[14:48] <Captain_Crow> does ubuntu 12 have a option for traditional desktop environment?
[14:50] <IdleOne> you can install gnome-panel which is similar to gnome2.
[14:50] <IdleOne> or the "traditional desktop"
[14:51] <Captain_Crow> which version of ubuntu"out of the box" can play dvd movies?
[14:53] <IdleOne> Captain_Crow: out of the box they can't for legal reasons, you can install ubuntu-restricted-extras which will give you support for most all codecs.
[14:56] <Captain_Crow> how is linuxmint able to do it legally, but not ubuntu?
[14:58] <IdleOne> they don't.
[14:58] <IdleOne> they ship with the packages installed and they don't worry about it.
[15:13] <Captain_Crow> so ubuntu will never be able to play dvds out of the box?
[15:13] <IdleOne> Not so long as it is free of charge.
[15:18] <AlanBell> Captain_Crow: the ubuntu ISOs get burned as real CDs, I don't think Mint distribute like that
[15:23] <popey> i wouldn't say "never"
[15:23] <popey> if you buy a computer with a DVD drive and it ships with Ubuntu, then I'm pretty sure we pre-install that stuff
[15:23] <popey> e.g. if you buy a dell you get something like PowerDVD installed
[15:26] <chu> There is the opt-in choice at install (which is obviously necessary for the legal reasons mentioned by IdleOne), which is why I said earlier (i.e. yesterday) that it was possible to play DVDs "out of the box". But, technically it needs to download the package so it's not really "out of the box" per se.
[15:27] <popey> the opt-in choice at install doesn't install dvd playback stuff though
[15:27] <Captain_Crow> what if i have a decade old dell that was owned by several dozen people and dont have an os on it, would ubuntu be a good choice?
[15:27] <popey> it adds codecs, java, flash, fonts
[15:27] <chu> Ahh, I see.
[15:33] <Captain_Crow> so to get a traditional desktop do i need to install gnome-panel, or is there any default options built in?
[15:33] <popey> By default Ubuntu ships Unity
[15:34] <popey> many other desktop options are available
[15:35] <Captain_Crow> i like how it snaps windows to the sides and stuff, does that still work with the other desktops?
[15:36] <chu> Is that a Compiz feature?
[15:42] <AlanBell> Captain_Crow: that works with gnome-shell too
[15:43] <AlanBell> Captain_Crow: I would suggest installing the standard unity desktop and adding gnome-shell if you want an alternative option that is going forward
[15:51] <Captain_Crow> so i need to install the latest ubuntu, and install gnome-shell, and it'll look like a traditional desktop but with unity features?
[15:53] <AlanBell> Captain_Crow: you will get a choice at the login screen whether you want to start a unity session or a gnome session
[15:53] <AlanBell> I don't really know what a traditional desktop is
[15:54] <AlanBell> if you have a tradition of using Windows, or Mac OS, or RiscOS or NeXtStep or OS/2 then it will look somewhat familiar because it uses a WIMP interface :)
[15:56] <AlanBell> if what you want is a widget at the top left or bottom left for starting applications through a hierachical menu then you might like gnome-shell with https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/
[16:18] <Captain_Crow> is there a difference between ubuntu 12.10 and 12.04lts?
[16:25] <Captain_Crow> "Ubuntu 12.10 will be supported for two years and includes cutting-edge  new features that make your music, videos, documents and apps much  easier to access."
[16:25] <Captain_Crow> does "videos" mean 12.10 plays dvds?
[16:25] <chu> They all play DVDs.
[16:26] <Captain_Crow> so between 12.10 and 12.04, which is the better choice?
[16:29] <chu> Depends, do you want bleeding-edge or stability as your first choice? 12.04 is an LTS ("Long-Term Support") version while 12.10 is not. The decision is entirely up to you. Some people tend to use only LTS, others don't mind.
[16:30] <chu> If it's for a server install, you'd obviously want the LTS, for the desktop it (probably) doesn't matter so much.
