[00:04] <len-xu> On sound interfaces that PA does not directly control the levels of such as my ice1712 based d66 there is no GUI way of  getting sound. alsamixer in a terminal works though.
[00:05] <len-xu> Not a big problem. it is a set once deal for most uses.
[12:24] <ochosi> maddernick: ping
[12:37] <maddernick> ochosi: pong (didnt push, got drunk)
[12:37] <ochosi> ehehe
[12:37] <maddernick> ochosi: if you got the file
[12:37] <maddernick> could you push?
[12:37] <ochosi> i guess
[12:37] <maddernick> 1 sec
[12:37] <ochosi> but in the longer run, it'd be good if you updated your key
[12:38] <maddernick> indeed
[12:38] <maddernick> http://31.192.230.130:1337/xubuntu-logo.script
[12:39] <ochosi> so what does it do with the wallpaper exactly?
[12:40] <maddernick> it scales it in 1 of 2 ways
[12:40] <ochosi> ah
[12:40] <maddernick> depending on what ratio is the biggest
[12:40] <ochosi> ok, that's different from xfdesktop i guess
[12:40] <maddernick> root win vs image
[12:40] <maddernick> it is?
[12:40] <ochosi> xfdesktop zooms the wallpaper
[12:40] <maddernick> hm
[12:40] <ochosi> i think i mentioned that recently when we talked about the meaning of "auto"
[12:41] <maddernick> I asked about meaning of auto, i dont recall getting an answer
[12:41] <ochosi> i said this yesterday:
[12:41] <ochosi> 16:10  ochosi$ maddernick: "auto" chooses tiled if the image size is half the monitor size, else it acts as zoomed.
[12:41] <maddernick> The old script, would make the wallpaper fully stretched
[12:41] <maddernick> oh
[12:42] <maddernick> ochosi: okay ill make sure to do that instead then
[12:42] <ochosi> actually the "auto"-mode will be dropped from xfdesktop (although i'm not sure that'll affect 13.04), but i still think zoom is a good mode
[12:42] <ochosi> that'd be nice!
[12:42] <ochosi> i also thought i could whip up some pngs for the animation
[12:42] <maddernick> awesome
[12:43] <ochosi> if it's a spinner, are you gonna rotate it in the script or do you need pngs for the different phases?
[12:43] <maddernick> i could rotate it in script
[12:43] <ochosi> ok, then i'll try to do something and we can test it
[12:44] <ochosi> i vaguely remember you did screencasts of it last time
[12:44] <maddernick> yup
[12:44] <maddernick> I can do that
[12:44] <ochosi> do you think you could do that again once we have something that works?
[12:44] <maddernick> we did have a spinner
[12:44] <ochosi> oh cool 
[12:44] <maddernick> Before aswell, but it was voted down
[12:44] <ochosi> yeah, not sure why we didn't use it :p
[12:44] <maddernick> (you and knome didnt agree ;))
[12:44] <ochosi> yeah, it's been a while now, i think i can try again with a nice spinner
[12:45] <maddernick> oki
[12:45] <ochosi> just have to settle on a style
[12:45] <ochosi> (e.g. flower-style vs. comet-style)
[12:45] <ochosi> knome: are you aroundß
[12:45] <ochosi> knome: are you around?
[12:49] <maddernick> ochosi: when i look at tiled in xfdesk, it seems it means that it blits entire bg even if its too big, so i assume it would repeat the bg if image was very small?
[12:50] <ochosi> yeah
[12:50] <ochosi> but i'd say implementing zoomed is enogh
[12:50] <ochosi> enough
[12:50] <ochosi> because we never will ship a wp so small that it needs to be tiled
[12:50] <ochosi> it's more about handling various resolutions gracefully
[12:50] <maddernick> and zoom and stretch seems to be the same thing (looks identical), so i assume it goes by percentage rather than stretching for real?
