[18:24] <h00k> oho look.
[18:31] <seiflotfy> hey guys
[18:31] <seiflotfy> mhall119: around?
[18:32] <mhall119> seiflotfy: I am
[18:32] <seiflotfy> quick question, is zeitgeist being used in ubuntu phone?
[18:32] <seiflotfy> if yes are you guys using the qml bindings we created
[18:32] <mhall119> seiflotfy: no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me since it's used in Unity
[18:32] <popey> you probably want to use #ubuntu-discuss
[18:32] <mhall119> I don't know about QML bindings
[18:33] <seiflotfy> mhall119: we have qml bindings since over a year now
[18:34] <seiflotfy> mhall119: http://wm161.net/2011/10/28/libqzeitgeist-0-8-0/
[18:34] <mhall119> seiflotfy: cool, I'll pass that along
[18:34] <seiflotfy> :d
[19:03] <boulabiar> Does the phone use wayland ?
[19:35] <RzR> hi
[19:36] <RzR> are there ubuntu4android devels around ?
[19:37] <RzR> pop corns :)
[19:37] <tola> Does anyone know what will be the default browser for Ubuntu for Phones? Will it be Webkit or Gecko based?
[19:37] <WanderingEnder> ok, so. The last thing I heard about this was awhile back. This is not the full stack, not some chrooted... thing.
[19:38] <mhall119> tola: I don't know if that's been decided yet
[19:38] <Aiki> mhall119: I know qt is just a toolkit, but recently canonical has been cutting slices on the base ISO, so i thought it would be smart to switch all the focus to Qt.
[19:38] <RzR> WanderingEnder, yes I played w/ chroot too
[19:38] <FabianS> Most likely webkit.
[19:39] <mhall119> Aiki: even with a focus on Qt, there are a lot of Gnome components in Ubuntu that aren't going away anytime soon
[19:39] <WanderingEnder> I have a RAZR, original version (Droid, obviouzly), I'm wondering if I could put this on it.
[19:39] <RzR> but I was wondering if there are public stuff to test out ?
[19:39] <WanderingEnder> When ther eare reference builds available.
[19:39] <tola> mhall119: What about the app runtime? Jono seems to think that will be Webkit, does anyone know otherwise?
[19:39] <Muphrid> what will be the language for the SDK? QML?
[19:39] <user82> when will the images be available for testing..does anyone know?
[19:39] <mhall119> tola: for HTML5 apps?
[19:39] <Aiki> mhall119: IC Pitty... :( Thanks though!
[19:39] <tola> mhall119: yes
[19:39] <RzR> cordova ?
[19:40] <mhall119> tola: again, I don't know, but Webkit wouldn't surprise me
[19:40] <mhall119> Muphrid: QML is going to be the recommended one
[19:40] <mhall119> but AFAIK it'll be open to others
[19:40] <Muphrid> mhall119: alright, thanks
[19:41] <tvoss> mhall119, ping
[19:41] <tola> mhall119: It would be a shame to miss out on all the new APIs being added to Gecko http://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI
[19:41] <mhall119> tvoss: pong
[19:42] <tola> mhall119: But maybe that's an incentive to add an implementation of those APIs to Webkit...
[19:42] <mhall119> tola: any API worth developing for should be as cross-platform as possible
[19:43] <tola> mhall119: Like the new Ubuntu application environment you mean?
[19:43] <tola> mhall119: (I agree, I'm just being sarcastic)
[19:43] <WanderingEnder> Also, honest question.
[19:44] <WanderingEnder> How badly are US carriers going to be able to gut Ubuntu.
[19:44] <mhall119> WanderingEnder: that's a business thing, I don't think anyone here can answer that
[19:44] <mhall119> ideally they wouldn't want to change it at all
[19:45] <WanderingEnder> Yeah, but look at Verizon.
[19:45] <WanderingEnder> Also, the overview page says you'll need an Atom or Quad Core A9 for desktop convergence.
[19:45] <mhall119> WanderingEnder: as a Verizon customer, I know exactly what you mean :)
[19:45] <WanderingEnder> I thought we were able to get away with dual core 1GHz for that.
[19:46] <tola> btw, the reason I was asking about the web app runtime is that I've worked on some web apps that would be cool to port to Ubuntu for phones. They use the new Web APIs in Gecko, and one of them is a browser app (hence my other question) https://github.com/mozilla-b2g/gaia
[19:46] <mhall119> WanderingEnder: that I don't know about, I remember the UfA requirements originally said dual-core ARM
[19:46] <Chelsea> So, after doing reading for the last hour straight on this subject, just to be clear on this whole matter, there is no product (just software and ecosystem). Just like the Ubuntu-TV, right?
