/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/12/11/#xubuntu.txt

=== mnepton is now known as mneptok
=== azeam is now known as azeam_afk
versailleshi, i'm new to xubuntu, anyone can recommend me with any scp/sftp client like winscp ?00:44
versailleso never mind, gftp good enough :D00:46
xubuntu508flash03:06
YaNPlease , say me system requriments to xubuntu and(or) ubuntu?08:08
=== RaringOne is now known as IdleOne
=== burn_ is now known as burn
VividRealityGood morning.10:53
VividRealityI am trying to use my midi keyboard with lmms, is this possible? I don't know where to start.10:54
VividRealityThe problem is that it doesn't show up in the devices list.10:55
VividRealityIs there a list with connected hardware somewhere? I am wondering if Xubuntu sees it at all.10:56
VividRealityAh, they do not support linux. Time to buy a different keyboard then....11:03
ZelouilleVividReality, If you're using Jack server (jackd), you can probably do this within the Jack control window (qjackctl)11:13
Zelouillepatchage seems to work without jackd : http://drobilla.net/software/patchage/11:34
rhin0where are panel applets located12:44
=== azeam_afk is now known as azeam
salepetronijeHello. I worked on the translation xfce 4:10 in Serbian. Translation not included upstream. Because we were late. Is it possible to pack the Serbian in Xubuntu? I'll give links to transifx xfce where the officially unofficial translation, if it is possible to do.13:47
salepetronijehttps://translations.xfce.org/languages/l/sr/13:49
GridCubesalepetronije, please ask on #xubuntu-devel13:55
salepetronijethank you13:58
webmindhiya14:31
webmindI've got an odd problem14:31
webmindIf I run crossoveroffice + office 2010 on XFCE, I get focus problems and the mouse often stops responding14:32
webmindneither can I then click on the panel14:32
webmindsadly enough it doesn't get more exacter then that14:32
TheSheepwe don't support microsoft software :(14:32
webmindbut this does not happen lxde14:32
webmindTheSheep, considering it only happens xfce it might not be a microsoft issue14:33
webmindand I do asume people want to fix anything that's broken if it's in xfce?14:33
TheSheepwebmind: you can try changing the "draw overlay windows directly" option in the compositor tab in the window manager tweaks14:33
TheSheepwebmind: and see if that helps14:34
webmind"display fullscreen overlay windows directly" <- that one?14:34
TheSheepwebmind: yes14:34
webmindtesting14:35
webmindwoohoo14:35
webmindthat seems to fix it14:35
TheSheepexcellent14:35
webmindthnx!14:35
webmindTheSheep, is the option called 'unredirect_overlays' ?14:47
webmindyep, looks like it.14:47
webmindgood14:47
Fieldyhello, what's the proper way to have an iptables command executed after the network interface(s) are up and after the rest of the rules have already gone up?15:07
Fieldy(on boot)15:07
GridCubeFieldy, you might get better (or faster) answers on #ubuntu-server , you are welcome to wait for someone to answer here though :)15:10
FieldyGridCube: ok, thanks for the pointer15:12
GridCube:) its not that im kicking you or anything, i just think that would be more useful for you Fieldy15:12
Fieldyoh i know, i appreciate it15:13
GridCube:)15:13
ramirohello everybody!15:23
GridCubehi15:25
qasimhello16:00
baizon!hi | qasim16:00
ubottuqasim: Hi!, Welcome to #xubuntu! Feel free to ask questions and help people out. The channel guidelines are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines. Enjoy your stay!16:00
qasimhi baizon16:00
qasimand ubot16:00
qasimi downloaded iso image of xubuntu  and burned it over a DVD.. i can try xubuntu from it but when i try to install my computer hangs16:01
qasimwhat could be the possible problem?16:02
holsteini might look into the hard drive.. i might wipe it and test it..16:03
qasimhello holstein16:04
GridCubethere could be many many possible problems, first try to check that the dvd you burned its correct, do this by comparing its md516:04
GridCube!md516:04
ubottuTo verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows16:04
GridCubeqasim, ^^16:04
