tioxSo what's with touching Ubuntu as of late?06:48
chuI guess we'll know in <24 hours.06:56
tioxI call smartphone OS.07:08
jussiI call rubbish :P09:18
jussiyou have no idea whats going to hit you :P09:18
jussi(nor do I for that matter)09:18
elkyjussi, if it's rubbish, turning the fan off might be wise :P11:45
dwatkinsI'm expecting a games console.12:01
chuThat'd be quite cool.12:02
dwatkinsconsidering the amount of effort Valve are putting in to getting Steam and some games ported, it wouldn't surprise me.12:04
com12any idea of what the annoucement will be12:24
CatbuntuHi bkerensa :)12:39
CatbuntuOh wrong nick, sorry12:41
chuI imagine he'll begin soon.12:41
chuBut, I have been awake an ungodly amount of time and my body is starting to give up on me.12:41
CatbuntuOh, poor chu12:41
chuI did it to myself, so no sympathy. See how long you can stay awake into the new year. It's not easy!12:42
dwatkinsI made the mistake of staying awake all night the night before new year12:57
chuYou do it the night of new year!12:58
CatbuntuThat's why I use Mint, if anybody is interested: http://www.catbuntu.me/2013/01/my-2013-purpose-and-why-do-i-use-linux.html13:28
k1lhmm. i see some problems in your point of view (which is ok, since its your opinion after all): listen-to-community; canoncical didnt remove gnome2, gnome dropped gnome2; why talking about a new user when you are not a new user?13:39
=== Catbuntu is now known as Neshemah
topyliNeshemah: btw you don't have to change distributions just to change your desktop environment :-)14:57
Neshemahtopyli, I know, but e.g. Cinnamon on Ubuntu looks weird.16:05
=== bzoltan1 is now known as bzoltan
JoseeAntonioRThe hangout for discussion about the product with Benjamin Kerensa, Bilal Akhtar and me has just started :)17:45
vibhavAw yeah17:47
popeyJoseeAntonioR: the omg post needs updating with the url?17:47
mhall119bkerensa-ofc: is the OMG page going to be updated with the embedded hangout?17:48
JoseeAntonioRmhall119: little problem, but working on it17:49
JoseeAntonioRpopey: it's being worked on17:49
superdug_so whats the announcement?17:50
popeysuperdug_: coming soon17:50
JoseeAntonioROMG! Ubuntu! is now updated :)17:50
highvoltageI guess you'd need to have Unity Touch before you could have any of those17:51
AbsintheSyringehighvoltage, share the same thought :)17:52
bkerensa-ofcmhall119: its up now17:52
bkerensa-ofcmhall119: caching17:53
mhall119bkerensa-ofc: watching :)17:53
bkerensa-ofcmhall119: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-product-launch-omg-google-hangout17:53
mhall119yeah, no more utouch17:53
popeywhat other suggestions did omg come up with? you've said phone, what else?17:53
mhall119bobble heads17:53
superdug_"almost touch it" ... better be a damned tablet17:53
bigcalmBest thing about this count down timer? 00:00:00 is when I can turn my machine off ;)17:53
popeyUbuntu fridges!17:53
vibhavThese are going to be the longest 7 minutes of my life17:54
highvoltageUbuntu would also be more useful on tablets than on phones17:54
davidcalleTouch enabled glasses.17:54
highvoltage(even more useful than android in many cases)17:54
mhall119oh,nice davidcalle17:54
vibhavSomething awesome!17:54
cielakubuntu for eyewear? sounds familiar17:54
ubuntubhoyPhones requires vendor inclusion17:54
davidcallecielak, hehe17:54
mhall119poke your eye to open the dash17:54
davmor2Oh just tell them already, it's an ubuntu wig17:54
bigcalmdavmor2: a merkin?17:54
davidcalleTo open a file, double blink17:54
bigcalmdavmor2: it'd fit...17:55
cielakmhall119: open the dash, and *it* pokes your eye? :)17:55
highvoltagemaybe it's an Ubuntu Holodeck. I'd sell everything I have for one.17:55
superdug_is there some kind of announcement event? or we just waiting for the site to change from a counter to the ubuntu powered microwave page?17:55
mhall119loving JoseeAntonioR's wall in the background :)17:55
superdug_or is this said event?17:55
bigcalmI do hope that it goes 'ping'17:55
mhall119superdug_: waiting for the announcement and watching OMG's live coverage: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-product-launch-omg-google-hangout17:56
bashrc`I think it's going to be an Ubuntu cigarette lighter17:56
cjwatsonI'd love an Ubuntu jelly-bean dispenser, personally17:56
popeyIs one of you guys playing minecraft? I swear I can hear the sound effect of a door opening and closing!17:56
bashrc`Ubuntu coffee machine?17:56
CantideDidn't Android already dispense jelly bean?17:56
superdug_is omgubuntu somewhere where an announcement is being made?17:56
highvoltagecjwatson: when's your birthday?17:56
bigcalmAn Ubuntu fedora?17:56
vibhavcjwatson : :)17:57
Neshemah3 minutes17:57
AlanBellsuperdug_: no, the announcement will be on ubuntu.com17:57
popey\o/ marmite17:57
Neshemah2:35 minutes and the world will explode17:57
cjwatsonhighvoltage: November ...17:57
highvoltagepopey: people in Canada don't know what Marmite is :(17:57
bilalpopey: Was my brother in another room, didn't know my mic was that strong17:57
bashrc`Ubuntu blender!17:57
mhall119if it's Ubuntu Marmite, I'm switching to Arch17:57
NeshemahGnome2buntu, Gnom2buntu17:57
superflyhighvoltage: that's a pity17:57
popeyhaha bilal ☺17:57
NeshemahI want Gnome2buntu17:57
Cantidelife without Marmite would be unbearable..17:57
highvoltageheya superfly17:57
RobinJwhat's a marmite?17:58
superdug_t-minus 2 minutes and counting17:58
superflyyo highvoltage :-)17:58
davidcalleThe Verge has a pic :)17:58
superflyRobinJ: a beef flavoured spread17:58
Neshemahoh oh17:58
CantideRobinJ, a sandwich spread17:58
NeshemahIt's coming17:58
superfly(in essence)17:58
bashrc`Maybe it's an Ubuntu range of lingerie17:58
beethoven8201dum dum dum17:58
RobinJsounds typically american *shivers*17:58
Neshemahc'mon c'mon17:58
spjtmarmite is the sludge left over after they make beer17:58
* Neshemah is proud to be on Mint17:58
superflyRobinJ: actually, no17:58
Cantidebashrc`, I'd totally buy that for my girlfriend :)17:58
mfischRobinJ: it's most certainly NOT american17:58
superdug_marmite - (noun) synonymous with disgusting17:58
Cantidespjt, I always thought it was tick blood..17:58
Neshemahhahahahah irv17:58
snwhI still think it's Ubuntu Pepsi17:59
superdug_1 MINUTE17:59
jqmmes_will there be a press conference?17:59
superflyCantide: BWAHAHAHAHA17:59
RobinJirv, fleshlight or flashlight? :p17:59
beethoven8201it better be nexus717:59
irvflesh ;]17:59
NeshemahIt's an Ubuntu fridge with a touchscreen, believe me17:59
bigcalmCan I go home yet?17:59
beethoven8201or touch17:59
irvwhere is the video17:59
jqmmes_it'll be a ubuntu toaster17:59
Neshemah40 secs17:59
jqmmes_with touch support17:59
NeshemahThe ubuntu toaster already exists17:59
RobinJirv, http://www.ubuntu.com/17:59
Thundarryay toaster!17:59
NeshemahIt prints the logo to the toast17:59
mfischguys it's really Ubuntu for Itanium17:59
Neshemahc'mon c'mon17:59
Neshemahoh oh oh oh17:59
DavidBradburyI'm crossing my fingers that if it is a smartphone, that the interface isn't ran under unity17:59
Neshemahoh hell its orgasmic17:59
superflyless than 10 seconds, apparently17:59
beethoven8201wat loading18:00
superdug_and ... ?18:00
RobinJmy god lol18:00
jqmmes_a loading screen18:00
mfischwe're replacing the command line with Unity18:00
DavidBradburyWhite screeeeeen18:00
spjtIt's? a spinning circle!18:00
irvITS A CIRCLE18:00
NeshemahEPIC FAIL18:00
highvoltageso close I can almost smell it18:00
RollinV2so close you can crash it18:00
RobinJrefresh the page, you just get 00:00:0018:00
superdug_it's the most beautiful circle ever18:00
RobinJcanonical failed lol18:00
irvandddd webservers are dead18:00
Neshemahlol, lol, lol18:00
DavidBradburyAnd... Nothing. They just wanted to put a timer up on their page18:00
RobinJwebsite down XD18:00
RollinV2epic fail18:00
NeshemahIT'S A SQUARE18:01
isantopIt's a toaster.18:01
irvor do these guys even know18:01
highvoltagejono: surely you know what it is already :)18:01
NeshemahOh no, I selected it hahaha18:01
RobinJcheck omgubuntu18:01
isantopIt's toasted the website already18:01
bigcalmIt's a server that can't handle the load18:01
highvoltageit's up for me but just at 00:00:0018:01
RobinJomg noes18:01
RobinJomgubuntu: 504 Gateway Time-out18:01
neventhey run server on IIS? :)18:01
inetpro504 Gateway Time-out18:01
Cantideneven, :D18:01
Thundarrlean on any ubuntu site just a little, and they collapse?18:01
