[04:05] <allan_> hello
[04:13] <daftykins> 0o
[08:27] <dwatkins> mornin
[09:45] <daubers> Morning
[10:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:48] <solarcloud_3scrn> Here's my 27thDec'12 present anyway ... http://goo.gl/7DEur [http://books.slashdot.org/] ... anyone want the xsane-scan ??
[12:37] <penguin42> popey: Hmm that Ouya looks neat, nice physical design, sounds cheap, not sure it'll do much for games, but should work nice to run Linux
[12:41] <solarcloud_3scrn> penguin42, Best thing is .. 'OUYA' is not registered on ebay as a seller name .. so I guess it's all poster's and buyer's market (in mini-HDMI Leads.)
[13:12] <popey> penguin42, yeah, I backed it, so keen to see it succeed
[13:15] <kvarley> popey: Will the Ubuntu ARM version run on that system? Could make a killer TV/Web Browsing box with that 1.6 GHz Quad Core Tegra in it
[13:15] <popey> could do
[13:16] <popey> could be a better set top box than rpi
[13:17] <popey> but I'm more interested in it as a games machine
[13:17] <popey> tricky though given it's not got touch at all, so many games will need some thought
[13:17] <kvarley> popey:  That's just down to lazy devs not considering different input methods so if game devs wake up and start considering stuff it could be very good
[13:18] <popey> not really
[13:18] <popey> Android always was designed for phones and tablets
[13:18] <popey> so not "lazy" for devs to think their games would have a touch screen
[13:18] <kvarley> Yeah but for years now you've been able to have keyboards and mice connected
[13:18] <popey> but nobody does
[13:18] <kvarley> True, lazy was the wrong word. I mean, they may have otherlooked it
[13:19] <popey> nobody connects a keyboard/mouse to their phone!
[13:19] <kvarley> True, I do on my tablet tho
[13:19] <popey> that's only happened in the last 18 months
[13:19] <popey> since the TF101 and friends arrived
[13:19] <kvarley> Thought it was longer, sorry
[13:20] <popey> yeah, feels like it doesn't it?
[13:20] <popey> android seems to move on pretty quick
[13:20] <kvarley> Haha yeah, I'm just happy that Linux based stuff is getting more and more common
[13:20] <kvarley> I keep overlooking how short a time it's actually been prominent in the market
[13:20] <popey> easy to do when you use it daily
[13:22] <kvarley> Interesting project anyway, hope it takes off because it could be really special. The pricetag is very attractive, I know a lot of casual gamers who'd probably be interested. Are you getting a developer edition one?
[13:23] <popey> no
[13:34] <penguin42> popey: Well I suppose the keyboard/mouse thing was there on the early transformers and on the early Toshiba netbook thing
[13:34] <popey> yeah, the AC100 didn't even have a touch screen
[13:35]  * popey looks at the ac100 under his desk
[13:35] <penguin42> yeh, that's why it died a death
[13:35] <penguin42> popey: Thing is the ARM stuff moves pretty quickly so those guys are going to have to make sure it lands on time, otherwise it's going to look **yawn** compared to quad A15 things with more RAM etc
[13:37] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[13:40] <popey> yeah
[13:40] <bashrc> it's a shame that netbooks are apparently dead.  I use one quite regularly
[13:46] <Daviey> popey: I didn't know you have an ac100
[13:46] <popey> yeah, it's running ubuntu for testing compiz on arm
[13:46] <Daviey> popey: Japanese keyboard?
[13:46] <popey> no, uk
[13:47] <Daviey> !
[13:47] <Daviey> How the heck did you get that?
[13:47] <Daviey> we had to get ours from Japan IIRC
[13:48] <popey> ebay 2nd hand
[13:48] <Daviey> ah
[13:49] <Daviey> i wouldn't taint myself with second hand wares. :)
[13:49] <popey> model AC100-10U
[13:49] <popey> tempted to make it an all-text machine
[13:49] <popey> remove the GUI completely and just use text based apps
[13:50] <Daviey> Model: PDN01-00HO1C
[13:50] <Daviey> mine has X, but is mostly accessed via ssh TBH
[14:58] <DJones> Why doesn't copying 300Gb to an external USB drive happen instantly...I've run out of patience, I want to get it properly installed, but need to wait until I've copied a stack of data over
[14:58] <penguin42> because it's a USB-2 spinny disk?