[12:51] <ochosi> depends what stretched means for you
[12:51] <ochosi> if stretched = scaled, then stretched != zoomed :)
[12:51] <maddernick> for me, stretch is what we currently have
[12:51] <maddernick> ye
[12:51] <maddernick> i think i have enough info now :>
[12:51] <ochosi> i thought currently we scale the bg
[12:52] <ochosi> zoomed is what vlc does when you say "crop" :)
[12:52] <maddernick> well, the script i link does
[12:52] <maddernick> okay
[12:52] <ochosi> ok, well if your script already crops/stretches/zooms, then that's dandy! :)
[12:53] <maddernick> crop is ratio based
[12:53] <maddernick> which is what i do, but i will investigate anyway
[12:54] <maddernick> basically: ratio of screen, ratio of bg, if screen ratio > bg ratio, produce the scale factor on height, otherwise width
[12:55] <ochosi> yup
[12:55] <ochosi> that makes sense
[12:55] <maddernick> but is that what we want?
[12:55] <maddernick> If so, we can start with spinner :)
[12:56] <ochosi> yeah, i don't see any downsides right now, you?
[12:56] <maddernick> nope
[12:57] <maddernick> Ill make sure to fix the black + animation bug aswell
[12:59] <ochosi> cool
[18:02] <knome> ochosi, now i am
[18:21] <knome> ochosi, maddernick ?
[18:22] <knome> maddernick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/raring_plymouth/circular-throbber.png <- there's a little something for you there. spin it around the image center, and it should be fine
[18:41] <maddernick> knome: under the logo?
[18:42] <knome> maddernick, well, we got to discuss this. that's the reason we didn't go for a circular thobber before (hard to place)
[18:42] <knome> but i suppose you could put it anywhere for PoC
[18:43] <maddernick> okay
[18:43] <knome> i assume it's easy enough to move it later
[19:15] <maddernick> knome: looks like a worm :>
[19:16] <knome> heh
[19:16] <maddernick> let me see if i an upl a video of it
[19:16] <knome> sure
[19:20] <maddernick> knome: http://31.192.230.130:1337/spinner.ogg
[19:20] <knome> lemme see
[19:20] <knome> i suppose that is what ochosi was after
[19:21] <knome> if we want to make it better, i have the sources in svg so it's easy enough to change
[19:21] <maddernick> We can adjust speed etc
[19:22] <knome> yup, i think maybe something slower, but ochosi is the art lead, so i'll let him decide the details
[19:22] <maddernick> okay
[20:02] <ochosi> knome: where did you dig up that worm? :)
[20:06] <knome> ochosi, i created it in inkscape
[20:06] <ochosi> i'm wondering whether it should be so compact
[20:07] <ochosi> i mentioned that before, it's kinda the "comet-style" (as opposed to the "flower-style")
[20:07] <knome> what's the "flower" style?
[20:07] <ochosi> but since it's not fading out on one side it's a very solid block moving
[20:07] <ochosi> the one you have in thunar (or in gtk ftm)
[20:07] <knome> aha
[20:07] <knome> but then you'd have to have another layer on top of that
[20:07] <knome> or sth more complex
[20:08] <ochosi> the "flower"-style is probably easier actually
[20:08] <knome> hmm
[20:08] <knome> i can't see how
[20:08] <ochosi> or not harder at least
[20:08] <maddernick> last time, i was given a circle
[20:08] <ochosi> you only need one image, that has one leaf of the blossom larger
[20:08] <knome> but i can't grasp an idea either
[20:08] <maddernick> a solid circle, and a little dot
[20:09] <maddernick> the dot was rotate around the cricle
[20:09] <knome> aha
[20:09] <ochosi> maddernick: yeah, i remember that now
[20:09] <maddernick> but you both could not agree
[20:09] <knome> well, for me it was mostly the placing
[20:09] <knome> we still have the same problem, but i'm looking forward how ochosi solves that :P
[20:10] <maddernick> i have an idea, that both of you prolly disagree with :P
[20:10] <knome> ochosi, oh right, that flower style. would you prefer that?
