[00:16] <zequence> Need to get a live system working, and so far whatever I try, there's always something putting a stop to things
[00:48] <Len-nb> zequence, LMMS added to "generation" in seeds.
[00:48] <Len-nb> We'll see how it goes
[00:52] <Len-nb> micahg, besides -look, ubuntustudio-icon-theme and ubuntustudio-default-settings need to be uploaded.
[00:53] <Len-nb> The changes in one match the other.
[00:56] <Len-nb> zequence, if our ISO builds with lmms, then we will need to generate a *.desktop file to go with it.
[00:57] <Len-nb> zequence, I think that is my studio work for the day (week?)
[01:02] <micahg> Len-nb: ACK
[01:02] <Len-nb> micahg, thanks
[01:13] <zequence> Len-nb: I find that our categories don't make much sense
[01:14] <zequence> Wouldn't say lmms is well categorized under generation, as it is a seuqencer
[01:14] <Len-nb> It is where qtractor is.
[01:15] <Len-nb> I would like to have fewer audio metas
[01:15] <zequence> But, I can see there's other categories within audio that are used strangely as well
[01:15] <zequence> Yea
[01:15] <zequence> One would really be enough
[01:15] <Len-nb> Or one pro and one not?
[01:15] <zequence> If we want to use subcategories, we can add those in the seed source, for reference
[01:16] <zequence> You're thinking about standard desktop audio vs pro audio?
[01:16] <zequence> Perhaps standard desktop stuff should be in its own meta
[01:16] <Len-nb> Standard desktop should already be in desktop
[01:17] <Len-nb> Maybe one would be fine
[01:17] <zequence> Yea, that is probably the best one. If someone uses another desktop, they will already have a standard set of desktop audio apps
[01:18] <Len-nb> What about things like jack for video?
[01:18] <zequence> That should be a dependency in video
[01:18] <Len-nb> I think video depends on a basic audio meta now.
[01:20] <zequence> Audacity only from what I can see
[01:20] <Len-nb> no it doesn't, jack should be there as there are some things that use jack for timing.
[01:20] <zequence> Perhaps we should leave this for later
[01:21] <zequence> We need to thoroughly go through each workflow
[01:21] <Len-nb> we have 5 audio metas.
[01:21] <zequence> I think at least we could put all the audio metas together for now
[01:22] <zequence> There's a lot of stuff we could improve for all metas
[01:22] <Len-nb> the name ffmpeg should be replaced
[01:22] <Len-nb> It is now av-something
[01:23] <zequence> Well, that is one of those details that someone going thoroughly through video might want to look at
[01:23] <zequence> You could add workitems about that
[01:23] <Len-nb> libav now
[01:23] <zequence> ffmpeg does install the av stuff though
[01:24] <Len-nb> Ya, but that will not last forever
[01:24] <zequence> This package contains the deprecated ffmpeg program. This package also serves as a transitional package to libav-tools. Users are advised to use avconv from the libav-tools package instead of ffmpeg
[01:25] <zequence> I'm hoping this kernel build actually get me somehwere. Been working on getting to work for two days now. That's no way of getting things done
[01:26] <Len-nb> I gave up on kernels soon as I could :)
[01:26] <zequence> Yea, well. I really need one that I can actually use for something
[01:26] <Len-nb> being bale to use premade kernels is nice
[01:27] <zequence> That's where I'm out of luck
[01:27] <Len-nb> *able
[01:27] <zequence> There's not a single one I can use right now, save the 9.10 realtime kernel
[01:27] <zequence> I'm not that eager to install puredyne in 2012
[01:27] <Len-nb> That works at all or just for one task?
[01:28] <zequence> That works at a reasonable latency
[01:28] <Len-nb> Right
[01:28] <zequence> The Debian rt is quite nice, but there's a bug in the system. If I was not busy trying to find something that works, I might actually have time to figure out what it is
[01:28] <Len-nb> Is that a 2.6*
[01:28] <zequence> Shuts down an irq after a while. In this case, the firewire device
[01:29] <zequence> Debian Wheezy. 3.2
[01:29] <zequence> Same as Precise
[01:29] <Len-nb> (2.6 in 9.10)
[01:29] <zequence> Yea
[01:29] <zequence> 9.10 was the last Ubuntu to contain a -rt kernel
[01:29] <Len-nb> That is disappointing
[01:30] <zequence> linux-lowlatency won't work, unless I install Ubuntu 10.10
[01:30] <zequence> And there's no garantee that is up to par either
[01:30] <zequence> I wish I had done some cyclic tests on the -lowlatency back then
[01:30] <Len-nb> So what changed from 2.6 to 3*?
