=== Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw [05:26] Riddell: No more kdegames stuff in New. I did do some more fixups on a few before acceptings. [05:26] s/acceptings/accepting/ [05:26] ScottK meant: "Riddell: No more kdegames stuff in New. I did do some more fixups on a few before accepting." [06:10] huh? [06:11] "What’s the largest desktop migration to Ubuntu so far?85,000 desktops. La Gendarmerie Nationale, part of the French police force, faced growing IT infrastructure costs and decided to review its existing Microsoft-based environment." [06:11] I thought we had way bigger [06:48] good morning [08:22] When is 4.9.5 going to be released for precise? [08:42] 4.9.5 doesn't exist yet [08:42] if you are speaking of a kde sc release [08:59] tsdgeos, I am referring to a fix for 311246. === schmidtm_ is now known as schmidtm [09:05] kde bug 311246 [09:05] KDE bug 311246 in general "Dolphin crashes when pasting files" [Crash,Resolved: fixed] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311246 [09:07] invariant: that should already be fixed in precise, do you still get the crash? [09:08] yofel_, yes === yofel_ is now known as yofel [09:09] yofel, I see that a new release has already been made. [09:09] invariant: what's the dolphin version that you have installed? [09:09] yofel, most likely that will solve it then. [09:10] please check, 4:4.9.4-0ubuntu0.1~ubuntu12.04.1~ppa2 should work [09:10] yofel, with kde-build-src, how can I set the configuration directory used (usually .kde)? [09:12] ~/.kde? That should be $KDEHOME if I remember correctly [09:13] yofel, ok, so if I just want to run one application from source, I can cp -r .kde .kdemy KDEHOME=.kdemy pathtomycompileddolphin ? [09:15] should work. But I can't really guarantee what will happen as I haven't done that in a long time [10:31] new wallpaper http://wstaw.org/m/2012/12/18/g4058-2560.png ! [10:38] so... KDE 3.2-esque? [10:39] or what it was [10:39] not bad, I like it [10:42] +1 - grey was depressive [10:47] I approve of the purple, always have since feisty [10:48] Riddell, this is the new wallp ? [10:49] that's what I said [10:53] I like how in my laptop display that purple is almost blue while on external monitor it has strong pink/purple [11:17] Hey all [11:24] ay hell === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [12:36] my system is broken [12:36] uh oh [12:36] what happened? [12:36] I have no idea [12:36] initramfs gets stuck [12:36] when doing a modprobe on i915 [12:36] totallyw eird [12:37] well, actually the modprobe seems to get stuck [12:38] http://paste.kde.org/627224/ [12:39] stupid kms [12:46] apachelogger: I had an important production environment failing to mount ext2 last week [12:46] I felt like a winner [12:55] * apachelogger sighs [13:07] Riddell: I'll be offline most of the day, but i think kde games are all done now. Would you please check and make sure there aren't any missing (i.e. rejected and not reuploaded)? [13:14] ScottK: yep, got them all synced to bzr thanks for the fixes === ronnoc_ is now known as ronnoc === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [13:28] \o [13:30] Riddell: Looking at plasma media center [13:31] Quintasan: worth a try again [13:31] ask ksinny for any help [13:31] it needs a datamodel thing from plasma active [13:31] and of course it needs nepomuk in a working state [13:33] apparently I have everything apart from QtMultimediaKit which is optional [13:34] well [13:34] it compiles [13:34] and runs [13:35] but does nothing [13:36] hmm not sure that's optional [13:36] if that's how it plays audio and video [13:36] and it needs nepomuk and thingy plasma active data model [13:37] AFAIK Nepomuk is optional [13:38] it can browse files in a traditional way to some extent [13:38] Riddell: TBH it compiled just fine without qt magic [13:39] and it didn't whine about plasma-active data model [13:39] oh [13:39] wait [13:39] what [13:39] it fixed itself [13:40] it doesn't whine [13:40] it just won't work [13:40] well [13:40] it works [13:40] somehow it started working [13:41] hmm [13:41] at first run I had only icons [13:41] and clicking on them did nothing [13:42] searching music is not as fast I wish it was [13:42] well [13:42] Riddell: Is there a public source on the web