[15:01] <DJones> Heh
[16:30] <celesteh> So I tried clicking the upgrade button on the update manager to go to 12.0.4 and it sort of worked, but a bunch of my programmes are broken. So I downloaded a disk image to reinstall from the DVD instead. The disk is teling me that if I reinstall, it will delete all my photos and data. Does it actually wipe out my home directory?  I've made a backup, but would really prefer it if I could just keep the home dir. Does anybody have exp
[16:30] <celesteh> erience with this?
[16:43] <popey> celesteh, hi
[16:44] <popey> if you reinstall and choose to manually partition and choose _not_ to format the partition, it will reinstall over the top, keeping whatever you have in /home
[16:45] <celesteh> cheers, popey.  when it asks me to create a user later on, do i have to make sure to pick a new user name?
[16:45] <popey> no, use the same username and password as your previous install
[16:54] <celesteh> cheers!
[16:58] <Azelphur> my nexus 4 arrived
[16:58]  * Azelphur does happy dance
[17:00]  * MartijnVdS waits for an LTE Nexus
[17:15] <Azelphur> and already got a buyer for my Galaxy S3, 3 hour turn over xD
[18:48] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: nexus 4 is already kind-of LTE, but it only supports half the frequencies
[18:48] <ali1234> so it only works in some countries on some providors
[18:50] <Azelphur> ali1234: it is? interesting
[18:51] <ali1234> you need rom hack too of course
[18:51] <Azelphur> cool
[18:51] <ali1234> LTE is rubbish anyway
[18:51] <Azelphur> yea, it's a bit useless in this country as of yet
[18:51] <ali1234> over priced, over hyped
[18:51] <Azelphur> I ain't payin £40/mo for mobile
[18:51] <Azelphur> £12.90 is more my speed :P
[18:52] <ali1234> it won't actually improve speeds for individuals anyway, not when everyone has it
[18:53] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:54] <ali1234> Azelphur: what app were you using to play with NFC?
[18:54] <Azelphur> ali1234: to read credit cards? squareless
[18:55] <ali1234> is it free?
[18:55] <Azelphur> yep
[19:12] <ali1234> Azelphur: it does not work on my cards
[19:12] <ali1234> it makes a funny noise when i move the card near but then it says "read failed"
[19:16] <Azelphur> ali1234: might not be holding it near it for long enough, it can be fiddly
[19:16] <Azelphur> it's worked on every credit card I've tried
[19:22] <ali1234> did you find somehwre to buy blank nfc tags?
[19:23] <Azelphur> ali1234: nope
[19:23] <ali1234> rapidnfc.com looks good they have all kinds of stuff with nfc tags in them
[19:27] <Azelphur> nice
[19:29] <brobostigon> blackadder the third, bbc2, now, :)
[20:13] <Azelphur> Anyone know how I can tell if my computer is connected on 802.11g or 802.11n?
[20:13] <Azelphur> Trying to debug a network speed issue, doing ssh root@dd-wrt cat /dev/zero and only getting 40-400KB/sec mostly
[20:15] <penguin42> something like iwconfig?
[20:15] <Azelphur> says it's connected at 144.4Mb/s with a link quality of 65/70
[20:15] <dwatkins> you could test with netcat to rule-out the encryption as the cause
[20:16] <Azelphur> dwatkins: how would I do that? :P
[20:16] <dwatkins> or ttcp, that's even easier Azelphur - are the machines accessible directly, i.e. can you open a port on one that's visible on the other?
[20:17] <Azelphur> dwatkins: I got my computer (Linux) connected to a DD-WRT router
[20:17] <Azelphur> that's what I'm using to test, although my end goal is to make 1080p streaming work off my HTPC
[20:17] <directhex> Azelphur, intel wifi?
[20:17] <Azelphur> Belkin Components F5D8053 N Wireless USB Adapter v1000/v4000 [Ralink RT2870]
[20:18] <dwatkins> Azelphur: do you have another machine on the same network to test with?
[20:18] <Azelphur> yes
[20:18] <Azelphur> not sure if my laptop does N, I'll take a look.