RobinJwell it says ubuntu phone unveiled18:01
irvthey should host their site on IIS18:01
irvthen they wouldn't have these issues18:01
Neshemahlol there's a live show on Youtube18:01
isantopOMG!'s got it. It's a phone18:02
spjtWe already knew about the OS, I just want to know if there's any hardware for it.18:02
DavidBradburyI can't ping 'em18:02
jqmmes_holy crap18:02
beethoven8201how'd you get it to load?18:02
mfischomgubuntu is dead too18:02
Thundarrso now they can spend forever working on shit for a phone instead of optimizing the proper OS. really nice.18:02
spjtwhere's the thing on youtube?18:02
NeshemahI'd like to see what does the Canonical guy say18:02
Thundarrisnt that what MS is doing? working ass backwards?18:03
highvoltagehey tell rickspencer3 to join the channel :)18:03
pleia2just a reminder folks, this channel is like other Ubuntu channels language-wise, please watch it :)18:03
tioxIt's a competition to the bottom of the multi-device pile, and Canonical is late!18:03
yungbloodbass akwards18:03
superdug_how do they have it already?18:03
RobinJepic fail, canonical :p18:03
NeshemahWho's that indian kid?18:03
retardis the surprise that the site is down18:03
popeyNeshemah: bilal18:04
NeshemahNo retard, that was expected18:04
tioxm still stuck at the timer!18:04
NeshemahWho's him popey?18:04
NeshemahHe manages the server?18:04
OptiWorkpage working yet?18:04
isantopIt's on The Verge too.18:04
superdug_so ubuntu leaked it?18:05
cdavissomeone really borked that timer up, they must have written an rm -rf / when the timer reached zero18:05
NeshemahWho's that Canonical guy with glasses and bald?18:05
popeyNeshemah: jono18:05
retardoh a phone18:05
AlanBellsuperdug_: well that will be a press release with an embargo time18:05
virtuubuntu for smartphones18:05
spjtcdavis: Everyone who had the timer open tried to load it at once.18:05
virtuengadget goes hands on18:05
Thundarrdoes ubuntu for nexus 7 actually work18:05
tioxI woke up before 21:00 to see this crap. Bad advertising juju Canonical.18:05
NeshemahWho's jono?18:05
AlanBellNeshemah: community manager18:06
highvoltagejono: know any specs on the phone yet?18:06
ikoniaNeshemah: the fact that you just randomly asked that suggested you may already know18:06
Thundarrlol, I'm banned from the verge.18:06
tioxActually, before 13:00 sorry.18:06
RobinJjono, http://socloseyoucanalmostbobbleit.com/18:06
tioxI get time confused sometimes.18:06
superdug_so why does ubuntu think their foray into the phone world will be better than mer, webos, mozilla, etc ?18:06
tioxThere we go, Ubuntuphone. I said it before. When I was fanatical, I said it WOULD happen.18:07
Neshemahikonia, I read an interview on LinuxFormat magazine.18:07
ikoniaI'm sure it says who he is18:07
NeshemahWell, I just read the title :P18:07
trimetaSo, wait, does this entirely replace the existing phone OS (meaning that none of your Android apps will work), or does it just let you connect to a KVM and run a full Ubuntu desktop?18:07
tioxWe all knew this was going to happen.18:07
cielakQUESTION: How about apps compatibility? Does this new OS will mean we'll need to wait till developers do some apps on it, or will it be compatible with e.g. android apps or ubuntu ones?18:07
RollinV2same reason they think unity is the best thing ever, distortion field18:07
snwhomgubuntu is up18:07
spjtI got ubuntu.com to load, it just shows the same screen with no timer :)18:07
RollinV2i bet webup8 wont even report on this lol18:07
RobinJsomeone made a fanpage for jono lol18:07
tioxUnity is pretty damn good for what it is. Hence I don't use it.18:07
RollinV2tiox, lol18:08
highvoltagemhall119: was this a (or the) skunkworks project?18:08
cjwatsonfront page linking to http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone now18:08
RobinJwell, the dev portal says something about ubuntu phone18:08
tioxOMG I will wit until the influx of idiots and dumb media grab their press media, the page is too slow for me.18:09
popeyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4  trailer video...18:09
mhall119highvoltage: there was some, but unfortunately we didn't kick of Skunkworks in time for there to be a lot of involvement18:09
czajkowskicjwatson: cheers18:10
DavidBradburyThere will be an SDK, apps will be able to be programmed both using HTML5 and QDK18:10
DavidBradburySorry, QML18:10
RollinV2same as windows 8 rt apps , html5 base18:10
FabianSYay, moar slow webapp shit!18:10
ubot5Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.18:11
ikoniatone down the langauge please18:11
RobinJHTML5? ok i'm in. i'm afraid it'd be too good to be true, but it sounds like a way to get away from the mess that is programming for android or iOS18:11
kikirikouwhen is the next live hangout ?18:12
DavidBradburyI just hope that there will be a proper web render. Speed, feature set, rendering, and the JS engine are all important to get right.18:12
spjthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cpWHJDLsqTU the announcement18:12
AlanBellhi FabianS18:12
tioxSo basically, if I hack my Android phone a little bit to give it the Ubuntu font and some fancy Ubuntu-ish graphics I can say I am using Ubuntu Mobile?18:12
RobinJQUESTION: how's accessibility? can we run it on our existing android devices, or do we need to purchase a device with it preinstalled?18:13
tioxI sure hope it gets better than that -- MATE did start off as a direct rip of GNOME 2.x after all...18:13
DavidBradburyDon't be silly tiox.18:13
AlanBellhttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical is working now18:13
superflySorry, that's not that exciting18:14
NeshemahMATE FTW18:14
NeshemahAnd Cinnamon, too :D18:14
bkerensa-ofcAny questions or Rick Spencer or Jono Bacon?18:14
tioxI'd like to go back to bed, but it's too late for that.18:14
Thundarr...no shipping date etc, why didn't they just wait for CES18:14
Thundarrwhat a stupid announcement18:14
Calinouwhat a stupid Thundarr18:14
sc30317i'm assuming this is where we are supposed to discuss the ubuntu.com DoS :D18:15
NeshemahYes, why did they remove gnome 2 and why don't they react to Mint's win18:15
tioxWhat stupid hype! Canonical failed to excite me. Rubs my jollies the wrong way.18:15
ubuntubhoyDoes anyone know if test 'ROM's' will be made available for current devices, and if so when ?18:15
highvoltagewell I guess they just want to build some excitement around it. it's admittingly a bit boring considering that the intentions for an ubuntu phone and the official youtube video has been available for a while.18:15
CalinouNeshemah: suddenly: xfce18:15
ThundarrCalinou: you might disagree, but this is not how you market product. "we might ship this year, even though we don't have a vendor"18:15
Calinouwhy doesn't this calm down all hate? :D18:15
highvoltageso it did end up being somewhat of an unannouncement.18:15
NeshemahIt's not hate Calinou.18:15
CalinouThundarr: since when ubuntu is being marketed by vendors18:15
FabianSCalinou: People hate change in itself.18:16
NeshemahI like XFCE too.18:16
CalinouFabianS: of course they always did :) i don't personally18:16
NeshemahI try to be constructive...18:16
KurtKrautThat is what happens if you use Apache+Squid for high visit volume website instead of nginx+Varnish. So Canonical, next time try nginx.18:16
Thundarrit has to be marketed by whichever vendor they partner with.18:16
NeshemahWithout Ubuntu Mint wouldn't exist, at all.18:16
FabianSI don't either. Gnome3 is much much better than Gnome 2 ever was.18:16
Calinouif I don't like unity (lacks productivity/customability), then I move on and use xfce, which is _better_ than gnome 2 imo18:16
NeshemahBut Canonical reacts bad, soooooooo bad.18:16
Calinouless obsolete18:16
FabianSGnome 2 was an unholy mess of bad design and technology.18:16
NeshemahYes Calinou, that's right.18:16
NeshemahI preffer Cinnamon, too.18:16
CalinouKurtKraut: set it up for them then, mr. harshlinux :>18:16
NeshemahBut the newbies don't know about Xubuntu nor xubuntu-desktop.18:16
RollinV210.10 best18:16
NeshemahThey think Ubuntu is *only* Unity.18:17
NeshemahRollinV2 +118:17
FabianSGnome 3 is at least consistantly styled and has introduced some new approach.18:17
CalinouNeshemah: newbies get what newbies deserve, non-newbies do not18:17
NeshemahSo they say "what the heck is that" and go to Mint.18:17