[19:47] <mhall119> Chelsea: correct, this isn't something you can go get right now
[19:47] <WanderingEnder> This is just high level for OEMs and operators. http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/operators-and-oems
[19:47] <mhall119> for Canonical, the softwre is the product, but there is no hardware
[19:47] <WanderingEnder> (Both to my statement of Quad Core and to 'where do I get this thing?')
[19:49] <tola> Where's the source code btw?
[19:49] <Chelsea> mhall119, I really don't think a big "announcement" is the way to go if they're just looking for oems. This was old news allready. Some ppl's expectations where higher.
[19:49] <mhall119> tola: the components and toolkit are here: https://launchpad.net/~ui-toolkit/+archive/ppa
[19:50] <mhall119> instructiosn for instaling them are on http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[19:50] <WanderingEnder> I'm not really seeing anything new, actually, than the old announcement that just looked like "Motorola WebKit Native."
[19:50] <gotwig> hey there
[19:50] <WanderingEnder> Except that the requirements for desktop have doubled.
[19:50] <Muphrid> rewriting my other question in the other channel: If I make an ubuntu customization (say a derivative) on the phone and make an image of it, is it possible to boot this new image on another phone? this is basically asking if the bootloader is locked
[19:50] <gotwig> what about scopes and lenses for ubuntu for phones? I dont see a point about that here http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[19:50] <mhall119> gotwig: there shouldn't be anything different for lenses/scopes on the phone interface
[19:51] <gotwig> mhall119, but how does the stuff show up :X
[19:51] <mhall119> gotwig: same way it does on the desktop
[19:51] <gotwig> mhall119, what is with the right click?
[19:51] <WanderingEnder> Muphrid, that's between you, your device manufacturer, and your carrier.
[19:51] <mhall119> gotwig: I don't know how previews will work, if that's what you mean
[19:52] <gotwig> mhall119, yeah ^^
[19:52] <WanderingEnder> I own a Verizon phone with a locked boot carrier, by Motorola. I expect hell to freeze over before Verizon acknoledges US law requiring interoperability.
[19:52] <tola> mhall119: Is that just for developing QML apps?
[19:52] <mhall119> gotwig: see the image at the top of http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/02/announcing-ubuntu-for-phones/ ?  Those are lenses on the phone
[19:52] <mhall119> tola: "that" being what?
[19:52]  * RzR http://rzr.online.fr/q/ubuntu# is #UbuntuPhone open ? I plan to adapt it for !N950Club which already support !Ubuntu #Chroot (watch video)
[19:52] <Muphrid> WanderingEnder: right, so it will be like android, the manufacturer decides
[19:52] <FabianS> Buing phones in the USA seems like a huge pain to me.
[19:52] <mhall119> FabianS: it is
[19:53] <WanderingEnder> Muphrid, its a cell phone. The carrier will always decide, and the manufacturer will obey.
[19:53] <FabianS> With several non-compatible networks and stuff like that.
[19:53] <FabianS> At least all the other countries agreed on one standard.
[19:53] <WanderingEnder> Canonical understands that, look at the OEMs and Carriers page.
[19:53] <Muphrid> true
[19:53] <Muphrid> heh
[19:53] <tola> mhall119: Sorry, the "components and toolkit" you can download, do they only enable QML-based apps to be run?
[19:53] <WanderingEnder> Noting how you can develop your carrier specific bloatware easily.
[19:53] <mhall119> FabianS: except S. Korea, I think, who also uses CDMA
[19:53] <gotwig> hide for the launcher on  the phone.. something i miss on my desktop
[19:53] <mhall119> tola: yes, those are the QML components
[19:54] <FabianS> mhall119: Do they have only CDMA or both CDMA and GSM?
[19:54] <mhall119> FabianS: probably both, like the USA
[19:54] <mhall119> you know, just to make it more difficult
[19:54] <Muphrid> WanderingEnder: Can you link the page?
[19:55] <WanderingEnder> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/operators-and-oems
[19:55] <Muphrid> thanks
[19:55] <FabianS> Here the only real stupid thing is the choice of LTE frequencies.
[19:55] <FabianS> But that's mainly apple's fault.
[19:55] <WanderingEnder> Carrier Exclusivity and Custom Capabilities.
[19:56] <FabianS> All other phone companies managed to put LTE chips in their phones that support more than two frequencies.
[19:57] <WanderingEnder> I mean, basically, in the US, if you don't play ball with the carriers, the manufacturers will not use your OS, cause they carriers won't carry that phone.
[19:57] <WanderingEnder> So, Canonical will guess how high when Verizon says jump.
