[05:24] <len-dt> zequence, holstein idjc for internet casting... where in the menu should it end up? Right now it is in networking.
[05:28] <Lump|AFK> that can vary with the os len-dt 
[05:28] <len-dt> it is a mixer more than anything with playlisting and netcasting added to it. It can do local podcast or DJing though there may be better SW for that... on the other hand it is not so picky as MIxxx about video drivers
[05:28] <Lump|AFK> look in internet on some
[05:29] <len-dt> Lump|AFK, I am just thinking about where in our menu it should be.
[05:29] <Lump|AFK> and i am hereish at best
[05:29] <Lump|AFK> well if my 2 cents is worth anything
[05:29] <Lump|AFK> audio
[05:29] <Lump|AFK> that is where i think most would look for it
[05:29] <len-dt> It is certainly an audio application
[05:29] <Lump|AFK> some builds like mint maybe multimedia
[05:30] <len-dt> We have audio production.
[05:30] <Lump|AFK> might be a good thought to add streaming to the production list
[05:30] <Lump|AFK> and list stuff for it there
[05:31] <Lump|AFK> though production certainly makes sense
[05:31] <Lump|AFK> and i am thinking on the fly while doing a few more installs on the other machine
[05:31] <len-dt> We could have a sub menu of audio production for DJing stuff in general.
[05:32] <Lump|AFK> for what it is worth, Tango puts it under Internet as well
[05:32] <Lump|AFK> that makes even more sense len
[05:32] <Lump|AFK> since it really is a blend of internet and production
[05:32] <len-dt> Anything that uses the Deb packages probably would.
[05:33]  * Lump|AFK likes deb
[05:33] <Lump|AFK> but deb don't seem to like idjc on my most recent attempt
[05:33] <Lump|AFK> but, to be fair, i didn't even try and tweak it
[05:34] <len-dt> The desktop file it came with says: Categories=GNOME;Network;
[05:34] <Lump|hereish> i dunno
[05:34] <Lump|hereish> technically correct
[05:34] <Lump|hereish> in the sense that the internet is a network
[05:35] <len-dt> Ya, but I had to go looking for it :) I expected it to be in some audio menu.
[05:35] <Lump|hereish> but most end users would likely, imho, be thinking lan or wan only
[05:35] <Lump|hereish> yeah, i agree
[05:35] <Lump|hereish> i look in audio first for it
[05:35] <Lump|hereish> then internet
[05:35] <len-dt> Network ends up in the Internet menu.
[05:36] <Lump|hereish> a "streaming" option might be the best comprimise
[05:36] <Lump|hereish> then others could add video stuff to it as well
[05:37] <Lump|hereish> but i am not sure how that menu stuff auto sets
[05:38] <Lump|hereish> i am a total noob to dev stuff
[05:38] <Lump|hereish> i just hack stuff as i need
[05:38] <len-dt> Ya, we are trying for the best compromise of stock, where people would look for it and setting the distro specific stuff a little apart.
[05:38] <Lump|hereish> and am thankful there are rooms like this
[05:39] <Lump|hereish> well that in mind, maybe we should think about adding streaming in internet and not audio
[05:39] <len-dt> Most of the menu we have now is mine and zequence work. Based on what was there when we used gnome for a desktop.
[05:39] <Lump|hereish> think about the life streamers
[05:39] <Lump|hereish> the video folks and such
[05:39] <Lump|hereish> they may more likely look in internet
[05:39] <Lump|hereish> not audio
[05:40] <Lump|hereish> oediv
[05:40] <Lump|hereish> drat
[05:40] <len-dt> I can put it in both if it really needs to be
[05:40] <Lump|hereish> i am on the fence on putting stuff in both
[05:40] <Lump|hereish> i like it
[05:40] <Lump|hereish> but i dunno how other feel about it
[05:40] <len-dt> Most of us too.
[05:41] <Lump|hereish> brb
[05:41] <Lump|hereish> i don't mind the recundancy
[05:42] <Lump|hereish> but
[05:42] <Lump|hereish> my BA is in psychology
[05:42] <Lump|hereish> and we could invite memory interference with it and make it less pleasent for the user
[05:42] <Lump|hereish> follow?
