[00:04] <user82> !info linux-image
[07:38] <Fudge> hi
[12:11] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:15] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha BluesKaj
[12:15] <BluesKaj> hi MrChrisDruif
[12:15] <MrChrisDruif> How's it going BluesKaj ?
[12:17] <BluesKaj> not bad ,..fighting off a cold
[12:17] <MrChrisDruif> Get well soon I'd say =)
[12:22] <BluesKaj> thanks , just tried 13.04 again , ubiquity stalls ...I have to boot the live cd with noacpi and nomodeset in order to get a desktop , but the install doesn't do anything
[12:24] <BluesKaj> I'm begining to think 13.04 won't work on this pc, ever
[12:24] <BluesKaj> but it's still early in the game
[12:26]  * penguin42 has a kernel bug on +1 on this machine; Radeon driver falls to bits, in admittedly odd circumstances, but I can't get it to happen on the Quantal kernel, I've been trying to bisect it but nothing jumps out
[12:29] <MrChrisDruif> That's a bummer BluesKaj
[12:29] <BluesKaj> been exploring arch-linux , it's ok but it's not my cuppa tea either
[12:31] <BluesKaj> a lotta work for a very ordinary OS , IMO
[12:31] <MrChrisDruif> BluesKaj; I'm running Fedora tbh
[12:34] <BluesKaj> still using 12.10 on my main drive , as soon as the 3.7 kernel doesn't balk at my HW I'll install 13.04 on the 2nd HDD
[16:41] <smallfoot-> When will alpha/beta will be available?
[16:42] <penguin42> smallfoot-: There is an alpha disc already of kubuntu/edubuntu but it looks like there will only be one pre-release disc for main ubuntu, you can get dailies however
[16:42] <smallfoot-> why there is no betas for main ubuntu?
[16:43] <smallfoot-> is it because canonical want to hide the development from the community?
[16:43] <smallfoot-> it does not seem in line with the spirit of open source
[16:45] <penguin42> smallfoot-: Yeh it's a bit odd and I don't know (and as a Kubuntu user don't really mind); having said that the dailies are still there so it's not really hidden unless some large change happens at the last moment (e.g. like the amzon stuff did last time)
[16:47] <smallfoot-> okie
[16:47] <smallfoot-> is it possible to upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04, or do i need download daily and reinstall?
[16:58] <smallfoot-> Python 2.7 is still in Ubuntu 13.04 repo, will it be dropped?
[16:58] <jtaylor> no
[16:58] <jtaylor> it will be a long long time until it can be dropped
[17:02] <jtaylor> you can upgrade to 13.04
[17:04] <smallfoot-> okay, because I earlier heard it would be dropped
[17:04] <smallfoot-> I see
[17:04] <smallfoot-> If there any page that documents the new features and changed introduced to 13.04 and what features will be added?
[17:04] <smallfoot-> Fedora seem to document this very transparent and clearly
[17:05] <jtaylor> yes thats neat in fedora
[17:05] <jtaylor> there are release notes in ubuntu
[17:05] <smallfoot-> Anywhere I can find information about upcoming release of Ubuntu 13.04?
[17:05] <jtaylor> but they mostly concern stuff in main
[17:05] <smallfoot-> Oh, where can I find release notes for 13.04
[17:06] <jtaylor> I'm not aware they have started already
[17:06] <smallfoot-> okie
[17:07] <smallfoot-> Nope, not at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop 404 :(
[18:54] <smallfoot-> its rather weird that .deb files get opened with Ubuntu Software Center :s
[18:56] <bjsnider> you can open them with gdebi if you install it
[18:56] <smallfoot-> yeah, gdebi makes more sense
[18:56] <smallfoot-> I don't understand why they changed it
[18:57] <penguin42> smallfoot-: Probably just to reduce the number of things installed by default
[18:57] <smallfoot-> I see, but to the end-user, I think gdebi makes more sense
[18:57] <smallfoot-> kinda confusing that Ubuntu Software Center open when you open a .deb file
[18:58] <FernandoMiguel> agreed
[18:58] <IdleOne> makes perfect sense to me. The Software Center is the suggested method of installing software.
[18:59] <smallfoot-> but it seems Software Center is an app store, a place where you go to fetch/get/download apps
[18:59] <IdleOne> Think of it as a reminder "Why you downloading random .deb when you should be searching the software center first!?"
[18:59] <smallfoot-> because things are slow to get put into repo, and its outdated old software
[18:59] <IdleOne> the software center is a software center which also has an app store feature.
[19:00] <IdleOne> smallfoot-, to an experienced user it may seem odd, but Ubuntu is being made for the Every Day user.
[19:00] <smallfoot-> opening a .deb file in software center can lead the user to falsely believe the software is located or available from the app store
[19:00] <IdleOne> how so, they downloaded that .deb from $random site
[19:01] <smallfoot-> yeah, then they open it in Software Center, and thinks "huh, its in app store?"
[19:01] <IdleOne> in the time it took for the software center to load they already forgot where they got the .deb?