[19:58] <mhall119> WanderingEnder: more likely there will be an OEM between
[20:00] <WanderingEnder> I guess I'm wondering how badly carriers and OEMs will rip this apart.
[20:02] <jaduncan> WanderingEnder: see Android.
[20:02] <FabianS> But they hardly touched iOS and WP.
[20:10] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ is up and running again
[20:10] <tvoss> mhall119, \o/
[20:25] <sivang> hi all
[20:40] <mhall119> hi sivang
[20:40] <sivang> hey mhall119
[20:40] <sivang> is this the channel that helped produce this: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/operators-and-oems ?
[20:41] <mhall119> sivang: this is a public discussion channel for the phone project
[20:41] <sivang> mhall119: excellent
[20:41] <mhall119> sivang: do you have questions about that page?
[20:42] <sivang> mhall119: first of all, I think that's the best attempt at biting at the apple (but I may be a bit biased being ubuntu universe develoepr for quite some time and uploader to main through sponsorship in ancient times)
[20:42] <mhall119> I'm a bit biased myself, so that's okay :)
[20:42] <sivang> mhall119: I would be anxious to try this phone, not sure I could afford it money wise, but would be dying to try it.
[20:43] <sivang> mhall119: I was with the community team pre-mataro, if that tells you something..
[20:43] <sivang> mhall119: and used to email with the sabdfl occasionally ;)
[20:43] <ubuntubhoy> sivang: images will be released for the Galaxy nexus soon
[20:43] <sivang> amazing
[20:43] <ubuntubhoy> not the most expensive handset anymore
[20:43] <mhall119> ^^ that
[20:44] <Walther>  So, nice work on the Ubuntu phone, when will it be available for download?
[20:44]  * sivang wonders who around here still recalls Mataro besides kdub 
[20:44] <mhall119> though I can forsee a run on those phones on ebay and craigslist once those images are out :)
[20:44] <k1l_> so there will be an image for the nexus4, too? or do the devs still wait for google to deliver their device? :)
[20:44] <mhall119> Walther: I don't have a solid time frame on those images yet
[20:44] <mhall119> k1l_: I've only heard that there will be images for the galaxy nexus
[20:44] <sivang> mhall119: what's the way to contribute and get noticed for Ubuntu phone?
[20:45]  * mhall119 doesn't recall Mataro
[20:45] <k1l_> mhall119: ok
[20:45] <Walther> Also, how much of it will be open source / closed source?
[20:45] <sivang> mhall119: 2004, after Warty Warthog
[20:45] <mhall119> sivang: currently we have the UI toolkit available for people to get started making/porting apps
[20:45] <Walther> Will it be possible to contribute in near-official or truly official ports to other "open" devices, namely, Nokia N9 and the like?
[20:45] <mhall119> Walther: as much as possible will be open source
[20:45] <sivang> mhall119: ah, so it is not an open source project...
[20:46] <sivang> mhall119: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MataroConference
[20:46] <mhall119> sivang: the images are not available yet
[20:46] <ubuntubhoy> sivang: can't be fully open sourced - vendors and OEM's need an amount of control over devices
[20:46] <ubuntubhoy> or they won't buy into it
[20:46] <mhall119> but from what jono and rick spencer were saying on the OMG stream earlier, it should all be available under an open license
[20:47] <mhall119> with the probable exception of hardware drivers
[20:47] <sivang> ubuntubhoy: mer is open source and you can contribute there , and sailfish will be apparently, so I guess there's a way?
[20:47] <mhall119> though even most of that should, thanks to Google and Android, be open
[20:47] <mhall119> it will ultimately depend on the hardware used though
[20:48] <FabianS> Sailfish isn't FOSS.
[20:48] <FabianS> Only the core, not the UI.
[20:48] <ubuntubhoy> mhall119: even on Android OEM's like to lock down bootloaders
[20:48] <FabianS> The Swipe UI nokia made for Meego on the N9 is closed to.
[20:48] <sivang> FabianS: but to contribute that's all you care..
[20:48] <mhall119> ubuntubhoy: well bootloaders are an entirely different matter
[20:49] <mhall119> an OEM can lock a bootloader running 100% open software
[20:49] <ubuntubhoy> but they are still linked
[20:49] <sivang> mhall119: is it using lybhybris?
[20:49] <mhall119> ubuntubhoy: I mean that what the OEM does with the bootloader won't have any bearing on the openness of our software's development
[20:50] <mhall119> sivang: I don't know
[20:50] <sivang> *libhybris
[20:50] <ubuntubhoy> mhall119: I get that - it's just another factor to consider is all
[20:51] <sivang> so it is developed not in th eopen so far..
