[07:03] <Lumpy> greetings anyone awake?
[15:00] <drmacro> Running 12.10 liveusb, apps won't launch for example firefox can't find a profile, Ardour/audacity do nothing when clicked.
[15:27] <zequence> drmacro: Which app did you use to create the live usb?
[15:36] <drmacro> zequence: unetbootn on another ubs PC (PS: the live stick is actually 12.04 64bit)
[15:38] <zequence> drmacro: unetbootin usually works fine for me. Maybe just try again. Make sure the ISO image is not corrupt
[16:00] <drmacro> zequence: I just downloaded the 32 bit iso, gonna give it a go. Could be the target laptop not happy with 64bit...just wag. :P
[16:04] <holstein> unetbootin is what i use.. and i usually do 32bit unless i just nee 64bit
[16:04] <holstein> need*
[16:19] <drmacro> gaack...now it says no default or ui and stops at the boot:
[16:19] <holstein> drmacro: what did you remove?
[16:20] <drmacro> I used unetbootn to write ubs 32 bit iso on the same stick that 64 bit was on. it said it was replacing everthing...
[16:22] <holstein> drmacro: it?
[16:22] <holstein> drmacro: i just replace everything.. each time
[16:22] <holstein> i format in between each go
[16:23]  * holstein doesnt trust "it"
[16:38] <Lumpy> hello all
[16:38] <Lumpy> is there anyone here who might be able to help me with idjc issues
[16:38] <Lumpy> i am not sure, but suspect it involves pulseaudio
[16:40] <holstein> Lumpy: i have only ever used it with JACK
[16:41] <Lumpy> holstein: same here
[16:41] <Lumpy> i updated to 12.04 and pulse is in there now
[16:41] <Lumpy> in the past i have exercised it
[16:42] <Lumpy> but from what i read in forums on the web and such, it should work now with pulse
[16:42] <Lumpy> and i would rather have pulse working to incorporate teamspeak locally
[16:42] <Lumpy> rather than run it in off another machine via my mixer
[16:42] <Lumpy> i am open to any suggestions
[16:42] <Lumpy> i haven't fully looked into everything yet
[16:43] <Lumpy> but my server logs, Icecast, don't seem to indicate it is on the server end
[16:44] <Lumpy> the audio ends up getting all skippy and I can't stay connected to the stream
[16:44] <holstein> just disable pulse when jack starts.. thats what i did.. remove it from the equation
[16:44] <holstein> raise the latency settings
[16:44] <holstein> you dont need low latency for idjc
[16:44] <Lumpy> i am using a RT kernel, latency is not likely the issue, least from what i see atm
[16:45] <Lumpy> the settings are the same as i have always had them
[16:45] <holstein> Lumpy: cool.. i'll let you talk with of the other volunteers then about that.. and i'll throw out how to disable pulse
[16:45] <Lumpy> i agree on that regarding low latency for idjc but i want it for other stuff
[16:45] <holstein> let me know when you want to consider latency as an issue..
[16:45] <Lumpy> no don't throw it out
[16:45] <Lumpy> i am open to discuss it
[16:46] <Lumpy> all i am saying is that i am not sure
[16:46] <Lumpy> wasn't trying to argue with you sorry
[16:46] <Lumpy> and i am willing to try it without pulse
[16:46] <holstein> under jack setup.. the misc tab.. enable dbus.. untick that box and restart jack.. that should disable the pulse bridge
[16:47] <Lumpy> sorry if i offended you.. didn't meant to
[16:47]  * holstein is not offended
[16:47] <Lumpy> give me a few seconds and I will boot the os and try what you suggested
[16:48] <Lumpy> do i need to reboot the os to have the changes stick or just jackd
[16:49] <Lumpy> i had two different answers on that one in forums last night
[16:49] <drmacro> holstein: formatted stick, unetbootin --> 32 bit, all is good. Apps even run. :-D
[16:49] <holstein> Lumpy: you can check after restarting qjack... reboot if needed
[16:50] <holstein> Lumpy: i forget.. and usually just test and do what needs to be done
[16:50] <Lumpy> looks like jackd only is needed
[16:50] <holstein> drmacro: cheers!.. i had a few failures and now i just format each time
[16:50] <Lumpy> and, holstein i am about the same on that remembering thing.. diigo is my buddy even for cli stuff
[16:51] <holstein> Lumpy: also, you should have realistic expectations of the hardware.. if its an internal card, you likely wont get lowlatency
[16:52] <Lumpy> so you are suggesting to not to use the low latency, correct?
