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dholbach#startmeeting Community Council meeting17:00
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Dec 20 17:00:10 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:00
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dholbachWelcome everyone to the last CC meeting in 2012.17:00
dholbachToday we are going to catch up with the Forums Council and the Translations team. Do we have somebody from either of the two teams here?17:00
dholbachI got a reminder email from somebody in the translations team today, so they should be aware. I'll go and see who I can round up. Can somebody reach out to some FC folks?17:02
cprofittpinged the forums irc channel17:03
dholbachthanks cprofitt17:03
czajkowskicool I was about to try and find folks via https://launchpad.net/~forum-council/+members#active17:03
* dholbach lights the bat^WCC signal17:04
cprofittlooking at who is on in their irc channel I do not see anyone from the FC17:04
dholbachhey kelemengabor :)17:06
dholbachI'd say we start with the Translations team then. :-)17:06
kelemengaborhi dholbach, all17:06
dholbach#topic Catching up with the Translations team17:06
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting Meeting | Current topic: Catching up with the Translations team
dholbachkelemengabor, how are you doing?17:06
dholbachthanks a lot for making a bit of time17:07
czajkowskikelemengabor: ello17:07
cprofitthello kelemengabor17:07
kelemengaborwell, not much ubuntu-wise, sadly. I was busy with other tasks :(17:07
kelemengaborbtw, isn't dpm the translations team lead? :)17:08
dholbachWe've been doing these catch-ups with various teams in the Ubuntu community for 2 cycles now and at UDS the suggestion to talk with the translations community as well was brought up and I mailed the team after UDS, it seems like this has fallen through the cracks, probably holiday-related, which is understandable17:08
dholbachkelemengabor, I pinged him, but he might be in a call just now17:09
dholbachkelemengabor, what was your gut feeling of the last release and how the translations community dealt with it?17:09
* trijntje is on his way home and will read back17:10
kelemengaborlast release... it was a little buggy to my taste (compared to Precise), also we are quite lacking dpm's leadership. without someone pushing things forward, things tend to not move forward...17:11
dholbachkelemengabor, how do things generally work in the translations team? are there milestones? do teams get notified about missing translations?17:12
dholbachI must admit that I never dived too deep into translations work, but was always impressed that so many strings get translated every cycle and people sometimes just spontaneously pick things up17:13
Gwaihirkelemengabor, might be a good opportunity to open up a little bit the ubuntu-translation-coordinators team too, am also part of it, but have less less time lately, new people might help out17:13
* cprofitt nods to Gwaihir 17:14
czajkowskiGwaihir: ah yes I'd like to see that happening also17:14
teolemonthere's been a recent focus on tacking the Software Centre Descriptions17:14
teolemonaka the DDTP17:15
kelemengaborno, we don't have milestones. there are things that need to be done at certain times in the release cycle (opening up translations, setting up langpack export&build, cleaning the import queue) but these are not formalized17:15
dholbachhello teolemon17:15
teolemonhello dholbach17:15
Gwaihirteolemon, on that front, is there also coordination with upstream/Debian? they have their own set-up to handle that...17:16
kelemengaborGwaihir: sure. but without organization and mentoring, they'd be doomed :)17:16
dholbachI'm not quite sure I understand it yet, but is the problem you're seeing that these notifications (with specific related tasks) are missing?17:16
teolemonDDTP on Debian side was down for a couple of months17:17
kelemengabordholbach: what do you mean by notifications?17:17
teolemonand we were told there was some sync with Debian17:17
teolemoncould never check if it was true17:17
Gwaihirkelemengabor, true, the wiki also needs to be cleaned up a little bit... :-/17:17
kelemengaborprobably we should have a blueprint to keep these in order, but we don't17:17
kelemengaborhave any17:18
dholbachkelemengabor, the way I imagined things, I thought that all the individual translations teams would need a heads-up about what needs to be translated at which time, etc17:18
teolemonbut we've started using a semi-automated approach using Google Translator Kit and crowdsourcing to tackle the sheer amount of work17:18
kelemengaborGwaihir: yes, the wiki needs a lot of love17:18
kelemengabordholbach: I see. no, these are team-internal tasks, that need to be done once for all the languages.17:19
kelemengaboras per notifying teams, we have some announcements, but only a few17:19
kelemengaborusually, they keep an eye on the statistics page17:20
kelemengaborthat tells everything17:20
kelemengabor(or should :))17:20
dholbachok, that sounds like a good start already :)17:20
teolemonsame here17:20
teolemonthe statistics page was a way to motivate everybody17:20
teolemoneven if it listed upstream packages17:20
dholbachis there some team internal discussions and exchange between the teams about what works well for them?17:21