[05:43] <Lump|hereish> and i am assuming the goal would be to make it better for the end user
[05:43] <len-dt> If it is confusing where it is, then it should be moved... if it is expected where it is then it should stay... is what we try for.
[05:44] <Lump|hereish> with that in mind, i still think Internet/streaming may have some merit
[05:44] <Lump|hereish> but what you would need is user feedback on it
[05:44] <len-dt> If we were to leave the menu stock, then the multimedia menu would have so much stuff in it nothing could be found.
[05:44] <Lump|hereish> for myself that seems the most logical
[05:44] <Lump|hereish> i know, i have felt that way in past versions
[05:45] <len-dt> Anyway I won't change it tonight.
[05:45] <Lump|hereish> ntl, it is, in how the production happens
[05:45] <Lump|hereish> internet first
[05:46] <Lump|hereish> but still audio
[05:46]  * Lump|hereish hates this keyboard
[05:46] <Lump|hereish> i think it is a remnant from a 286
[05:47] <len-dt> This one is for sure, I buoght if for use with a 286 MB
[05:47] <Lump|hereish> i am installing 11.04 on the dual core atm
[05:47] <Lump|hereish> so i have no synergy
[05:48] <Lump|hereish> this keyboard is pretty close to a typewriter
[05:48] <len-dt> Not that it matters, but what do you use it for?
[05:48] <len-dt> (synergy)
[05:48] <Lump|hereish> I run the single core for irc and use synergy to have only one keyboard and trackball
[05:48] <len-dt> I know what it does, but how does that help with casting?
[05:48] <Lump|hereish> well, i don't have very new machines
[05:49] <Lump|hereish> so spreading the chat load to an older machine, and email and other such stuff helps
[05:49] <Lump|hereish> i let the older machine handle chat and less critical stuff
[05:49] <Lump|hereish> i use the newer, lol, 1999 machine handle the casting and such
[05:50] <len-dt> Mine is new then it is only 8 or 9 years old!
[05:50] <Lump|hereish> i run the lates mint xfce on the single core
[05:51] <Lump|hereish> brb
[05:52] <len-dt> I have a 98 or 99 laptop with a minimal system, but my kids want to play games with it... only 256 meg on the P366
[05:53] <len-dt> When I off load stuff like that I normally either do ssh -Y or ssh in a terminal.
[05:55] <Lump|hereish> back with synergy running
[05:56] <Lump|hereish> len, more or less, it lets me have 4 monitors with one keyboard and mouse, in my case a trackball
[05:56] <len-dt> Ah, you use the monitors connected to the four boxes.
[05:57] <Lump|hereish> no two boxes with nvidia dual heads on each
[05:57] <Lump|hereish> but the same end result
[05:57] <len-dt> OK, but the idea still makes sense that way.
[05:57] <Lump|hereish> exactly
[05:58] <len-dt> I was thinking only one monitor.
[05:58] <Lump|hereish> and synergy was one of the reasons for the upgrade
[05:58] <Lump|hereish> the new mint needs the beta
[05:58] <Lump|hereish> the 10.04 studio did not care for synergy much
[05:58] <Lump|hereish> would crash on shift alt or ctrl
[05:58] <len-dt> On your casting rig do you use voip?
[05:59] <Lump|hereish> not atm
[05:59] <Lump|hereish> i have used skype in the past but teamspeak is more better gooder since i host it on my server
[05:59] <Lump|hereish> atm i use a third PC, either my net book or my GF lappy and just patch it via my old mixer
[06:00] <Lump|hereish> which is why i would like pulse to work
[06:00] <Lump|hereish> ts default is pulse
[06:00] <len-dt> So netspeak is the only non-jack app then
[06:00] <len-dt> Pulse should work.
[06:01] <Lump|hereish> teamspeak, and i am not sure if it non-jack only
[06:01] <len-dt>  I have used it sort of the same
[06:01] <Lump|hereish> from what i read, "in theory" it should
[06:01] <len-dt> I configure the pulse-jack bridge _not_ to autoconnect
[06:01] <Lump|hereish> but, this last build is the first time i tried it in years
[06:02] <Lump|hereish> yeah, that is what i always did in the past
[06:02] <Lump|hereish> are you familar with the ultimate desktop series?
