h00koho look.18:24
seiflotfyhey guys18:31
seiflotfymhall119: around?18:31
mhall119seiflotfy: I am18:32
seiflotfyquick question, is zeitgeist being used in ubuntu phone?18:32
seiflotfyif yes are you guys using the qml bindings we created18:32
mhall119seiflotfy: no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me since it's used in Unity18:32
popeyyou probably want to use #ubuntu-discuss18:32
mhall119I don't know about QML bindings18:32
seiflotfymhall119: we have qml bindings since over a year now18:33
seiflotfymhall119: http://wm161.net/2011/10/28/libqzeitgeist-0-8-0/18:34
mhall119seiflotfy: cool, I'll pass that along18:34
boulabiarDoes the phone use wayland ?19:03
RzRare there ubuntu4android devels around ?19:36
RzRpop corns :)19:37
tolaDoes anyone know what will be the default browser for Ubuntu for Phones? Will it be Webkit or Gecko based?19:37
WanderingEnderok, so. The last thing I heard about this was awhile back. This is not the full stack, not some chrooted... thing.19:37
mhall119tola: I don't know if that's been decided yet19:38
Aikimhall119: I know qt is just a toolkit, but recently canonical has been cutting slices on the base ISO, so i thought it would be smart to switch all the focus to Qt.19:38
RzRWanderingEnder, yes I played w/ chroot too19:38
FabianSMost likely webkit.19:38
mhall119Aiki: even with a focus on Qt, there are a lot of Gnome components in Ubuntu that aren't going away anytime soon19:39
WanderingEnderI have a RAZR, original version (Droid, obviouzly), I'm wondering if I could put this on it.19:39
RzRbut I was wondering if there are public stuff to test out ?19:39
WanderingEnderWhen ther eare reference builds available.19:39
tolamhall119: What about the app runtime? Jono seems to think that will be Webkit, does anyone know otherwise?19:39
Muphridwhat will be the language for the SDK? QML?19:39
user82when will the images be available for testing..does anyone know?19:39
mhall119tola: for HTML5 apps?19:39
Aikimhall119: IC Pitty... :( Thanks though!19:39
tolamhall119: yes19:39
RzRcordova ?19:39
mhall119tola: again, I don't know, but Webkit wouldn't surprise me19:40
mhall119Muphrid: QML is going to be the recommended one19:40
mhall119but AFAIK it'll be open to others19:40
Muphridmhall119: alright, thanks19:40
tvossmhall119, ping19:41
tolamhall119: It would be a shame to miss out on all the new APIs being added to Gecko http://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI19:41
mhall119tvoss: pong19:41
tolamhall119: But maybe that's an incentive to add an implementation of those APIs to Webkit...19:42
mhall119tola: any API worth developing for should be as cross-platform as possible19:42
tolamhall119: Like the new Ubuntu application environment you mean?19:43
tolamhall119: (I agree, I'm just being sarcastic)19:43
WanderingEnderAlso, honest question.19:43
WanderingEnderHow badly are US carriers going to be able to gut Ubuntu.19:44
mhall119WanderingEnder: that's a business thing, I don't think anyone here can answer that19:44
mhall119ideally they wouldn't want to change it at all19:44
WanderingEnderYeah, but look at Verizon.19:45
WanderingEnderAlso, the overview page says you'll need an Atom or Quad Core A9 for desktop convergence.19:45
mhall119WanderingEnder: as a Verizon customer, I know exactly what you mean :)19:45
WanderingEnderI thought we were able to get away with dual core 1GHz for that.19:45
tolabtw, the reason I was asking about the web app runtime is that I've worked on some web apps that would be cool to port to Ubuntu for phones. They use the new Web APIs in Gecko, and one of them is a browser app (hence my other question) https://github.com/mozilla-b2g/gaia19:46
mhall119WanderingEnder: that I don't know about, I remember the UfA requirements originally said dual-core ARM19:46
ChelseaSo, after doing reading for the last hour straight on this subject, just to be clear on this whole matter, there is no product (just software and ecosystem). Just like the Ubuntu-TV, right?19:46
mhall119Chelsea: correct, this isn't something you can go get right now19:47
WanderingEnderThis is just high level for OEMs and operators. http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/operators-and-oems19:47
mhall119for Canonical, the softwre is the product, but there is no hardware19:47
