[08:54] <chrisccoulson> good morning, and happy new year desktoppers!
[08:57] <larsu> good morning chrisccoulson, happy new year to you, too!
[09:34] <Sweetsha1k> g'morning 'n happy new year to everyone!
[13:16] <davmor2> hey guys is it me or is appearance missing from setting today from upgrades
[13:38] <popey> davmor2: i still see it
[13:46] <davmor2> popey: thanks I reinstall webapps might work then too :)
[15:47] <Sweetsha1k> seb128, didrocks, robert_ancell: may I humbly ask for you to add an endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication please?
[15:48] <bcurtiswx> gl Sweetsha1k  :)
[15:52] <Sweetsha1k> bcurtiswx: thanks, pinging people still in absence on holiday vacation, I can use some luck ;)
[15:53] <qengho> Sweetsha1k: I'd only endorse Sweetsha384k at least.
[15:54] <Sweetsh384k> qengho: thats so nice of you *blink*
[15:55] <qengho> It's too early for me. That's was too obscure-nerdy and not very funny to start with.  Sry.
[15:55] <Sweetshark> dont mess with thge Sweetsha*s: they are one big bunch of hillbilly brothers and team up quickly.
[15:56] <Sweetshark> qengho: np ;)
[16:04] <qengho> Ahem.  Tracker processes eat a good bit of CPU on my laptop when I boot.  They eventually go idle, but for manmy minutes, my machine crawls.  Does anyone know why they're not {io,}nice'd?
[16:21] <dobey> qengho: tracker isn't installed by default. i guess that's a question for upstream
[19:09] <robru> happy new years everybody! welcome back!
[19:09] <attente> happy new year robru!
[19:09] <robru> attente, hey! how's it?
[19:10] <attente> eh, pretty good
[19:10] <attente> glad that 2012 is over :)
[19:10] <robru> haha, nice
[19:10] <attente> how's life in victoria?
[19:11] <robru> attente, mixed bag. it's totally gorgeous here and everything is amazing, but the hostel I live in is pretty awful. tiny, cramped, noisy, shitty wifi
[19:11] <robru> hoping to find an apartment for feb 1st
[19:12] <attente> what about vancouver? or are you dead set on victoria?
[19:12] <robru> dead set! vancouver is too hustly-bustly for me. nice to visit, but wouldn't want to live there though
[19:12] <attente> haha, ok
[19:13] <attente> well good luck with the search :)
[19:14] <robru> attente, so the wifi at my hostel blocks everything. even IMAP and IRC. I tried to use Tor to get around it, and that worked for IMAP, but freenode blocks Tor! Seems there's no way for me to get on IRC from the hostel unless I tether off my phone instead of using wifi.
[19:14] <attente> ouch that sucks..
[19:17] <sarnold> linode/aws irc bouncer?
[19:18] <robru> sarnold, I guess. Network haxxing isn't quite my specialty... I just go across the street to the cafe and use their wifi, which is 10x faster anyway ;-)
[19:20] <sarnold> robru: not that hard, znc or sbnc are packaged.. :)
[19:21] <robru> sarnold, haha, ok I'll have to give it a try tomorrow. I'm already at the cafe now ;-)
[19:22] <sarnold> robru: nothing wrong with sitting at a nice cafe :) but you do lose scrollback...
[19:22] <qengho> Might be easier just to log-in to their default-passworded AP and configure it how you want, ha.
[19:22] <sarnold> qengho :D
[19:24] <robru> qengho, ha! I met a local guy here who's pretty seriously into network security and he was showing me how to access the security camera feeds, which are apparently unencrypted over the wifi.
[19:26] <desrt> hello fellow canadians and friends of other nationalities
[19:26] <robru> desrt, happy new year!
[19:27] <desrt> cheers :)
[19:41] <robru> is pitti already gone for the day?
[19:42] <desrt> almost definitely
[19:42] <desrt> he keeps very early hours
[19:42] <desrt> speaking of hours...
[19:42]  * desrt pops out for a rather late lunch
[19:44] <robru> desrt, I suffer from insomnia and typically wake up at 11AM, now that I'm 2hrs further west than before, it makes it even harder for me to ever get in touch with pitti :-/
[19:44] <sarnold> robru: heh, I'm in your new timezone, he's often starting work as I'm leaving.
[19:44] <sarnold> robru: it might be easier now :)
[19:45] <robru> sarnold, yeah, I often see him start working if I stay up late. I guess that's just how I'll have to do it.
[20:09] <highvoltage> jbicha: howdy!
[20:09] <highvoltage> jbicha: is it likely that 13.04 will still contain gnome-fallback?
[20:41] <robru> does anybody know about writing test suites against introspected libraries? I just wrote an enormous (1000+ lines) test suite against gexiv2, but python is pulling in the system gexiv2 binaries and I need to get it testing against the binaries compiled in the source tree, rather than what's installed in the system. pitti was showing me how pygobject does this but I can't seem to get it to work.
[21:24] <jbicha> highvoltage: 13.04 absolutely will still offer gnome-fallback as we're basically sticking with GNOME 3.6
[21:27] <jbicha> as of GNOME 3.7.3, the Fallback session still mostly works although things like metacity and gnome-panel no longer have a maintainer & some supporting code in gnome-control-center/gnome-settings-daemon has been killed
[21:37] <highvoltage> jbicha: ok great
[21:38] <highvoltage> jbicha: I'm wondering what we should use as alternatives for when that's gone in Edubuntu.