[20:20] <popey> I'd just click on network manager and connection info
[20:20] <popey> to see what speed it's connected at
[20:21] <popey> or run nm-tool
[20:21] <dwatkins> ethtool should tell the link speed, too
[20:21] <dwatkins> ...if you're a command line junkie like me ;)
[20:22] <Azelphur> my laptop only connects at 54mb/sec, but it gets 1MB/sec throughput with ssh cat /dev/zero
[20:22] <Azelphur> although it is very spikey, much like how it is with my PC only a bit faster
[20:23] <Azelphur> looking very similar basically, so the problem is likely in the router
[20:24] <Azelphur> guess I'll update dd-wrt and see if that resolves it
[20:25] <dwatkins> ah, it's called 'nttcp' now
[20:25] <dwatkins> that should test the bare throughput
[20:26] <popey> i use iperf to test connections
[20:26] <Azelphur> or not, seems I'm already on the latest build
[20:27] <dwatkins> I'm using wireless 'n' but also 100 MBit, so I only get about 5 Megabytes per second between machines.
[20:28] <Azelphur> yea, I'd be fine if I could stream 1080p video via lan :P
[20:28] <dwatkins> I can stream 1080p on this connection.
[20:29] <dwatkins> ooh, nice - iperf gives much easier to read output, cheers popey
[20:29] <Azelphur> yea I'm in the process of trying out iperf :P
[20:30] <Azelphur> 2.26mbit/sec between me and my HTPC
[20:30] <Azelphur> although my HTPC is only connected at 802.11g
[20:31] <ali1234> 1080p is a massive bandwidth hog
[20:31] <penguin42> Azelphur: How's the TV?
[20:31] <Azelphur> penguin42: the 55"? it's good, I like it
[20:31] <Azelphur> I hooked up XBMC and it's all going well
[20:31] <penguin42> cool - I need to forcibly find some more wall room
[20:31] <Azelphur> it takes like 15 seconds to turn on which is a little annoying.
[20:31] <popey> ouch
[20:31] <penguin42> Azelphur: So does our Sony
[20:32] <penguin42> Azelphur: I think that's it's Linux boot for some reason
[20:32] <Azelphur> most of that is showing a furrion logo, which is odd seens as it's not even a smart TV.
[20:32] <ali1234> does it have freeview? (of course it does)
[20:32] <ali1234> that epg takes a while to boot up...
[20:33] <Azelphur> yea it does
[20:33] <ali1234> even my monitor takes about 5 seconds to turn on
[20:34] <penguin42> please wait: percolating naval
[20:34]  * penguin42 blames it all on Flash
[20:35] <penguin42> (the hardware not the software)
[20:35] <ali1234> where does that "please wait: reticulating splines" gag come from?
[20:35] <ali1234> oh right, sim city 2000, of course
[20:36] <Azelphur> just timed it, 16.6 seconds to turn on
[20:36] <soreau> Azelphur: nice
[20:36] <Azelphur> that's not from cold, that's from standby
[20:36] <soreau> aw
[20:36] <Azelphur> lol
[20:37] <ali1234> that's not bad for a completely unoptimized linux firmware
[20:38] <Azelphur> but yea I'm happy with it, and most of the people who see it think it's awesome
[20:38] <Azelphur> definitely good bang for buck at only £400 :P
[20:38] <penguin42> nod, I really don't have room for it unfortunately
[20:38] <Azelphur> when someone tells me I don't have room for screens I buy more screens
[20:39] <ali1234> well a jumbo jet is awesome too, doesn't mean i want one in my living room :P
[20:39] <Azelphur> haha
[20:39] <penguin42> Azelphur: Well I think I'd have to move the door to get enough wall space for it
[20:39] <Azelphur> it looks fine :P
[20:39]  * penguin42 wonders what the size of a 1920x1080 pixel is on a 55" set
[20:40] <Azelphur> I'm uploading a photo of it now
[20:40] <ali1234> 33^2 + 44^2 = 55^2
[20:41] <Azelphur> oh wait I already have some of up close
[20:41] <ali1234> except it's 16:9
[20:41] <penguin42> good try :-)
[20:41] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ua8iy2hp6z8ytw/2012-12-27%2004.49.39.jpg?m
[20:41] <Azelphur> (good news everyone, I've made an invention that displays IRC highlights on my TV!")