[06:02] <len-dt> Then I set up the connections manually .
[06:02] <Lump|hereish> i haven't tried that
[06:02] <len-dt> The auto connect on mine tries to connect to 10 i/os
[06:03] <Lump|hereish> lost me with 10 i/os
[06:04] <len-dt> It is a real mess.
[06:04] <Lump|hereish> but, in the past, i used to exorcise pulse on studio and tango
[06:04] <len-dt> I have a D66 which is 6 inputs /outputs, but the chip is able to have 12 in and 10 out
[06:05] <Lump|hereish> nice
[06:05] <Lump|hereish> i still use a sblive
[06:05] <Lump|hereish> but i want to get a better card, more likely, external in the future
[06:06] <len-dt> Ok, I have found I have to start jack first.
[06:07] <len-dt> If jack is started as jackd the pulse bridge doesn't start.
[06:07] <Lump|hereish> always start jack first
[06:07] <Lump|hereish> er I always....
[06:07] <Lump|hereish> and not always true
[06:07] <len-dt> my version of idjc will start jack if it is not already running.
[06:07] <Lump|hereish> my issue started when pulse started to enter into the mix
[06:08] <Lump|hereish> and i always start jack first
[06:08] <Lump|hereish> holstein's suggestion on the misc tab helped
[06:09] <Lump|hereish> but i never start idjc with out jack starting first
[06:09] <Lump|hereish> i learned, just like you, the same years ago
[06:09] <Lump|hereish> i don't think any of them will len
[06:09] <len-dt> Ya, thing is the pulse jack bridge takes a lot of CPU. 
[06:10] <Lump|hereish> i don't recall any version of idjc starting jack on the user's behalf
[06:10] <len-dt> If jack is running 10% CPU, adding pulse to the mix makes it go up to 30%
[06:10] <Lump|hereish> tru dat
[06:10] <Lump|hereish> and cpu is one of my limitations
[06:11] <len-dt> CPU use varies with latency
[06:11] <Lump|hereish> that too i get
[06:12] <Lump|hereish> but one of the advantages of being stuck with hardware for years it that you know what to set where with in the limitation
[06:12] <Lump|hereish> tbh honest and fair, my desire for the bridge may likely be a pipe dream
[06:12] <Lump|hereish> but i stil want to explore it
[06:12] <len-dt> with jack/pulse and idjc running I am at about 20%
[06:13] <Lump|hereish> i wish i could say anything close to that
[06:14] <Lump|hereish> with jack, meter bridge, irc (for bot report to channel) and idjc, I do at least 60%
[06:14] <Lump|hereish> then again, i don't fret 100% so long as low latency is running
[06:14] <Lump|hereish> my browser may feeze but the stream usually just keeps going
[06:15] <Lump|hereish> never really an issue unless graphics get laggy
[06:15] <Lump|hereish> and that usually does not happen with 128 kbps mp3s
[06:15] <Lump|hereish> it can happen when i am on the mic
[06:15] <Lump|hereish> but i just improv and talk more
[06:15] <len-dt> I'm now at 30%
[06:16] <len-dt> I have audacious running and feeding the voip input to idjc
[06:17]  * Lump|hereish is envious
[06:17] <len-dt> I am probably not streaming though as I have yet to set it up.
[06:18] <Lump|hereish> i will talk to you about that aspect more shortly after christmas
[06:18] <Lump|hereish> i don't wanna mess anything my tech guy set up
[06:18] <Lump|hereish> but
[06:18] <Lump|hereish> i can set you up with a stream channel to connect to for test purposes
[06:19] <Lump|hereish> i have ten with centanova cast
[06:19] <Lump|hereish> short of your actual pc
[06:19] <len-dt> Ok, but I will set up a server here first to make sure I know what I am about :)
[06:19] <Lump|hereish> it would give you the same exact envirionment i have
[06:19] <Lump|hereish> oh sweat it not len
[06:20] <Lump|hereish> my tech guy is awesome
[06:20] <Lump|hereish> ever hear of Google+ canopy?
