[00:06] Azelphur: Did you figure it out? [00:06] yep, krename does really good at that [00:07] where's the fun in that? :P [00:07] haha [00:08] http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/12/shopping-lens-for-gnome-shell/ has this chated about before ? someone ditched in favourite #channels Glist so I lost the log .. [00:09] I did mention it earlier :) [00:09] col. [00:09] **cool. [00:10] have you tried it? [00:10] No, I'm stil on Meerkat ..I'm surprised it work with .es .. I can never loggon and tagg books there ... [00:16] Hello, I feel like I'm going around in circles with a problem I'm having. [00:16] what problem Shuboni? [00:17] it is a bit late [00:19] Sorry. See, I'm trying to install zenity-common. Every time I go to install it using gdebi, I get an error. "Failed to completely install all dependencies." [00:21] I'm unsure what other information is needed, I'm a bit new to Ubuntu. [00:21] !info zenity-common [00:21] zenity-common (source: zenity): Display graphical dialog boxes from shell scripts (common files). In component main, is optional. Version 3.4.0-2 (quantal), package size 216 kB, installed size 1456 kB [00:22] why are you using gdebi? it should install from the software centre [00:23] The software center tells me that it's already installed. [00:23] maybe it is :) [00:24] I need it to install steam. When I try to install Steam, gdebi states that I don't have it. [00:24] aaah, right try asking in #ubuntu-steam or telling steam about it in their web forum thing [00:25] night all o/ [00:25] Thank you very much! [00:25] noght AlanBell .. you shuld get some IOM post on Monday ... [00:26] ooh :) === GentileBen is now known as RJ45_sux === RJ45_sux is now known as OmNomDePlume === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [08:03] Hi [08:03] AlanBell: you made slashdot [08:03] is there a way to lock screen in Ubuntu 11.10 when there is no activity for 5 mins? [08:04] Screen Lock? [08:04] does it do the work? [08:14] kaushal: I installed xscreensaver, but for the pretty screensavers mainly, I think it also locks the screen. [09:38] ali1234: woot! [09:52] aloha [09:54] good morning [10:11] does anyone know about masthead amplifiers? [10:13] we have one [10:13] well, had [10:13] well, they send the power up the aerial cable right? [10:13] yes [10:14] so i've got two tv points and one of them has a funny white box connected inline with the aerial [10:15] if it isn't connected neither of the tv points works [10:15] at first i thought it was a booster but when i switched it for a different booster it didn't work at all [10:15] is the white box connected to the mains? [10:15] so it must be the powersupply for masthead amplifier [10:16] yes [10:16] sounds like it then [10:16] and it says "triax" on it and nthing else [10:16] well, boosters connect to the mains too [10:16] is there a box on the mast? [10:16] i dunno i'd have to go outside [10:16] brb [10:18] looks like it :) [10:18] ours broke a while back, probably water logged [10:19] everything works fine as long as this box is plugged in :) [10:19] the trouble is someone keeps turning it off on the other socket which breaks my TV [10:19] put it on your socket and not theirs? [10:19] that's what i'm going to do [10:20] it does work on my socket [10:20] but i'm wondering how it knows to filter out the DC [10:20] hmm if i put my meter on the aerial socket i should get DC from it... [10:22] heh... 12.35 V [10:22] well that explains that [10:24] good morning everyone [10:24] how does the TV filter it? [10:37] popey: it doesn't. it seems the amplifier has more than one connection, and can accept the DC on any connection, and filter it from the others [10:37] neat [10:37] oh of course, the dc doesnt get to the telly [10:37] i don't know how it does this but it must, based on measuring the DC at each socket while it is plugged in [10:38] i did accidentally plug it in my tv tuner to the wrong side of the power supply while testing [10:38] and the weird thing is not only did it not explode, it actually got a signal too [10:39] i've been trying to figure out why i can't get a signal at night time for like 2 years [10:40] I would expect capacitors to kill the DC on most inputs. You never know what someone is going to plug in... [10:40] hello, I've