AlanBellto me it wasn't an issue until they added the privacy control16:33
yellabsdid it wake up something ?16:33
AlanBellwell it doesn't work16:34
Zaeleven if the feature is defaulted on... there should be a large effort for awareness being made16:34
Zaellike a real, in your face, warning on first use16:34
IdleOneThe issue IMHO is not if the feature should exist or not, it exists and is not going away. The issue is not about how some people handle thier privacy comapared to others, we all have different ideas about what we consider to be private. The issue is what would be the best way to handle it so that everyone can feel comfortable enough to use the feature if they wanted to use it.16:35
AlanBellyes, I agree with that16:35
Zaeli agree, and be aware of it's existence16:35
AlanBelldid that mockup earlier, I would like to see that in the privacy dialog, so the user can decide which lenses get to see the dash home searches16:36
AlanBellthen you don't have to uninstall the lenses you don't want to see all searches16:36
yellabslike the control over search engines in your browser ?16:37
IdleOneAlanBell: that looks like a sensible idea. It should be user opt in on a lens by lens choice.16:37
yellabsfull control over the lenses ?16:37
popeyAlanBell, I'd like a two-step thing. one option which says "it can appear in the dash" and another which says "..and it can go online"16:38
IdleOnewhich means the lens specifications need to have some required global rules to make sure they all follow at the minimum the privacy flag16:38
Zaeli agree, popey16:39
yellabshmm, the globe icon with checkbox ?16:39
yellabsinclude online search option ..16:40
AlanBellpopey: we have no technical means of preventing a process from going online16:42
AlanBellwe would have to do apparmor or something to do that16:42
IdleOneAlanBell: perhaps a little box at the bottom with a description of a selected lens explaining what each lens does and what data will be sent over the wire if enabled.16:43
AlanBellI don't want to propose something that is hard or impossible16:43
AlanBellyeah, the .lens file could be extended with a few fields like "this lens would like to see global searches" and "this lens sends queries off the local machine"16:43
AlanBellor "this lens sends queries to an intranet server16:44
AlanBellthat use-case is distinct from sending data to consumer websites I feel.16:44
IdleOnebasically give the user as much info as possible so they make the most informed decision possible (without cluttering up the window of course)16:45
yellabsjust an tick box , include online search , is not an option ? is it possible ?16:46
ZaelAlanBell: protocol wrap it or run it as a different user with changed ip tables16:46
Zaelthat's messy though16:46
yellabshave to eat , great that there is thought about the issue, i feel there will be an very good idea for inprovement !16:47
AlanBellI guess, like tsocks does16:47
AlanBellyellabs: a tickbox is easy. The code that the tickbox is attached to is less easy :)16:48
yellabsi see17:01
yellabscan it not be connected to the off switch thats used in privacy settings right now ?17:05
yellabsthat already coded , so you dont have to do it twice17:06
yellabsall you need is the tickbox to be connected to the toggle switch of privacy settings.. ?17:07
AlanBellyeah, that one is the problem I have17:08
yellabsah , okey17:08
AlanBelleach scope has to have code in it to check the state of the checkbox17:08
AlanBellso privacy is opt-in for scope authors17:09
yellabsit needs to be organised i guess, obligatory code to go before any other code for the checkbox , if that would be the solution17:14
yellabshow does the on of privacy switch work now ?17:20
AlanBelllike this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mhall119/onehundredscopes/unity-locoteams-scope/revision/417:21
AlanBellyou need to add that code to every scope that you want to respect the flag17:21
AlanBellonly a few lines, however it isn't documented and it is utterly optional17:22
yellabswow thats short17:23
AlanBellyeah, the checkbox sets com.canonical.Unity.Lenses/remote-content-search to 'None'17:25
AlanBellthe scopes we ship by default check for that and turn themselves off17:25
AlanBellany other scope won't check and won't turn itself off17:25
yellabsso there is no group of people that check the scope's for good behavior ?17:29
yellabsbefore they land in ubuntu ?17:29
yellabsor , some one assigned to repackage them to include the code of the on / off option, maybe even automated somehow ?17:30