[06:21] <Lump|hereish> oops
[06:21] <Lump|hereish> hangout canopy would be the right term
[06:21]  * Lump|hereish don't do hangouts, his PC turns into Linda Blaire
[06:21] <len-dt> Nope.
[06:22] <Lump|hereish> well, more or less, one of his gigs is working for google
[06:22] <Lump|hereish> well enough to have interaction with the chief software engineer
[06:22] <Lump|hereish> which can be taken a number of ways
[06:23] <Lump|hereish> the same engineer actually hailed me a few times
[06:23] <Lump|hereish> which indicates that they are nothing more than really kewl folks
[06:23] <Lump|hereish> all in all, brian is awesome
[06:23] <Lump|hereish> and i can get you a stream channel
[06:24] <Lump|hereish> i just don'e wanna do it and mess up anything he already has set up
[06:24] <Lump|hereish> oh noes.. here it goes again
[06:24] <len-dt> Glad it works, I will probably by the time you are ready tried it on my server and be ready for your's
[06:24] <Lump|hereish> my dog is sleeep yelping
[06:25] <Lump|hereish> he never, never barks or growls
[06:25] <Lump|hereish> except in his sleep and howls
[06:25] <len-dt> Gotta wonder what he is dreaming about...
[06:26] <Lump|hereish> is it within the network rules here to allow one to invite you to another network and channel?
[06:26] <Lump|hereish> he was abused
[06:26] <Lump|hereish> he was a stray
[06:26] <Lump|hereish> and currently an 80 pound puppy
[06:27] <Lump|hereish> i estimate he is about 10 months old, pit/lab mix
[06:27] <Lump|hereish> i figure we found him at about 5-7 months old
[06:28] <Lump|hereish> other than him not knowing just how big he is, he is a darn good dog
[06:30] <len-dt> Hmm, I get xruns when the player switches song
[06:30] <len-dt> nothing I can hear, but Jack shows it.
[06:31] <Lump|hereish> is telling you the latency?
[06:32] <Lump|hereish> I don't get them usually but...
[06:32] <len-dt> 128 frames... about 6ms
[06:32] <Lump|hereish> I try and encode everything i stream at the same exact rates
[06:32] <Lump|hereish> and i toss them in a final music folder
[06:33] <Lump|hereish> your xruns /may/ be idjc dealing with different rates
[06:33] <len-dt> I'm pretty sure these are all 44.1k but I could be wrong as these are all a mix.
[06:33] <Lump|hereish> toss three or four in the queue that you know are exatly the same and then do three that are all diff and see
[06:33] <len-dt> It could be I am trnascoding everything to 48k or something I didn't check.
[06:35] <len-dt> It seems to be right at the end of the fadeout.
[06:35]  * Lump|hereish tries to rethink just how much 6ms is
[06:36] <Lump|hereish> yeah, the fadeout, that is something i have actually been tempted to talk to the developer about
[06:36] <Lump|hereish> that whole 5s, 10s or none crossfader more specifically
[06:37] <Lump|hereish> that would be a nice thing to change regarding idjc
[06:37] <Lump|hereish> off topic granted
[06:37] <len-dt> Even fading to no next tune.
[06:38] <Lump|hereish> hmm
[06:38] <Lump|hereish> that might actually make sense though
[06:38] <Lump|hereish> correct me if my reasoning is wrong
[06:38] <Lump|hereish> I am a PC
[06:39] <Lump|hereish> you give me a track that is encoded at YY rate
[06:39] <Lump|hereish> and the next one is encoded at XX
[06:39] <Lump|hereish> so, on the fade, do i not have two rates to process and then send at, possibly, a different raat
[06:39] <Lump|hereish> er rate
[06:40] <Lump|hereish> in that sense, even if fading to 00
[06:40] <Lump|hereish> it would still be different
[06:40] <Lump|hereish> or am i way off here
[06:41] <Lump|hereish> and i do have to sleep soon
[06:42] <len-dt> Audio rate is always locked to 44.1 k because jack is locked to my preamp which is 44.1k
[06:43] <len-dt> So the player decodes the MP3 to raw audio and then the mixed audio goes to the streamer than encodes to whatever the stream is
[06:43] <Lump|hereish> kk
[06:44] <Lump|hereish> but what happens on the fade if they are originally different rates
[06:44] <Lump|hereish> and i am talking without a player but in idjc queue
[06:45] <len-dt> The idjc que is a player. I get the xrun at change even with no fade.