RollinV2funny thing is 10.10 wasnt even a LTS18:17
RollinV2and everyone still loved it18:17
RobinJQUESTION: Are we going to have to purchase a €600 phone with it preinstalled, or can we just pick up a second hand Android phone for €50 somewhere and flash it to Ubuntu Phone?18:17
Calinouthe derivatives need more promotion, +118:17
FabianSBut people seem to not understand UIs that don't work like Windows 1.018:17
sikorythey should have gone with scaleengine.com18:17
CalinouBETTER QUESTION: are you even going to buy a smartphone/tablet?18:17
KurtKrautCalinou, sure! And they don't need to provide me root access. It is just a matter of  'aptitude install nginx varnish -y' :P18:17
NeshemahCalinou, look at this: http://www.catbuntu.me/2013/01/my-2013-purpose-and-why-do-i-use-linux.html18:17
ThundarrI can't use mint. I might have some jewish blood, and clem wants me to burn in an oven.18:17
* Calinou answers: "no, desktops are faster and have better performance-to-price ratio!"18:18
tioxOkay, here's the rational for someone looking between GNOME 2.x and GNOME-Shell/Unity/Cinnamon: "It looks like Windows..."18:18
sikorythey are so ridiculously expensive18:18
NeshemahI tried to explain this not being a hater.18:18
jqmmes_uhm... will they lack python support :(?18:18
sikoryeverybody has python support18:18
CalinouKurtKraut: nginx lacks modules so it is harder to install things like SSL, no?18:18
NeshemahXFCE is lovely, it's a GNOME 2 replacement, I agree. I used it and liked for a long time, but I preffer Cinnamon or perhaps MATE.18:18
Calinousikory: everybody has an i718:18
FabianSRobinJ: You can't really put third-party operating systems on mobile phones.18:18
tioxHenceforth, it looks like Windows, people like GNOME 2.x.18:18
Calinoupython, lol18:18
RollinV2purple is color of the year18:18
RobinJjqmmes_, well, it's open source, so it just depends on whether someone occupies himself with porting python18:18
FabianSRobinJ: All SoCs feature lots and lots of propietary drivers.18:18
CalinouFabianS: if the bootloader is unlockable you can18:18
FabianSThat can't be ported at all.18:18
FabianSNo, you can't.18:18
Calinoualso, that18:18
FabianSIt might boot up.18:19
KurtKrautCalinou, I wouldn't say harder, just different. Requires re-learning. But the performance benefit pays off.18:19
jqmmes_you i know, but on the site they dont talk about it... only c,c++ js18:19
RobinJFabianS, that depends; it's both linux, so the core would remain the same18:19
FabianSBut that's pretty much it.18:19
RollinV2need processor support18:19
tioxBlame Microsoft's 25 years of cramming the start button down our throats.18:19
FabianSRobinJ: Android is Linux too.18:19
FabianSBut they have completely different drivers.18:19
RobinJFabianS, .... that's what i just said18:19
RollinV2FabianS, dont tell people that. lol18:19
sikoryCalinou: i7?18:19
NeshemahXFCE is a bit obsolete, too. It uses GTK2.18:19
FabianSEven Custom ROMs don't really change anything.18:19
sikoryI use a 9 year old pentium 418:19
Jordan_UThundarr: That kind of comment is clearly innapropriate.18:19
RobinJFabianS, true, but you can replace drivers on rooter android phones too18:19
FabianSThe replace some userland. That's it.18:19
NeshemahNot as obsolete as MATE/Gnome 2.18:19
KurtKrautCalinou, and when I say performance benefit, it is a very good one. In my scenario, 10x more concurrent connections where supported for the same website.18:19
FabianSBecause you don't have access to drivers for any other kernel versions.18:19
RobinJit's up18:19
NeshemahBut to win users Canonical should so something like Cinnamon, but it's too late.18:19
CalinouNeshemah: i don't use mint because it 1) lacks polishing 2) is amateur (ads on website? no thanks)18:20
Calinouit is also even slower than ubuntu :D18:20
sikoryads on the internet? where?18:20
tioxNeshemah: Before MATRE, XFCE was the only GNOME 2-like interface. And I kinda liked it.18:20
NeshemahCalinou, and what about ads on the launcher?18:20
RollinV2who seriously would argue gnome3 is the proper evolution of gnome 2?18:20
CalinouKurtKraut: ah, ok18:20
NeshemahI preffer XFCE to MATE too, tiox.18:20
CalinouNeshemah: xfce here, xubuntu18:20
NeshemahBut Cinnamon to all the others.18:20
AlanBellbkerensa-ofc: so how much is it, and when can I buy it?18:20
RobinJ“We also invited a way to use an app without having to use buttons at all via a voice-controlled ‘HUD’.18:20
RobinJhmmm interesting idea18:20
NeshemahCalinou, but Xubuntu isn't managed by Canonical.18:20
NeshemahI like it.18:20
CalinouNeshemah: yeah, so it is community-managed like mint18:20
tioxCalinou: There is no war.18:20
NeshemahWhat I don't like is the way that Canonical manages the things.18:20
RollinV2RobinJ, apple and google already do that with voice search18:20
RobinJBut the first pure Ubuntu  Phone devices will appear towards the end of the year. << ok don't get too excited yet18:21
NeshemahLike... forcing the newbies to use Unity.18:21
Calinouwindows 8 has lots of "adware" too18:21
bkerensa-ofcAny questions or Rick Spencer or Jono Bacon?18:21
NeshemahMint shows all the options very clearly.18:21
FabianSVoice controll will probably stay a boring gadget forever.18:21
RobinJRollinV2, HUD, not voice search18:21
tioxMy point is, the majrity will flock to what looks like Windows' taskbar, solely out of familiarity.18:21
FabianSNobody really uses S-Voice or Siri.18:21
NeshemahWhereas there's nothing about derivatives at Ubuntu's download page.18:21
FabianSExcapt for fooling around with it.18:21
RobinJUnlike Android, Ubuntu Phone OS has been designed from the ground up to deliver a ‘crisper, sharper’ experience on low-powered devices – a market segment Shuttleworth sees as being key to adoption.18:21
CalinouFabianS: +118:21
Calinoubut smartphone/tablet keyboards are really slow :318:21
Calinouphysical keyboards are just so much better18:21
FabianSBut people don't want them anymore.18:21
RobinJok this gives some vagua answer to my question :p Although Canonical’s ‘primary market will be selling Ubuntu Phones via retail, users will be able to download and install the phone OS on certain device handsets.18:21
NeshemahCalinou, Lubuntu is amazing, too.18:22
FabianSThe era of physical keyboards on phones is really over.18:22
Calinoulike wired stuff... ethernet, which is fast, wired mouses/keyboards, almost no latency... :(18:22
RollinV2depends on need, if you type daily.. you need a keyboard somewhere18:22
CalinouI use these, but the general user 1) uses all-in-one computer, 2) wireless mouse/keyboard, 3) wifi18:22
NeshemahIf all the Ubuntu family dies, I'd go with Manjaro :P18:22
FabianSAnd sadly the last generation with physical keyboard kinda sucks.18:22
FabianSMilestone 2 and Desire Z are simply too slow for android.18:22
CalinouNeshemah: noone uses manjaro, I stay away from no-one-uses-it distros18:22
tioxGImme Compiz, and I am happy. :P18:22
sikoryRollinV2: you don't want to use a phone if you type daily18:22
NeshemahBut at the moment, long live to ubuntu and mint.18:22
FabianSAnd 512 MB RAM is not enough.18:22
mhall119http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile for developing apps for the phone OS18:22
NeshemahCalinou, Manjaro  = Arch18:22
RollinV2sikory, exactly18:22
mhall119jono: JoseeAntonioR ^^18:22
FabianSAndroid needs at least a gig and a multi-core.18:22
NeshemahLots of people use Arch.18:22
FabianSElse it will run like crap.18:22
Calinouit is compatible but manjaro is not supported in #archlinux18:23
Calinouor archlinux forums18:23
RobinJMobile development suite will be available later this week. Developers will be able to create one app, with twi interfaces: a smartphone UI, and, when docked, a desktop UI. << so basically they're just extending on their ubuntu for android idea? :o18:23
Calinouthus you're forced to lie :D18:23
FabianSManjaro is a pretty stupid idea :p18:23
CalinouFabianS: 12GB RAM here 8)18:23
CalinouI could live with 4 I know. but it's enough to play minecraft :)18:23
JoseeAntonioRmhall119: thanks18:23
FabianSCalinou: I have 16. But only 512 M in my phone.18:23
RollinV2FabianS, naw. ubuntu runs like crap because the carriers put spamware on top of android18:23
FabianSWhich isn't nearly enough.18:23
FabianSRollinV2: Actually Cyanogen Mod runs worse on mine.18:23
sikory1 GB ram here18:23