[01:30] <zequence> Practical tests were giving wonderful results
[01:31] <zequence> I built a 2.6.38 kernel on 12.10 recently, thinking I'd get better performance, but no
[01:31] <Len-nb> Have some buffer sizes gone up?
[01:31] <zequence> There's something outside the kernel that seems to affect the performance as well
[01:32] <zequence> Or, I just don't have good enough testing data
[01:32] <zequence> There was a weird time when we were testing -lowlatency during 10.10
[01:32] <zequence> It was 2.6.37
[01:32] <zequence> We were getting awesome results. All of us
[01:33] <zequence> Then, a week later, or so. The same exact kernel, after a system update. Worse performance
[01:33] <Len-nb> I wonder if something like upstart or dbus is a problem
[01:35] <zequence> I don't know enough about the inner workings of linux in order to have a clue. But, if I can just get a 3.2 kernel working on Ubuntu without the irq bug that Debian suffers from, I can relax and start working on what I really should be doing, namely preparing a 1.0 version of the audio software that my band is to use for live gigs
[01:35] <Len-nb> I wonder if the slackware audio distro has this problem.
[01:36] <Len-nb> It is totally roll your own. compile everything.
[01:36] <zequence> It is related to audio somehow. Only audio devices were getting borked
[01:37] <zequence> But, it's not in the vanilla kernel. It's something Debian specific
[01:39] <Len-nb> Is it the FW stack?
[01:40] <zequence> This time it was. On another machine it was a pci audio device
[01:40] <zequence> This time it was when using jack. the other time pulseaudio
[01:41] <zequence> So, alsa
[01:41] <zequence> er.. :P
[01:41] <zequence> I'm getting tired now
[01:41] <zequence> I don't know. Seems like there should be no connection at all when I think about it
[01:41] <zequence> Just happened to be two audio devices both times
[01:45] <Len-nb> just found this:
[01:45] <Len-nb> jackd has to run with realtime priviledges. One way to do this on Slackware would
[01:45] <Len-nb> be to use set_rlimits. Since 12.2 there's another way, though experimental. If
[01:45] <Len-nb> you have a filesystem that supports posix capabilities (reiserfs does not), you
[01:45] <Len-nb> can grant jackd the rights to run in realtime mode, even when started as normal user
[01:45] <Len-nb> with the following command: setcap cap_ipc_lock,cap_sys_nice=ep /usr/bin/jackd
[01:46] <Len-nb> zequence,  That sounds like it sets bits on the binary file itself.
[08:13] <smartboyhw> What the...My newest dist-upgrade wants to remove ubuntustudio-desktop!!!!
[08:37] <smartboyhw> Hey ttoine 
[08:47] <ttoine> smartboyhw, hello
[08:48] <ttoine> zequence, the ticket for emails is handled ! I just get the email notification
[08:48] <ttoine> zequence, if the jetpack package cannot be installed, I have another way to share posts
[08:50] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yes:D
[08:54] <ttoine> smartboyhw, it means that like any other ubuntu flavour, we are a community !
[08:55] <smartboyhw> ttoine, :D;D
[09:00] <ttoine> smartboyhw, and I am happy, the delivery of my brand new VPS is this morning !
[09:00] <smartboyhw> ttoine, :D
[09:01] <ttoine> and my brand news VPS is delivered this morning !
[09:01]  * ttoine feel happy this monday morning
[09:04] <smartboyhw> :D
[09:11] <zequence> ttoine: I did see that they put the ticket in queue, but still no email adresses from what I can tell
[09:11] <smartboyhw> zequence, well at least they will do it:P
[09:12] <ttoine> zequence, yes, but you can notice than it seems to be faster than for jetpack
[09:12] <zequence> I think that's just coincidental
[09:13] <zequence> Don't think they have many people working on those tickets
[09:14] <zequence> I've been trying to get a well performing kernel all day tomorrow
[09:14] <zequence> ttoine: Have you built an -rt with nvidia support?
