[11:45] <micahg> knome: what do you think of dropping abiword-plugin-mathview from the seeds?  it's 1MB
[11:45] <micahg> well, with the library it pulls in
[11:51] <knome> i don't know what that is... :)
[11:51] <knome> but sounds like something that is ok to drop imo
[11:52] <knome> huhu, we're that much oversized again :)
[12:03] <micahg> we're 9MB oversized
[12:04] <knome> yup
[12:06] <micahg> I'm going to drop french again from i386, that should get it fitting on a CD again
[12:06] <knome> mmh
[12:08] <micahg> well, if I can squeeze more stuff off the image, we can add it back :)
[12:08] <micahg> at least we'll have one image CD size
[12:08] <knome> heh, yeah
[12:08] <knome> we should get some stuff in soon and get them tested
[12:08] <knome> like the new menulibre, catfish and display dialog
[12:08] <micahg> mr_pouit has uploaded a few things recently
[12:09] <knome> mmhmm, i haven't followed things too close lately
[12:11] <micahg> hrm, removing the plugin won't help much as it's recommended by abiword
[12:11] <knome> heh
[12:11] <knome> i'd really want that stuff worked without recommends.
[12:12] <knome> so we could use --no-install-recommends by default
[12:12] <knome> that's obviously a design flaw
[12:12] <knome> "recommends" should never be needed for something to work
[12:12] <micahg> Recommends
[12:12] <micahg>     This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.
[12:12] <micahg>     The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.
[12:13] <knome> aha. that's a bit weird
[12:13] <micahg> if mathview doesn't fit the bill, we can request it be dropped to suggests
[12:14] <knome> still, with recommends installed by default, and probably more and more getting there from the other side as well (less relevant stuff constantly included), it's a serious flaw in the system
[12:14] <knome> because i believe it's so much easier to get a thing into "recommends" than as a strict dependency
[12:15] <micahg> well, no, if the recommends are being pulled in, they should be stuff that would normally be installed with the software in question, otherwise, the field is being used wrong
[12:15] <knome> even if in ubuntu, that ultimately means the same thing unless you manually turn off installing recommends
[12:15] <micahg> if you find spurious recommends, please let me know
[12:16] <knome> i will
[12:16] <knome> i've turned off installing recommends myself though
[12:16] <micahg> I need to review the package list again to make sure we're not pulling in anything weird
[12:16] <micahg> umm...that's not recommended :P
[12:17] <knome> "dont' worry, i'm a developer"
[12:17] <knome> i know it's not recommended
[12:17] <knome> and i'm not whining about bugs before checking if it works with recommends enabled
[12:20] <knome> seriously, if everybody just used to install recommends, they should just be in the dependencies then.
[12:20] <micahg> no
[12:20] <knome> i thought they were separated to allow choice
[12:20] <knome> ...ultimately
[12:20] <micahg> Depends
[12:20] <micahg>  The Depends field should be used if the depended-on package is required for the depending package to provide a significant amount of functionality.
[12:21] <knome> yeah, i understand the theoretical difference...
[12:21] <micahg> yes, recommends can be removed on demand, depends can't
[12:21] <micahg> but since disk space is so cheap, recommends by default makes sense
[12:21] <knome> for most systems yes
[12:22] <knome> you are probably talking about non-SSD disk space :P
[12:22] <knome> i'm not saying it doesn't make sense with SSD's either
[12:22] <micahg> even on a 16GB SSD, a normal Ubuntu system would work
[12:22] <knome> but it makes in my 4GB eeepc
[12:23] <knome> there used to be some gnome apps in recommends for some packages
[12:23] <knome> that was weird
[12:24] <knome> i can't remember for which packages, but something probably ages ago pulled in another application
[12:24] <micahg> yeah, well, I think we took care of those
[12:25] <knome> i hope so :)
[12:27] <knome> reading back on my blog, it must've been late 2008
[12:28] <knome> too bad i didn't write down what happened, only the solution to disable recommends by default :P
[13:25] <kurapika> Hello happy new year / Bonjour Bonne année
[13:27] <bluesabre> Happy new year!
[13:29] <kurapika> My best wish for all of you :) and long live for xfce