WanderingEnder(Both to my statement of Quad Core and to 'where do I get this thing?')19:47
tolaWhere's the source code btw?19:49
Chelseamhall119, I really don't think a big "announcement" is the way to go if they're just looking for oems. This was old news allready. Some ppl's expectations where higher.19:49
mhall119tola: the components and toolkit are here: https://launchpad.net/~ui-toolkit/+archive/ppa19:49
mhall119instructiosn for instaling them are on http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/19:50
WanderingEnderI'm not really seeing anything new, actually, than the old announcement that just looked like "Motorola WebKit Native."19:50
gotwighey there19:50
WanderingEnderExcept that the requirements for desktop have doubled.19:50
Muphridrewriting my other question in the other channel: If I make an ubuntu customization (say a derivative) on the phone and make an image of it, is it possible to boot this new image on another phone? this is basically asking if the bootloader is locked19:50
gotwigwhat about scopes and lenses for ubuntu for phones? I dont see a point about that here http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/19:50
mhall119gotwig: there shouldn't be anything different for lenses/scopes on the phone interface19:50
gotwigmhall119, but how does the stuff show up :X19:51
mhall119gotwig: same way it does on the desktop19:51
gotwigmhall119, what is with the right click?19:51
WanderingEnderMuphrid, that's between you, your device manufacturer, and your carrier.19:51
mhall119gotwig: I don't know how previews will work, if that's what you mean19:51
gotwigmhall119, yeah ^^19:52
WanderingEnderI own a Verizon phone with a locked boot carrier, by Motorola. I expect hell to freeze over before Verizon acknoledges US law requiring interoperability.19:52
tolamhall119: Is that just for developing QML apps?19:52
mhall119gotwig: see the image at the top of http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/02/announcing-ubuntu-for-phones/ ?  Those are lenses on the phone19:52
mhall119tola: "that" being what?19:52
* RzR http://rzr.online.fr/q/ubuntu# is #UbuntuPhone open ? I plan to adapt it for !N950Club which already support !Ubuntu #Chroot (watch video)19:52
MuphridWanderingEnder: right, so it will be like android, the manufacturer decides19:52
FabianSBuing phones in the USA seems like a huge pain to me.19:52
mhall119FabianS: it is19:52
WanderingEnderMuphrid, its a cell phone. The carrier will always decide, and the manufacturer will obey.19:53
FabianSWith several non-compatible networks and stuff like that.19:53
FabianSAt least all the other countries agreed on one standard.19:53
WanderingEnderCanonical understands that, look at the OEMs and Carriers page.19:53
tolamhall119: Sorry, the "components and toolkit" you can download, do they only enable QML-based apps to be run?19:53
WanderingEnderNoting how you can develop your carrier specific bloatware easily.19:53
mhall119FabianS: except S. Korea, I think, who also uses CDMA19:53
gotwighide for the launcher on  the phone.. something i miss on my desktop19:53
mhall119tola: yes, those are the QML components19:53
FabianSmhall119: Do they have only CDMA or both CDMA and GSM?19:54
mhall119FabianS: probably both, like the USA19:54
mhall119you know, just to make it more difficult19:54
MuphridWanderingEnder: Can you link the page?19:54
FabianSHere the only real stupid thing is the choice of LTE frequencies.19:55
FabianSBut that's mainly apple's fault.19:55
WanderingEnderCarrier Exclusivity and Custom Capabilities.19:55
FabianSAll other phone companies managed to put LTE chips in their phones that support more than two frequencies.19:56
WanderingEnderI mean, basically, in the US, if you don't play ball with the carriers, the manufacturers will not use your OS, cause they carriers won't carry that phone.19:57
WanderingEnderSo, Canonical will guess how high when Verizon says jump.19:57
mhall119WanderingEnder: more likely there will be an OEM between19:58
WanderingEnderI guess I'm wondering how badly carriers and OEMs will rip this apart.20:00
jaduncanWanderingEnder: see Android.20:02
FabianSBut they hardly touched iOS and WP.20:02
=== RzR is now known as rZr
mhall119http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ is up and running again20:10