confirming the new wallpaper (which, BTW is awesome compared to the old depressing one) [13:42] it's not even beta, is it? [13:43] Riddell: Also, I have 13.04 to iron now full-time for daily use so feel free to ping me for testing, etc. :) [13:45] Riddell: I can package it but I would not put it anywhere in repos [13:45] I'd rather do a weekly build for it in PPA [13:46] new wallpapers in http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/4.10/kde-wallpapers/ [13:46] Riddell: You can't even navigate using keyboard alone or mouse alone right now [13:46] Quintasan: If you enable a PPA for PMC, ping me for testing [13:47] ronnoc: I'll remember to make use of that promise :) [13:47] ronnoc: I won't create a PPA just for it, it will be part of both project neon and I think I'll either put it in my ppa [13:47] or [13:47] ronnoc: +++++ on the old wallpaper being depressing... [13:47] Riddell: Can we put weeklies in https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/experimental? [13:48] Quintasan: well you can but since the point of that PPA is to be able to throw random things in who knows what it'll build against [13:48] * ronnoc Is willing to bet people went to Mint KDE just because the wallpaper kicked ass [13:48] ronnoc: hehe, some I guess :P [13:49] Riddell: I'll put it to staging then [13:49] jussi: :) [13:49] system fixed \o/ [13:50] Riddell, ScottK: unless I did something wrong kdm would always end up on VT8 by default [13:50] (plymouth starts on 7 and supposedly due to KMS it is considered in use by KDM, so it uses the next free one) [13:50] Quintasan: Since I'm running 13.04 no sense in me installing PN yet is there? I would just like to have a testing respoitory somewhere for it. If it's your personal one or whatever just let me know :) [13:51] Riddell: I'll look forward to it. This release is going to be hella-solid. [13:51] I think it will be in my private PPA for now [13:53] oh wait [13:53] apachelogger: how did you fix it? [13:53] ronnoc: We already have dailies for plasma-mediacenter [13:53] using Project Neon [13:54] Quintasan: That applicacable to 13.04 as well? [13:54] oh well [13:54] not really [13:54] Riddell: drop the patch [13:55] actually I just noticed that plymouth quit is async, so the init job prolly has to wait [13:55] Quintasan: that's what I thought. hence my desire for a PPA :p [13:57] apachelogger: moi? [14:04] Quintasan: the last thing I heard about the PN PMC builds was that they don't work (thanks to qtmobility). I haven't looked at it since then [14:05] Quintasan: did you follow build steps at http://www.sinny.in/node/25 ? [14:06] there's a guy has packages in blueleaflinux/ppa [14:06] Riddell: more or less [14:08] yofel: I have no idea why that compiles [14:08] yofel: libqt4-opengl-dev, shared-desktop-ontologies are required deps yet our pn package has no such things [14:09] -dev is a required dep? [14:09] kde-runtime brings in shared-desktop-ontologies [14:09] -kdelibs pulls in SDO and opengl, and qt4opengl is part of -qt [14:10] Quintasan: so it builds fine, but mobility seems to cause a mess [14:12] mmkay [14:12] Riddell: nah, me [14:15] le crap [14:15] Quintasan: using the one from blueleaflinux/ppa it has keyboard navigation [14:15] plymouth quit && plymouth --wait does not work [14:15] plymouth quit && plymouth --wait && sleep 1 does work [14:16] Riddell: Well, I don't really care about what's there, I'll ask the packager if he is going to upstream his changes [14:17] ronnoc: add ppa:quintasan/ppa and wait [14:17] ronnoc: https://code.launchpad.net/~quintasan/+recipe/plasma-mediacenter-weekly [14:18] Quintasan: I don't think he's made any changes, he's just done packages [14:18] theoretically it should build at first try [14:18] Riddell: Then he has something that upstream didn't do [14:18] cloned the repo as is, compiled and still can't navigate everything using keyboard only [14:18] for example when you browse pictures [14:19] you select one [14:19] it goes full screen [14:19] and arrows on keyboard do nothing here [14:19] oh I don't know about everywhere [14:19] that might be asking a bit much :) [14:19] really? [14:20] I though browsing through pictures using arrows and page up/down is common [14:22] it doesnt play gifs [14:24] Riddell, ScottK: so.... unless