qasimi tried it ..as per md5 my io image integrity is fine16:04
qasimiso image*16:05
qasimshould i format the hard drive and try to intall the xubuntu again?16:06
holsteinqasim: i would test the drive... format and reinstall is not a bad idea16:10
rhin0wondeirng why i can't find libxfce4ui-1-dev on xubuntu 10.04 any more16:10
rhin0need it16:10
qasimtest the drive ..but how?16:10
qasimi formatting in linux is like formating in windows?16:11
holsteinqasim: there are tools from live CD's... i use gparted for formatting16:11
rhin0libxfce4ui-1-dev16:12
qasimcan i use gparted while trying xubuntu through CD?16:12
holsteinqasim: sure.. or a live CD such as the ultimate boot cd16:13
qasimoh okay16:13
qasimthanks16:13
holsteinrhin0: maybe http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=xfce416:15
rhin0ta16:15
qasimthrough Gparted i can there is a partition of drive which is unknown to the system..im gonna delete it and create new partition16:16
qasimwhat extentsion should i use?16:16
holsteinqasim: might be a windows recovery partition or something you might want/need16:17
qasimno ..goodbye to windows16:18
qasimtotally16:18
holsteinqasim: what would i do? load up a live diagnostic cd and test the drive.. i would expect a test like that to takea hour or so16:18
holsteinqasim: i would just wipe the drive and let the installer format as needed16:18
qasimhmmm16:18
qasimwell but im going to format it16:19
qasimits asking me file system16:19
qasimwhich one should i use?16:19
phunyguy_hmmmm, so I tried to install Gwibber in Xubuntu 12.10, and when I try to add accounts, it must be tied in with Ubuntu online accounts integration stuffs. It just gives me a gnome-settings window with only a few things in it, none of them being "Online Accounts" or anything having to do with Gwibber.16:19
rhin0Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libxfce4ui-1-0 (= 4.8.1-1)16:19
rhin0I get16:19
rhin0no idea what that means16:19
holsteinqasim: do what you like... but the installer will format.. what would i do? not format.. test.. if you want to format, format ext or whatver16:19
phunyguy_is there an alternative microblogging app that support facebook/twitter/etc?16:20
qasimokay thanks16:20
holsteinrhin0: means that package is not satisfiable.. what are you trying to do?16:20
rhin0trying to install   libxfce4ui-1-dev  on xubuntu 10.0416:20
rhin0that used to be availabel by sudo apt-get16:20
holsteinrhin0: no.. what are you trying to install that is requiring that16:20
rhin0kbleds16:21
rhin0applet16:21
rhin0xfce4-kbdleds-plugin-xfce4-kbdleds-plugin-0.0.616:21
=== phunyguy_ is now known as phunyguy_t430s
rhin0can't even get a keyboard led plugin anymore16:21
rhin0the one someone gave me .deb is just a joke16:21
rhin0its bypassing panel - can't even get rid of it16:21
holsteinrhin0: it? what?16:21
rhin0I have bug that stops me using 12.04 nobody addresses it - major bug -x2x doesn't work16:22
Picix2x?16:22
holsteinrhin0: what bug?16:22
rhin0x2x doesn't work on 12.0416:22
rhin0allows you to control cursor over multiple desktops16:22
holsteinrhin0: you'll need to choose what you want me or one of the other volunteers to help with16:22
Picirhin0: You can't blindly take a package from one release and install it on an older release.16:22
holsteinrhin0: what i would do is deal with 12.0416:22
rhin0right16:22
rhin0i've filed a bug16:22
rhin0its just ignored16:22
qasimholstein doesnt like "its"..you got to elaborate lol16:22
holsteinrhin0: we deal with bugs.. you and me.. the community..16:23
holsteinrhin0: what would you like to do with it? would you mind linking it up?16:23
rhin0 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x2x/+bug/106690616:23
ubottuUbuntu bug 1066906 in x2x (Ubuntu) "x2x does not work with xubuntu 12.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]16:23
rhin0so now things deteriorate on 10.0416:24
knomelooks like x2x got its last update 3 years ago, and the last stable release was 9 years ago.16:24
rhin0if I could libxfce4ui-1-dev  things would be ok (install that)16:24
rhin0can't anymore16:24
rhin0im staying with 10.0416:24