yellabs( some one ) read 'team `17:30
yellabshmm , thinking17:33
yellabsscope is running on top of ?17:33
yellabsdifficult . for sure17:36
yellabsi thought it would be better like this ,17:44
yellabsbut i guess, that hits the same problem ..17:44
yellabscant use the on / off option because of the design right now17:44
yellabsany way, i appreciate the hard work you folks put into it, and thanks for the insight ..17:45
yellabsin a few day's i have some more time, and will look into it too, although i am more of an desktop user .. who know i might come up with something17:46
yellabsmaybe the query should be sent through a verification system, and the verification can be turned on / of , so the query is rejected when toggle switch to off, but thats back to scratch, wich does not seem the way to go17:50
yellabsany way, take care you all , see you next time17:50
yellabsthanks for your time17:50
* yellabs background 18:00
AlanBellyellabs: one would hope the Application Review Board would be checking scopes to see if they implement the privacy flag, however I have no information to suggest that they do, and I have bug 1087873 to suggest that they don't18:05
ubot5Launchpad bug 1087873 in unity-lens-github (Ubuntu) "lens privacy feature does not work on all lenses" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108787318:05
yellabsreading it18:10
yellabsread it..18:16
yellabswork to be done.. (y)18:17
u01010what is different between Linux and freebsd?20:57
guntbertu01010: please keep in mind that this channel is for ubuntu related discussion - try in #ubuntu-offtopic or in ##linux20:58
u01010there is tools in fedora like system-config... or system-network can i user them in ubuntu?20:59
guntbertu01010: no21:00
u01010is there any alternative ?21:00
guntbertu01010: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/21:02
u01010gnutbert: I need this tools in server with out GUI21:03
guntbertu01010: are you using ubuntu-server? then you will find support in #ubuntu-server21:04
orlokChaos7Theory: Have you looked at metasploit or similar?22:41
orlokChaos7Theory: Its a framework for utilising exploits to deliver payloads22:42
Chaos7Theoryorlok: In layman's terms? :X22:42
orlokChaos7Theory: Help people take a theoretical software vulnrability and add the payload of their choice to it so the vulnrable system runs code of the attackers choosing, in other words, 0wns the server22:43
Chaos7TheorySo whitehat hackers? I'm not really that experienced of a programmer really yet.22:45
orlokChaos7Theory: yes, the tool is developed by "legitimate" security researchers22:46
orlokChaos7Theory: There are unvountable linux systems on the internet that are "infected" however, and its nothing to do with any software flaw however, only bad management22:47
orlokuncountable, even22:48
orlokChaos7Theory: bad passwor choice is much more of an issue for any linux or unix like system on the internet (combined with bad management)22:48
Chaos7Theoryorlok: Well, I'm also reading through the wiki page and a lot of the arguments hold water as to why even if Linux were more popular, there'd still have to be many hurdles to jump over before a virus can propogate.22:49
orlokChaos7Theory: Yup. Bad passwords are easier to find and compromise than a remote root exploit22:50
Chaos7TheoryOne of the main reasons I'm migrating back to Linux over Windows is it's universal package/updating system22:50
orlokChaos7Theory: Any system running ssh connected to the internet will get tens of brute force attacks per day, at least. Ditto with apache and php exploit attempts.22:50
orlokChaos7Theory: Generally from CHina, Russia, Pakistan, etc etc.22:51
orlokChaos7Theory: Occasionally i get attacks from english speaking countries, its rare enough that i usually send an email. Only a few times a year22:51
orlokOccasionally i make phone calls. Once i ended up talking to a guy from redhat.22:51
Chaos7TheoryI used to use Linux (Ubuntu) two years ago after I screwed up my Windows OS, but the support for 64-bit systems back then wasn't really stable enough. After taking a Linux course in college, I'm migrating back with the support being there now.22:51
ikoniathe supports not really changed in two years23:00
Chaos7TheoryActually it has noticeably on my end. Before, wireless network adapters had trouble working out-of-the-box was the biggest deal, which isn't a problem anymore on my end.23:02

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