[07:45] <anastasya> Would you please consider adding a reference to #netflix-desktop to ubottu's !netflix command? Even the developer of the Netflix App is in there regularly
[07:47] <anastasya> I won't idle here waiting for an answer, I'll keep checking with ubottu. thanks for your time
[07:47] <jussi> !netflix
[07:49] <jussi> !no, netflix is <reply> If you use Netflix, instructions on a method of installing it via PPA are detailed here http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/ppa-for-netflix-desktop-app.html - If you need support, you can try #netflix-desktop or please contact the developer through the comments section on that page.
[07:49] <jussi> !netflix > anastasya
[09:01] <ikonia> !no, netflix is <reply> If you use Netflix, instructions on a method of installing it via PPA are detailed here http://www.iheartubuntu.com/2012/11/ppa-for-netflix-desktop-app.html - If you need support,please contact the developer through the comments section on that page.
[09:08] <Tm_T> ikonia: hm?
[09:51] <ikonia> ?
[09:58] <IdleOne> probably wondering why you reversed the edit on that factoid
[10:01] <ikonia> why would we point people to a random channel ?
[10:02] <IdleOne> I agree with you on that.
[10:28] <Tm_T> ikonia: I agree, still providing the edit reason is good (:
[10:30] <ikonia> where ?
[10:30] <ikonia> where do I provide the edit reason ?
[10:30] <Tm_T> for example here where you did the edit
[10:31] <ikonia> oh, I didn't see an edit reason applying the change, so I thought undoing it was pretty clear
[10:31] <ikonia> as it's on the same line
[10:31] <ikonia> (as in one line under the update)
[10:32] <Tm_T> when the channel was added to the factoid, there was context, the conversation, that provided information what was done and why
[10:32] <IdleOne> I think that when we add channel names to factoids we need to be reasonably certain that it is a channel we feel comfortable sending ubuntu users to where they won't be treated badly, etc.
[10:32] <ikonia> yes, and I undid it
[10:33] <ikonia> Tm_T: I was going to speak to Jussi about it privatly
[10:33] <ikonia> and also the council as that edit request had been made before, and not implemented, so why it should be implemented after a second request when nothing is changed I don't know
[10:33] <Tm_T> awww, my work stuff spilling to IRC, I just had lenghty discussion about communication here at the office, including commit messages etc
[10:33] <ikonia> there needs to be a process for editing the factoids rather than "I'll just do it"
[10:34] <ikonia> it needs to get some sort of approval
[10:34] <ikonia> I don't mean some sort of crazy drawn out meeting about it
[10:34] <ikonia> but $something
[10:34] <Unit193> Well, main question I see: Is there support provided for it in #ubuntu ?
[10:35] <IdleOne> There are edits like the above one where some discussion would have been good.
[10:35] <AlanBell> well they kind of get edited here, so people can see that happening
[10:35] <Tm_T> ^
[10:35] <Tm_T> I want to see factoids as easy mean for participation
[10:35] <AlanBell> except when I do them and it takes 15 attempts to get it right so I do that part in PM
[10:35] <Tm_T> AlanBell: haha
[10:35] <ikonia> IdleOne: there had alrady been discussion on it
[10:36] <ikonia> and it didn't get updated as that channel is just one guy nothing to do with the PPA trying to support it and basically wanted traffic pointed at "his channel"
[10:36] <ikonia> so just making the same request again and then getting updated, is why I undid it
[10:36] <ikonia> Unit193: no more / less than any other PPA
[10:36] <IdleOne> ikonia: I'm just using this latest edit request as an example of the type of edits I think should be discussed, didn't mean to imply there hadn't been any :)
[10:37] <AlanBell> tbh I feel the current discussion is evidence that the factoid editing and approval process we have is working :)
[10:37] <ikonia> it is if people don't just updated them randomly
[10:38] <ikonia> if I hadn't noticed it AND had prior awareness of the previous discussion it would have just been left updated
[10:38] <IdleOne> there are edit requests which are obviously a NO and then there are the ones that are This is a good idea.  Edit requests that point to channels or iffy info or anything else that one might not be sure of. We talk about .