rhin0thats a basic thing (x2x)16:25
holsteinrhin0: ? whats a basic thing?16:25
rhin0x 2 x16:25
holsteinrhin0: im not following you. but lets try and stay constructive16:25
holsteinrhin0: this is all open.. if we/you need things can be built and implemented. let me look and see what i used in 10.04 for led repacements16:26
Picirhin0: is it stuck where the unity bar is, or is it stuck on 1 pixel on the left?16:26
rhin0i just need my keyboard led16:26
rhin0applet16:26
rhin0i don't use unity I use xubuntu 10.0416:26
PiciOh, right. Forgot what channel I was in.16:26
holsteinrhin0: i used to use lock-keys-applet in 10.0416:28
rhin0on xubuntu?16:28
rhin0thats gnome16:28
holsteinrhin0: sure.. it should work though.. have you tried?16:28
rhin0trying16:28
rhin0II T says its installed but doesn't appear on the panel list of applets16:28
rhin0do ~I have to restart the panel16:29
holsteinrhin0: relax... i have a 10.04 install i can load up and help with this..16:29
rhin0ta16:30
rhin0sudo apt-get install lock-keys-applet is installed16:30
rhin0i restarted panel still can't see applet16:32
holsteinrhin0: correct.. i didnt mean to imply you needed to restart.. you'll just need to be as patient as you possibly can be16:33
rhin0well its installed16:33
rhin0how do I get it on the panel16:33
holsteinrhin0: not many people have your software setup.. nor your needs.. so i am researching a solution.. and i can fire up my old 10.04 install. install xfce and test some things16:34
rhin0ta16:34
rhin0thanks v much16:34
holsteinrhin0: the answer to "how do i get it on the panel" is to please wait on myself or one of the other volunteers to sort that out16:34
holsteini remember implementing that in 10.04 on my eee in gnome.. then i just stopped bothering with it.. i currently dont have any16:35
rhin0trying this http://askubuntu.com/questions/66181/how-do-i-enable-the-globalmenu-appmenu-on-xfce16:35
rhin0i may have found one16:40
rhin0in synaptic16:40
rhin0looks like its downloading gnome (91 packages) .. whatever16:41
holsteinrhin0: looks like the PPA you are trying is not for 10.0416:42
holsteinrhin0: i would have a look at your sources and disable anything that you have added that might "break" things16:42
holsteini would run sudo apt-get update and see that that completes with no errors16:42
rhin0ok16:43
holsteinthis looks nice rhin0 http://blog.treellama.org/2011/01/genmon-numlockpy.html16:43
rhin0a python applet16:44
rhin0i had one -- but will it suck up processor16:44
rhin0resource heavy16:44
rhin0no way i'm using that16:44
rhin0that is uugly16:44
rhin0this is ridiculous16:45
rhin0i;'ve been asking this quesiton for 2 years now16:46
rhin0periodically16:46
rhin0you get a fix then it stops working16:46
rhin0basic facility16:46
holsteinrhin0: sure.. but its not a bug.. its not broken16:47
holsteinrhin0: you could ask the vendor of your hardware to provide the functionality16:47
holsteinrhin0: you could use that python app with custom images16:47
rhin0its a python app16:47
rhin0no16:47
holsteinrhin0: you could move on to 12.0416:47
rhin0i told you16:47
holsteinrhin0: sure.. but the answer is *never* really no.. you can choose not to though16:47
rhin0)nobody addresses the bug (x2x16:47
rhin0can't use it16:47
webmindTheSheep, ok, the problem is back.. so didn't solve it in the end it seems16:47
holsteinrhin0: sure.. but you and i could address the bug.. its not a bug that you dont have led's16:48
rhin0basic facilities.16:48
rhin0maybe I just forget about xubuntu16:48
rhin0ubuntu16:48
holsteinrhin0: i dont think so.. its software that is not working for you..16:48
holsteinrhin0: sure. thats an option.. run gnome in 10.0416:48
rhin0no.16:48
holsteinrhin0: you'll need to be open to some work-arounds and experiementing16:54
rhin0spending 1/2 a day trying to get a keyboar dindicator makes me think of ditching ubuntu16:55
holsteinrhin0: sure. but this is not an ubuntu or linux issue.. your hardware is not providing you feedback16:55
rhin0many pcs don't have keybaord lights16:55
rhin0most OS s have basic facitlity of keyboard indicator16:55