CalinouRollinV2: +1, one more reason I dislike smartphones/tablets, lots of crapware and locked bootloader18:23
sikoryI bought a nokia 100 today18:24
sikorybest phone ever18:24
Calinouit is way better to have a desktop where you can change the HW easily, you are not locked in, but there is no mobility18:24
Calinouyou don't need mobility most of the time18:24
FabianSJust compare Android to Meego.18:24
Calinouif you do, then it is a good time to "disconnect" for a bit :p18:24
Calinounokia makes overpriced phones today18:24
FabianSThe Nokia N9 actually has the same SoC as my Milestone 2.18:24
* Calinou points to nokia lumia 92018:24
FabianSThe exact same one.18:24
Calinou900 euros? no thanks18:24
RobinJthis looks truly epic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4&feature=player_embedded18:24
FabianSAnd the N9 runs like butter with 20+ apps backgrounded.18:25
sikorymany people need a smartphone because they are addicted to it18:25
FabianSAndroid lags like crazy18:25
FabianSOn the MS2.18:25
Calinouandroid is slow, java :|18:25
FabianSJava isn't that slow.18:25
Calinouwhy can't people use luajit which is pretty fast, and even simpler than java?18:25
Calinoui know18:25
FabianSBut it needs tons of RAM.18:25
FabianSLuajit probably isn't as fast as Java.18:25
sikoryonly use C18:25
sikoryand asm18:25
FabianSJava is not that much slower than C anyway.18:25
sikoryI only use C18:25
CalinouFabianS: luajit is about 5% slower than C usually. and don't forget it is even simpler than java to learn and use18:26
sikoryand python when speed doesn't matter18:26
highvoltagein many cases java is faster than pure C18:26
Calinouhigh level, not mid-level18:26
FabianSBut Lua sucks balls.18:26
RollinV2ubuntu offices kinda nice at @ 14:00 in that youtube video18:26
Calinouwhy? :P18:26
sikoryhighvoltage: then you're doing it wrong18:26
bkerensa-ofcAny questions for Jono Bacon?18:26
FabianSIt's probably much too simple to write bug applications and the syntax is kinda horrible.18:26
Calinoulots of RAM == I can say "RAM" is cheap for desktops, but not for handheld devices18:26
highvoltagesikory: not necessarily. (ftr I don't use Java)18:27
FabianSPower consumption is an issue.18:27
Calinouoops, move the quotes around a bit :P18:27
FabianS2 GB of RAM pull quite a lot of juice.18:27
sikoryhighvoltage: me neither18:27
RollinV2bkerensa-ofc, what phone bare min stats are they targeting with ubuntu phone OS?18:27
Calinousmartphones/tablets use ARM CPUs and integrated GPUs already, as if they can't save power18:27
einonmSo how does the revenue stream for Canonical work for this phone OS?18:27
Calinoupeople always keep brightness to max, and 3G enabled all the time, and "push" too18:27
sikorybut system language has to be faster than something running in a VM for the same calls18:27
FabianSAnd ARM CPUs are really bad on memory bandwith.18:27
Calinouthat's why their phones last no more than 5 hours18:27
Calinoux86 ftw! noisy but fast. :318:28
sikoryCalinou: don't forget bluetooth18:28
FabianSBluetooth doesn't affect battery at all.18:28
Calinoubluetooth *vomits a frame pointer*18:28
sikorya noisy phone isn't really useful18:28
Calinoubluetooth daemon is disabled on my computer, saves 20MB ram and boot time18:28
FabianSLike GPS doesn't.18:28
CalinouI have no bluetooth device 8)18:28
sikoryI use haiku, that saves boot time like a maniac18:28
FabianSBut I expect a smartphone to have push and 3g on all the time.18:29
FabianSSo that's no excuse for horrible battery life.18:29
RollinV2qml .. oh boy18:29
sikoryI expect a smartphone to drain a lot18:29
sikory... of my attention18:29
MercuryI wonder who the manufactures are going to be out of the gate.18:29
CalinouFabianS: push is beyond pointless, it's like automatic updating18:29
kvarley1Is there any word on whether the Ubuntu Phone OS will also do a similar thing to Ubuntu for Android? If it could act as phone and desktop it would be amazing18:30
FabianSI want to get notified if I get mails or chat messages.18:30
FabianSNot 20 minutes later.18:30
RollinV2ubuntu OS might catch on if carriers can fully brand the OS and include tons of adware18:30
FabianSHell, my first phone had "push". It's called SMS.18:30
tioxRollinV2: lol!18:30
FabianSSo I expect my 400€ Phone to be able to do the same.18:30
RollinV2voice = data, think abou that next time you look at your cell bill18:30
CalinouI wonder why MMS still exists. can't phone manufacturers use HTML instead? :<18:30
CalinouFabianS: notifications are not your friend, they're only useful to stress you18:31
tioxSome manufacturers mod the shit out of stock Android so mucu... you're not really using Android anymore.18:31
kvarley1Calinou: Probably a lot to do with legacy support18:31
CalinouI like not being notified when something happens 8)18:31
FabianSCalinou: That's your opinion.18:31
Calinouif someone wants to say something important then they call me18:31
FabianSI simply expect that functionality.18:31
RollinV2tiox, sense is the reason i refuse to buy HTC android devices18:31
FabianSWithout having to fall back to SMS.18:31
IdleOnetiox: Please keep the language clean18:31
Calinoukvarley1: more like... monies18:31
MercuryCalinou: MMS exists because that's how they like to bill for things.18:32
tioxThus, I believe that in the case of HTC, the OS listed should be HTC/Android instead of Android.18:32
FabianSFor some reason the Note II runs for ages on battery though.18:32
sikoryMMS is just a failed thing, but apparently implementing support is easy18:32
TheLordOfTimeoh so HERE'S where you all are.18:32
FabianSThe battery is twice as big as normal but it also has that huge screen and quadcore.18:33
FabianSNot sure what samsung did there.18:33
doctormonhello jono18:33
doctormonthanks for the invite18:33
Calinoutiox: it's not HTC/Android! it's HTC/Google/HTC/Android.18:33
sikorythere's no gnu in android18:33
FabianSThe Kernel is GNU.18:33
sikory*almost no18:33
jaduncanDoes this mean that Ubuntu for Android is dead?18:33
tioxCalinou: What?18:33
sikoryFabianS: no it isn't18:33
FabianSWell, it's GPL.18:33
JoseeAntonioRany questions, guys?18:33
FabianSNot GNU.18:33
zygajono: will there be an emulator for writing apps like there is for android?18:33
FabianSGNU license.18:34
sikoryGPL is not GNU18:34
=== stuart is now known as Guest99002
sikorythere are so many GPL programs18:34
FabianSIt's the GNU GPL.18:34
sikorybut that doesn't make the program a GNU program18:34
Calinouandroid is apache 2, permissive ftw!18:34
icerootFabianS: the G in GPL stands for GNU18:34
Calinounow every single "overlay" is proprietary :(18:34
bashrc`So, is this free software on a phone, but with the GNU toolchain?18:34
MercuryFabianS: GNU has multiple licenses, saying the GNU license is ambigious.18:34
Calinouiceroot: no, general18:34
Calinougeneral public license18:34
CalinouGNU GPL18:34
Calinouyey, an op was wrong18:35
jaduncanbashrc`: yeah, standard toolchain but with QML.18:35
SeanSdeveloper.ubuntu.com is 503ing?18:35
tioxRecursive acronyms and abbreviations with abbreviations in the, that stand for groups of people and stuff. That's Linux.18:35
snwhwill the phone OS 'rooted'18:35
FabianSI'm still sad that nokia killed Meego.18:35
mhall119SeanS: the box is getting more traffic than it can handle atm18:35
sikorylinux isn't an abbreviation18:35
FabianSThat was like the perfect phone OS.18:35
jacobwone would assume so18:35
tioxMy god the "Alphabet soup"-ness of Linux discussion scares noobs away so hard.18:35
FabianSDebian based and native Apps using QT.18:36
RollinV2thats good18:36
MercuryWill it be Ubuntu with X or Wayland as the core, or will it be something more specialized?18:36
FabianSAnd fast as hell.18:36
kvarley1How hard will it be to port Ubuntu to existing android devices assuming there is access to root and busybox?18:36
icerootbut if i get it correctly we will have 2 different guis? the real Desktop Gui (Unity which is used at the moment on the desktopsystems) when the phone is connected via dock and a special gui when using the phone directly?18:36
FabianSBut noooo. We need Webapps on the desktop.18:36
sikoryooh, wayland wayland wayland!18:36
Guest99002What integration will the phone have with the Ubuntu desktop?18:36
jacobwFabianS: what's wrong with html5/js? it's just another interpretter18:36
sikoryisn't unity made for phones?18:36
cjwatsonFabianS: fast - uh, they must have seriously sped up the browser from fremantle then18:36