tvossmhall119, \o/20:10
sivanghi all20:25
=== tvoss is now known as tvoss|afk
mhall119hi sivang20:40
sivanghey mhall11920:40
sivangis this the channel that helped produce this: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/operators-and-oems ?20:40
mhall119sivang: this is a public discussion channel for the phone project20:41
sivangmhall119: excellent20:41
mhall119sivang: do you have questions about that page?20:41
sivangmhall119: first of all, I think that's the best attempt at biting at the apple (but I may be a bit biased being ubuntu universe develoepr for quite some time and uploader to main through sponsorship in ancient times)20:42
mhall119I'm a bit biased myself, so that's okay :)20:42
sivangmhall119: I would be anxious to try this phone, not sure I could afford it money wise, but would be dying to try it.20:42
sivangmhall119: I was with the community team pre-mataro, if that tells you something..20:43
sivangmhall119: and used to email with the sabdfl occasionally ;)20:43
ubuntubhoysivang: images will be released for the Galaxy nexus soon20:43
ubuntubhoynot the most expensive handset anymore20:43
mhall119^^ that20:43
Walther So, nice work on the Ubuntu phone, when will it be available for download?20:44
* sivang wonders who around here still recalls Mataro besides kdub 20:44
mhall119though I can forsee a run on those phones on ebay and craigslist once those images are out :)20:44
k1l_so there will be an image for the nexus4, too? or do the devs still wait for google to deliver their device? :)20:44
mhall119Walther: I don't have a solid time frame on those images yet20:44
mhall119k1l_: I've only heard that there will be images for the galaxy nexus20:44
sivangmhall119: what's the way to contribute and get noticed for Ubuntu phone?20:44
* mhall119 doesn't recall Mataro20:45
k1l_mhall119: ok20:45
WaltherAlso, how much of it will be open source / closed source?20:45
sivangmhall119: 2004, after Warty Warthog20:45
mhall119sivang: currently we have the UI toolkit available for people to get started making/porting apps20:45
WaltherWill it be possible to contribute in near-official or truly official ports to other "open" devices, namely, Nokia N9 and the like?20:45
mhall119Walther: as much as possible will be open source20:45
sivangmhall119: ah, so it is not an open source project...20:45
sivangmhall119: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MataroConference20:46
mhall119sivang: the images are not available yet20:46
ubuntubhoysivang: can't be fully open sourced - vendors and OEM's need an amount of control over devices20:46
ubuntubhoyor they won't buy into it20:46
mhall119but from what jono and rick spencer were saying on the OMG stream earlier, it should all be available under an open license20:46
mhall119with the probable exception of hardware drivers20:47
sivangubuntubhoy: mer is open source and you can contribute there , and sailfish will be apparently, so I guess there's a way?20:47
mhall119though even most of that should, thanks to Google and Android, be open20:47
mhall119it will ultimately depend on the hardware used though20:47
FabianSSailfish isn't FOSS.20:48
FabianSOnly the core, not the UI.20:48
ubuntubhoymhall119: even on Android OEM's like to lock down bootloaders20:48
FabianSThe Swipe UI nokia made for Meego on the N9 is closed to.20:48
sivangFabianS: but to contribute that's all you care..20:48
mhall119ubuntubhoy: well bootloaders are an entirely different matter20:48
mhall119an OEM can lock a bootloader running 100% open software20:49
ubuntubhoybut they are still linked20:49
sivangmhall119: is it using lybhybris?20:49
mhall119ubuntubhoy: I mean that what the OEM does with the bootloader won't have any bearing on the openness of our software's development20:49
mhall119sivang: I don't know20:50
ubuntubhoymhall119: I get that - it's just another factor to consider is all20:50
sivangso it is developed not in th eopen so far..20:51
ubuntubhoywell, nothing has been released yet20:51
ubuntubhoyso can't really say yet20:51
mhall119sivang: it was developed internally up until now20:52
sivangmhall119: I see, with voluteers as well?20:53
WaltherAlso, just an interested thought - will there be parts of Ubuntu Phone project merged to the Ubuntu Tablet project?20:53