[16:53] <holstein> Lumpy: depends on what you are referring to
[16:53] <holstein> im not referring to "lowlatency" as a noun necessarily
[16:53] <Lumpy> i have a pci soundblaster card
[16:53] <holstein> not the lowlatency kernel or whatever
[16:54] <Lumpy> i am confused atm.. give me a second
[16:54] <holstein> im just saying, if you have a soundblaster, likely the lowest latency you will get regardless of tweaks and kernels is around 20 or 30 ms
[16:54] <holstein> which in my testing, might as well be 80ms
[16:54] <Lumpy> i have been using studio for a few years
[16:54] <holstein> if i cant approach 10ms, i can percieve it.. so the hardware is useless for RT or lowlatency
[16:54] <Lumpy> it just seemed better with audacity and lowlatency kernel
[16:55] <holstein> Lumpy: sure.. it might seem "better". but how much better?
[16:55] <holstein> you can get to 40ms instead of 60?
[16:55] <holstein> whats the point?
[16:55] <holstein> 40 wont do
[16:55] <Lumpy> but give me a second and let me see if i can resolve the stream connection first please
[16:55] <holstein> you need 10
[16:55] <Lumpy> i would love to pick your brain for more better gooder in a moment
[16:55] <holstein> plus, you likely usually dont need lowlatency
[16:56] <holstein> i have a nice firewire device i can get 1.2ms stable on.. but i dont set it like that all the time
[16:56] <holstein> i have different profiles. and when im mixing, i just jack it up to 80ms+.. because latency is not an issue in that scenario
[16:56] <holstein> if lowlatency is a priority for you, the best thing you can do is replace that soundblaster
[16:57] <Lumpy> i want to get up to a better card, i was thinking maudio
[16:57] <Lumpy> but, in general, latency is not an issue for me
[16:57] <holstein> think about it this way. you are asking a tiny consumer grade piece of hardware made for listening to sound to perform as a piece of gear from a pro studio
[16:57] <Lumpy> and i did what you suggested, now no skips but still don't seem to connect
[16:58] <holstein> and, im not talking bad about the soundblaster.. its just not the right tool for that job
[16:58] <holstein> Lumpy: doent connect to icecast?
[16:58] <holstein> or jack?
[16:58] <Lumpy> i agreee on that holstein, but atm, sb is all i got
[16:58] <Lumpy> it is wierd holstein,
[16:58] <Lumpy> it connects to jack just fine
[16:58] <holstein> Lumpy: i think you can do "ok" with that hardware as long as you accept its limitations
[16:59] <Lumpy> novacast says i am connected to the stream
[16:59] <Lumpy> but
[16:59] <Lumpy> it is not streaming what i am streaming if i listen on another machine
[16:59] <Lumpy> however, you did fix the skipping audio
[17:00] <holstein> unfortunately, i havent gotten around to using icecast in 12.04 or 12.10. im still using 10.04 on my studio rig mostly and migrating slowly over
[17:00] <Lumpy> all i need is 128 kbps cbr for my stream
[17:00] <Lumpy> i was on 10.04 until the upgrade
[17:00] <Lumpy> and it worked flawlessly
[17:00] <holstein> Lumpy: may i suggest just double checking all configs and settings and trying #opensourcemusicians ?
[17:00] <Lumpy> i saw a forum post about removing some of the packages and using another repo to grab them
[17:00] <holstein> Lumpy: the upgrade?