sikory*touch screens rather18:36
cjwatson'cos fast that ain't18:36
tioxsikory: Mobile devices, yes.18:36
FabianSjacobw: It's slow as hell and requires tons of RAM?18:36
tioxPart of Canonical's "Multi-device future" blueprint.18:37
Mercurysikory: I'll take either over yet another custom layer talking to a framebuffer like they did for both Android and WebOS.18:37
FabianSAJAX is slow even on laptop CPUs.18:37
jacobwFabianS: like WebOS did?18:37
sikorymy laptop is a mobile device, but I don't run Unity on that18:37
FabianSWhich are a lot faster than those tiny ARMs.18:37
webdessertsAll I want to know, is can I run Vim on it?18:37
RollinV2for database apps html5/js is ok.. but for games, etc? nope nope nope18:37
FabianSjacobw: Never tried WebOS. Did they actually release some decent phone with that OS?18:37
seiflotfyhey guys18:37
gotwigmhall119, hey there18:37
RollinV2webOS died at the tablet level18:38
sikoryMercury: of course18:38
gotwigmhall119, Can I distribute my scope and lenses that I've develop for Ubuntu, for Ubuntu for phones?18:38
sikorywebdesserts: vim on a touchscreen?18:38
sikorythat can't work18:38
seiflotfyquick question, is zeitgeist used in ubuntu phone18:38
mhall119gotwig: yes, the scopes/lenses API will be the same between both18:38
FabianSFremantle? Was that on the n800?18:38
mhall119gotwig: nice huh?18:38
RollinV2sikory, i use vim during ssh to my server via android connect bot. it works nice!18:38
webdessertsyou can use vim on both the iPhone and android, you just need to attach a keyboard18:38
tioxEven if it did work, it'd rely on the bvirtual keyboard unless it's a Droid or some other phone with a physical board.18:38
jacobwFabianS: no, but they showed that using web technologies wasn't a pipe dream18:38
RobinJi wonder what bullshit richard stallman's going to say about ubuntu phone :p18:38
tioxvirtual keyboard*18:38
spjtIt would be nice if Bluetooth keyboards actually worked with it, unlike Android18:39
mhall119All of the Unity APIs should be the same between desktop and phone18:39
tioxRobinJ: Language. Watch it.18:39
sikoryRobinJ: there's nothing to say about it yet18:39
FabianSRobinJ: Like condemning sending everything you type to amazon? How could he.18:39
Guest99002Would the phone interact with an Ubuntu desktop without replacing it by docking?18:39
sikoryRollinV2: of course you can efficienty use your keystrokes18:39
RollinV2ok real talk, does RollinV2 run out and buy a c7 chromebook since we ain't getting a ubuntu tablet anytime soon18:39
doctormonmhall119: Wouldn't be much good if it were different.18:39
FabianSThat "shopping lens" was just insanely stupid.18:39
sikorystill, I wouldn't use a touchscreen for editing textfiles at all18:39
mhall119doctormon: tell that to MS :)18:39
nolan1I see lots of talk about the phone becoming a desktop when it is docked. Will it be possible to use the desktop on your phone without it being docked, say for those of us who don't need screens?18:39
FabianSNot sure what those devs at Canonical thought about that.18:39
seiflotfyis there an image somewhere?18:39
tioxFabianS: Advertising is what you get when users don't donate.18:40
magespawnwebdesserts you can run vim touch on Android18:40
cjwatsonFabianS: fremantle - n90018:40
doctormonmhall119: No one listens to me in Ubuntu, how far would I get with Microsoft :-P18:40
RollinV2sikory, i thought the same. but with a good virtual keyboard (hackerskeyboard on android) it works fine for light editing18:40
gotwigmhall119, :>18:40
gotwigmhall119, I should relearn some stuff ^^18:40
* nolan1 is blind, thinking it'd be awesome to have a laptop in his pocket and a small BT keyboard on the go, then a full-sized keyboard/speaker system at home. :)18:40
mhall119doctormon: I listen :P18:40
FabianSStallman is a fundamentalist. But usually the stuff he says isn't wrong.18:40
sikoryRollinV2: tablet or pone?18:40
robin-glostermhall119: do you have more information on the image for galaxy nexus?18:41
popeydoctormon: we listen18:41
Calinou<snwh> will the phone OS 'rooted'18:41
RollinV2sikory, tablet. though i could do the same on my phone18:41
mhall119robin-gloster: not yet, no18:41
doctormonpopey: lol18:41
Calinoudo that, send it as-is to OEMs18:41
Calinouthey'll be happy :D18:41
* popey puts his headphones back on to blot out doctormon ☺18:41
nolan1Also, I'm a bit worried about all this OEM talk. What will prevent OEMs from keeping phone users on 13.04 in 2015?18:41
JoseeAntonioRif you guys have any more questions, feel free to ask18:42
* tiox tests a theory...18:42
sikorynolan1: why would they care what people use after they bought their stuff?18:42
sikoryyay, Bacon18:42
sikoryI love bacon18:42
RollinV2nolan1, nothing. carriers want you to buy a new phone every 2 years18:42
jaduncansikory: returns, brand identity.18:42
nolan1sikory: I wonder that about Samsung, HTC, etc.18:42
tioxIt works! Any mention of the word Bacon will lead into discussion of bacon!18:42
cjwatsonnolan1: best thing we can do I suspect is to make sure as much of the code is in the primary Ubuntu archive as humanly possible18:42
jacobwnolan1: users18:42
SeanSlong story short, that is a yes :)18:43
Mercurysikory: Carriers have, 'interesting' rules on updates for phones.18:43
jaduncansikory: also planned obselence through lack of upgrades.18:43
sikoryiceroot: there is no bacon discussion, except that I now respond to you18:43
sikorytiox: there is no bacon discussion, except that I now respond to you18:43
nolan1Why would HTC care what I run on my phone? Doesn't keep them from making it difficult to switch to CM and upgrade to newer versions of Android.18:43
sikoryoops, not iceroot18:43
apecaesarthe new ubuntu phone will be "dockable" like Ubuntu for android? I mean, could I use my phone as my "notebook"?18:43
Mercurysikory: Such as requiring that there be a fairly impressive (and expensive / time consuming) testing process done before it can be sent OTA.18:43
Mercurysikory: And that dance is per carrier, naturally.18:43
icerootsikory: np18:43
doctormonpopey: I'm just grinding your diamonds. you know we love you guys really.18:43
sikoryI don't understand those rules at all either18:43
tioxSee, you love bacon so much, the mention of it made you shaky and mess up your typing. :P18:43
sikorytiox: indeed, bacon is awesome18:44
icerootapecaesar: yes18:44
RollinV2nolan1, HTC cares because they have advertising deals in place with Nascar and other uninstallable bloatware apps18:44
sikorytiox: did you kow there's even chocolate covered bacon18:44
icerootapecaesar: thats what i got as an answer to my similar question18:44
Mercurysikory: That is quite beneficial for the phone carrier's current business model, but it means that the phone makers are just not going to spend the money to recertify 2 year old devices.18:44
tioxYes I did.18:44
kvarley1apecaesar: On high end models this will be possible in the future apparently. See OMGUbuntu for more18:44
nolan1RollinV2: Exactly, so I want to hear how Canonical plans to prevent that so that Linux for human beings doesn't become Linux for OEMs.18:45
sikorynolan1: who says they want those plans18:45
RollinV2nolan1, im hopeing the phone OS has terminal support for add/remove packages.18:45
popeydoctormon: of course, and honestly we need people on the outside keeping us grounded18:45
nolan1sikory: "They" being Canonical, and "those plans" being letting users upgrade? If so, then I don't know. I just assume that Linux for human beings would permit that level of customization.18:46
=== gbs is now known as fserve_
tioxNow, in my opinion, it should be ILLEGAL to modify an end product for the consumer. Microsoft for instance; I am okay with OEMs including crapware which may in some time compromise system performance -- If they make it installable, and not put it on the system immediately18:46
apecaesarlet`s learn how to code in hml5 and do many apps!!!18:46
Calinouwhat firefox OS does basically18:47
jaduncantiox: ironically, this would be an infringement of software freedom.18:47
Calinounow let's all flame apecaesar because html5 is so slow18:47
Calinouj/k :P18:47
* DavidBradbury already creates HTML5 apps for a living18:47
Calinoujaduncan: OEMs use that freedom wrongly, very18:47
CalinouDavidBradbury: now release github and twitter's source code, kthx18:47