just upgraded my lenovo tablet to 12.0.4 ubuntu studio and i've been having majo problems with ghost touches whenever i have anything dark on screen, the computer gets fairly unusable. I found this web page which claims to have the solution: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/Calibration/Ntrig but the script is not working - it looks for files that don't exist: /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usbhid/*/*1B96* . I'm not sure what t [10:40] o do. [10:41] ali1234: we have one of those too - the PSU is connected to the aerial with an F connector instead of the standard aerial connector, so you'd be doing well to connect it wrong [10:41] this one is just standard coax connectors [10:42] i have a box of adapters though, so i could still connect it wrong if i wanted to [10:42] hehe [10:46] yeah, ours uses f connectors too [10:47] is it possible to run a windows executable firmware updater in wine? http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/fwdi01en.txt [10:48] i wouldn't [10:48] i installed windows in a separate partition just last night on my lenovo to install a bios update [10:48] i don't think so [10:49] lenovo make bootable cd bios updates too though [10:49] so you dont have to have windows [10:49] oh, that's handy [10:50] it's not easy to find on their website, though.... [10:54] the bios update also contains the firmware updater? [10:54] or would i put the firm ware updating programme on a pen drive and then run it while boted from the bios CD? [10:55] i found it for my laptop last night pretty easily [10:55] assumed they did it for other laptops [10:55] bios updater? use a dos bootdisk [10:56] unless you have windows 8/uefi. in that case give up [10:56] http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/research/hints-or-tips/detail.page?&LegacyDocID=MIGR-77280 [10:56] for example, filter on bios and there's a bootable thing there [11:10] ah, i found the disk image! Will the bios updater also update the firmware, or is that a separate issue? [11:14] AlanBell: You can cross that off your bucket list then ;) [11:14] hehe, well I have been slashdotted before [11:33] AlanBell: well done, the extensions looks great === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [11:58] thanks jacobw [12:04] Woo, got my first threat-o-gram from the TV licensing folks, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/December/2012-12-31%2011.52.06.jpg [12:05] (despite what the letter says, it is actually the first I've heard from them :p) [12:05] :D [12:05] past occupier probably left them hanging too [12:05] yea probably [12:05] i'm planning on not paying for one in my new place, as i neither watch nor record TV [12:06] and i see that their site has been nicely updated to tell you you're exempt even if you own one now :> [12:06] daftykins: my sentiments exactly, I have a box with XBMC on it, it does everything I want and I don't watch Live TV. [12:06] :D [12:06] Easiest way to let everybody read/write/execute on an external hard drive? [12:06] i don't even know if they have a local person to go around and do it [12:06] kvarley: 777? [12:07] ownership becomes a problem too [12:07] daftykins: apparently they are coming from canterbury, that's a fair distance (~40 mins drive) [12:07] user+group [12:07] :D [12:07] I just want anybody regardless of user/group to be able to read and write [12:08] Azelphur: do you think you'd go for the refusal of entry approach if someone did show up, or let them in and justify how it's exempt? [12:08] daftykins: I'm following what TV License resistence say to do, which is to no comment everything [12:08] Used nautilus to set nobody as owner and nogroup and read and write on all. Ty anyway :) Azelphur [12:08] If you let them in they have been known to do best efforts to falsify evidence [12:09] kvarley: welcome :) [12:09] :O cheeky swines [12:09] daftykins: they do cheeky stuff like poke their fingers in the antenna socket to become a human antenna in order to get the thing to have a signal so they can nab ya, so I've read. [12:09] i did seem some interesting youtube vids XD [12:09] and there's plenty on youtube ranging from them lying about the law is, to outright assault [12:10] O_O [12:10] must be a nasty job [12:10] indeed [12:10] my