mhall119sivang: what do yu mean?20:53
WaltherThe UI demo seemed much more sleek than the recent videos of Ubuntu Nexus 7 project20:53
Waltherand the same UI ideas could perform well on the tablet as well20:54
Waltherswipe, gestures, speech recognition HUD, etc20:54
sivangmhall119: well, before warty warthog released, there was a community team as well that was per-invited to join the fun before the release :)20:54
ubuntubhoyThe N7 project is still only about getting the core OS working20:54
ubuntubhoyno UI stuff being done20:54
mhall119Walther: all form factors will eventually share the same foundation20:54
ubuntubhoyat least in public20:54
sivangmhall119: as you can see, I'm highly keen on community matters20:54
mhall119sivang: me too :)20:55
sivangmhall119: observer ;) http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/7020:55
sivangmhall119: notice the dates..20:55
mhall119sivang: there was some non-canonical folks contributing via skunkworks20:55
sivangI'm in old timer, too old a even.20:55
WaltherBTW, am I getting the right impression that mhall119 is a developer working for canonical? Any other actual employees stating ~"official" opinions here?20:55
sivangmhall119: ah it has a name today? what is skunkworks?20:55
mhall119Walther: former-developer, I'm on the community team now20:57
mhall119I wasn't involved in the development of the phone20:57
sivanglately, I'm feeling addicted to mobile os development20:57
mhall119sivang: skunkworks is a program to bring in community people to contribute to all kinds of internal projects prior to their official announcement20:58
spjtSo has anyone finished a fart app yet20:58
mhall119sivang: http://mhall119.com/2012/11/welcome-to-the-skunk-works/20:58
WaltherAnd yeah, repeating my previous (important) question - will it be possible to contribute to official and/or non-official ports to other devices, or preferably, not ports but actual "device support"?20:58
mhall119spjt: not yet, it's yours for the taking20:58
sivangmhall119: just read it, so mark named it after 10 years :)20:58
WaltherIt would be awesome to be able to flash my N9 with Ubuntu, and have it run the same exact OS build that a nexus 4 with Ubuntu would20:59
mhall119sivang: perhaps it was a re-initialization20:59
Walther(separate ports are always a headache, no proper updates etc)20:59
ubuntubhoymhall119: quick question, when the GNex UOS images become available will they be announcing it or will they just 'be there' without a fanfare ?21:01
spjtI'm getting 404 errors when installing the QML toolkit preview (second command)21:01
mhall119ubuntubhoy: I'm sure it'll be announced and picked up by all the usual media21:01
ubuntubhoywas just wondering after the N7 image went live prior to its announced release time21:02
spjtIs there an emulator image?21:03
mhall119spjt: emulator for phone hardware?21:07
spjtmhall119: I'd think it would use the Android emulator.21:08
WaltherAre there *any* images available yet?21:08
mhall119Walther: not yet, only the app development components21:09
Waltherthat's what i thought.21:09
spjtHas anyone else gotten the QML toolkit installed?21:09
pmcgowanspjt: we can do that, use the android emulator, will keep you posted, we have played with that a bit21:09
ubuntubhoyThe Android emulator works pretty well now21:11
FabianSIt's really slow though.21:11
ubuntubhoyno where near as bad as it was21:11
spjtThere must be some way to emulate it, otherwise there'd be no way to know if anything works at all21:11
mhall119spjt: it'll probably run on the desktop, but yes it does make it hard to test certain things21:12
spjtW: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ui-toolkit/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found21:12
spjtmhall119: I mean the actual phone OS itself, not the apps21:12
rsalvetiit's not hard to emulate it, specially as have qemu working nicely with the android sdk21:13
mhall119spjt: /w 5121:13
mhall119blah, ignore that21:13
spjtI only want the emulator to play around with it, so it's not too big of a deal..21:14
pmcgowanmhall119: I dont think the source packages have been published, but the ui is qml anyway21:14
pmcgowanthe toolkit I mean21:15
spjtI'm more interested in finding out why I can't install the toolkit.21:15