webdessertsWill the terminal for the phone be touch friendly, or will it look similar to your desktop terminal?18:47
Calinoualso the nvidia driver one18:47
tioxThere would still be software freedom -- The freedom fr users to dictate what exactly they want on their machines!18:47
popeyJoseeAntonioR: question from a friend... "what will be the state of accessibility in this phone?" "Is18:48
popeythere anything I can do to test it out"18:48
sikorybut if the freedom is only for the OEMs that isn't freedom for the end-user18:48
jaduncancalinou: that's freedom for you. I'm not sure we'd want to prevent System76 from installing a custom webcam driver that isn't in the normal build.18:48
DavidBradburyCalinou: Totally - If I didn't work for a private company that creates these apps for other companies :)18:48
RobinJreview board can't keep up? no shit, i've still got two apps in here (https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/) that have been "pending review" for half a year now; that's why i ditched ubuntu as a development platform18:48
mhall119RobinJ: we're working on fixing that process for you18:48
CalinouRobinJ: now develop arch for harshlinux18:48
Calinouupload it to AUR18:48
jaduncansikory: I agree that Tivoization shouldn't be OK, but that's the main focus of GPL v3.18:48
DJonesRobinJ: Mind the language18:48
sikoryprobably the hardware side will be completely locked down, as with android, because hardware people really don't like to liberate their stuff.18:48
Calinou"lol omg this doesnt work" :D18:48
* nolan1 hopes it will be accessible. For all Canonical's talk about accessibility, its access team is so small it can only guarantee LTS release accessibility.18:49
sikoryjaduncan: no, it's what OEMs do with all the junk (adware) they insert in windows18:49
sikoryI was referring to that18:49
HumanBeingWhat's about Ubuntu for Android? Will it still be developed?18:49
nolan1Which is sad for a company that charges ahead in so many other areas, I'd hope Canonical could grow its access team in proportion to Unity/server/other areas.18:49
sikoryalso Linus doesn't like gpl v318:49
jaduncansikory: it's very hard to define in the licence what is and isn't junkware.18:49
sikoryjaduncan: I don't say you should18:49
david23400We need a new phone ubuntu based or we can install it on an android device?18:49
sikoryjaduncan: but windows isn't free for the end-user at all18:50
tioxjaduncan: Here's the line for me: What I bought | What I didn't ask for18:50
jaduncanno, but Android is. It also has crapware on an open source OS.18:50
FabianSAndroid is hardly Open Source.18:50
FabianSEven Nexus aren't.18:50
tioxNow, there is some software that is necessary for the machine to work, absolutely. That isn't junkware.18:51
sikorytiox: you pay less because of those "ads"18:51
FabianSYour "normal" android phone has all closed drivers and UI.18:51
tioxHow much less?18:51
RollinV2subsidized by ads18:51
RobinJjono, can we also develop for it, and thus participate in the showdown, without buying a €600 phone?18:51
sikorytiox: a fair amount, I don't know the figures18:51
FabianSNexus have an OS UI but that's about it18:51
unr34lIf I install ubuntu on my phone, will support all the sensors and cameras ?18:51
tioxI could buy a Windows machine from Microsoft for cheaper than I can buy OEM machines in some stores!18:51
sikorybut if it would be like €5, I don't think OEMs would insert it18:51
highvoltageengadged claims to have gone hands-on with an ubuntu phone already: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/18:51
jaduncantiox: generally more than the Windows licence fee, put it that way.18:51
DavidBradburyI'd swear that some of the people here have never used a phone and never worked for a company before. Ugg.18:51
tioxAnd they don't have bloatware!18:51
david23400the phone which is showed is a Galaxy Nexus , isnt it?18:52
sikorytiox: microsoft sells machines?18:52
RollinV2demo hardware18:52
sikoryexcept for those tablets18:52
jaduncanso, again, does this mean that Ubuntu on Android is dead?18:52
FabianSdavid23400: yep.18:52
sikoryI know about them18:52
CommieDoreWhat will be the widget toolkit? GTK? QT? e17?18:52
david23400FabianS: so it can be run on some android devices? cool :D18:53
tioxThen again, the Microsoft store is all about Suface now, so that might had been true a couple years ago.18:53
FabianSIt might run on the Galaxy Nexus.18:53
david23400NExus 418:53
Cantidejaduncan, it seems to me like Ubuntu for Android is actually one of the pieces of this Ubuntu phone18:53
FabianSNo. The pictures show a Gnexus.18:53
FabianSNo Nexus4.18:53
user82did they mention android apps on ubuntu anywhere?18:53
doctormonNo python? Just C and C++?18:54
spjtUbuntu is going to be closed in that sense since it's designed to use Android drivers.18:54
FabianSI wouldn't miss android apps really.18:54
IdleOnejono, popey, bkerensa: right now All I keep hearing as an answer to any question being asked is: We don't have this ready. I am not sure how we are going to do this. We need to get organised... Why did Canonical make such a big to do about something that doesn't exist yet?18:54
FabianSThere isn't a lot of good android apps.18:54
sikorydoctormon: there will surely be python, just as it is on your pc18:54
DarkArgonc, c++ and js18:54
snwhQUESTION: would users be able to switch to the phone UI on the desktop, if they are one and the same?18:54
david23400i personnaly dont care of games or such apps.. i think there are the apps that i need.. evernote , facebook twitter18:54
sikorymaybe not is a "native" setting18:54
RollinV2FabianS, there are plenty. iOS store just filled with more trash apps18:54
popeyIdleOne: it does exist, I've held it18:54
FabianSRollinV2: Both stores are filled with horrible apps.18:55
sikoryfarcebook is a terrible company18:55
FabianSBut there are hardly any good ones.18:55
popeyIdleOne: so we release late, we get panned, we release early, we get panned,18:55
popeywhat exactly should we do?18:55
Cantidejaduncan, read this page -> http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/02/announcing-ubuntu-for-phones/18:55
IdleOnepopey: So there is a half dozen units in an office somewhere that aren't ready for sale.18:55
jaduncanCantide: Ubuntu for Android ties into a lot of the google apps databases. Those can't be copied across, and Ubuntu for Android now runs on a competitor platform. Which kind of sucks, becuase if Ubuntu for Android dies I won't get to run it on my phone. :)18:55
tioxDo remember, Canonical is breaking even because of users choosing to use Ubuntu, and purchase related software, hardware and services.18:55
jaduncanCantide: Read it, no answer on that there.18:56
tioxI believe before it even touches OEMs, Ubuntu Phone should be an OS installable on rooted phones.18:56
FabianSI think I wouldn't really miss apps even on Meego.18:56
FabianSMaybe Whatsapp.18:56
FabianSBut everything else I need is there.18:56
spjtIs there an image that I could load on an android emulator?18:56
popeyIdleOne: I think it's great we're showing this as soon as we can :D18:56
tioxWhich wouldmean all the epople on CyanogenMod, MIUI, Apex etc. would be on it, see it, and make a reasonable conclusion whether it's something to get behind, or if Canoncal wasted their time and resources.18:57
IdleOnejono, popey: Thank you for the answers18:57
tioxOMG typing! Grr.18:57
CommieDoreWill there be a lot of "glorified bookmark" apps on Ubuntu Mobile too? I get a lot of them in the Chrome Webstore...18:57
sikorywe have to see what this will become in a year, I'm still not convinced that this will really go through18:58
HumanBeingit would be a cool thing for the NexPhone18:58
doctormonjono: I'm surprised Canonical went down the route of automisation over pushing the review process to third party commercial vendors. Making the 'Ubuntu Developer' position more valuable than just people getting their own packages in.18:58
spjtdeveloper.ubuntu.com is down18:59
mhall119doctormon: review has always been a bottleneck, both for distro packages and independent apps18:59
=== david23400 is now known as David_BUsy
mhall119automation is the only real long-term solution18:59
Garbeepopey, In response to release late vs early. I'd tend to go for a little late since that tends to mean a better product.18:59