[17:01] <Lumpy> to 12.04 from 10.04
[17:01] <holstein> Lumpy: you dont *have* to upgrade
[17:01] <Lumpy> and i did double check all the settings
[17:01] <holstein> you talk about it as if it was impending ;)
[17:01] <Lumpy> i have used the same settings for years
[17:01] <holstein> im still not ready to upgrade
[17:02] <holstein> but, thats water under the bridge, so to speak
[17:02] <Lumpy> i upgraded for the following reason
[17:02] <Lumpy> i have several machines all connected to each other via synergy
[17:02] <holstein> Lumpy: i would do the normal stuff too... run icecast and all apps you can from the terminal and look for output
[17:02] <Lumpy> i have an old single core i use for irc and upgraded it to mint for xfce
[17:03] <Lumpy> it needed synergy beta to work right
[17:03] <Lumpy> 10.04 studio did not like the beta synergy
[17:03] <Lumpy> so i upgraded
[17:03] <Lumpy> so now i can use synergy but have stream issues
[17:03] <holstein> im sure you'll get it sorted
[17:03] <Lumpy> while i would be willing to go back to 10.04, i would rather still have synergy than using vnc
[17:04] <holstein> nah.. dont go back.. im just saying, for a mission critical box, i take the "look before you leap" mentality to the extreme
[17:05] <Lumpy> heh, i tried a dozeen different flavors in the past week
[17:06] <Lumpy> if it comes to mission critical, i can still use winamp on the XP boot
[17:06] <holstein> i would setup your own server, or ask about using one in #opensourcemusicians to test
[17:06] <Lumpy> but i rather hate windows
[17:06] <Lumpy> i do have a dedicated server and i will join the channel you suggested
[17:06] <holstein> Lumpy: im only suggesting to remove it from the equation
[17:07] <holstein> stream to localhost.. that will leave only the software
[17:07] <Lumpy> and i am not 100% sure it is not on the server end
[17:07] <Lumpy> but i don't see anything in the logs that suggest that
[17:07] <holstein> could the the client config still
[17:07] <Lumpy> i am not the one who deals with the server mostly though so i could be missing something
[17:08]  * Lumpy puts on a "color me simple" hat
[17:08] <Lumpy> local server, duh, i should have thought of that
[17:10] <holstein> eh.. its just a troubleshooting idea.. remove things from the equation or whatever
[17:14] <Lumpy> hmm
[17:14] <Lumpy> doesn't look like it is the software then
[17:15] <Lumpy> thanks
[17:15] <holstein> Lumpy: hey, thats good to know
[17:15] <holstein> ...now what ;)
[17:15] <holstein> maybe its simple as the client config for the server?
[17:16] <Lumpy> maybe
[17:16] <holstein> either way, sounds like you are chipping away at it
[17:16] <Lumpy> but that too is all the same
[17:16] <Lumpy> and yeah, chipping works atm
[17:16] <Lumpy> thanks again
[17:16] <holstein> sure.. anytime.. hope you get it sorted
[17:17] <Lumpy> you here often holstein?
[17:17] <holstein> well, im logged in all the time, but i get busy sometimes
[17:18] <Lumpy> i think i might become a lurker here as well
[17:18] <Lumpy> thanks for the help, i think the next chipping is going to be on novacast
[17:19] <holstein> Lumpy: we could use the help.. eve if its just a "welcome to the channel" message
[17:19] <holstein> even*
[17:19] <Lumpy> holstein: i would hope i could help more than that
[17:20] <holstein> Lumpy: im sure you can :)
[17:20] <Lumpy> regarding the low latency
[17:20] <Lumpy> i understand what you are saying about doing nothing at all for the SB
[17:21] <holstein> well, it might help a bit, but i still wouldnt expect to use it for a software synth or realtime effects
[17:21] <Lumpy> but doe it not also give priority to jack so that stuff chromium browser and other programs won't clog my resource deprive machine
[17:22] <Lumpy> that is more why i went with it
[17:22] <Lumpy> if that is not the case, i might revert
[17:23] <Lumpy> and i don't any realtime effects so to say
[17:23] <holstein> Lumpy: you can ask in the dev channel or on the mailing list, but i just dont run those apps on my studio rig
[17:23] <holstein> Lumpy: you should be able to get RT priority from JACK now with lowlatency
[17:24] <holstein> maybe even the generic kernel
[17:24] <holstein> Lumpy: there is less of a need for RT now.. and less of an advantage from RT
[17:24] <Lumpy> in the past i had to edit a file, i forget which, and change the nice settings
[17:24] <holstein> yup
[17:24] <Lumpy> in that sense it gave it RT
[17:24] <Lumpy> but that was years ago
[17:24] <holstein> Lumpy: that should be needed anymore
[17:24] <holstein> Lumpy: test though.. trust nothing i say
[17:25] <holstein> check the jack messages window
[17:25] <Lumpy> i was just thinking that.. i have the HD space and could actually try a regular with the same OS
[17:25] <Lumpy> but, as the low latency came available, I just went with it, seemed to have less browser interference
[17:26] <Lumpy> the browser is something i often abuse while streaming
[17:26] <Lumpy> ntl, good food for though, thanks again
[17:26] <Lumpy> and is the dev channel just #dev?
[17:26] <Lumpy> and i always check the jack message window
[17:27] <Lumpy> that was another reason for the confusion
[17:27] <Lumpy> no errors
[17:27] <Lumpy> but deffinitely skipping
[17:27] <Lumpy> so as far as trusting, i go with my ears over the message window
[17:28] <Lumpy> and with the changes you suggested
[17:28] <Lumpy> no skipping and still now errors
[17:28] <Lumpy> so you got it to more better gooder
[17:28] <holstein> kernels dont take up much hd space
[17:28] <holstein> i trust the original audio tool as well.. the ear :)
[17:28] <Lumpy> not much at all
[17:29] <Lumpy> yup, best rule of thumb so long as the thumb is not in the ear.. heh
[17:30] <Lumpy> so what is the dev channel?