[06:45] <Lump|hereish> kk
[06:45] <len-dt> I have the second player turned off now.
[06:46] <len-dt> When the other player was playing as voip there was no xrun when that changed tune.
[06:47] <len-dt> Just to bug me there was no xrun that time
[06:47] <Lump|hereish> i dunno for sure
[06:48] <Lump|hereish> too tired
[06:48] <Lump|hereish> need to sleep and i will be back tomorrow
[06:48] <len-dt> Ya hard to know. I should shut it down and try slightly higher latency
[06:48] <Lump|hereish> oh and you get my reply emai?
[06:49] <len-dt> I saw one.
[06:49] <Lump|hereish> abuse my digo
[06:49] <len-dt> Ya thats it
[06:49] <Lump|hereish> er diigo
[06:50] <len-dt> Looked at it a bit.
[06:50] <len-dt> I should go though My YF would like me to spend time there :)
[06:51] <Lump|hereish> ntl, shortly after the holiday most likely, i am pretty sure certain I can get you a stream to test with
[06:51] <len-dt> Ok, catch you whenever.
[06:51] <Lump|hereish> what is my "YF"
[06:52] <Lump|hereish> and are other chat network links allowed here
[06:53] <len-dt> Yf = wife
[06:53] <len-dt> If they make sense I guess.
[06:54] <Lump|hereish> lol
[06:54] <Lump|hereish> kk
[06:54] <Lump|hereish> talk to you again soon
[06:54] <Lump|hereish> nini
[06:54] <len-dt> Good night
[21:29] <scott-work> len-dt: sorry, i've been supa busy with family, work, kids. haven't tested out nautilus or thunar. do you still desire someone to look at it?
[21:29] <scott-work> i can tell you that i have had trouble with nautilus for at least one full cycle if not two.
[21:30] <scott-work> it would seem that i would search for something, it would not find it, i would tell it to search again, and _then_ nautilus would find it
[21:30] <scott-work> taking what you said previous about nautilus only looking in one particular directory (can't remember if it was the /home or the current directory), this makes sense in some ways
[21:31] <scott-work> i am presuming then when i tell it to search again, i was telling it to search the entire computer then
[21:52] <len-dt> scott-work, the nautilus in question is the "files" version in 13.04. It is quite different than 12.10 and 12.04.
[21:54] <scott-work> ah, okay. i have a xubuntu 13.04 and a ubuntu studio 13,04 install. do want to me check on either of those and also check catfish on xubuntu 13.04?
[21:57] <len-dt> scott-work, sure. xubuntu has thunar (well so do we) and when I tried catfish on xubuntu it has the same problem as on US. I think you have 64bit though so that would be good.
[21:58] <scott-work> yes, i have the 64 bit.
[21:58] <scott-work> is catfish using "files" as well?
[21:58] <Lump|AFK> lucky dog you
[21:58] <Lump|AFK> and heyas
[21:58]  * Lump|AFK wants a 64 bit 
[21:58] <len-dt> There is already a bug report on catfish I put in.
[21:58] <len-dt> catfish is a separate program all together.
[21:59] <len-dt> it has it's own interface.
[21:59] <scott-work> okay, wasn't sure if "files" was the backend they were both using
[21:59] <Lump|AFK> isn't catfish just a gui for find and locate?
[22:00] <len-dt> scott-work, zequence  the way to have the file manager open with root permitions is to create a *.desktop file that does so. It can be made so it will work with either nautilus or thunar.
[22:01] <len-dt> Lump|AFK, yes it is, but the new nautilus seems to have lost it's search function so we are looking to replace it.
[22:01] <len-dt> We went from thunar to nautilus because thunar was less stable (seems fixed now) and nautilus had search.
[22:02]  * Lump|AFK would just open up a terminal
[22:02] <Lump|AFK> but i see where you are going
[22:02] <Lump|AFK> hey, ever think of adding easy tag to the build?