CommieDoreNow, is the QML Core very flexible as far as customization?18:59
spjtI think it's a good sign compared to Windows Phone that the developer site is down :)18:59
doctormonI've spent about 500 hours last year writing xbmc plugins and patches. Why haven't I been writing Ubuntu TV code?19:00
sikoryit's never good when a site goes down, they did something wrong19:00
tioxBecause it sucks?19:00
RollinV2doctormon, thank you for your hard work.19:00
* tiox trolls19:00
tioxActually, I never saw Ubuntu TV in action anywhere. Don't have the HTPC to commit.19:01
doctormonThere's a lot of Ubuntu projects which are seemingly impossible to participate in because they don't seem to deliver anything.19:01
tioxdoctormon: Remember, if you told people that Vs were going to have and drives and internet ten years ago, you would have been laughed at and shamed.19:02
sikorywhy would people want a full operating system on their tv?19:02
mhall119doctormon: such as?19:02
sikoryTVs have internet?19:02
doctormontiox: No, ten years ago it was predictible and inevitable.19:02
tioxWoaht what? Typing, woah woah...19:02
sikoryeven more surprised that they have drives19:02
doctormonmhall119: Ubuntu TV, ubuntu for android, ubuntu for cloud, stuff that has just bounced off my ability to partcipate.19:03
tioxThe keyboard, tiox, use it... Spellcheck, use it...19:03
mhall119doctormon: Ubuntu TV has been open to participation for almost a year now19:03
CommieDoreWill I be able to install Arch on the Ubuntu Phone? (Wait, they removed the installer... Nevermind :) )19:03
cielaknot sure if anyone asked it yet, but I'm just wondering if Quickly will provide features for apps on the phone19:03
mhall119UfA wasn't really a modified Ubuntu19:04
mhall119Ubuntu server and juju are both open to participation19:04
FabianSCommieDore: Arch didn't remove the installer.19:04
FabianSThey replaced it with a better one.19:04
CommieDoreFabianS: I thought it removed the install scripts19:04
mhall119cielak: I plan on working with people to get a Quickly template for phone apps, yes19:04
cielakmhall119: cool! thanks19:04
tioxWhat boggles me is why everyone wants all the hardware in the TV.19:04
hrnzCantide: the arch install scripts replace the arch installation framework19:04
FabianSThey replaced the Arch Install Framework with the Arch Install Scripts.19:04
FabianShrnz: fuck you :p19:04
hrnzFabianS: <319:04
IdleOne!language | FabianS19:05
ubot5FabianS: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.19:05
CommieDoreFabianS: So, I don't have to chroot and use mk2fs.ext4 and stuff like that?19:05
hrnzCommieDore: yes.19:05
tioxYou don't see any internet-enabled monitors in market, so why internet-enabled televisions all a sudden?19:05
hrnzeh wait19:05
hrnzyou have to create your filesystems and chroot19:05
SeanStiox: isn't a tablet, a internet enabled monitor?19:05
spjtwhatever, i'm going to go shopping and hope that developer.ubuntu.com is back up when I return :)19:06
tioxTrue... right.19:06
irvtiox: trends towards all-in-one style devices19:06
tioxGuess what I am saying is that I am tired of integrated electronics where if one thing breaks, you have to take apart the sodding rig to fix it, or submit to reseling the phone.19:06
irvwhy have a TV and a set-top box when you can have a TV with one built in19:06
irv(sucks, but that's the way it is)19:07
snwhThe Verge has a hands-on video: http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/3828266/ubuntu-phone-os-hands-on19:07
SeanSsame reason that Apple is looking at the TV again.19:07
tioxreselling the device rather.19:07
cielaksnwh: thanks!19:07
irvit's stupid for consumers, but great for device makers19:07
SeanSagreed, tiox19:07
tioxIf it were entirely up to me, then everything would be modular and easy to replace. I believe that's pitchable to consumers, if you make replacement of components easy -- Or are the sheeple truly that incapable of understanding how their "Magic boxes" work?19:08
SeanSI imagine there are a few people out there with TVs with DVD players built in that hardly get any use19:09
SeanStoo many remotes :P19:09
irvit's also about selling people a new TV19:09
FabianSYou can't build a modular phone.19:09
irvwhy sell them a $100 box that goes on top of the tv when you can sell them a whole tv19:09
irvwith the $100 box built in19:09
sikorythere are also those TVs with built in VHS players19:09
FabianSThe hardware is much too small.19:09
tioxYep, seen them.19:09
sikoryirv: you really want to do computing on your tv?19:09
sikorywith a remote19:10
tioxI have a TV with a built-in DVD player. Hardly got used, then when my uncle came over to use it, somehow he broke that.19:10
irvi said a set-top box19:10
irvthat's generally designed for consuming media19:10
tioxI mean, no physical components were broken, it's just it refuses to play disks now.19:10
irvwhich is waht most people use their tvs for19:10
sikoryah ok19:10
irvbut, i agree it's useful to be able to launch youtube on the tv19:10
irvbrowse a website19:10
sikoryirv: I agree that19:10
sikorybut do TVs really have drives in them?19:11
irvwriting code on the tv, not so much.. especially not with a remote control19:11
irvmaybe with a keyboard19:11
sikoryirv: coding with a remote control, in vim19:11
irvyeah, that's the plan19:11
hrnzFabianS: you know that non ubuntu users aren't allowed here? :)19:11
irv'smart tv'19:11
sikoryI would try that if I could19:11
TheLordOfTimewindows phones are evil.19:11
irvhas storage in it19:11
FabianShrnz: I use ubuntu on my university workstations!.19:11
sikoryhrnz: they aren't?19:11
FabianSWell, I have to :p19:11
hrnzFabianS: ;)19:12
hrnzsikory: i have absolutely no idea19:12
sikoryTheLordOfTime: preaching to the choir19:12
hrnzsikory: never been here before19:12
sikoryhrnz: I guess not19:12
sikoryme neither19:12
CommieDoreIt's never the year for linux, that's said every year!19:12
sikoryand I don't use plain ubuntu19:12
TheLordOfTimeCommieDore, stop being negative.19:12
CommieDoreI thought 2007 was the year for linux?19:12
hrnzCommieDore: yes it was19:12
sikoryit's going to be the year of the gnu/linux desktop19:13
hrnzCommieDore: and every year since19:13
sikoryso this year as well19:13
TheLordOfTimeits the perpetual "Year of Linux" every year.19:13
RollinV2whats best place to talk about ubuntu on c7 chromebook?19:13
CommieDoreWell, It's not "year of the dragon" every Chinese New Year19:13
sikoryRollinV2: #ubuntu-discuss19:13
sikorymaybe not19:13
sikoryI've never been here19:14
IdleOnesikory: perfect answer19:14
RollinV2sikory, lol.19:14
IdleOne-discuss is the channel to "talk" about ubuntu.19:14
* RollinV2 just wants to know if $200 is worth it for a ubuntu powered chromebook 19:14
IdleOnesounds like a reasonable price to me19:15
RollinV2i think so too, but i see people having hardware issues after ubuntu updates with chrubuntu19:15
RollinV2plus, im unsure of 720p playback smoothness19:16
NexuusIs the intention for the new phone to be dockable and become a full desktop?  That would be a killer feature.19:19
CommieDoreI think before they move to wayland, it will be a *.10 release. Mark's smart enough to know not to ship a 1.0 product on a LTS19:19
HumanBeingDoes anybody know what's going on with the NexPhone?19:20
* tiox is presently using Mint, and is an ex-Ubuntu user19:20
doctormonThe multiple platforms might prove to be a distraction from the desktop. But maybe it'll be a multiplier, would be unique though. For instance we have pretty poor contacts/email/messaging on the desktop, that might be improved greatly by a phone platform.19:20
sikorywayland will take a while19:20
CommieDoreI would guess 14.10 would have wayland19:20
sikorypoor email? Thunderbird is awesome19:20
CommieDorebut not 14.0419:20
Thundarrits a group of people with limited resources expanding out away from the core product they should be caring for.19:21
tioxWhat is Wayland exactly?19:21
sikoryCommieDore: already?19:21
Thundarrbad idea19:21
CommieDoresikory: I'm just guessing19:21
user82CommieDore: +119:21
user82on 14.1019:21
sikoryThundarr: most Free software project are19:21
* RollinV2 is using Luna. ubuntu is ok as long as you avoid unity19:21
FabianSThe problem with wayland is the lack of drivers.19:21
FabianSA display server that only runs on Intel GPUs would be kinda bad.19:21
sikoryand that it's not finished yet19:21
FabianSWell, it works.19:22