little screwdriver set from ifixit.com just showed up :D [12:11] I also plan to film them for my own safety, as I say based on the youtube videos they seem like a vicious bunch [12:11] yay little screwdriver [12:11] :D [12:11] http://www.ifixit.com/Tools/54-Bit-Driver-Kit/IF145-022-1 [12:11] very nifty. now i've got the Torx size 6 to do the SSD upgrade in a friends macbook pro :> [12:11] snazzy [12:13] hmm you're quite the easterner over there eh? :> [12:14] indeed [12:14] can only go more east if you go swimming [12:14] :P [12:16] nice 'n' breezy at this time i assume? [12:16] it's actually quiet atm, last night was really windy though [12:16] it's annoying because I have crappy windows, so you get gusts of wind coming in and the blinds all rattle about :p [12:17] =[ [12:17] new place o' mine is 17th century listed, with the funky thin windows and rope and weight operated to slide open [12:17] on the bright side, the holes in my window were big enough to poke some cat6 through, haha [12:17] though it's quite sheltered so it shouldn't be too bad [12:17] lmao [12:18] to go between floors, or? [12:19] daftykins: brother lives next door :p [12:19] nicking his internet since openreach have 2 month delays to get my line activated :< [12:19] ah-har [12:20] indeed, I applied at the beginning of December and they won't connect me till feb [12:20] useless ;x [12:20] yea xD [12:21] i'm probably going to do a 2 year contract to get the Technicolor (aka Thomson) router for the local VDSL service once i'm in my place [12:21] yea, I've done a contract with talktalk for 75mbit (they seem to be the best bang for buck) [12:21] they say they post it, but the telco HQ is about 100m away along the highstreet in town here :D my place is about 10 paces from the highstreet [12:22] Azelphur: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/06/ofcom-uk-names-talktalk-most-complained-broadband-isp.html yeuch [12:23] penguin42: that's odd, I read another article saying they were rated #4 in the country for customer satisfaction [12:24] that's probably just standard ADSL services and customers with super shoddy lines not helping that [12:24] hehe [12:25] actually sky didn't get many complaints and i think a lot of mainlanders go with them since they do cheap services? [12:25] I've had an ok experience with them so far, their sales guy was nice [12:25] need to work out how they gauged satisfaction :P [12:25] * kvarley was with talktalk and left [12:26] http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/12/sky-broadband-tops-ofcom-study-of-uk-isp-customer-satisfaction.html ah here we go [12:26] Anyone seen the new Q190 Lenovo yet .. looks like it could be a winner for Ubuntu TV ? On the Left ... http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/15/lenovo-intros-ideacentre-q190-htpc-new-c-series-all-in-ones/ ::: ALSO .. http://doiop.com/Q190-galleries [12:27] ubuntu TV? what are they doing now D: [12:27] solarcloud_3scrn: haha too late for me, I just built mine in this case http://www.fiercepc.co.uk/XCase_Q100_HTPC_Case.jpg [12:28] opening .. [12:28] quite spiffy for a 40 quid case, comes with a remote too [12:28] those ouya console looks great for an XBMC machine. $99 tegra3 games console [12:29] ignore the grammar fail [12:29] Azelphur, yeah .. looks ok .. silver-something it's called as brand name isn't it ?? [12:29] solarcloud_3scrn: it's an X-Case Q100 [12:29] I got it from here http://www.xcase.co.uk/Home-theatre-pc-case-p/casse-q100.htm [12:29] Ah yes , X-case .. Trouble shippping the plastic one's if I remember ... but your looks good. [12:30] Help - can anyone assist? I upgraded my version of ubuntu and have lost the grub menu - its still there, as when I press enter where id usually see it I can boot into Ubuntu normally - I just now get a message that says "video mode not supported" [12:30] yea, the remote they show in the photos is wrong, I got shipped this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/0te2xtvf6j8wfo5/2012-12-20%2020.09.05.jpg but it's a nicer remote IMO so I ain't complaining :D [12:30] my machine dual boots with XP which I need for work [12:30] opening... [12:31] tony_: ok, what did you upgrade from/to ? [12:31] Azelphur, Where's the 'Home' button to get that menu ? [12:31] tony_: not