[20:42] <Azelphur> but also gives you a good idea what it looks like :p
[20:42] <penguin42> 40dpi?
[20:43] <ali1234> (16*x)^2 + (9*x)^2 = 55^2 -> x = 2.996
[20:43] <penguin42> nod and *16=47.9
[20:43] <penguin42> then 1920/47,9 gives 40
[20:43] <ali1234> yeah, 40dpi
[20:44] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ua8iy2hp6z8ytw/2012-12-27%2004.49.39.jpg?m is what it looks like from the couch (excuse the mess, just moved in and still unpacking/sorting things :p)
[20:45] <ali1234> 0.6mm
[20:46] <soreau> Azelphur: It's the same link. Copy/Paste error?
[20:46] <Azelphur> whoops
[20:47] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6si28g9slvjw55x/2012-12-28%2020.40.23.jpg
[20:47] <soreau> Azelphur: Oh yea, you need to clean your room sir
[20:47] <ali1234> lol
[20:47] <ali1234> i was just about to say the same thing
[20:47] <Azelphur> indeed, I'm sorting through all the boxes of stuff, havn't really got any storage units to put anything into yet
[20:48] <Azelphur> ikea is set to deliver me some drawers and stuff after new years, then I'll have places to put things
[20:48] <Azelphur> kinda hard to tidy up in an unfurnished apartment :p
[20:48] <soreau> excuses
[20:48] <Azelphur> "this goes...on the floor...that goes...on the other floor"
[20:48] <soreau> heh
[20:49] <penguin42> Azelphur: Of course with a TV that big you could just hide it all behind it
[20:49] <Azelphur> penguin42: true
[20:49] <Azelphur> "these cloths go in the chest of---floor."
[20:49] <penguin42> or at that price just buy a few more and make a false wall
[20:49] <Azelphur> xD
[20:49] <Azelphur> haha
[20:50] <penguin42> hmm, you could do a 'cave' - i.e. a 5 sided cube with your head in the middle
[20:50] <Azelphur> penguin42: you havn't seen the desk I've got on the way from ikea :P
[20:50] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/layout.png
[20:51] <penguin42> hmm, not IPs, hmm what are those numbers?
[20:51] <penguin42> w/h/d ?
[20:51] <Azelphur> ikea part numbers
[20:51] <penguin42> ah
[20:51] <penguin42> I thought they just called everything Fnuglehurfs or something
[20:51] <Azelphur> they have names too
[20:51] <Azelphur> all of that is galant
[20:52] <penguin42> (That's probably very unfamily friendly in some language, in which case I apologise)
[20:53] <Azelphur> but yea when the desk arrives I'll have lots of space to put things
[20:53] <popey> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/categories/departments/workspaces/18960/
[20:53] <popey> galant!
[20:53]  * soreau stomps off in disgust
[20:53] <Azelphur> don't hate my galant :o
[20:54] <Azelphur> was the only thing I could find that would give me the shape I wanted at reasonable quality
[20:54] <Azelphur> and a sane price
[20:54]  * penguin42 has contiplas and the metal wall strips+brackets
[20:55] <Azelphur> hehe I'm not much on DIY so didn't like the ikea of my first project being a desk to hold ~£2000 worth of computer equipment
[20:55] <Azelphur> s/ikea/idea
[20:55] <penguin42> nod
[20:56] <penguin42> apparently you can get old 'brown' furniture quite cheaply - some of it's built like a tank; I'd be tempted to use that
[20:56] <Azelphur> yea, the stuff I ordered is the black/brown ikea galant :p
[20:56] <penguin42> Azelphur: I was thinking more about pre-50s real wood stuff that's way out of fashion
[20:58] <Azelphur> ah
[20:58] <Azelphur> doubt I could get anything in that shape though, it actually measures down to a few mm off the sides of the room
[20:58] <Azelphur> perfect fit :p
[21:03] <popey> we have a fair amount of ikea furniture, it's worked out well for us
[21:09] <Azelphur> good to hear :D
[21:35] <Azelphur> I'm trying to connect to sipgate (port 5060 UDP) but my brother has that port forwarded to himself, any suggestions on how I can workaround this?