[10:39]  * AlanBell wonders if there is an easy way to find all the factoids that point to channels that don't start with #ubuntu
[10:40] <IdleOne> Anyway, Tm_T plz2not bring your work home to us kthnx  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
[10:41] <ikonia> Tm_T: raises a fair point on the commit message on the factoid
[10:41] <IdleOne> AlanBell: I doubt there are many and the ones that do exist I think mostly have to do with $distro Go there for support.
[10:42] <jussi> Wait, I don't get why we shouldnt point at that channel?  and can someone give me logs of this previous discussion I havent yet seen?
[10:43] <jussi> IdleOne: actually there are a bunch - I remember in the past we had compiz factoid pointing at the compiz channel...
[10:43] <jussi> !compix
[10:43] <AlanBell> !compiz
[10:43] <jussi> !compiz
[10:43] <jussi> still does...
[10:43] <AlanBell> !derivatives
[10:43] <AlanBell> !eee
[10:43] <ikonia> jussi: yeah, because it was filled with people who staffed the compiz project
[10:43] <IdleOne> jussi: My main concern is that we make sure the channels are actual support channels and not just a round about way for a new channel to get some free advertising
[10:44] <ikonia> or "good" support
[10:44] <ikonia> the official ubuntu channel pointing it to one guy trying his best in a channel.....Hmmmm
[10:44] <AlanBell> !fcm
[10:44] <ikonia> I think not
[10:44] <ikonia> AlanBell: does that still exist ?
[10:44] <jussi> yeah, but the guy said the actul maintainer is there often...
[10:44] <ikonia> jussi: I've not seen him join
[10:44] <ikonia> and if the maintainer is there and wants to support it, surly he can ask for the channel
[10:45] <ikonia> scince I checked on it last time
[10:45] <ikonia> ls
[10:45] <ikonia> oops
[10:45] <AlanBell> ikonia: dunno, was searching the factoid database and got from #a to #f now bored.
[10:45] <ikonia> AlanBell: looks like it does
[10:45] <IdleOne> I'm not against the idea of letting people know of non-ubuntu channels
[10:45] <ikonia>  !compiz is a good example of a valid re-direct
[10:48] <ikonia> a good example of that is if that was eagles making that request to direct people to that channel would you have made it so quickly ?
[10:55] <jussi> ikonia: do you have a log of the discussion?
[10:55] <jussi> I think most of us havent seen it
[10:58] <ikonia> jussi: I don't have it to hand, it was approx 1 week ago in this channel, I'll see if I can dig it out
[11:03] <jussi> ikonia: I dont see any discussion except a minor one between you and pici...?
[11:04] <jussi> ikonia: and fwiw, the ehoover guy is in the channel currently...
[11:04] <ikonia> there was another, was it in ops-discuss
[11:04] <ikonia> jussi: I'm not in the channel at the moment, but he never joined while I was there
[11:04] <jussi> ikonia: Im there at the moment, and he is present (but away currently)
[11:04] <ikonia> that's better than before
[11:06] <jussi> I really have no problems with adding the channel. Its a ppa, therefore no support in #u. There is a channel, with the guy who wrote it present there... seems pretty correct channel to me...
[11:07] <ikonia> I do
[11:07] <ikonia> it's a PPA so we don't support
[11:07] <ikonia> pushing it off to a random channel with no history and where the guy who wrote it hasn't been present, doesn't seem correct to me
[11:08] <ikonia> also you can help people with PPA's in ubuntu
[11:08] <ikonia> but I admit this one will be a hunk of junk to try to work with in #ubuntu
[11:09] <jussi> ikonia: its a new product, where do they get "history" from?
[11:09] <ikonia> time
[11:09] <ikonia> a proven support record
[11:09] <ikonia> do you know this guy ?
[11:10] <ikonia> do you know his attitude/availability to support
[11:10] <ikonia> do you know how long the products going to be maintainered
[11:10] <ikonia> mainted
[11:10] <ikonia> maintained
[11:10] <IdleOne> What if someone asks the PPA maintainer if they are planning on using that channel to provide support and that #ubuntu would be happy to send users their way?
[11:10] <ikonia> to be honest, the PPA page is pretty clear on the details
[11:11] <ikonia> if people can't find/read them, they are not going to be savy enough to follow support instructions
[11:11] <jussi> ikonia: how is it anydifferent than sending them to the comments section of a rand webpage?