teolemonwhich led to beginners retranslating upstream17:21
kelemengabordholbach: there were, in the precise cycle, bi-weekly calls17:21
teolemonwe're starting to do so, as we discover issues17:21
teolemonfor instance17:21
kelemengabornot anymore, though17:21
teolemonwe share the same hatred for the infamous launchpad timeout bug :-)17:22
dholbachwould irc meetings maybe work better?17:22
kelemengaborand those worked well, so it would be good to resurrect those17:22
czajkowskiteolemon: many of those timeout bugs are being fixed17:22
kelemengabordholbach: it's not about the medium17:22
dholbachbut somebody setting them up?17:22
kelemengaborexactly. that was dpm.17:23
kelemengaboralso these were UTC meetings, so not open for everyone17:23
dholbachthat's an obvious speciality of the translations world17:23
dholbachmaybe it'd make sense to have rotating times17:24
dholbachand there I think (especially if you have many people), IRC might work better17:24
kelemengaborwe talked about setting up stuff, making translators life easier...17:24
kelemengaborlike this17:24
teolemonalso, if those meetings could include some person related to Launchpad Translations17:25
dholbachmaybe it'd be worth bringing up the idea of regular meetings on the team mailing list again17:25
teolemoni think it would help to integrate translations closer into software17:25
dholbachyes, and invite external people who should be able to help17:26
kelemengaborteolemon: maybe, but I heard that there is no dedicated LP Translations dev team anymore.17:26
czajkowskikelemengabor: that is true there isn't17:26
czajkowskiLP doesn't have dedicated teams, it has squads that work on different projects17:26
dholbachstill it should be possible to get a representative every now and then, I guess :)17:26
dholbachlike if there's something pressing17:27
czajkowskiand there is a maintenance squad currently working on critical bugs17:27
Gwaihirdholbach, possible, but the only people I know that were really working on LP Translations, and are still somewhat around are Danilo and Jeroen17:28
teolemonI guess translation isn't something that fails in a spectacular way17:28
kelemengabordholbach: on the regular meetings: we had some open meetings on IRC a few years ago, like Lucid-time... those were okay too17:29
czajkowskiperhaps like dholbach suggests having regular meetings again may help bring the team together and get more interest in17:29
kelemengaborteolemon: not yet. but have you heard about the langpack update for Quantal?17:30
kelemengaborme neither. and this is a problem.17:30
dholbachwell that certainly was insightful to me so far, but maybe we should have another meeting where we discuss things and find out together what we can do, but yes, I agree an internal team meeting to collect some ideas might be a good start17:30
kelemengaborthat may escalate quickly... :(17:31
cprofittis there a regular blog post from the translations team to planet?17:31
teolemoni don't know if the point was raised already17:31
czajkowskican you elaborate on "langpack update for Quantal?17:31
teolemonbut the fact that david was shifted to applications is also scaring me a little bit17:31
kelemengaborcprofitt: dpm does posts about translations to the planet, but rarely17:32
dholbachczajkowski, feed updated translations into the stable quantal release17:32
czajkowskiah thanks dholbach17:32
teolemonwe had some import issues before the release of quantal17:32
cprofittkelemengabor: it sounds like the internal meeting is important to identify areas of need... and that a little exposure (planet) could help attract some new folks...17:33
teolemonand loads of tiny issues that need really good attention and knowledge of the merge process and all that stuff17:33
kelemengaborczajkowski: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseSchedule - we had this for Oneiric, but not for Precise or Quantal17:33
kelemengaborcprofitt: absolutely17:34
dholbachto me it looks, like we should have another catch-up with the translations team, maybe after some internal discussion - what do you think? :)17:35
kelemengaborand we have this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA/LanguagePackUpdateScheduleTemplate17:35
teolemonlisting all the bugs and pain points17:35
kelemengaborthis is a well designed machinery, but it would need an operator17:35
cprofitt+1 dholbach17:35
teolemonand ranking them by time lost17:35
dholbachkelemengabor, or a team of operators :)17:35
czajkowskiso I do know for Precise there was some issues opening up Precise for translations which may have had an affect to the schedule17:36
czajkowskihttps://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/211651  this is now waiting for be ack'd as far as I can see for raring17:36
kelemengabordholbach: sure. preferably of the kind that does not graduate or marry in a year :)17:36
dholbachthere's always this thing called life around all the Ubuntu stuff :)17:37
czajkowskiheh indeed17:37
dholbachI'll take an action to mail the translations team again about a new date in 201317:38
dholbachwe have no word back from the Forums Council, so we might have to reschedule them as well17:38
cprofittyes, we should reschedule with them17:38
kelemengaborczajkowski: yep, that's it. assigned to dpm, but seems he does not have time...17:38
teolemonthere's no intend to replace David's full time as translation coordinator/developper, right ?17:38