popeyspjt: I just tried here, and it works okay21:16
mhall119spjt: what error are you getting?21:16
spjtI don't get any errors with add-apt-repository ppa:ui-toolkit/ppa. apt-get update gives me W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ui-toolkit/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found21:17
mhall119spjt: ah, packages are only there for Quantal atm21:17
sivangthere's an issue signing to the wiki21:18
spjtmhall119: ok then...21:18
sivangI'm using my lp creds21:18
ubuntubhoyinstalling fine here21:19
Mercurymhall119: Is the base X, wayland, or something else entirely?21:19
* sivang feels the SSO is surprised to see me back21:19
mhall119Mercury: I'm not entirely sure21:19
mhall119sivang: you can't expect to be gone for so long and have it just immediately welcome you back into it's life21:20
sivangmhall119: LOLs21:20
mhall119bring flowers or something21:20
sivangmhall119: I'm getting too old21:20
FabianSSome german news site says that Ubuntu phone uses Android drivers.21:20
FabianSAny confirmation on this?21:21
popeyour own site says that21:21
sivangFabianS: this is mentioned on the releas web pages21:21
mhall119The nexus 7 images do too21:21
FabianSWonder how they do that.21:21
popey"Ubuntu runs well on entry-level smartphones – yet it uses the same drivers as Android"21:21
k1l_FabianS: in the video mark mentions that it will work with android kernels and android drivers21:21
mhall119IIRC, the drivers have been submitted to the upstream kernel already, but haven't landed in it yet21:21
sivangFabianS: read carefully :) hence why I was asking if it was using libhybris https://github.com/stskeeps/libhybris21:21
MercuryFabianS: Ubuntu is compatable with a typical Android Board Support Package (BSP).21:22
sivangFabianS: but having applied to work for Linaro, I know that the linaro.org project did that natively.21:22
sivangFabianS: gathering vendors from all overs, literally21:22
sivangFabianS: and creating a cool common core to run ubuntu on and devices21:22
sivangmhall119: I have some control over the material, mind you ;)21:22
HumanBeingI asked this before, but I didn't get an answer: What's about the developement of Ubuntu for Android? Is it dead?21:22
popeyHumanBeing: no21:23
MercuryFabianS: I read that as 'we can run natively an an Android kernel', possibly with the extra library pieces normally used for the camera, cell radio, etc.21:23
sivangmhall119: flowers not needed, but a kiss on the chick could help ;)21:23
HumanBeingpopey Great, thanks21:23
mhall119HumanBeing: Ubuntu for Android was pretty much stock Ubuntu with some custom Android work, IIRC21:24
sivangpopey: you I remember from ancient times21:24
mhall119sivang: you calling popey ancient?21:24
ubuntubhoyyou saying he's not ?21:24
mhall119mind you, I'm happy whenever I talk to someone who makes me feel younger, rather than older21:25
sivangmhall119: haha21:25
sivangmhall119: he's been with Ubuntu for a *while*21:25
mhall119I know21:25
sivang'wiki says no'21:25
* sivang retries21:25
sivangmhall119: it uses debs right?21:26
mhall119sivang: ubuntu?21:26
HumanBeingand I've got another question... are there any news about the NexPhone (www.nexcrea.com). In my eyes this would be a perfect piece of hardware for the Ubuntu for phones21:26
mhall119HumanBeing: I stopped paying attention when they didn't guarantee any work was actually going to be done for the money21:26
spjtI want the ubuntu phone on the Galaxy Note II. I love the pen.21:27
sivangmhall119: thje phone version ;)21:27
mhall119sivang: I don't think it's that far along yet, but debs would be the obvious way for it to go21:28
sivangfinally got a hello from wiki!21:28
popeysivang: I'm not _that_ old!21:28
sivangmhall119: hmm, I mean, what's the pkging system there?21:28
sivangpopey: :)21:28
popeywell, maybe I am.21:28
sivangpopey: do you recall me?21:28
mhall119sivang: I assume it has apt/dpkg on the phone image21:30
HumanBeingmhall119 oh, ok I always wondered why they haven't got a donate-button on their webpage, which would be necessary if they really have the aim to produce the phone. strange...21:30
sivangmhall119: okay, thanks.21:30
Mercurymhall119: I'd be incrediable disappointed if they _didn't_ keep the full packaging system.21:30