[09:15] <zequence> I'm getting awful results from cyclic testing, but finding out now that it doesn't tell you how well audio performs
[09:15] <smartboyhw> zequence, uh I have -rt kernels here built, but without Nvidia support
[09:15] <zequence> smartboyhw: Yes. That is the normal result, without patching either the linux source, or the nvidia source further
[09:16] <smartboyhw> zequence, you mean http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7496 ?
[09:16] <zequence> all day yesterday*
[09:16] <zequence> smartboyhw: No
[09:16] <smartboyhw> zequence, er? ( I don't use Nvidia anyway:P)
[09:17] <zequence> Without nvidia proprietary drivers, you might get worse performance
[09:18] <smartboyhw> zequence, so what you want is a -rt kernel with the "proprietary" drivers
[09:20] <astraljava> smartboyhw: Probably a conflict with packages, the archives are fluxuating. Don't worry, try again later.
[09:20] <ttoine> zequence, you may use the nouveau driver, no ?
[09:20] <smartboyhw> astraljava, try again what?
[09:20] <ttoine> with -rt kernel, the only good result I have ever had is on full Intel pc
[09:21] <zequence> ttoine: Yes, but at a cost to performance
[09:21] <astraljava> smartboyhw: dist-upgrade
[09:21] <zequence> Funny enough though, I was getting bad results from cyclic testing, but no xruns at really low latency with my FW device
[09:21] <smartboyhw> astraljava, ah:D
[09:22] <ttoine> zequence, yes, for sure. but I was one of the first to use a rt kernel with Ubuntu, I guess with Ubuntu Edgy. It has always been special to use. I thank a lot Alession for his work !
[09:23] <ttoine> zequence, what do you mean with "bad resulst from cyclic testing" ?
[09:23] <zequence> ttoine: There's a test for determining latency, called cyclictest
[09:23] <ttoine> ok
[09:23] <zequence> But, it doesn't tell you how well your audio hardware will perform against the system of course
[09:24] <ttoine> zequence, sorry, I am not very concentrated. I am playing with my new server
[09:24] <zequence> I was getting exactly the same results from both -rt and -lowlatency on this machine, on 12.04
[09:24] <zequence> Bad results from the cyclictest, that should give xruns
[09:24] <zequence> But, no xruns
[09:25] <zequence> Anyway, seems like I'm actually getting the performance I need now
[09:25] <smartboyhw> Well anyway I will try to build a -rt kernel with the Ubuntu drivers, but I'll wait till 3.8 releases. There are no -rt patches for 3.7...
[09:25] <zequence> Just need to start using the software and see how it goes
[13:23] <zequence> jack2 1.9.9 is out. I'd expect it to appear in raring sometime soonish
[13:23] <zequence> should hopefully be a lot more stable than previous version
[13:43] <smartboyhw> zequence, Oh!
[13:45] <smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
[13:48] <scott-work> good morning smartboyhw 
[13:48] <scott-work> zequence: ping
[13:56] <zequence> scott-work: pong
[14:11] <smartboyhw> Eh scott-work zequence you guys ping-ponged without any discussion?:?
[14:20] <zequence> Len-nb: There's really only one thing I can think of which might need some consideration, when it comes to having only one audio meta
[14:20] <zequence> Len-nb: plugins
[14:21] <zequence> Either we find a way to make it easy for users to find "recommended" applications no matter what application they use with the plugins, or we add a ubuntustudio-audio-extra meta (which could include a lot more than audio plugins)
[14:21] <zequence> Sorry, "recommended" plugins
[17:13] <ttoine> gmail's down...
[17:13] <ttoine> I hope it is not because Canonical was setting up our emails address ;-)
[17:24] <zequence> That's rare
[20:02] <ttoine> good evening ;-)
[23:05] <Len-nb> zequence, whats with im-switch/im-config conflicts? It looks like one depends on the other. Has one been upgraded and the other not?
[23:06] <Len-nb> zequence, ^^ to do with ISO builds.
[23:06] <micahg> needs a seed change/meta upload
[23:06] <micahg> same that xubuntu did