holsteinrhin0: i found comfortable work arounds, and eventually decided i dont need the feedback16:55
rhin0i'll probably give up16:56
rhin0put up with it16:56
holsteinrhin0: sure16:56
rhin0just extra stress16:56
holsteinrhin0: i have found no stress from it personally16:56
rhin0riught16:56
rhin0its ridiculous16:56
rhin0basic issues never addressed16:56
holsteinrhin0: you can always link the bugs and get involved16:56
holsteinthats why i would move on to 12.04. or 13.10 even16:57
rhin0i told you I can't16:58
rhin0im stuffed16:58
holsteinrhin0: you are choosing not to, and that fine.. but you must understand.. 10.04 is scheduled EOL soon16:58
holsteinrhin0: you will find it challenging to get anyone to seriously look at any UI bugs that didnt ship with 10.0416:59
rhin0thats ubuntu - if you get a solution at all it'll be partial ..17:11
rhin0if you get a solution - it;ll stop working in time17:12
rhin0nobody gives a shit17:12
holsteinrhin0: watch the language please17:12
holsteinrhin0: its a community.. i dont think you undrstand why its not being resolved17:12
rhin0all I see - googling - is multiple people asking same question (no resolution)17:12
holsteinrhin0: its not shipped with 10.04, and 10.04 is going to be EOL soon17:13
rhin0its not being resolved becasus there is no market impetus to resolve it17:13
rhin0its never been fixed17:13
holsteinrhin0: there is the python one that you dont like17:13
holsteinrhin0: its not broken17:13
rhin0i can't use 12.04 because things dont' work with it17:13
rhin0use a ridiculous python script17:13
holsteinrhin0: sure.. but you'll need to elaborate on what doent work17:13
rhin0x2x17:14
rhin0i showed the bug17:14
holsteinrhin0: ridicuolous is a matter of optinion17:14
holsteinrhin0: im not a coder, and i didnt see you link the bug actually17:14
holsteinrhin0: if you do, i'll take a look17:14
qasimby the way is there any method to use ms office through linux?17:14
bazhangqasim, wine17:15
FrEaKmAn_hi.. im using 12.10 and its all the time crashing.. I guess it's xcfe.. I cannot switch between programs, mouse icon is X17:15
phunyguy_t430sI seem to have broken xfce4-power-manager, or installed /something else/ that is taking over.  I go to power settings in the settings manager and it tells me that the xfce4-power-manager is not running and asks to start it.  that does nothing. If I run it from a command line with --no-daemon - it gives me an error stating that another power manager is running, and I can't figure out what it is.  Little help would be much appreciated, thanks.17:15
holsteinFrEaKmAn_: i would confirm that it is xfce.. are you running xubuntu?17:15
FrEaKmAn_holstein: yes17:15
qasimwhine I TRIED WINE ONCE BUT IT was not working well with ms office applications17:15
phunyguy_t430sas some background, I tried to install Gwibber, and I'm sure that pulled in some gnome-deps17:16
holsteinqasim: nothing ubuntu/linux doest prevents microsoft from providing a native office version17:16
qasimsorry i dint get you hol17:17
qasimhmm17:17
holsteinqasim: anyone can create a native linux application. microsoft could provide you with a native application..17:18
qasimwell but ms doesnot..17:18
Tm_Tofcourse17:19
FrEaKmAn_holstein: any ideas?17:20
rhin0look this actually works17:23
rhin0will put up with it http://www.webupd8.org/2010/07/indicator-keylock-displays-keyboard.html17:23
rhin0sorry17:23
rhin0its just distracting17:23
rhin0brings up a big thing that gets in the way17:23
rhin0horirble17:23
rhin0but hey17:23
rhin0its 100x better than windows17:23
holsteinFrEaKmAn_: i would try a different user, to take the config out of the equation17:24
rhin0found out -- what it is is notify messages .. how do i disable notify messages17:28
rhin0thats what it is17:28
rhin0notify17:28
rhin0all the time notify notify17:28
rhin0its horrible17:28
rhin0TOP right big ugly bar - whenever something happens17:29
rhin0covering stuff17:29
rhin0how do I get rid17:29
rhin0its all the time17:29
rhin0sudo apt-get remove notify-osd  just tried this17:30
rhin0will reboot brb17:30