[22:02] <len-dt> nautilus now seems way dumbed down and is missing some features as well as having a new GUI to learn.
[22:04] <len-dt> In ubuntu as a whole, the focus is on user experience and so we try to have a gui for anything the "normal" user might want to do.  :)
[22:04] <Lump|AFK> I am not too familar with thunar but i like the fact that you can add commands to it
[22:04] <Lump|AFK> and open as root
[22:04] <Lump|AFK> Mint uses it
[22:04] <len-dt> I was unable to find open as root.
[22:05] <len-dt> ubuntustudio actually has thunar as well
[22:05] <Lump|AFK> i believe you need to add it or enable it
[22:05] <Lump|AFK> it is there on right click in mint
[22:05] <len-dt> I think as I said above it is just a *.desktop file needed to make it work on any file manager.
[22:05] <Lump|AFK> not sure if i added it or that is the way the mint distro came
[22:06] <Lump|AFK> bbiaf, gotta check on the bread
[22:06] <len-dt> I have seen it before, so I know it comes default in some distros. used to be in KDE (at least when I used Slackware)
[22:16]  * Lump|AFK reinstalled 10.04 studio today
[22:16] <Lump|AFK> and guess what
[22:16] <Lump|AFK> absolutely no issue hijacking the stream whatsoever
[22:17] <Lump|AFK> hmmm
[22:17] <Lump|AFK> must not be on the server end eh?
[22:17] <Lump|AFK> i will double check on a few other distros but i hooke up just fine first attempt
[22:17] <len-dt> It may be a newer version of idjc?
[22:18] <Lump|AFK> 0.8.1 
[22:18] <Lump|AFK> which i think is the same as the one in the latest build
[22:18] <Lump|AFK> nvrm
[22:18] <Lump|AFK> i am wrong
[22:18] <Lump|AFK> it is much older actually
[22:19] <Lump|AFK> current build comes with 0.8.7
[22:19] <Lump|AFK> newsest idjc is 0.8.8 but i could not make it on the newest build
[22:19] <len-dt> Ya I was about to say that
[22:19] <Lump|AFK> i actually like the old interface better
[22:21] <len-dt> zequence, the way to make an open as root... is to duplicate exo-file-manager.desktop to root-fileman.desktop and change the exec line from exo-open --launch FileManager %u to gksudo "exo-open --launch FileManager %u"
[22:22]  * len-dt just did and it does work.
[22:22] <len-dt> Lump|AFK, I have never seen the old interface so I don't know.
[22:25] <Lump|AFK> it is not much different than the current except that prefrences, server and jingles are buttons and not a drop down
[22:26] <len-dt> zequence, the first time it is run it asks which application it should use... as root doesn't have this set up.
[22:26] <Lump|AFK> but i use server (now output) and preferences a lot 
[22:26] <Lump|AFK> so i like buttons and not a roll down
[22:26] <len-dt> Lump|AFK, the new one (we don't have) has tabs.
[22:29] <Lump|AFK> i am going to try and install that one soon
[22:32] <Lump|AFK> going to get with my nick again... bbiaf
[23:20] <Lump|AFK> 0.8.4 connects as well in tango studio, again right out of the box, no tweaks cept settings
[23:41]  * Lump|AFK is now officially clueless
[23:41] <Lump|AFK> everything works now
[23:42] <Lump|AFK> every version, every os
[23:42] <Lump|AFK> and, technically, i didn't /fix/ anything
[23:42] <len-1304> \0/
[23:43] <Lump|AFK> well debian don't work but i never really tried to set that up fully
[23:43] <Lump|AFK> most likely missing a dependancy
[23:43] <Lump|AFK> but len, i have no clue what was /fixed/
[23:44] <len-1304> There have been updates in the last two days in 12.04
[23:44] <Lump|AFK> i didn't change a setting on the two builds i was trying to get to work on friday
[23:44] <Lump|AFK> go figure
[23:44]  * len-1304 is going to eat.
[23:44]  * Lump|AFK is going to check on bread and the fire
[23:44]  * Lump|AFK will be back later and maybe actually here then...heh