mhall119HumanBeing: they did a kickstarter or one of those crowd-sourcing things21:30
FabianSThat NexPhone looks an awful lot like bloatware.21:31
FabianSWith no real hardware or software visible and really ugly renders.21:31
HumanBeingmhall119 I know ;) but they haven't got a single link to this on their site21:33
mhall119HumanBeing: I don't think they reached their goal21:34
HumanBeingFabianS You're right, but I was interested in this, because they promised that the phone would run Ubuntu21:35
HumanBeingthx for your information :)21:35
FabianSEr. I shouldn't write two things at once.21:35
FabianSnot bloatware21:36
* sivang wonders if sladen still with Canonical21:40
mhall119if anybody has questions that don't get answered here, please post them to AskUbuntu using the 'mobile' tag: http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/mobile21:49
=== popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-phone to: Discussion for all things regarding Ubuntu in smartphone form factor | http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | If nobody is here use http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/mobile
HumanBeingA question I found on engadget.com: "If i play fruit ninja or similar game, how this menu sistem going to behave (no phaysical buttons if i understand)??"21:54
popeyHumanBeing: there's a difference between swiping on the screen and swiping in from the edge. We need to be clever about telling the difference.21:58
FabianSWorked fine on Nokias N9 and N950.21:59
HumanBeingFabianS: How could you approve that? o.O22:00
FabianSApprove what?22:00
HumanBeingthat it ran on the N9 and N95022:02
FabianSNokia invented those swipe gestures Ubuntu Phone uses.22:02
FabianSAnd they worked fine on N9 and N950.22:03
bobweaverwhere is the code ?22:06
popeynot available yet22:06
popeynow now22:07
bobweaverpopey,  what is framework ?22:07
HumanBeingFabianS: I see. I'm still not sure, wheather it'll be practical...22:08
bobweaverI hear that mark was talking about qml22:08
popeybobweaver: see http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/22:08
FabianSHumanBeing: I love the N9's UI. I'm sure the UI will be the least problem with Buntu Phone.22:08
FabianSPerformance looks like more of an issue.22:08
bobweaverI want to add the form-factor to tv and tablet on my desktop22:08
bobweaverOMG it is OML !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!22:09
bobweaverWhy am I not working on this ?22:09
bobweaverpopey,  I dont need to learn qml I am a expert in it. But I need to know something that I can import22:10
bobweaverlike import unityphone 1.022:11
bobweaverand it it uses qconf ?22:11
bobweaverif it *22:11
bobweaverso I can export things like this ......... pasteing22:11
HumanBeingI don't understand why they used QT instead of gtk22:13
bobweaverbecause qt is awesome and can use gtk22:14
bobweaverpopey,  in that paste I am calling  com.canonical.unity-greeter  so that in any qml file I can do say22:14
bobweaverlightDmConfiguration.background == "/usr/share/backgrounds/wahtever.png"  that will change the glib22:15
bobweaverpopey,  so You see before I write any apps for Phone I would like to see backend (QT) stuff to see what options there are to play with22:16
bobweaverlike why import qconf and all that jazz if bckend of phone has it already ?22:17
popeybobweaver: i may be the wrong person to ask these types of questions22:17
bobweaverpopey,  maybe you can ppoint out the right person ?22:17
popeymhall119 might, but he's just gone off the clock22:17
bobweaverdang ..... :)22:18
* bobweaver thinks that this is one of the best moves that Canonival has ever made. Qml is the future I have been ranting about that for like 1.5 years 22:19
popey\o/ we got bobweaver on a happy day :D22:20
sivangbobweaver: me for a bit over 2 years22:20
sivangbut I'm biased from the Qt project side :-p22:20
bobweaversivang,  you are also qml dev ?22:20
bobweaversivang,  maybe you have seen some of the work that I have done ?22:21
sivangbobweaver: not sure, perhaps22:23
sivangbobweaver: been doing mostly closed stuff unfortunaltey, and private stuff22:24
bobweaversivang,  I will make a video of what I am working on right now22:24
bobweaverkinda cool22:24
sivangbobweaver: sure thing, should be good to see22:24