sure I fully understand your question, but if you've got broken grub try running boot repair, it's quite magical at fixing grub issues https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair [12:31] Does anybody know of a webui or android app that will let me browse an SFTP server via the raspberry pi? So I can transfer files to the SFTP server through the raspberrypi ? [12:32] solarcloud_3scrn: *shrug* [12:32] I think im now on 11.10, not sure what I was on previously sorry - just let it upgrade when it asked me to and it did take a while [12:32] kvarley: andFTP can connect to a SFTP server on android [12:32] Azelphur: I want it to be able to transfer files to/from a server in my house tho not my mobile devices [12:33] kvarley: right, so you want your phone to connect to the SFTP server, AndFTP is a SFTP client. [12:33] Penguin42 - I am on 11.10 [12:33] I use it all the time for grabbing files off my desktop while I'm away from home [12:33] tony_: Azelphur's suggestion might be worth a go, in particular there seems to be an option on it 'Uncomment GRUB_GFXMODE' to try and fix out-of-range type problems [12:33] Azelphur: I want my phone/web browser to connect to a server on my LAN which will allow me to access another server on the WAN. [12:34] tony_: Hmm if you've just upgraded and are on 11.10 and can still boot ubuntu then the best bet might just be to keep upgrading to 12.04 [12:34] Azelphur: I have client PCs syncing to a server in my house. I want to be able to manually upload/download docs from an external server but onto the server in my house. [12:34] I guess what I really want is for an SFTP server to be able to list files/folders on an external server [12:35] kvarley: sounds like what you want is sshfs [12:35] kvarley: sounds like a very strange setup. what are you /actually/ trying to achieve? :P [12:35] AndFTP -> Server1 has Server2 sshfs mounted. [12:35] Azelphur: That sounds about right :) [12:36] Thanks guys - trying boot repair now [12:36] righto, go fourth and multiply :p [12:36] daftykins: Ability to upload / download docs to an external server via a LAN connected server [12:36] might be a tad slow, it's generally better to connect directly to the server you want to talk to [12:36] Azelphur: My LAN is fast, my WAN is terribly slow [12:36] ah [12:37] Is there a way to have an SFTP server automatically mounted when the system boots? [12:37] I assume I could just make a bash script and add it to startup I guess [12:37] i think that's why he suggested sshfs [12:37] kvarley: yes, sshfs in fstab. [12:38] Azelphur: :D thanks [12:38] :) [13:06] Heh I see AlanBell has been /.'d [13:07] 2nd article showing on slashdot at the moment [13:08] haha nice one [13:08] DJones: yup :) [13:09] AlanBell: Be glad that's not your own server; I've watched a machine I admin'd take a /.'ing a few years ago - very scary [13:09] what isn't my server? [13:10] AlanBell: The link on /. seems to be someone elses blog pointing to it rather than directly to yours? [13:10] The link goes to http://www.muktware.com/5032/gnome-extension-shows-ubuntu-how-do-shopping-lens-right#.UOGOuVIz1w9 [13:10] and the link below it goes to my server [13:11] ah ok - god people look beyond the 1st link :-) [13:12] several people appear to have followed the second link :) [13:12] "Canonical has not yet officially responded to either EFF or FSF." [13:12] sigh [13:12] he makes stuff up as he goes along [13:14] Canonical killed a kitten once, I saw it. [13:16] http://blog.canonical.com/2012/10/12/searching-in-the-dash-in-ubuntu-12-10-an-update/ would be the official update I think, not sure that is directly in response to RMS or EFF (RMS was late to the party) [13:17] we don't need to directly respond to everyone, if we did, we'd have no time to actually kill all those kittens [13:17] that is a response, whether muktware likes it or not [13:17] oh I agree with that [13:17] indeed, gotta make time for kitten killing :p [13:17] possibly more of a presponse than a response [13:18] but I tire of that site, I spent time helping him make his articles accurate then he goes and posts a load of uncorrected FUD [13:18] what's the whining about, the new amazon stuff? [13:18] that wasn't the site I would have chosen to be associated with this tbh [13:19] muktware