we make the upstart script sleep for one second I can always make it go to VT8 as VT7 is at that point still used by plymouth despite using plymouth --wait [14:24] opinions? [14:25] ronnoc: raring build is apparently up [14:26] Quintasan: control via keys is not a prime use case if you are designing for pointer based input devices [14:26] apachelogger: It's a freaking media canter [14:26] center* [14:26] well [14:26] You don't use a mouse to navigate that [14:26] I did not say mouse [14:26] >pointer-based [14:26] You implied it [14:27] imagine a touch screeny device DLNAing crap to your TV set or, for all intents and purposes, just sending the video signal there [14:28] would not have a physical keyboard nor would you want one in that setup [14:29] OTOH a computer wired to your TV would probably have key based input [14:29] in fact, the TV does too ^^ [14:30] so if you are designing for former you'd not care and if you were designing for latter you'd very much care === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [14:31] (seeing as former is however a very hightechy setup one gets to wonder whether it should be the target :P) [14:31] (also it implies upnp support, which we do not have) [14:31] apachelogger: we don't use kdm so I don't think it matters much and we should drop the patch [14:32] Riddell: we agreed on that already, now I am telling you that dropping the patch requires additional changes to the init job such as a sleep 1 [14:33] oh meh [14:34] Riddell, ScottK: http://paste.kde.org/627266/ [14:36] apachelogger: well yeah looks ok [14:36] * apachelogger really wonders why that sleep is needed though :( [14:42] ScottK: bug 641712 what to do? [14:42] bug 641712 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "Not possible to enter password for a new user in KDM (Maverick, Natty and Oneiric)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641712 [14:58] * Riddell adds homerun to the seed [15:01] hi ricktimmis [15:01] Hey Jonathan, how are you today ? [15:02] ca va [15:02] Tre bienne [15:02] I'm working through the MOTU docs, and getting a Dev environment setup. [15:03] Didn't look at patching Ubiquity yet to test, as wasn'y sure how to approach it, and didn't want to look daft asking. [15:03] What I mean by this is [15:03] ricktimmis: actually I put the patch in, but it still needs testing [15:03] ricktimmis: so if you can grab a daily image and test that would be uber cool [15:03] Do I patch a prebuild then make an ISO, or can I simply patch the ISO and try the installer with the new code, or am I so far off I should really go RTFM [15:04] Ah ha is it patched now in the daily build ? [15:05] ricktimmis: yes, so needs testing before anyone notices it's broken [15:05] Ah right OK, well I have today's buildin Testdrive, will do it for you now, brb [15:08] * Riddell out for a bit [15:09] shadeslayer: ping [15:18] Riddell: Since we got moved to universe, can't we just build amarok with all features? [15:24] apachelogger: ping [15:26] gotta package kdevelop [15:28] yofel: bad things will happen if I upgrade to 4.9.90? [15:28] oh well [15:29] whatever [15:29] not really [15:29] I will be installing raring anyways [15:29] INSTALL ALL THE THINGS [15:29] today should be rc1 tagging anyway [15:30] oh [15:30] so new kdevelop is in raring [15:30] but we ain't got backports [15:31] uhm, 4.4.1 is in quantal-updates - is there something newer? [15:31] it is there? [15:31] * Quintasan didn't notice it there [15:31] whatever [15:31] !info kdevelop quantal-updates [15:31] 'quantal-updates' is not a valid distribution: extras, hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, medibuntu, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, quantal, quantal-backports, quantal-proposed, raring, raring-backports, raring-proposed, stable, testing, unstable [15:31] uhuh... [15:31] !info kdevelop quantal [15:31] kdevelop (source: kdevelop): integrated development environment for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:4.3.90-0ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 1221 kB, installed size 4835 kB [15:31] See [15:31] !info kdevelop quantal-proposed [15:31] Package kdevelop does not exist in quantal-proposed [15:32] this is le broken [15:32] 4:4.4.1-0ubuntu0.1 0 [15:32] 500 