[21:38] <highvoltage> xfce seems like the friendliest alternative at this point
[21:41] <jbicha> highvoltage: well if anything, there's lots of choices now
[21:42] <jbicha> GNOME 3.8 is adding a "GNOME Classic" mode to GNOME Shell so that's one more variation
[21:49] <sarnold> a lot of my friends are all abuzz about some newfangled "mate desktop", I haven't looked into it much yet..
[21:51] <dobey> sarnold: it's a weird fork of gnome, from mint
[21:52] <sarnold> dobey: aha, no wonder they like it :) all the gnome they've figured out how to live with without any of the newfangled churn?
[21:52] <robru> sarnold, exactly. obsolete from the start.
[21:52] <dobey> sarnold: same churn, different butter at the end.
[21:52] <sarnold> robru: I dunno, there's a lot of people who dislike lennartcode..
[21:52] <sarnold> dobey: haha :)
[21:54] <robru> sarnold, yeah, but GNOME 2 is a *huge* project and mint simply does not have the manpower to maintain this. it will implode shortly. contributing to MATE is an enormous duplication of wasted effort. A better idea would be to fix whatever minor issues you might have with GNOME3
[21:55] <dobey> robru: unfortunately my issues with GNOME3 aren't minor
[21:55] <dobey> of course, i am certainly not going to use mint
[21:55] <dobey> or mate
[21:55] <jbicha> MATE is GNOME2 renamed, with a few patches backported from GNOME3, and apparently the devs are interested in eventually having it support GTK3
[21:57] <jbicha> Cinnamon on the other hand is a more focused project and is already in Debian & Ubuntu
[21:57] <robru> dobey, well, what are your issues with gnome3? if it's anything to do with UI, then it would be easier to write the UI you want in js on top of the existing gnome shell, rather than fork all of gnome2. forking gnome2 because you dislike some gnome3 API is like building an entire car factory because you don't like the cupholders in the last car you bought.
[21:58] <robru> 'dislike some gnome3 UI' I mean
[22:03] <sarnold> cinnamon is _also_ a linux mint project?
[22:05] <dobey> was, i think
[22:05] <dobey> robru: some UI, some social, some technical. and one doesn't need to build a car factory to build a car :)
[22:06] <jbicha> http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
[22:06] <robru> dobey, certainly you don't need to build a car factory to build a car, but that's what I'm saying. forking all of gnome2 is an enormous undertaking that's just vastly more work than is necessary to solve the problems it claims to address. hence 'building a car factory'
[22:08] <dobey> robru: also, my issues with UI aren't fixable with simple JS extensions. they are fundamental issues in GNOME
[22:09] <dobey> and forking gnome2 is dumb not because it's an enormous amount of work (it really isn't all that much); but rather because it's gnome2, which is not technically superior or anything really. it's more like buying a Yugo factory, because you didn't like the cupholders in your Fiat
[22:30] <Optichip> anyone around that works on the daily release isos?
[22:31]  * Optichip is hearing there might be a bug with nvidia in the daily release 12.04
[22:31] <Optichip> popey: you around mate?
[22:32] <popey> Optichip: hello
[22:32] <Optichip> hi alan, was wondering if you could point me in the direction of someone in charge of daily releases of 12.04
[22:33] <popey> what's the problem?
[22:33] <Optichip> someone's reporting a bug in Ubiquity with Nvidia drivers not working correctly after Install, works fine during, but not after install.
[22:34] <Optichip> GPU not working after reboot once the install finishes.
[22:36] <Optichip> popey: this is all third person so I can't guarantee validity.
[22:38] <popey> Optichip: got a bug number?
[22:39] <jasoncwarner> hey everyone...how are things going?
[22:41] <Optichip> popey: bug numbers are: 1078977, 1079812
[22:41] <popey> bug 1078977,
[22:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1078977 in elementary OS "Nvidia Drivers Cause LightDM to Crash" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078977
[22:41] <popey> bug 1079812
[22:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079812 in elementary OS "Freeze on startup unless recovery mode used (nvidia)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079812
[22:41] <popey> thats not ubuntu
[22:42] <Optichip> asking him if he's got ubuntu ones
[22:46] <Optichip> popey: thanks for checking, I think he's one of the Elementary group that lacks the Nvidia equipment to test the bug himself.  Maybe I'll test it for him in the morning
[22:46] <popey> ok
[22:47] <Optichip> popey: appreciate the response as always and miss ya in #LDC channel :)
[22:59] <robru> ugh, what's the name of the metapackage that installs all the fun dev tools?
[23:00] <sarnold> robru: build-essential?
[23:00] <robru> sarnold, ah, thanks
[23:00] <robru> sarnold, fresh VM on the go here ;-)
[23:00] <sarnold> robru: hehe, that first hour before you get everything installed sure feels funny, doesn't it? :)
[23:01] <robru> sarnold, I knooooooow!
[23:03] <TheMuso> build-essential, devscripts, and ubuntu-dev-tools for starters...
[23:09] <Laney> apt-get install packaging-dev is useful for getting all that stuff
[23:10] <robru> TheMuso, Laney thanks guys
[23:11] <TheMuso> Laney: ooo nice one, thanks for the tip.
[23:14]  * RAOF learns something new every day.
[23:24] <TheMuso> Indeed.