holsteinrhin0: i changed notifiations.. and i use a compositor.. *everything* is customizable.. if you can, try and say what you want.. "horrible" is a matter of opinion17:30
rhin0i want to LOSE notifications17:30
holsteinrhin0: i just installed the other notifier i wanted17:30
rhin0not change them - turn them off17:30
rhin0no I don't want them at all17:30
holsteinrhin0: maybe  just dont use the xfce panel.. if you dont want much from it17:30
rhin0no17:30
rhin0I need the panel17:31
holsteinrhin0: there a plenty of options17:31
holsteinrhin0: no?17:31
rhin0not notificaitons17:31
rhin0so I have to like disable the panel to stop notifications?17:31
holsteinrhin0: sure.. you can use a different panel that might fit your needs better17:31
holsteinrhin0: correct.. and that is one meathod i am proposing17:31
rhin0HOW DO i TIRN OFF NOFIFICATIONS?17:31
holsteinrhin0: no caps please17:31
holstein!patents | rhin017:31
holstein!patience | rhin017:32
ubotturhin0: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/17:32
rhin0im getting htat in notification17:32
rhin0why?17:32
rhin0its horrible17:32
holsteinrhin0: i think if you want to remove that package, it will want to remove the desktop17:32
holsteinrhin0: horrible is a matter of opinion17:32
rhin0no more notificaitons17:33
rhin0ty17:33
rhin0removing that package = removed notification "daemon"17:34
rhin0has solved problem with caps lock indicator17:34
rhin0i just didn't connect the problem with being "notifications"17:34
rhin0had tried to disable them in the past17:34
rhin0ty17:34
rhin0too helpful IMO = bad17:34
rhin0messages all over the place17:34
mneptokrhin0: all this complaining and you still have not found the Notifications icon in the system settings?17:37
holsteinrhin0: everything is open in this way.. you are not only able to, but encouraged to customize. you are also a bit "on your own" when you deviate from the default experience17:37
rhin0i only just saw to rejmove that packagte17:40
rhin0through gui too?17:40
holsteinrhin0: sure.. "that" package? what gui?17:40
rhin0xfce417:40
holsteinrhin0: you removed xfce?17:42
rhin0no17:43
rhin0i remofved the notification daemon ty17:43
holsteinthats what i was thinking.. it'll be tied into the desktop17:43
holsteinrhin0: ty?17:43
rhin0thankyou17:44
holsteinrhin0: thankyou?17:44
holsteinrhin0: are you saying you removed notifications and that removed xfce4?17:44
rhin0no - I just removed notifcaitons17:45
holsteinhttp://shoaibmir.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/disable-notification-systems-in-ubuntu/ should work as well17:46
rhin0that didn't actually work on xubuntu17:47
userzeroxHi there! How do i install Mediterranean Night theme in xubuntu. I have downloaded all the necessary files. Here's the link to the list of files i have downloaded.http://customizemania.com/daily-mania-mediterranean-night-xfce/17:47
rhin0sudo mv /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.xfce.xfce4-notifyd.Notifications.service /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.xfce.xfce4-notifyd.Notifications.service.disabled -- failed17:47
rhin0thanks anyway holstein17:47
rhin0had to flail around a bit before I understood it wasn notficaitns (was my problem)17:48
holsteinrhin0: sure.. enjoy... let me or one of the other volunteers now if you have a support query17:48
rhin0ty17:48
rhin0i support too on occasion17:48
Tm_Tholstein: well done (:17:49
holsteinTm_T: :)17:50
holsteinuserzerox: you have referred to http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/appearance ?17:54
userzeroxholstein: This is a new theme i have downloaded. Shouldn't i be installing first before selecting from appearance tab?17:56
GridCubeuserzerox, uncompress it to ~/.themes17:57
holsteinuserzerox: that should help you sort out where to put the files, depending one how it is to be installed17:57
userzeroxholstein: thanks17:57
userzeroxGridCube: Thanks17:58
phunyguy_workI seem to have broken xfce4-power-manager, or installed /something else/ that is taking over.  I go to power settings in the settings manager and it tells me that the xfce4-power-manager is not running and asks to start it.  that does nothing. If I run it from a command line with --no-daemon - it gives me an error stating that another power manager is running, and I can't figure out what it is.18:10