or slasdot ? [13:19] muktware [13:20] yeah. I understand .. He's way to obtusious... [13:20] he spelled my name wrong [13:20] he called diaspora a scizo network :D [13:21] lmao scizo network :D [13:22] 'nuff said. [13:22] http://www.muktware.com/4050/does-ubuntu-have-any-market irritated me [13:23] you can't access flash, wat? [13:24] yea, I like how the entire article is, well, false [13:25] How to be a journalist in 2013: Step 1) Make something up that is false and will annoy everyone, Step 2) Post it on the interwebs, Step 3) Advertising revenue!, Step 4) Profit [13:26] omgubuntu kind of did that, then raised standards a lot [13:28] the Wuktware guy is really a LinuxMint guy in disguise, that's all I'we come to learn about him. .. he does several key-fgure pictures/vids a couple of times a year, but really he's following his own tail. [13:31] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/564/amazon-shopping/ Is this from our AlanBell or are there two Alan Bells on the internet? [13:31] it is [13:31] heh friend just linked me [13:31] #ubuntu-uk has many Alans :P [13:31] bug 1055766 [13:31] bug 1055766 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "grep -R doesn't automatically search amazon" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055766 [13:32] Yes, but how many Alan Bells? [13:32] lol daftykins [13:32] only 1 afaik :p [13:32] http://doiop.com/wuktware = Wuktware guy [13:32] lol fix released [13:33] :D [13:33] "How are we command line jockeys supposed to support Canonical without ads in our terminals? Couldn't they be added to the screen command?" [13:34] daftykins: lol [13:34] solarcloud_3scrn, you know it's "muktware", not "wuktware"? [13:35] popey.. it was muktware .. I change the subdomain. [13:36] why do i get the idea Shuttleworth's nickname came from faceplanting the keyboard? [13:36] daftykins, I think Ubuntu should give up on traditional repos and just use the Amazon App Store for apps. [13:36] 'sabdfl' [13:36] it pre-dates him [13:36] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_for_Life [13:36] Guido used it [13:36] ah-har [13:37] Mr. Fawkes? :> [13:37] ah [13:37] Tito was also a BDFL. [13:38] Now, I'm not comparing Tito to Shuttleworth, but at least Tito didn't pledge to replace X with Wayland. It's all I'm saying. [13:38] is there any evidence of users moving in droves away to other distros? seems to be a lot of talk on tech sites as to such [13:38] daftykins: indeed, and some of the OS sites go by page views, not 'installed desktops' so it's just speculation anyway [13:38] I'm not sure how you would go about measuring how many people run one or other distro, even with access to the repo logs. [13:39] people make bold claims about numbers of users they have [13:39] i saw zorin claim they have something like 2M users [13:39] and they are smaller (?) than Mint [13:40] which implies Mint has at least 2M [13:40] Even though they're currently touting 47% of consumer devices running linux, that's just Android. As far as I know, Linux desktop usage is still around 2% of the PC market, unfortunately. [13:40] the unity hatred does seem justified, things are quite hard to find the few times i've fired up a VM [13:40] Zorin is screwedd off the blimp-ship .. It kan't keep-up with W$n8 [13:41] I was quite surprised I can't move the dock nor have a screensaver by default in Unity, although there are workarounds/hacks, of course. [13:41] daftykins, you need to use it more than just a few times in a vm to be fair [13:41] true, though i get the feeling a DE move would happen quicker than adjusting :D [13:43] has anyone got a link to a public pdf which has section-page numbering; e.g. pages numbered 1-1,1-2,1-3,... 