[19:01] <FernandoMiguel> smallfoot-: I'm still bored usbx is 6 month old
[19:01] <smallfoot-> well software center loads kinda slow
[19:01] <FernandoMiguel> had to use fedora to update my phone
[19:01] <IdleOne> for you perhaps
[19:01] <penguin42> smallfoot-: I've not looked at what happens; but if it's not clear where the deb has come from, then I'd agree that it needs some better wording
[19:02] <smallfoot-> I think .deb should act more like clicking on a .msi file on Windows
[19:02] <smallfoot-> I think .deb should act like it did before, when it used gDebi
[19:02] <IdleOne> penguin42, How could it not be clear? if You downloaded the file from some site, how do you not know where the file came from? and if that is so, then I would say you have larger problems to worry about than where a file came from :)
[19:03] <penguin42> IdleOne: Perhaps smallfoot is worried about being fooled by things that cause a .deb to be downloaded
[19:03] <smallfoot-> IdleOne, because you start wondering "is it installing the .deb file I clicked on, or did it find the same or similar in the app store and want me to install that?"
[19:04] <IdleOne> that is a possibilty I suppose but afaik the software center asks for sudo password, if the software center is loading and you don't know why, don't put in your password.
[19:04] <IdleOne> The point here is that you can't rely on any application to keep you secure.
[19:05] <IdleOne> you're the admin and you need to know why something is happening before you allow it to happen
[19:06] <smallfoot-> I do know, its just that I find opening .deb files with app store is confusing
[19:06] <smallfoot-> because I want to install the software, not use the app store or browse the app store
[19:06] <bazhang> smallfoot-, so use the command line
[19:07] <smallfoot-> of course I can use the command line, I can also use software-center, its just the normal way is to double click on .deb, and then software-center opens which is confusing at least to me, maybe to others too, i think gdebi was better
[19:07] <penguin42> IdleOne: It's not a bad idea to be pretty explicit when doing something more dangerous; I've not looked to see what it looks like, but if it doesn't make it clear that's what's happening I can see it being reasonable to ramp it a bit
[19:07] <IdleOne> because you are holding on to antiquated way of doing things perhaps. The regular user does not want to use the terminal. They want GUI. Good thing that gdebi is still available to old users who insist on keeping things the same.
[19:08] <bazhang> smallfoot-, if you dont like it, or are confused by it, then dont use it.
[19:08] <IdleOne> penguin42, I agree, more info is better.
[19:08] <smallfoot-> yeah, gdebi is great
[19:08] <smallfoot-> bazhang, but am rly smart, so i can use it any way, i just find it a bit confusing but thats np for me, but maybe for other users
[19:08] <penguin42> smallfoot-: It's wrong to have to have two GUIs if you can have one just on a space/ram/disk principal - if you like cli then fine, if you want GUI then fine; there's nothing stopping you installing gdebi and changing the binding
[19:09] <IdleOne> A new user won't find it confusing because they don't know about gdebi in the first place.
[19:09] <bazhang> smallfoot-, thats not really a raring issue is it now?
[19:09] <smallfoot-> okay I see
[19:09] <bazhang> ...
[19:10] <IdleOne> I have something to complain about and I am right because I said so!
[19:10] <bazhang> he has a habit of that
[19:10] <IdleOne> oh, wait. yeah ok you all have a bunch of good points.
[19:11]  * BluesKaj finds the terminal a lot handier than using a gui package manager\
[19:11] <IdleOne> I think when someone is about to complain about something new, they need to put themselves in the seat of a brand new user who is seeing it for the first time and also think about gaining market share.
[19:11] <IdleOne> BluesKaj, I agree, but we aren't building Ubuntu for the old hats now are we :)
[19:12] <BluesKaj> and I'm an old timer but not a linux oldtimer :)
[19:12] <IdleOne> yeah, but you been around long enough to be considered an old time linux user by now
[19:13] <BluesKaj> I understand the need for a gui ..my daughter is trying kubuntu 12.10 and she prefers the gui apps and managers
[19:14] <BluesKaj> she was a mac user so linux is slightly more familiar in some ways than windows
[19:14] <BluesKaj> especially kde
[19:17] <BluesKaj> I hope the 3.7 kernel is modded/patched soon
[19:18] <penguin42> BluesKaj: I don't see it happening without being able to track down more of what is wrong for you; as I say it's fine for most of us
[19:18] <BluesKaj> installed ok on the intel cpu laptop on 12.10
[19:19] <BluesKaj> seems to be a problem with amd 64bit
[19:19] <penguin42> BluesKaj: It's not; I'm running 64bit fine
[19:19] <penguin42> I also know someone with early 64bit Pentium with problems
[19:20] <BluesKaj> penguin42, hmm, then it's gotta be the hardware , perhaps my graphics , nvidia 8400gs
[19:20]  * penguin42 is always eager to blame nVidia hardware....
[19:21] <BluesKaj> hehe yeah ...ati graphics is worse tho
[19:21]  * penguin42 pats his Radeon
[19:21] <BluesKaj> must be a fancy card
[19:21] <penguin42> BluesKaj: What's your bug number again?
[19:24] <BluesKaj> penguin42, #1089439
[19:24] <penguin42> bug 1089439
[19:25] <penguin42> BluesKaj: On a 12.10 install if you try a 13.04 kernel does it work or fail - it's easy to select in grub if you can get the grub menu
[19:26] <BluesKaj> penguin42, no i tried the 3.7 kernel on this 12.10 install , no luck
[19:27] <penguin42> I'm wondering if it's worth putting a separate bug against that
[19:28] <penguin42> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures  is also worth a look at; you can link that bug to an iso test failure
[19:58] <bandit-led> re
[23:52] <lequeu_m> quit