phunyguy_workI did find out that it is in fact gnome-related, and I disabled gnome services startup in session manager, but I am afraid of what else that will break because it was already checked.18:11
rhin0 maybe to ps -ef  (or 'top') command -- you will see what programs are running18:13
rhin0maybe do18:13
rhin0ps -ef | less gives you a scrolleable list of the apps you are running (from the bash shell) .. "top" gives you another scrollable list of what apps take up most cpu (top down)18:14
rhin0theres a lot of them, but maybe you can see what power manager is running .. maybe in it you can see "gnome" string to identify gnome app .. "ps -ef | grep string <- replace string with "gnome" for instance would give you a list of all gnome apps18:15
rhin0phunyguy_18:15
rhin0phunyguy_work18:15
rhin0sounds like you do need to stop the non-standard power manager18:16
rhin0whenever you install something "gnome" it seems to install a whole lot of gnome (last time I did that it installed 91 packages)18:17
rhin0maybe go into synaptic and search for "power" see what app/boxes are ticked (installed)18:18
phunyguy_t430syeah I see that.  You would think if it was a gnome power manager issue, the icon would be in the gnome-control-center, which it isn't.18:18
rhin0there are places where things are started up .. startup in setup and also scripts to start things up18:18
phunyguy_t430si also checked in the xfce session manager18:19
phunyguy_t430scouldnt find anything except that gnome-services checkbox.18:19
Noskcajhow do you make a proxy universal across a xubuntu system?19:46
blackgatonegroNoskcaj, you mean making it the default proxy? most tor installs end with tor being the default proxy19:48
Noskcajyeah, so i can connect  to my school's proxy19:49
blackgatonegrohttp://askubuntu.com/questions/6943/how-can-a-proxy-be-set-for-the-whole-xubuntu-system19:52
Noskcajthanks19:55
Noskcajok, so is there no gui?19:55
drcI was reading in another distro's forum (salix, if you really must know) that the xfce Mail Watcher does not build against xfce 4.10, but iirc, xubuntu 12.10 has it (right now I'm on 12.04, so I can't check it).  Can someone confirm my recollection (or confirm the statement that it doesn't build against 4.10) ?20:00
drc nevermind, I just grabbed the 12.10 iso and burnt an USB stick, so I'll check myself :)20:23
=== drc is now known as Guest60988
Guest60988Hi there :)  To answer my own question, yes 12.10 <does> have xfce's Mail Watcher.20:29
Guest60988But I've noticed another problem, xfce's Weather Update appears <not> to allow one to use the Search Location function...(I've noticed this on 2 xfce 4.10 distros.  Can any one check this on their 12.10/4.10 install ?20:33
GridCubeGuest60988, can confirm that20:36
Guest60988thanks GridCube20:36
Guest60988Wonder what's the problem with it, must be upstream...I'll check there later, after I boot back to 12.10.20:37
Guest60988opps, 12.0420:38
* Guest60988 hates upgrades...something I use <always> breaks :(20:38
johnz0rhi :)20:49
johnz0rI just upgraded from 11.10 to 12.10 and this new xfce4-terminal is storing my ssh passphrase, i don't have to write it again during my session20:50
johnz0ris there a method to avoid that ?20:50
johnz0ri suppose i have to rtfm about key storing but i can't find anything20:51
phunyguy_t430shey guise... I am trying out Pidgin, and when I was at work, google talk as well as Facebook IM (both XMPP) connected just fine, but at home, I get "Server does use any supported authentication method" for both, and AIM connects just fine.21:16
phunyguy_t430sI thought maybe it was a glitch, because it happened this morning before work, and then worked fine when I got there.21:16
phunyguy_t430sthis is a fresh install, and it worked in regular Ubuntu yesterday, so something is funky....21:17
=== emma is now known as em

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