2-1,2-2,2-3,....3-1,3-2,3-3.... I wan't to report a bug against okular for not handling them but the only one i have is a confidential one [13:43] ah well, i appreciate the inapplicable comments of mine as a non-desktop user [13:44] penguin42, could you not just make one with libreoffice and print to pdf? [13:44] popey: Yeh, what I'm not too sure of is whether there are any special things needed to do to make it work - but I guess that's probably the best bet [13:46] penguin42: is just page numbering insufficient? [13:46] as i could knock up a PDF from MS word with footer'd page numbers if not [13:46] * penguin42 will have a crack with lo [13:46] daftykins: I'll find out [13:46] righty-o [13:47] Looks like Sumvision Cyclone Voyager have a new Tablet for iPlayer out .. http://www.ebuyer.com/407318-sumvision-cyclone-voyager-tablet-pc-cycvoy101?utm_source=b2c_31-12-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_monday ::: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/BBc%20iplayer%20tablet/Sumvision%20Cyclone%20Voyager%20have%20a%20new%20Tablet%20for%20iPlayer.jpg [13:47] penguin42: do you mean a PDF where you can click the page numbers in the contents list? [13:48] dwatkins: No, evince has an option to open at a given page, and it'll take the 2-3 page label rather than a page index [13:48] dwatkins: Most of the other viewers will only take a page index [13:48] penguin42: that's interesting, as I encountered a bug in the Acrobat plug-in where using ?page= failed in certain browser/Acrobat combinations [13:50] My brother had done some research on it, as he's a developer for a company that makes a SIP client with a html/php front-end [13:50] 0o [13:55] dwatkins: I'll see if I can create this one [13:59] penguin42: let me know if I can help, i.e. create a document using Acrobat [14:03] I'm geeting this error after trying to mount exfat partition. Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 1: ERROR: invalid checksum (0x3beb != 0x38f3). [14:03] happened after I was copping files over LAN [14:04] penguin42, Got one .. for you .. with chapters ... https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/BBc%20iplayer%20tablet/jedit5.0.0manual-a4.pdf [14:04] " As far as I know, Linux desktop usage is still around 2% of the PC market, unfortunately." <-- it's been 1% for the last 10 years. [14:06] Why has it remained static for a decade? Simple: as more people began to use "easy" desktop distros like Lindows and eventually Ubuntu, the people who were using Slack/etc. began dying of old age. [14:06] XD [14:06] So the two cancelled each other out, and Linux desktop share stayed at 1%. [14:07] I wonder if that's going to change with Steam being available for Linux, though. [14:07] penguin42, Did you get that .PDF ?? [14:07] Probably not. The only people who want Linux on the desktop are people who 1) know what Linux is, and 2) have an ideological issue with proprietary software and closed source development [14:07] [14:09] solarcloud_3scrn: Yeh, the page numbers aren't actually chapter based [14:09] people who game on windows illegally will stay there [14:09] OmNomDePlume: it may be a generalisation, but I suspect there's truth to it in terms of the majority of users [14:09] people who legally purchase games via Steam and want to do so on Linux will be a niche i think [14:09] Yep...if piracy was somehow made impossible overnight, 50% of people would move to Linux overnight. [14:09] yeah, 'Joe Public' will still buy a PC/laptop with Windows preinstalled for now. [14:09] solarcloud_3scrn: Although it does have the roman stuff at the start [14:09] penguin42, , Oh Ok ... sorry . my bad , that's all I got for you, sorry [14:09] Steam is a special case - it's generally as convenient as piracy. [14:10] OmNomDePlume: Ah not so easy because if they did that then it's unlikely they would run stuff on Linux [14:10] Piracy has its pluses, but so does Steam eg. all your games in one central console, all your stats/achievements, sales, the fact that if Steam goes bankrupt they'll release patches which give you ownership of the games. [14:11] There's no other downloadable games store which will realistically do that; all others such as Origin will simply shut down and lock you out of your games. [14:12] Steam has integrated patching, too. [14:12] i don't know anyone that cares about Steam achievements :) [14:12] Dude. [14:13] xbox live achievements, sure... PS3 'trophies', maybe :D [14:13] Achievements/Trophies are LIFE. [14:13] i care not for the Steam ones [14:13] You haven't lived until you've Platinumed BO2. [14:13] BO2 ? [14:13] Black Ops II. [14:14] oh i don't buy that retarded franchise [14:14] Before Linux can challenge Windows gaming, it first needs to match OSX gaming. [14:14] OSX has Black Ops....1.... [14:18] dwatkins: Hmm, I can see how to get what I want displayed in