http://ftp-stud.hs-esslingen.de/ubuntu/ quantal-updates/universe amd64 Packages [15:32] I believe shadeslayer broke it [15:32] mfw I started hacking on Amarok [15:32] I have absloutely no idea what I'm doing [15:32] but I pray it will work [15:33] if it doesn't then I won't be able to avoid reading docs [15:36] Pakiet: /var/cache/apt/archives/kde-l10n-pl_4%3a4.9.90-0ubuntu1~ubuntu12.10~ppa1_all.deb [15:36] Błąd: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale/pl/LC_MESSAGES/plasma_applet_printmanager.mo', which is also in package print-manager 0.2.0-0ubuntu3 [15:39] Quintasan: will you fix that or should I? [15:40] yofel: go ahead [15:41] Don't want to break the Philip Muškovac streak over there :P [15:41] Ridell: I have ISO 2012-12-18 06:42 - The fault persists, and appears unchanged from last weeks image. [15:41] lol [15:42] brb [15:42] Riddell: No check box for Encrypt, and Radio button are all Mutex. [15:44] Works [16:34] huh? [16:34] whut [16:35] from rmadison : kdevelop | 4:4.4.1-0ubuntu0.1 | quantal-updates/universe | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc [16:35] whats wrong? [16:37] ubottu is broken [16:37] Sorry, I don't know anything about is broken [16:37] don't blame me [16:38] that new wallpaper is really nice [16:47] Riddell: +1 for Homerun. Should be the default IMHO. [16:48] Quintasan: Ok. Up where exactly? PN? [16:53] no signs of rc1 ? [16:54] not yet [16:54] and it's tagging day today [16:54] release probably will take a couple of days [16:55] :) [16:56] afiestas: kio-mtp ping, do you guys have a release planned? [16:57] or should I ask someone to upload my git snapshot? [16:57] no [16:57] afiestas: so just upload a git snapshot? [16:58] overall testing has been positive ... so just wondering [17:01] Quintasan: pong === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [17:04] ScottK: random thoughts on bug 1090788 ? [17:04] bug 1090788 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu) "Please do not use plasma-netbook for netbooks (wishlist)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1090788 [17:04] yofel: ^ [17:04] would make it kinda useless - but I wouldn't vote against it if asked [17:06] yofel: would make what useless? [17:08] running 'kcmshell4 userconfig' crashes in raring [17:10] backtrace? [17:13] ricktimmis: FWIW, encrypting /home has a sizable impact on performance so defaulting to encryption sounds like a very bad idea (i.e. flame war ahead) === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw [17:16] apachelogger: No FW, that's fine, without overhead then defaulting to the most Secure state would seem appeal, but I agree don't do it if it creates a big overhead. Interestingly after posting that, I noticed that Lubuntu appears to have this working the way we would want. [17:17] apachelogger: its due to new python [17:17] ricktimmis: you mean autologin and encryption not being mutually exclusive? [17:18] apachelogger: tell how cani gdb 'kcmshell4 userconfig' [17:18] when a kde app crashes you should get a backtrace [17:18] also gdb --args foo bar foobar randomarg more random args [17:19] kubuntu_fix_screenshot_compile.diff ... not documented ... not mentioned in the changelog ... hooray [17:20] apachelogger: Not quite they are Mutex in Lubuntu, but my thinking was the 2nd drive for /home use case where a stolen drive would benefit from encryption even if the user never realised encryption was enable, but perhaps that's an exception to prove the rule. [17:20] * apachelogger bzr blames JontheEchidna [17:20] JontheEchidna: y u no document patches? [17:21] apachelogger: Out everything I posted the bit about hidding this from the user and defaulting to a Password login appeals, trying to keep things as simple as possible. [17:21] ricktimmis: well, you can turn on autologin after install [17:21] I think that allowing every possible option should not be a concern of the installer [17:22] ricktimmis: I am all for hiding things ;) [17:22] apachelogger: Agreed, me too. [17:22] JontheEchidna: what's that patch do and why is it there and why is it not upstream and ...? [17:23] apacherlogger: I posted because I understood from the report that a fix had been commited, I tested todays build of Raring, and the issue still appeared to be there. Most likely