[11:11] <ikonia> we don't do that
[11:11] <jussi> !netflix
[11:11] <jussi> ^^^
[11:11] <ikonia> get rid of it
[11:11] <ikonia> point it at the PPA page
[11:11] <jussi> ...
[11:11] <IdleOne> the comment section on a blog post is hardly the best place to provide any help. I am guessing he does want to try and built some sort of community around his new product
[11:11] <ikonia> I hate 3rd party links like that
[11:12] <ikonia> point it at the developers email address
[11:12] <ikonia> that way he can write some support stuff properly or get bombarded with emails
[11:16] <IdleOne> bombarding someones email is a good way for us to be helpful ?
[11:16] <jussi> however, I suggest 2 things. 1 - in the channel it says official support to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/netflix-desktop - lets put that there, and add "IRC community in #netflix-desktop
[11:16] <ikonia> we don't we just do nothing
[11:16] <ikonia> it's not our problem
[11:17] <ikonia> IdleOne: it's not helpful, but neither is writing a complex process and just throwing it out into the wild with no documentation (that I can see) or support
[11:17] <IdleOne> it isn't an ubuntu issue I agree but neither is !mint or any other of the other factoids we point people to other channels with, but we still have those factoids because we still want to be helpful even if we don't provide the support
[11:17] <ikonia> jussi: in which channel does it say that ?
[11:18] <jussi> #netflix-desktop...
[11:18] <ikonia> ok - so then lets point at the official PPA page
[11:18] <ikonia> and then it's up to the maintainer to put whatever information HE wants on it
[11:18] <ikonia> ticks all the boxes
[11:19] <ikonia> IdleOne: those factoids point at the official channels
[11:19] <ikonia> rather than a channel someone wants
[11:20] <jussi> !windows
[11:20] <ikonia> we should get rid of "bug 1" from that
[11:20] <ikonia> it's sad
[11:20] <IdleOne> what exactly makes one channel official and other not. This is a new "project" for lack of a better word.
[11:20] <ikonia> IdleOne: that is an interesting question.
[11:21] <ikonia> normally official is what the projects sets, eg: mint say "this is our channel"
[11:21] <ikonia> but ##windows is a good example of that not being the case
[11:21] <ikonia> jussi: I have no idea why you are so keen to push people to this random channel
[11:21] <IdleOne> the maintainer is in the channel, maybe not 24/7 but he is in there now.
[11:21] <ikonia> but I suggest just linking to the official page and let the people who maintain the project maintain that page with what ever info they want
[11:22] <jussi> ikonia: random channel? the maintainer is there...
[11:22] <ikonia> jussi: he's not been there for over a week
[11:23] <ikonia> is there a problem with pointing at the official page ?
[11:23] <Tm_T> why don't you toss the whole work of figuring out how the support happens to him instead?
[11:23] <ikonia> Tm_T: exactly
[11:23] <ikonia> point at the official page, if he wants to make that the official channel, he can update the page to say "support in here"
[11:24] <ikonia> or whatever he wants
[11:24] <jussi> ok, so lets do that for every other factoid also, compiz, mint everything... its about convenience and pointing people to where the community is.
[11:25] <ikonia> jussi: they have official pages/channels
[11:25] <ikonia> pointing at the offical page for this project would mirror that
[11:25] <jussi> so if the guy goes there and says that is the channel on that page you would add it?
[11:25] <ikonia> but if you want to ruin other factoids to try to prove a point go for it
[11:25] <ikonia> remove the #mint links
[11:25] <ikonia> jussi: probably yes
[11:26] <ikonia> but I suggest we follow your tact or wrecking other factoids
[11:26] <jussi> ...
[11:26] <ikonia> that seems a sensible way to prove a point
[11:26] <IdleOne> man.
[11:26] <IdleOne> I'm done. This war is not worth the bullets.
[11:26] <ikonia> I'll get right on that
[11:27] <ikonia> it's not even a war
[11:27] <ikonia> I don't get the massive need to point someone to a channel that's got no history and no documentation around the projet
[11:27] <ikonia> rather than just point at the proper page and let the maintainer maintain it
[11:28] <ikonia> we don't have aot have a factoid for everything, there doesn't have to be a channel for everything
[11:28] <IdleOne> the mint channel is on a completely different network and we point to it. When they first got started, they had no history.