doctormonsikory: yeah, thunderbird, evolution etc, they all follow the same weird 1995 design which is just damn poor for 2013.19:22
tioxAh, I see now. So Wayland is to be the successor to X?19:22
sikorydoctormon: why would that be bad19:22
FabianSWayland looks really promising.19:22
sikorydoctormon: the desine of bash is even older19:22
FabianSMuch better than X11.19:22
doctormonsikory: Bash has it's issues, but it's much more internally consistant than email.19:22
FabianSX is really really really old.19:23
tioxUsing Skype for Linux puts me back in 1995; In a really bad way.19:23
FabianSTwice as old as linux in fact.19:23
FabianSAnd that shows.19:23
sikorythe things they chose then were reasonable19:23
snwhQUESTION: how is advertising going to work in the phone app ecosystem? or will there be advertising?19:23
FabianSThey were reasonable in 1985, yes.19:23
FabianSBut they are extremely stupid today.19:23
sikorythat's what I meant19:24
cjwatsonIt's kind of a successor to the back half of X19:24
CommieDoreI hope we can install Ubuntu Phone OS on the old Sony VAIO-UX (The full desktop x86 smartphone)19:24
FabianSIn X WM, display Server and Compositor are three different programs. That's insane.19:24
sikorydoctormon: a mail client doesn't need many bells and whistles aka "design"19:24
doctormonsikory: no... bells and whistles are the very opposite of design.19:24
joelinuxI wish they would at least show a short phone demo.19:24
sikorylike those screens that explode and make a triple roll before minimising19:24
sikorydoctormon: a good design is timeless :p19:25
joelinuxThey've spent so much time talking about Ubuntu on Nexus 7 on the blogs.19:25
mhall119joelinux: there are videos online19:25
FabianSjoelinux: The Verge has a handson video.19:25
doctormonsikory: be careful with your infinities. But email has not remained static for 20 years.19:25
sikorythe protocol is pretty much the same19:25
joelinuxmhall119: Yea but there are a lot of people watching right now that don't know about those.19:25
SeanSjoelinux: did you see the trailer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB419:25
mhall119joelinux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXWnMTm7We8&feature=player_embedded19:26
doctormonsikory: So is the http protocol, I'm sure the web is _exactly_ the same as it was in 1995.19:26
tioxI do hope that Wayland is only a codename, and that it'll take on a more universal name on release.19:26
FabianSWhat's wrong with "wayland"?19:26
sikorydoctormon: but mail is messages + attachments, only more19:26
SeanSor that, thanks mhall119  :)19:26
sikoryFabianS: it's not done yet19:26
FabianSsikory: I mean with the name.19:26
doctormonsikory: that's not how people use email.19:26
sikoryI do19:26
sikoryhow else would you use mail?19:27
sikoryok, some sort of filing system is nice19:27
doctormonsikory: you're unique to never get a notifier, never use mailing lists or linked resources.19:27
sikorynotifiers are evil19:27
doctormonsikory: I agree, but there they are.19:27
sikoryI check my mail when I want, not when someone else wants19:27
CommieDoreNo, a democratic solution. I thought this was a meritocracy? ;)19:28
cheese1756Wow, Ubuntu for mobile looks far better than Android19:28
cheese1756Pretty nice looking19:28
sikorydoctormon: so I disable them19:28
FabianScheese1756: Too slow.19:28
tolaDoes anyone know what the browser app will be in Ubuntu for Phones?19:28
FabianSThe Galaxy Nexus is still a really fast device.19:28
FabianSIt shouldn't lag.19:28
WanderingEnderI'm wondering how this will work, this Ubuntu for Phones.19:28
FabianSEven Android 4.0 ran more smooth on it.19:28
doctormonsikory: _not_ those notifiers. The email ones. Like from facebook, twitter, ebay and what ever the hell sends you an email.19:28
cheese1756FabianS, I have a Galaxy Nexus, and I'll try it out once the builds are available19:28
WanderingEnderIts not that crazy insanity that Motorola was suggesting, was it19:28
cielak#ubuntu is trending now on g+ :)19:28
cheese1756I wouldn't be surprised if they're still tightening things up19:28
sikoryfacebook is actually evil19:28
Muphridwill it be possible to install ubuntu derivatives on the phone instead?19:29
doctormonsikory: Agreed, and yet there it is.19:29
FabianSUI looks really good though.19:29
sikorydoctormon: are those mail based?19:29
doctormonsikory: They send lots of emails.19:29
WanderingEnderMuphrid, woudln't they need to have been ported to ARM?19:29
MuphridWanderingEnder: yes,but  I'm more concerned about the bootloader19:29
CommieDoresikory: How do you suggest to fund a social network without datamining? People don't like paying for things19:29
doctormonsikory: My point is that email has been defined along the lines of it's technology. not along the lines of it's real use cases. It's poor design because it's targeting a myth.19:30
sikoryI suggest no social network via the internet19:30
sikorydoctormon: but the things you describe can be solved via a filing system in a mail client19:30
CommieDoreBye everybody and I love jono's shirt19:30
sikorythat's only one thing19:30
AikiMe and friends are wondering if with Qt being central on the phone, Canonical will switch Unity & co. to qt, and abandon Gnome.19:31
RzRany ubuntu phone developers ?19:33
* RzR ran regular ubuntu on his n950 :)19:33
mhall119Aiki: Qt is just a toolkit, Gnome is so much more than just Gtk19:34
=== SeanS is now known as SeanSlater
WanderingEnderI'm still trying to figure out what "Ubuntu for Phones" is. A version for ARM architecture phones?19:34
=== SeanSlater is now known as SeanS
mhall119everybody is welcome to join #ubuntu-phone for further discussions of this new project19:35
mhall119WanderingEnder: It's a full mobile UI based on Unity19:35
sikoryso people are sent from one place to the next19:35
mhall119sikory: #ubuntu-discuss is a pretty generic channel19:35
sikorybut this is -discuss, so people can discuss here19:35
mhall119sikory: you can yes19:35
mhall119but the long term channel will be #ubuntu-phone19:36
WanderingEnderAre there people with informati in #ubuntu-phone?19:36
sikoryyou need to have something to talk about19:36
mhall119WanderingEnder: I'm there, so there's that ;)19:36
RzR#ubuntu-mobile was open too19:36
=== DavidBradbury is now known as David_Bradbury
mhall119#ubuntu-mobile was for working on the core of Ubuntu, optimizing it for mobile hardware19:48
gotwigmhall119, where is the developer chat for the hangout :-) ?19:49
gotwigmhall119, why are there no points about scopes and lenses? http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/19:49
mhall119gotwig: #ubuntu-phone19:50
gotwigmhall119, :X alright19:50
=== RzR is now known as rZr
WaltherSo, nice work on the Ubuntu phone, when will it be available for download?20:31
DJonesWalther: Looks like discussion & support has been moved to #ubuntu-phone now20:42
WaltherAlso, any news on Ubuntu Nexus 7 project?21:04
WaltherPossible to dualboot yet without causing anything permanent / voiding warranty etc?21:04
reindeernixDoes anybody know if they will use Compiz for the Ubuntu phone? o:21:38
=== popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-discuss to: Welcome to #ubuntu-discuss. This is a channel for high quality on-topic non-support discussions about Ubuntu | Non Ubuntu stuff to #ubuntu-offtopic or the relevant other channel | We follow the CoC at all times here | No ranting here please | Ubuntu for Phones discussion has moved to #ubuntu-phone
popeyreindeernix: see /topic ;)21:39
reindeernixpopey, oh hehe oversaw that >.<21:41
=== jacobw is now known as jacobw_alter-ego
=== jacobw_alter-ego is now known as jacobw
=== nacho is now known as Guest54650
=== Guest54650 is now known as newwen
UnderControlMorning everyone.23:14
Thundarris there a down side to using lubuntu other than it being supposedly a bit bland looking? I know its the 'light weight' distro, but functionality wise, it works the same as any other buntu in practice, right?23:18
FabianSLubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Ubuntu are exactly the same.23:18
FabianSOnly with different default packages.23:18
Thundarrok, ty.23:19
ThundarrI kind of like that clean minimal look anyway.23:19
jrtappersShould we change the update center and software sources icons?23:29

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