libreoffice; I'd create a footer that had a chapter field - page number; but I'm not sure that would be the 'page number' as seen by the pdf, or as a reference [14:18] Despite people hating CoD I hope it gets ported, it's a fun game and lets face it all game devs would consider porting their own games if such a big title made the move [14:19] penguin42: I see what you mean, yeah - you also have the issue that page numbers are often out of sequence due to the contents and other beginning pages not being counted in the main page numbers [14:21] dwatkins: The one I have to deal with at work was written with Framemaker [15:03] Anyone tell me if the Kindlefire hd mounts as a block device in Linux ? [15:34] kvarley: the fact that only older games are ported to Linux and OSX speaks volumes. [15:35] Anybody who really wanted to play BO would've played it on Windows/360/PS3/Wii/iOS/Android by now. [15:36] Eg. all the fuss about Steam...but 99% of the Windows games ported will be Source games, and Valve only release a new game every 2 or so years. [15:36] OmNomDePlume: and lots of indie games.. humble bundle stuff [15:36] OmNomDePlume: and now the Unity3D engine has a [15:36] So yeah, I'm thrilled I'll be able to play Half-Life 2...again...almost 10 years after its PC launch. [15:37] OmNomDePlume: "Linux" support mode, it'll only get more popular [15:37] MartijnVdS, I'd like to see play stats on indie games. [15:37] OmNomDePlume: so would valve (guess why they're in steam) :) [15:40] Steam and the HL2 engine are very much still new to Linux, I suspect many more games will follow which are actually recent. [16:03] can only be good for forcing debug of graphics drivers [16:07] o/ [16:08] Probably not. The only people who want Linux on the desktop are people who 1) know what Linux is, and 2) have an ideological issue with proprietary software and closed source development [16:08] I don't believe that for a minute [16:10] given around 80K people we legitimately "in" the closed steam beta running closed source apps via a closed source store on their open source desktop running closed source video and wifi drivers.. [16:10] ideology is bogus [16:10] indeed [16:10] i use open source software because when it breaks (which it does all the time) i can actually fix it [16:11] i use it because i like it [16:11] this is not ideology, this is pragmatism [16:11] exactly [16:11] i realised something the other day [16:12] these people who complain about android not being "real" linux [16:12] these are the kind of people who like ideologies [16:12] if you compare android to maemo you'll notice that every single part of it is exactly as open [16:13] maybe some of it isn't as good [16:13] but... it's open source. fix it. [16:14] i couldn't understand why people would even use open source if they're not willing to do that [16:14] but then i realised [16:14] it's because they just want to support a team [16:15] and android is clearly much too mainstream [16:17] as such, the above quote is quite possibly true of a majority of ubuntu users [16:17] ali1234: The difficulty with both is that they're under pressure to make big releases and thus have to hide features/development until release, and to some extent that's getting to be a problem with Ubuntu as well [16:18] nah, that's not the problem at all [16:18] AOSP doesn't ever get half the actually good stuff in android [16:19] it certainly has everything that maemo every released as open source though [16:19] more, in fact, since it has an email client and dialer [16:20] aosp doesn't have a dialer?! [16:21] aosp has a dialer [16:21] maemo didn't [16:21] ok [16:21] or rather, it was never released as open source [16:21] same for email client afaik [16:21] and they both rely heavily on closed source drivers, maemo probably more so [16:22] basically aosp has always been far more open than maemo in terms of source availability [16:22] ali1234: But in terms of knowing what development is going to happen and what's going to land in the next release? [16:22] well nokia constantly talked the talk, and then totally failed to live up to it [16:23] google just throws the code over the wall when they are good and ready [16:23] the only difference being google never promised that they would do anything else [16:23]