ubuntubhoyBe careful - he will ask you to come look at his puppies next.22:25
* lpotter knows people that have been ranting about qml for 5 years22:25
bobweaverubuntubhoy, lets see your qml code :)22:29
bobweaverI am going to make it so that the dash is render types are vars for easing.type : Easing.Whatever22:29
sivanglpotter: but you you, with Jolla no? :)22:30
* sivang grins22:30
lpotteri do have a current contract with jolla.22:30
sivanglpotter: twitter said something, a while ago :)22:31
lpotterbut also a maintainer in qt-project22:31
FabianSI really really hope that jolla will get their hands on some decent hardware.22:31
FabianSBut they probably can't compete with nokia in that regard.22:32
FabianSN9/Lumia800 and 920 are the best made smartphones I have ever seen.22:33
bobweaverjolla is cool is that what the phone is based off of  ?22:33
FabianSJolla is the successor of Meego and most of the company are former Nokia guys.22:34
lpotterjolla's sailfish is mer/nemo which is based on meego22:34
FabianSWell, Sailfish is the successor.22:34
FabianSJolla is the company22:34
ubuntubhoybobweaver: I would show you, but you could hurt yourself by laughing too much22:35
ubuntubhoysadly I am no dev22:35
ubuntubhoyjust a little old end user22:35
bobweaverthat is cool ubuntubhoy  want to see my puppys ?22:35
FabianSlpotter: Are there any informations about who is going to build jolla's hardware?22:35
ubuntubhoybobweaver: sure, but I better get a shag out of this22:35
lpotterFabianS: nothing yet22:36
bobweaverdoes any one have any clue at all when the phone code will be released ?22:36
FabianSI would get a N9 if it was <200€22:37
FabianSBut with such old hardware it isn't worth ~280€.22:37
ubuntubhoybobweaver: everywhere just says 'soon'22:38
ubuntubhoythey were quick with the N7 code though22:38
ubuntubhoyand depending how you look at it, before or after CES is logical22:39
ubuntubhoybefore to peek interest22:39
ubuntubhoyafter to talk to vendors/OEM's first22:39
bobweaverThey should give me access if they want some bad code to be wrote j/k I am a good qml dev22:40
user82but android apps in ubuntu phone are not planned?22:40
popeyuser82: unlikely22:40
ubuntubhoythe question is how hard to port ?22:41
bobweavernot that hard with things like qt-exporter22:41
popeyno, i think the question is "can I run android apps directly on ubuntu phone"22:41
ubuntubhoyBB have made fantastic tools for porting android apps to BB1022:41
ubuntubhoypopey: I mean the follow up after your answer22:41
ubuntubhoynot the original question22:42
bobweaverthat is the cool thing about qml it is super super easy to work with and there are fast things like xmllistModel that are faster then webapps I would say22:42
bobweaverThere are some bugs that I still can not get around like QWebView crashes because of stupid gtk22:43
bobweaverlike in my tv menu that querys my backend tv server22:43
bobweaverhttp://imagebin.org/241468  << everything works great till flash comes into play. and yes I have pluginsEnabled but crash's saying that gtk 2 and gtk 3 can not be used together22:46
bobweaverwebkit is gtk3 and some stuff in unity 2d is still gtk2 like panel. hence crash's22:46
bobweaverbut I can watch big buck bunny and other things that are webm :/22:47
bobweaverIf you or anyone would like to play with or use stuff that I have made there is a ppa for 12.04 But one should only try virtual I would say22:49
sivangbobweaver: XmlListModel a true workhorse in 5 I htink it supports JSON22:51
bobweaversivang,  that is awesome . Got to love Models22:51
bobweaversivang,  that is my new years resolution is to port unity 2d to qt522:52
bobweaverhave to re-write all the backend stuff though as no qx11info in qt522:52
sivangI see.22:54
bobweaveryeah there is all the Window and WindowInfo plugin stuff that is heavy on the qx11info stuff22:54
k1l_since the hardware requirements for the high end ubuntu phone mention a quadcore phone. the dev phone for the entry phne is the galaxy nexus, is the nexus 4 the high end phone (besides its not matching the sdcart/emmc space)22:55
bobweaverI am just happy that canonical is doing something with qt-quick I was real real real sad when things went all 3d22:56
ubuntubhoyk1l_: The N4 is a high end phone, the GNex, not so much.22:57