czajkowskikelemengabor: we/me can reassign it to another person to open up the raring translations17:38
czajkowskibut we've not been asked to do so17:39
trijntjehi, just dropping in, I'd have to agree that we are a bit at a loss without dpm ;)17:39
dholbachI feel there's always going to be times like this, where you have a transition and you need to figure out what can be done to keep the train rolling.17:39
cprofitt+1 dholbach17:39
czajkowskiwell was it explained what was happening so that a transition could be put in place?17:40
dholbachbut a few of the things which were mentioned earlier could be done by a team of translators as well - like posting on planet for example17:40
dholbachin fact it'd make things a bit more lively if there's posts from multiple people and teams rather than just one guy17:40
czajkowskidholbach: +117:40
dholbachor organising a meeting17:41
cprofittyes, it is good to see multiple people from teams...17:41
dholbachbut I appreciate that losing a dedicated full-time person can be a shock17:41
kelemengaborczajkowski: can you reassign to the ubuntu-translations-coordinators team?17:41
teolemonespecially on the technical side17:41
teolemoni'm not a developper17:42
cprofittposting on the planet. I think it helps give people perspective and allows people to identify the effort as a true team effort... gives them more people to contact if they are interested too17:42
dholbachDo you feel that there's anything the CC could do to help? Apart from cloning David? :-)17:43
teolemonand implementing fuzzy in lp, fixing the timeout, opening raring early, making sure the upstream translations are imported quickly to avoid duplication and stuff like that requires technical mojo17:43
dholbachit's great we're having this discussion right now as I haven't heard much about the translations community in the last time and feel like I learned a lot17:43
kelemengaborteolemon: I think Santa is not here right now... :P17:44
czajkowskikelemengabor: I can if that is what is the best thing to do17:44
kelemengabordholbach: good question. I can't think of anything right now, maybe later. until then, please clone David :).17:45
* cprofitt looks for cloning instructions17:45
czajkowskiteolemon: we;ve down to 170 critical bugs so hopefully they will be done soon in the new year17:45
dholbachhaha, I'll make sure to get into the lab later on17:45
teolemonalso wanted to point this out17:45
teolemonwe've been starting this17:45
teolemonbecause we noticed people value translated descriptions better17:46
teolemontranslations add a polished look17:46
teolemonand increase the perceived value of ubuntu17:47
teolemonboth on the app side17:47
teolemonas well as on the doc side17:47
teolemonwhere normalized doc17:47
teolemonwhen translated17:47
trijntjealso on the ddtp front: soon all packages will be sorted based on popcon, so translators can work on the descriptions of the most popular packages first without external tools17:47
teolemonsaves a lot of time and ressources17:47
czajkowskiI've changed the asignee of https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/211651  to ~ubuntu-translations-coordinators17:48
dholbachWould it be OK for you to maybe have a think as a team and we get back together in the new year to spend some time brainstorming about what can be done and where the priorities should lie? That's at least something the CC could offer in terms of help.17:48
trijntjethat would be nice17:49
dholbachall right, I'll take an action to mail the translations team and the forums council about a new date17:49
teolemonkelemengabor, trijntje: http://lite.framapad.org/p/ubuntutranslationscoordination17:50
kelemengabordholbach: sure, we can have an IRC meeting to discuss what should/can be done and who is interested17:50
teolemonlet's start right now ;-)17:50
dholbachkelemengabor, cool - I think that'd help lots - also to get a feel for priorities17:50
dholbachcprofitt, czajkowski, any more questions from you?17:50
czajkowskino I think it'll be good to hear from the team post xmas and maybe once thye've had a chance to think about things and how we can help17:51
czajkowskithanks for coming17:51
dholbachtrijntje, teolemon, kelemengabor: thanks a lot for joining us here17:51
dholbach#topic Any other business?17:52
trijntjedholbach: sure, thanks for your time, happy holidays17:52
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dholbachand the same to you :)17:52
cprofittthanks to all for coming.17:52
trijntje(barring the end of the world ofc)17:52
teolemonthanks a lot17:52
dholbachI don't have any other business - our Trello looks in shape and there's nothing on the agenda page17:53
dholbachanyone else?17:53
czajkowskiHave a lovely Christmas folks :)17:54
dholbachall right, that's it then :)17:54
dholbachenjoy the holidays, have a great start into 201317:54
dholbachand thanks for all the great work you all put into Ubuntu!17:54
dholbachbig hugs!17:54
dholbachthanks everyone17:54
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meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Dec 20 17:54:44 2012 UTC.17:54
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-12-20-17.00.moin.txt17:54
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-12-20-17.00.html17:54
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