[11:28] <ikonia> they did
[11:29] <IdleOne> There does need to be factoids for FAQ's like this netflix one
[11:29] <ikonia> the mint project said "this is our channel, this is where we are doing support"
[11:30] <ikonia> why don't we point people who want to use bad language and a wider topic in the #ubuntu world at club-ubuntu ?
[11:30] <ikonia> that's a community, that points people at what they want
[11:30] <jussi> and this is not the official support channel for the netflix thing. but I dont think that actually effects us pointing people to a place that there is community
[11:30] <ikonia> to follow jussi's point of putting people in the community
[11:30] <IdleOne> because they do a good enough job recruting people without our help
[11:30] <ikonia> great, I'll make a club-ubuntu factoid now
[11:31] <ikonia> "want to talk about ubuntu where bad language is acceptable, use this channel"
[11:31] <ikonia> that's where there is a community
[11:31] <jussi> ikonia: because it doesnt fit with our value set/coc to do that.
[11:31] <ikonia> jussi: does this channel ?
[11:31] <ikonia> jussi: does compiz ?
[11:32] <ikonia> jussi: does mint ?
[11:32] <ikonia> point your factoid at the channel thus giving it the #ubuntu seal of approval
[11:33] <ikonia> it seems your going to do it anyway so just get on with it
[11:33] <jussi> Im going to do what?
[11:33] <ikonia> the one man council is back in action
[11:34] <ikonia> just get on with it, this is tedious now
[11:34] <Tm_T> ikonia: please, enough
[11:34] <jussi> ...
[11:35] <Tm_T> ikonia: it's one thing to discuss about the issue at hand and another to go and attack persons
[11:35] <ikonia> it wasn't a discussion
[11:36] <ikonia> it was a brick wall
[11:36] <ikonia> so I'm done with it
[11:36] <ikonia> put it back to the channel
[11:36] <ikonia> apparantly no discussion is needed
[11:36] <ikonia> I'll create some factoids I feel are useful too
[11:36] <Tm_T> ikonia: then why on earth you're still going on it? especially on that attitude
[11:36] <ikonia> I'm not, I've just said "I'm done with it, it's tedious"
[11:36] <ikonia> I've not mentioned it since then
[16:33] <bazhang>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
[16:33] <bazhang>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
[16:33] <bazhang>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
[16:33] <bazhang>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
[16:33] <bazhang>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
[16:33] <bazhang> oy sorry
 it is an astrology software based on sql server 2005 service pack 1 windows
[16:35] <Pici> astrology is serious business
[16:35] <bazhang> hehe
[17:13] <bazhang> rhin0 in #xubuntu
[18:33] <bazhang> just run the command!
[18:34] <IdleOne> juniour is no help at all, he glosses over the question
[18:34] <IdleOne> miss key parts of what the user is asking for
[18:34] <IdleOne> misses
[18:35] <IdleOne> or maybe it's me
[18:36] <bazhang> no
[18:36] <bazhang> he's like a bad repeater bot with lag
[19:28] <Noskcaj> what happened to floodbot 2?
[19:30] <IdleOne> probably taking a baop
[19:30] <IdleOne> nap*
[19:32] <Noskcaj> ok?
[19:32] <IdleOne> looks like the host is down
[19:33] <IdleOne> it'll hopefully be back up soon
[19:34] <IdleOne> Noskcaj: Was there anything else?
[19:34] <Noskcaj> nope, bye
[20:26] <IdleOne> !es > juan1
[22:01] <phunyguy_t430s> is downloading youtube videos and asking how to do it in #ubuntu a /bad/ thing?
[22:01] <phunyguy_t430s> I don't want to tell someone the wrong thing.
[22:02] <tsimpson> in general I think it's fine
[22:03] <tsimpson> it would depend on the permissions/license of the specific video, but in general
[22:03] <phunyguy_t430s> ok.  Thanks.
[23:32] <jrib> interesting... ubottu.com is saying "Sorry, bantracker is not available for anonymous users" even though I used @btlogin for a link
[23:32] <jrib> suddenly it works :)