[17:32] <Lumpy> but, for what it is worth, i can't recall having any issues with the low latency kernal short of nvidia messing with it
[17:33] <Lumpy> but with 12.04 i don't even need the nvidia drivers
[17:33] <Lumpy> then again, that should be true for a regular kernel as well
[17:34] <Lumpy> pardon my sleep deprivation ramble
[17:36] <Lumpy> brb, just to throw it out of the equation, i am going to try a reboot and the connecting
[17:36] <holstein>  #ubuntustudio-devel is the dev channel BTW
[17:37] <holstein> i will run 12.04 ubuntustudio til 14.04
[17:37] <holstein> though i test all releases
[17:42] <Lumpy> no change on reboot
[17:42] <Lumpy> are you a developer holstein?
[17:42] <Lumpy> and no change on reboot
[17:42] <holstein> Lumpy: nah.. im a developing contributor ;)
[17:44] <Lumpy> and what does that mean?
[17:47] <Lumpy> holstein: thanks for the help
[17:47] <Lumpy> i will lurk in the channels you suggested and, hopefully, i can help out
[17:48] <Lumpy> for now, i need a nap before i take the kid to see the lights and such
[17:49] <holstein> Lumpy: im not a developer yet.. but id like to be
[17:49]  * Lumpy is pretty much a hack of all trades
[17:50] <Lumpy> i started out with patch cord Moogs and 1 inch tape
[17:50] <holstein> Lumpy: cool.. welcome to the community!
[17:50] <Lumpy> i still stream off a Tascam 464 protastudio for my mixer
[17:50] <Lumpy> like you said, the ears are the best guide
[17:51] <holstein> yup
[17:51] <Lumpy> for now, i need a nap but i am looking forward to more chat with all of you
[17:52] <Lumpy> thanks again and nini for now
[18:56] <drmacro> holstein: So you think I should install Jack do you? ;-)
[18:56] <holstein> drmacro: jack is installed by default
[18:57] <holstein> drmacro: do you need jack? thats the question. if you dont, then dont bother with it
[18:59] <drmacro> holstein: yes but over on ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com you suggested I install jack. Just joking with you...I've been using Ardour/UBS/etc for several years.
[19:00] <holstein> drmacro: macdroid53 /
[19:00] <holstein> ?
[19:00] <holstein> what i suggested was installing.. the opereating system
[19:01] <holstein> i'll be more specific though...
[19:01] <drmacro> holstein: guilty
[19:01] <holstein> "Ardour needs jack... I would install, and choose one thing at a time to troubleshoot. Cheers" is what i said
[19:01] <holstein> that was in reponse to "For example Firefox complains about no profie, Inkscape says it's
[19:01] <holstein> > running with defaults, Ardour/Audacity do nothing"
[19:02] <holstein> drmacro: i was saying, ardour might not run there since it needs JACK.. if you are not runing JACK first
[19:02] <holstein> drmacro: i did not feel i needed to imply you should install JACK, since its installed
[19:02] <holstein> i did want to imply you should try installing the operating system
[19:02] <drmacro> holstein: well as I said earlier, I used the 32bit version of ubs and things work fine. So I'm blaming 64bit on the target laptop
[19:02] <holstein> drmacro: if you want a live persistent USB, try installing to the USB stick
[19:03] <holstein> drmacro: so, you have  working system then?
[19:03] <holstein> enjoy
[19:05] <drmacro> holstein: yeah, with the 64bit live programs just didn't run. Then unetbootin didn't flush the 64bit version when I re-made the stick with 32bit, wouldn't boot. Then, you suggested format the stick
[19:05] <drmacro> that worked fine with 32bit.
[19:06] <holstein> i use 32bit unless i need 64
[19:07] <holstein> i have no idea what you have encountered with the 64bit iso live.. could have been a bad image or a bad download or a bad stick or process creating the stick.. or several bugs that no one has cared to report yet
[19:07] <holstein> feel free and start a bug report and link it up here, and i'll try and reproduce it and mark myself as affected
[19:10] <drmacro> well, this is a pretty old Dell laptop. I don't even attempt to use it with my firewire devices since I found out back around 8.04 that it doesn't have TI chipset. So I only use it with the on board sound.