[20:10] <knome> maddernick, any idea is welcome
[20:10] <maddernick> what if the circle was AROUND the logo, and the logo a *bit* smaller?
[20:11] <ochosi> knome: probably, at least i'd try to look into it
[20:11] <knome> what if the thing rotating was just like a piece of pie, not the outer edge like now?
[20:11] <ochosi> also, the placement in the video maddernick posted above looks fine to me
[20:11] <knome> should have more padding vs. logo
[20:11] <ochosi> knome: you mean like a radar? :)
[20:11] <knome> yeah, kind of
[20:12] <ochosi> yeah, definitely more padding, but i don't consider the placement critical
[20:12] <ochosi> i mean the general direction is fine
[20:12] <knome> sure, but there's also the question how the fsck progress is shown
[20:12] <knome> and how does all that look with the logo also being circular
[20:13] <knome> maddernick, i think that ^ is a big problem with your suggestion (fsck indicator)
[20:13] <maddernick> indeed, but...
[20:13] <knome> especially if we decide to make it circular too
[20:13] <maddernick> One could replace the circle with a bar
[20:13] <maddernick> if fsck is ran
[20:13] <knome> well, they are separate indicators anyway
[20:13] <maddernick> yes
[20:13] <ochosi> i think the diff between those two indicators is quite drastic:
[20:14] <ochosi> fsck shows actual progress
[20:14] <knome> ochosi, yep.
[20:14] <ochosi> the boot process just shows "activity"
[20:14] <knome> ochosi, i acknoledge that
[20:14] <knome> what if it was just a blinking dot?
[20:15] <knome> for example, a small dot with some blurred edges in the right-bottom corner?
[20:15] <knome> blinking in and out
[20:15] <knome> just an idea.
[20:16] <ochosi> yeah, maybe
[20:16] <knome> that would be the less clutter
[20:16] <ochosi> i'm really open for a lot
[20:16] <knome> least
[20:16] <ochosi> we can also make the logo pulse
[20:16] <ochosi> or just the glow behind the logo
[20:16] <knome> me too. i mean, the circular indicator is kind of... well, i don't know
[20:16] <ochosi> yeah
[20:16] <ochosi> :)
[20:16] <maddernick> that would be quite cool
[20:16] <maddernick> a pulsating logo
[20:16] <knome> in a way that tells people "this might take *so* long, better get some coffee"
[20:16] <ochosi> haha
[20:17] <knome> a pulsating logo might work if it was aligned differently
[20:17] <ochosi> well on some computers it does ;)
[20:17] <ochosi> and it could be just a slight pusle
[20:17] <ochosi> pulse
[20:17] <knome> like centered, on top or bottom of the logotype
[20:17] <knome> slight - would that be visible?
[20:17] <ochosi> not a complete fade-to-black, just something subtle
[20:17] <knome> because the idea is to have visual hint that there's progress
[20:17] <knome> we can't make it too subtle
[20:18] <knome> and there's a slight chance we do that if we start playing with the logo
[20:18] <knome> a circular throbber or a pulsating dot is much much more "sustainable" too
[20:18] <knome> even if we change the logo, that still works
[20:18] <knome> (we're not changing the logo)
[20:19] <knome> and it doesn't get "old"
[20:19] <ochosi> actually ppl who use proprietary drivers only get a static image there anyway
[20:20] <knome> it has worked for me with nvidia
[20:20] <knome> proprietary drivers
[20:20] <ochosi> maybe my laptop boots too fast then
[20:20] <knome> :)
[20:20] <knome> maybe
[20:20] <knome> anyway
[20:20] <knome> bbl
[20:20] <ochosi> but i remember it being a static image before i got the ssd
[20:20] <ochosi> knome: one sec
[20:20] <ochosi> will you be back tonight?