jrtappersWhat makes a phone not a tablet, cause they need different UI's but there is grey area22:59
k1l_ubuntubhoy: i know, i got one here :) i just wanted to know if the n4 is a devphone for the high-class version. since its powerfull and delivers all drivers etc.22:59
ubuntubhoyThey have only said they will be releasing GNex images soon iirc23:00
ubuntubhoygues that's what they are dev'ing on23:00
k1l_or if its a motorola one, which got that webtop stuff included, which was used for the ubuntu4android on the atrix23:01
ubuntubhoyjrtappers: hard one, the N7 (defo a tablet) has a phone UI23:01
jrtappersWhat if the user decides? Thats what windows 8 should have done23:01
jrtappersLet  the user decide, give options, don't tke them23:02
ubuntubhoywell for what its worth I run a custom ROM on my N7 so that I can have tablet UI23:02
ubuntubhoybut I think the N10 also uses the phone UI23:02
ubuntubhoythink the tablet UI has been done away with23:02
ubuntubhoyso, UI does not define the device23:03
bobweaverjrtappers,  I would say that it is all about interfaces and buttons23:05
reindeernixI hope that the phone version won't use Compiz >_>23:05
popeyIt uses.. Beryl!23:05
sivangnight all, this announcement was a day maker23:06
bobweaverEasing.whatever is awesome23:06
bobweaverpopey,  dont scare people like that23:06
sivangbobweaver: hat's how you take almost close to stock QML lines and make a new app for yourslef: https://github.com/sivang/myrss23:07
sivanganyway, bad time in UTC+2 world23:07
jrtappersbobweaver, I think thats a good answer23:07
bobweaverjrtappers,  think about people do use mouses with tablets and also need differebt drag points for MouseArea23:08
bobweaverOnClicked :if (unity2dConfigueration.formFactor  === tv) do this else if (unity2dConfiueration.formFactor === tablet) do this23:09
jrtappersMice should not be over integrated for risk of becoming necessary23:12
bobweaverjrtappers,  MouseArea{} elenent is no just for Mouses23:13
jrtappersNo i meant in software design23:13
bobweaverOh +123:13
jrtappersIf mice become necessary then tablets become a lot less small23:14
bobweaverjrtappers,  there is a good example of why one would want to have different things in AbstractButton.qml  in Unity 2d23:14
ubuntubhoyA mouse should only be an option for a tablet23:15
bobweaveresp drag axis and what not for like the dash and the launcher23:15
bobweaverubuntubhoy,  correct but if a person plugs one in it def should work23:15
jrtappersUnity would be god on tablets, but terminal may be slow23:15
bobweaverthat is the thing alot of the best Qml devs are poor and can not afford things that are needed for testing23:15
jrtappersWhat about some kind of Aspect Ratio Simulator?23:16
ubuntubhoyjrtappers: Unity menu is decent, but window management is shit23:16
bobweaverubuntubhoy,  blame bamf23:16
ubuntubhoyThe N7 build should have maximus by default23:16
ubuntubhoylike the old netbook remix used to23:17
ubuntubhoyplus linux treats touch like a mouse23:17
ubuntubhoytoo precise23:17
jrtappersMultitouch could lead to opptunities23:18
jrtappersLike workplace switcher with pinches23:18
ubuntubhoystill very early days23:18
bobweaverlibutouch is awesome but always needs more work I would say23:19
bobweaverfor tablet and what not I just have different launcher's loading23:19
bobweaverlike for tablet it is like mac ipad because I am a horrible designer lol23:20
bobweaverhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/1490169/  << easy stuff to do if you know the vars/functions/whatever  that Unity has23:20
bobweaverOf course one can add tests to glib shemea files and then set options23:22
bobweaverrectangle {id: button ;width: parent.width / 4 ; height: parent.width / 4}MouseArea{anchors{fill: button}onClicked: launcher2dConfigueration.launcherStyle === tablet23:24
jrtappersUbuntu phone should be able to sync over wifi without cloud23:30
reindeernixjrtappers: Isn't that what you call cloud? >_>23:39
reindeernixjrtappers: Or do you mean like sending a settings file over wifi or something?23:39
jrtappersNo, as in over wifi, not over internet23:39
jrtappersFor people who have VERY slow internet23:39
jrtappersubuntu phone needs personal hotspot23:40
FabianSYeah. Tethering is a must.23:41

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