[16:31] <AlanBell> I would go for 12.10 personally
[16:31] <AlanBell> it isn't bleeding edge, it is a released stable version
[16:31] <AlanBell> 13.04 would be the brave choice :)
[16:32] <AlanBell> I think for new technologies like unity and gnome-shell you probably want the extra 6 months of newness
[16:32] <chu> True, "bleeding-edge" wasn't the correct term, but I had nothing else to use :p
[16:34] <chu> I think it would be wrong to call it a "testing" or "experimental" release, and other than just saying "one's LTS the other's not" not sure how to really characterise the differences.
[16:42] <popey> i use 12.04 on my main laptop
[16:42] <popey> will probably keep it for a while
[16:43] <Captain_Crow> theres a 13.04?
[16:44] <popey> in development yes
[16:44] <AlanBell> Captain_Crow: raring ringtail, the version in development
[16:44] <popey> not recommended for use yet
[16:45] <chu> You can imagine that after 12.10 was released development, started on 13.04 and Canonical aren't going to hold it back from the community until deployment. Release won't be until April next year, so we've still got a little over 4 months.
[16:45]  * AlanBell was installing it yesterday
[16:46]  * AlanBell has a couple of bugs to file
[16:48] <Captain_Crow> does ubuntu cost money now?
[16:48] <popey> no
[16:48] <popey> never will
[16:50] <Captain_Crow> i clicked on "get ubuntu 12.04" its asking me to "pay with paypal"
[16:51] <AlanBell> it is asking if you want to pay for it
[16:52] <AlanBell> Bug #1093303
[16:56] <Captain_Crow> is the ubuntu 12.04 the same ubuntu 12.04 as several months ago?
[16:59] <AlanBell> it will have fixes for things in it
[17:00] <AlanBell> so the way it works is every 6 months we put out a release, that might have a bunch of things in it like gedit 3.6.1 in it for example
[17:00] <AlanBell> if there are any *fixes* to that version of that software then they get updated through the repositories
[17:00] <AlanBell> if gedit 4 comes out with radical new *features* then that goes into the next release of Ubuntu
[17:01] <AlanBell> for 12.04 we would continue providing fixes for 3.6.1 for the next 7 years
[17:02] <AlanBell> so 12.04 now is more fixed than 12.04 was several months ago, but it is still 12.04 with the same versions of pretty much everything in it (except for a couple of things like web browsers)
[17:02] <popey> 5 years, not 7
[17:02] <AlanBell> ah yes, until 2017
[17:04] <AlanBell> so if you want cool new stuff for one PC then use most recent stable version and upgrade every 6 months. If you have a fleet of 2000 desktops you are managing and you want them to perform consistently with each other and you don't have the time to upgrade every 6 months then it is LTS all the way for you.
[20:24] <Captain_Crow> how long should ubuntu 12.04 take to boot from the disk?
[20:27] <AlanBell> Captain_Crow: from the CD? probably about a minute. When installed it boots in less than 10 seconds on SSD and maybe a bit longer on spinning rust
[20:34] <Captain_Crow> oh, i been trying to run it like 20 min at a time and cant even get to the main screen
[20:34] <Captain_Crow> it just loads and loads and loads
[20:36] <AlanBell> that isn't right ;)
[20:37] <AlanBell> so what did you do so far? downloaded the iso image, put it on CD, got the bios to boot from CD?
[20:37] <AlanBell> what did you see on screen? did you get as far as an Ubuntu logo and 5 dots?
[20:38] <AlanBell> and a picture of a keyboard and the vitruvian man?
[20:39] <Captain_Crow> i got to the load screen with 5 dots, im going to try another cd
[20:57] <Captain_Crow> i think it was cause the other cd had a scratch on it
[21:45] <Captain_Crow> i installed "gnome-shell" and went to the user thing and clicked "gnome (classic)" and i dont see any difference
[21:47] <Captain_Crow> nvm, i guess it was a glitch