because I don't know what I am doing yet ! [17:23] apachelogger: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1448005/ [17:24] ricktimmis: it may be that the fix did not yet land on the build [17:26] ricktimmis: the change is not in the archive yet from what I can see === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ [17:27] apachelogger: good enough? [17:27] simplew: do you get an error output as well? [17:27] fatalerror sounds like there should be an error message somewhere [17:27] apachelogger: an error output? [17:28] apachelogger: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1448017 [17:29] apachelogger: like i said, its due to new python, userconfid needs to build against new python [17:29] ah yes [17:29] argument order seems to have changed in python 3.2 [17:30] https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/vim_dev/5MYb23t9ZBM [17:30] JontheEchidna: ^ enjoy [17:30] simplew: userconfig is written entirely in python it needs no building at all [17:34] apachelogger: another thing, when in the window 'kcmshell4 userconfig' isnt possible to have the groups sorted by name [17:34] userconfig is unmaintained [17:35] so if isnt maintanined anymore why it continues to be packaged? [17:35] because it works(tm) [17:35] well now doesnt [17:36] whoop [17:36] pykde4 doesn't [17:36] more specifically the kpythonpluginfactory is not working [17:37] still if is packaged in kubuntu it should be maintained in some way, so why bother reporting bugs and provide support? === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw [17:42] simplew: perhaps someone will pick it up continue development [17:43] apachelogger: i dont think thats a valid option, if its part of kubuntu default packages must be supported [17:43] apachelogger: else dropped [17:43] yeah [17:43] except I did not say it is not support [17:43] I said it is not maintained [17:47] apachelogger: well its has severall bugs, like not being able to sort groups by name, when you are creating a user and you set some group before the user is created the group name disapepars [17:48] apachelogger: so unless someone maintains it should be dropped [17:48] feel free to discuss it on the mailing list [17:50] simplew: whenever https://launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+archive/staging/+build/4072217 is finished you can get a new version from ppa:apachelogger/staging which should fix the crash [17:50] * apachelogger leaves for today [17:51] apachelogger: how much time will take to appear on mirrors? [17:51] there are no mirrors because I have not uploaded it to the archive because I have no raring setup to test the change [17:52] so when that build there finishes it should be available from the ppa immediately or you can simply grab the debs manually [17:52] there are only like 3 or 4 anyway [17:52] now really -> away [18:26] Riddell: I have a question,is kubuntu.org/feature-tour really has screenshots that goes back to KDE 4.3.2 ?! [18:26] from #kubuntu-devel [18:26] erm [18:26] #kubuntu [18:43] shadeslayer: very likely [18:43] shadeslayer: invite him to help fix it [18:43] he's gone [19:11] Riddell: I'll help get it in shape. Who do I talk to? Also, is Calligra going to be coming back into the daily builds? [19:15] i can help to with website stuff :) [19:16] ronnoc: the feature tour? [19:17] ronnoc: make improvements and we'll put them in [19:17] ooh all the helpers now [19:19] ok. will play around with it and send via mailing list, if that's the preferred way. [19:19] apachelogger: Sorry was away for dinner, I see OK. I will watch out for the patch being release into the daily build and test when I can. Thanx [19:20] ronnoc: daily builds as in neon? I don't have much to do with that [19:21] but there's a new calligra I just uploaded could do with a test [19:21] in raring [19:21] Riddell: If I have Calligra installed in Raring should I just update to get the latest? [19:23] Riddell: did you upload ktp? because I forgot the meta package in there [19:23] not yet [19:24] ah cool [19:24] uploaded it then [19:24] still eating this haggis pizza [19:24] :D [19:24] heh [19:24] Ok downloaded the updated Calligra. Will have a go and try to break things. [19:26] wow Krita is only 3.6MB. It's half the size of Stage! Who wudda thunk