[21:36] <penguin42> Azelphur: Get  your brother drunk and reconfigure your router?
[21:36] <Azelphur> haha, nah, he has those ports forwarded for the exact same reason i want them
[21:37] <Azelphur> and, I'm borrowing his internet connection until mine gets activated in February, so he gets priority.
[21:50] <daftykins> Azelphur: router is too rubbish to forward an alternate one is it?
[21:50] <daftykins> differing source and destination ports i mean
[21:51] <Azelphur> it's a client rather than a server
[21:51] <Azelphur> I need to connect to port 5060 elsewhere, so there can only ever be one port involved
[21:51] <daftykins> ah
[21:51] <Azelphur> and the routers NAT is crap in that it doesn't work properly making it break :P
[21:53] <daftykins> my minds drawing a blank
[21:54] <Azelphur> fun
[21:55] <daftykins> today we mourn the loss of my Pioneer optical drive, in my desktop
[21:55] <daftykins> no longer is it detected :(
[21:55] <Azelphur> may it rest in pieces (throw it out the window for fun)
[21:56] <daftykins> ^_^
[22:00] <daftykins> is it me or was Ubuntu 10.4.4 too old to handle a SATA device being plugged in after boot? (LiveCD mode)
[22:03] <mgdm> Unity's alt-tab thing is not exactly intuitive :(
[22:10] <daftykins> this is amusing http://i.imgur.com/JqdVT.jpg
[22:10] <Azelphur> haha
[23:02] <ali1234> that's great
[23:03] <ali1234> i want a tiny couch for inside my computer now
[23:04] <ali1234> Azelphur: what you need is a asterisk server to recieve incoming sip calls and then forward them to which ever computer... i guess... i never used sip
[23:04] <Azelphur> sounds long and complicated, probably better to just wait till feb when my net comes back \o/
[23:04] <ali1234> yes
[23:04] <ali1234> nobody uses sip anyway
[23:04] <ali1234> just get skype
[23:05] <ali1234> speaking of skype, i wish canonical would just license the collabora skype stuff and integrate it properly into empathy
[23:05] <ali1234> i might actually use empathy if they did that
[23:05] <ali1234> of course collabora already integrated it, i mean integrate it properly into ubuntu
[23:07] <daftykins> Microsoft haven't stopped Skype updating the Linux client then?
[23:07] <ali1234> no, not that it matters
[23:07] <ali1234> the collabora stuff doesn't need the skype client running that's why it is great
[23:08] <daftykins> why avoid it?
[23:08] <ali1234> it uses the libskype, which is only available under a specific paid license
[23:08] <ali1234> because the client is horrid
[23:08] <ali1234> it doesn't integrate properly into anything else
[23:08] <ali1234> did you ever use a N900?
[23:09] <daftykins> the old school Nokia phone? nah
[23:09] <ali1234> notice that when you get a telephone call vs a skype call, the UI is exactly the same?
[23:09] <ali1234> and a single address book too
[23:09] <ali1234> you don't even have to think about it
[23:09] <ali1234> same for skype chat vs text messaging vs anything else
[23:09] <ali1234> they all appear in one place
[23:10] <daftykins> i'm not sure that's important to me right now
[23:10] <ali1234> well if you dn't use skype it wouldn't be
[23:10] <daftykins> i have done but don't really plan to skype from my mobile?
[23:10] <ali1234> or if you don't use anything else but skype
[23:10] <daftykins> i do on the desktop
[23:10] <daftykins> i've got irssi, Pidgin for MSN and Skype open right now
[23:10] <ali1234> N900 is a desktop practically
[23:11] <ali1234> it uses empathy
[23:11] <ali1234> i'm 99% sure it uses the collabora libs, but they will never admit it
[23:11] <daftykins> so it's all about having all your chat protocols in one client?
[23:11] <ali1234> yes
[23:12] <ali1234> because why would you want to use 3 different clients all with different interfaces?