[20:21] <ochosi> i mean, should we try to get this stuff on a wiki page so we don't have to start from 0 each time?
[20:29] <knome> i will
[20:29] <knome> maybe
[20:29] <maddernick> hm
[20:29] <knome> i most probably will be in and out today again; when wife goes to sleep, i'll try to continue my little nürburgring-project :P
[20:30] <maddernick> i have a vid now
[20:30] <ochosi> knome: hehe
[20:30] <ochosi> maddernick: cool, show! :)
[20:31] <maddernick> http://31.192.230.130:1337/blink.ogg
[20:31] <maddernick> just wanted too see how that would look like
[20:31] <ochosi> yeah, not too bad
[20:32] <ochosi> i'd probably just add glow below the logo to make it less "blink" and more "glow", but i think i like the idea
[20:32] <maddernick> it looks better "irl", VLC isnt too kind to my videos :(
[20:32] <ochosi> thought so :)
[20:32] <ochosi> you can try the new parole from git if you want
[20:33] <maddernick> can parole record?
[20:33] <ochosi> oh
[20:33] <ochosi> no, it cant
[20:33] <maddernick> hehe :P
[20:33] <ochosi> i thought you only use that for playback
[20:33] <maddernick> i use VLC to record videos
[20:33] <knome> i'd probably just blink the img-part though
[20:33] <ochosi> why not use a real screencasting-app?
[20:33] <maddernick> it clogs my ~
[20:33] <maddernick> With spam logs
[20:34] <ochosi> rly? i thought kazaam (or whatever) was working quite well
[20:34] <ochosi> knome: img-part of the logo you mean?
[20:34] <knome> i've used recordmydesktop before
[20:34] <maddernick> I tend to use record-my-desktop etc, because I can select a window
[20:34] <knome> ochosi, yup
[20:35] <ochosi> yeah, only making the img-part of the logo glow or pulse sounds good
[20:35] <maddernick> what is the img-part?
[20:35] <maddernick> The mouse?
[20:35] <knome> yeah
[20:35] <knome> the non-text part of the logo
[20:36] <maddernick> i c
[20:36] <knome> lol
[20:36] <knome> that reminds me of a playing maching on a ferry to sweden
[20:36] <knome> named "I C Money" with icey letters
[20:36] <knome> i'm *sure* pun was intended
[20:36] <maddernick> :)
[20:37] <ochosi> hehe
[21:37] <ochosi> knome: say, what would you say if i mirrored the revert-icon horizontally?
[21:37] <ochosi> currently it rather says "reload" instead of "revert" imo
[21:37] <ochosi> (in actions/16/document-revert)
[21:49] <knome> ochosi, can't think of it right now, but will get you back soonish
[21:53] <ochosi> mkay
[23:24] <CryptoFreak> Hello everyone. New community member eager to help :-)
[23:24] <ochosi> hi
[23:25] <ochosi> ... and welcome. always good to see new faces around here
[23:25] <ochosi> what areas do you wanna help with?
[23:26] <CryptoFreak> I can do packaging, coding, marketing, etc. Mostly coding and marketing though.
[23:26] <ochosi> awesome
[23:26] <CryptoFreak> Cool
[23:26] <ochosi> coders and packagers are really needed
[23:26] <knome> hullo! (i'm mostly away from irc for a while now though)
[23:26] <CryptoFreak> Cool. Then I might be able to lend a hand somewhere then :-)
[23:27] <ochosi> knome: you mean "hullo and goodbye"? :)
[23:27] <knome> nah, i mean "hey, i'm here, but don't expect fast replies"
[23:27] <ochosi> CryptoFreak: have you taken a look at xfce's code or anything ubuntu related so far?