it. [19:46] ronnoc: I'd guess templates take up the space? [19:53] Riddell: btw any ideas why we don't ship whoopsie? [19:53] seems like everyone else ships it [19:53] nope [19:54] something to investigate ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker [19:55] shadeslayer: we have an open bug that everyone else fixed - I'm just not convinced by the "fix" [19:55] oh, which one? [19:55] why should kubuntu-desktop depend on it when apport is the only thing that uses it? [19:56] hello, can someone please can help me to fix this http://paste.kde.org/627428/ [19:56] shadeslayer: bug 1001630 [19:56] bug 1001630 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-desktop kubuntu-desktop etc. no longer upload crash reports as of Precise" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001630 [19:57] hmm [19:57] I agree [19:58] yofel: I just noticed this because apport prompts me to send reports [19:58] but I didn't see anything being sent [19:58] which is just as bad [19:58] iulian_: /usr/share/applications/kde/kresources.desktop looks like a file you installed yourself, it's not in any of our packages [19:59] so yeah, needs fixing in apport [20:00] iulian_: when I look at that im-switch file it looks fine so I guess you're on quantal or older? I'm on raring [20:00] kubuntu 10.10 kde 4.5.5 [20:01] iulian_: ooh that's old, time to upgrade :) [20:01] Riddell: Yea definately all the included templates in Stage make it bigger - but I was equally suprised at the small size of Krita for all it does :) [20:02] yes, yes just messed up some icons after upgrades think its something with hicolor-icon-theme [20:02] actually [20:02] Riddell: ~ » desktop-file-validate /usr/share/app-install/desktop/im-switch:im-switch.desktop shadeslayer@solembum [20:02] /usr/share/app-install/desktop/im-switch:im-switch.desktop: error: value "Settings" for string list key "Categories" in group "Desktop Entry" does not have a semicolon (';') as trailing character [20:03] on raring [20:03] same for /usr/share/applications/im-switch.desktop [20:04] shadeslayer: ooh you're right [20:04] but it's more or less a warning and an upstream issue [20:04] well it's a native package [20:05] oh [20:05] * Quintasan was successful at thread managment in Qt [20:05] http://paste.kde.org/627434 [20:05] not that actually solves anything [20:05] :D [20:06] iulian_: ok so there is a wee something to fix, download the package, fix it, add changelog, rebuild source, get debdiff, report bug. let me know if you need help with any of that [20:06] the next line blocks IO so I'm back at start [20:06] haha [20:07] and the worst thing is [20:07] there is a method to write tags using threads [20:07] but there isn't one to read tags [20:07] and the next line is fucking reading the tag [20:07] !@$%$@# [20:08] Riddell: it's not bug there is how file look http://paste.kde.org/627452/ [20:08] shadeslayer: Did you know that amarok did tag writing in the main thread? [20:08] nope [20:09] It essentialy caused the whole ui to freeze is you tired to tag more files at once [20:09] The music would be still playing [20:09] Quintasan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6PZhONZ3Ac [20:09] even if you killed the amarok window using ctrl+esc :D [20:09] hah [20:10] I'm trying [20:10] I don't think I'll be able to though [20:11] iulian_: there's no file at /usr/share/kde/services/kresources.desktop [20:11] there was one at /usr/share/kde4/services/kresources.desktop but not any more [20:11] so that issue isn't valid [20:12] but the im-switch one can be fixed if you like [20:14] ok, but what i have installed ro appear this file, seems like i have two desktop entries [20:23] apachelogger: I would like upstream's opinion. Plasma netbook is somewhat under maintained these days. In general thought, I think the proposed change would not align well with being close to upstream. Additionally, except for the page one thing, I don't find it particularly buggy. [20:24] apachelogger: re bug 641712 - wontfix. [20:24] bug 641712 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "Not possible to enter password for a new user in KDM (Maverick, Natty and Oneiric)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641712 [20:25] Riddell: Thanks for checking, re KDE games. [20:28]