[23:12] <ali1234> the amazingly good skype integration on N900 is basically it's killer feature
[23:12] <daftykins> more through lack of choice :) or effort to find anything
[23:13] <ali1234> nobody cares about having X11 on a phone, seriously
[23:13] <ali1234> hardly anyone even cares about having it on the desktop any more
[23:14] <popey> +1
[23:14] <ali1234> "android isn't linux because it doesn't use X11" <- words of silly people
[23:14] <popey> heh
[23:14] <daftykins> i'm not really sure how we got onto that topic from what came before
[23:15] <ali1234> i was saying ubuntu should license the same skype integration that wen into the maemo, because it's awesome and it will sell ubuntu
[23:17] <ali1234> put it in the software center for paid if necessary, i don't care
[23:17] <ali1234> just save me from the stupid skype UI
[23:20] <daftykins> 303GB free of 5TB :(
[23:21] <daftykins> 4 years later, another RAID setup at the end of its' life
[23:21] <penguin42> 4 years isn't a bad life I guess - how many drives?
[23:21] <penguin42> youch 28m to build an ubuntu kernel
[23:22] <ali1234> delete stuff
[23:22] <penguin42> (124 mins of cpu time)
[23:23] <daftykins> yeah, probably will delete bad films etc :)
[23:23] <daftykins> 6 disk that one, RAID 5 naturally
[23:23] <ali1234> am i the only person who has only 1 hard disk?
[23:23] <ali1234> (per computer)
[23:23] <penguin42> ali1234: I think it's just down to us two
[23:24] <ali1234> i am getting good at data recovery
[23:24] <penguin42> ali1234: Although even I've got an SSD as well in my main machine
[23:24] <daftykins> lol one?
[23:24] <ali1234> i know ext3 inside out
[23:24] <ali1234> i haven't had an ext4 drive die yet
[23:24] <penguin42> ali1234: If you've got multiple machines, then rsync is very good!
[23:25] <ali1234> i back up to the cloud
[23:25] <daftykins> i've got an rsync setup for backing up a clients data to external HDDs over USB 2.0, i find it takes forever
[23:25]  * penguin42 backs just the critical stuff up to a small insignificantly sized usb stick, but very rarely
[23:25] <daftykins> i was hoping it'd quickly look at the files missing, copy those and be done
[23:25] <penguin42> daftykins: It has to figure out which are missing
[23:26] <daftykins> sure but this takes hours
[23:26] <penguin42> have they got many zillions of files ?
[23:27] <daftykins> one set is a photo collection
[23:27] <penguin42> but those are a few MB each?
[23:27] <ali1234> i found rsync is quite fast at finding the missing files
[23:27] <daftykins> yep
[23:27] <daftykins> when i ran it in verbose mode, it seemed to be looking at every individual file in quite some detail
[23:28] <penguin42> daftykins: That's odd, I wonder if you've got something else that's causing problems with the modification dates on the files
[23:28] <daftykins> i took to running it in a screen session overnight to go back and check on
[23:28] <penguin42> daftykins: Maybe something adding tags to the photos or the like?
[23:28] <ali1234> if i ls -lR > foo.txt the directory i have to rsync, it takes several minutes - hours
[23:28] <daftykins> shouldn't be
[23:28] <ali1234> but rsync starts transfering files immediately
[23:28] <ali1234> i don't know how it does it
[23:29] <daftykins> maybe rsync does a lot more than i need it do
[23:29] <daftykins> s/do/to/
[23:29] <penguin42> for me it's normally quite sane - it does take  a little while to start for me, but never long
[23:30] <penguin42> daftykins: Are both filesystems ext or is one fat?
[23:30] <daftykins> XFS -> EXT4
[23:30] <penguin42> I'd like to blame XFS, but I can't actually think of a reason to
[23:31] <daftykins> i chose it for his RAID as i heard it was good for large files
[23:31] <ali1234> it is good for deleting large files
[23:31] <ali1234> i always use it for my mythtv
[23:31] <daftykins> heh
[23:31] <ali1234> because deleting a 4GB file on ext4 takes forever
[23:31] <ali1234> and hammers the disk
[23:31] <ali1234> mythtv has that option "delete slowly" for this reason
[23:32] <penguin42> oh, is that still an issue on ext4 - hmm
[23:32] <daftykins> what does it do? zero the LBAs? XD
[23:33] <ali1234> penguin42: dunno, might be ext4 only
[23:35] <ali1234> i mean ext3
[23:35] <ali1234> apparently ext4 extents fixes it
[23:37] <penguin42> ah good