[23:28] <ochosi> or better: what's your background, etc :)
[23:28] <knome> huh, something freaky happened. i got kicked out of my session
[23:28] <CryptoFreak> I've looked a bit at xfce and a few things in Ubuntu. But I'm just diving in now
[23:29] <CryptoFreak> Most of my background is userland development. Haven't done much system stuff yet
[23:29] <ochosi> righty
[23:29] <ochosi> that sounds fine though
[23:30] <knome> working with xubuntu is hardly too much system stuff :)
[23:30] <CryptoFreak> True. :-)
[23:30] <ochosi> in xubuntu we don't currently do our own coding projects, we're just too few ppl for that
[23:30] <CryptoFreak> I'm up to going anywhere I can fit in.
[23:30] <ochosi> so in general if we have a project or areas we'd like to improve code-wise, we try to always get it upstream to xfce
[23:30] <ochosi> e.g. parole has been xubuntu's multimedia-player for about 2 years now
[23:31] <ochosi> but development stalled for more than a year and the project looked dead
[23:31] <CryptoFreak> Cool. So what kinds of stuff does the team generally do if not coding?
[23:31] <ochosi> out of our interest we revived it @xfce
[23:31] <ochosi> so now bluesabre and me are maintaining it (although he's doing much more than me :))
[23:31] <CryptoFreak> Ahh  I see
[23:31] <ochosi> that was just an example now
[23:32] <ochosi> in general i'm doing mostly artwork
[23:32] <ochosi> only little tidbits of code
[23:32] <ochosi> actually xubuntu is really upstream-oriented as a distro
[23:32] <sgtmcc> ochosi, when you got a moment got a ?? for you
[23:32] <CryptoFreak> Sounds like an active community though
[23:32] <ochosi> our packagers always look that stuff gets into debian first and then pull it back to xubuntu
[23:32] <ochosi> sgtmcc: sure, ask away
[23:33] <sgtmcc> any advice on the arrow?
[23:33] <ochosi> in what respect?
[23:33] <sgtmcc> Was that done with bezier curves or how was it originally done?
[23:33] <ochosi> just open the 48px version to check :)
[23:34] <ochosi> you don't have to draw it from scratch
[23:34] <sgtmcc> oh...ok...cool
[23:34] <ochosi> you can scale it and try to correctly position it etc
[23:34] <knome> what arrow?
[23:34] <ochosi> line-width is best kept at 1px
[23:34] <ochosi> knome: sgtmcc is helping with icons
[23:34] <knome> ochosi, just fyi, the line-width was better at 0.8 on the 16px refresh icon
[23:34] <ochosi> knome: currently redrawing the 32px document-open-recent icon
[23:35] <knome> but that's only for 16px
[23:35] <ochosi> i know
[23:35] <knome> yup, just saying
[23:35] <ochosi> didn't want to over-complicate things in the beginning :)
[23:35] <ochosi> CryptoFreak: so yeah, any personal itches you want to scratch in xubuntu?
[23:36] <CryptoFreak> lol Probably something silly. But the lack of feedback when clicking an icon drives me nuts 
[23:37] <sgtmcc> ochosi, about to email you the svg, about to go out with the wife for a bit
[23:37] <ochosi> sgtmcc: sure, sounds good
[23:38] <sgtmcc> probably not to scale, might need a tut some time to show me how to scale correctly
[23:38] <ochosi> righty
[23:38] <ochosi> CryptoFreak: you mean e.g. in thunar?
[23:38] <CryptoFreak> ochosi: right
[23:39] <sgtmcc> going away...talk to you all later
[23:39] <ochosi> CryptoFreak: ok, one sec...
[23:39] <ochosi> sgtmcc: have fun, ttyl
[23:40] <ochosi> CryptoFreak: here you go ;) https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1377
[23:41] <CryptoFreak> Hmm, FF isn't letting me access that page. 
[23:41] <ochosi> as you can see, bugs to fix everywhere
[23:42] <CryptoFreak> Very cool. Looks like I'll be able to keep myself busy!
[23:42] <ochosi> ;)