[20:51] <ubuntubhoy> well, nothing has been released yet
[20:51] <ubuntubhoy> so can't really say yet
[20:52] <mhall119> sivang: it was developed internally up until now
[20:53] <sivang> mhall119: I see, with voluteers as well?
[20:53] <Walther> Also, just an interested thought - will there be parts of Ubuntu Phone project merged to the Ubuntu Tablet project?
[20:53] <mhall119> sivang: what do yu mean?
[20:53] <Walther> The UI demo seemed much more sleek than the recent videos of Ubuntu Nexus 7 project
[20:54] <Walther> and the same UI ideas could perform well on the tablet as well
[20:54] <Walther> swipe, gestures, speech recognition HUD, etc
[20:54] <sivang> mhall119: well, before warty warthog released, there was a community team as well that was per-invited to join the fun before the release :)
[20:54] <ubuntubhoy> The N7 project is still only about getting the core OS working
[20:54] <ubuntubhoy> no UI stuff being done
[20:54] <mhall119> Walther: all form factors will eventually share the same foundation
[20:54] <ubuntubhoy> at least in public
[20:54] <sivang> mhall119: as you can see, I'm highly keen on community matters
[20:55] <mhall119> sivang: me too :)
[20:55] <sivang> mhall119: observer ;) http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/70
[20:55] <sivang> mhall119: notice the dates..
[20:55] <mhall119> sivang: there was some non-canonical folks contributing via skunkworks
[20:55] <sivang> I'm in old timer, too old a even.
[20:55] <Walther> BTW, am I getting the right impression that mhall119 is a developer working for canonical? Any other actual employees stating ~"official" opinions here?
[20:55] <sivang> mhall119: ah it has a name today? what is skunkworks?
[20:57] <mhall119> Walther: former-developer, I'm on the community team now
[20:57] <mhall119> I wasn't involved in the development of the phone
[20:57] <sivang> lately, I'm feeling addicted to mobile os development
[20:58] <mhall119> sivang: skunkworks is a program to bring in community people to contribute to all kinds of internal projects prior to their official announcement
[20:58] <spjt> So has anyone finished a fart app yet
[20:58] <mhall119> sivang: http://mhall119.com/2012/11/welcome-to-the-skunk-works/
[20:58] <Walther> And yeah, repeating my previous (important) question - will it be possible to contribute to official and/or non-official ports to other devices, or preferably, not ports but actual "device support"?
[20:58] <mhall119> spjt: not yet, it's yours for the taking
[20:58] <sivang> mhall119: just read it, so mark named it after 10 years :)
[20:59] <Walther> It would be awesome to be able to flash my N9 with Ubuntu, and have it run the same exact OS build that a nexus 4 with Ubuntu would
[20:59] <mhall119> sivang: perhaps it was a re-initialization
[20:59] <Walther> (separate ports are always a headache, no proper updates etc)
[21:01] <ubuntubhoy> mhall119: quick question, when the GNex UOS images become available will they be announcing it or will they just 'be there' without a fanfare ?
[21:01] <spjt> I'm getting 404 errors when installing the QML toolkit preview (second command)
[21:01] <mhall119> ubuntubhoy: I'm sure it'll be announced and picked up by all the usual media
[21:01] <ubuntubhoy> K
[21:02] <ubuntubhoy> was just wondering after the N7 image went live prior to its announced release time
[21:03] <spjt> Is there an emulator image?
[21:07] <mhall119> spjt: emulator for phone hardware?
[21:08] <spjt> mhall119: I'd think it would use the Android emulator.
[21:08] <Walther> Are there *any* images available yet?
[21:09] <mhall119> Walther: not yet, only the app development components
[21:09] <Walther> that's what i thought.
[21:09] <spjt> Has anyone else gotten the QML toolkit installed?
[21:09] <pmcgowan> spjt: we can do that, use the android emulator, will keep you posted, we have played with that a bit
[21:11] <ubuntubhoy> The Android emulator works pretty well now
[21:11] <FabianS> It's really slow though.
[21:11] <ubuntubhoy> no where near as bad as it was
[21:11] <spjt> There must be some way to emulate it, otherwise there'd be no way to know if anything works at all
[21:12] <mhall119> spjt: it'll probably run on the desktop, but yes it does make it hard to test certain things
[21:12] <spjt> W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ui-toolkit/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found
[21:12] <spjt> mhall119: I mean the actual phone OS itself, not the apps
[21:13] <rsalveti> it's not hard to emulate it, specially as have qemu working nicely with the android sdk
[21:13] <mhall119> spjt: /w 51
[21:13] <mhall119> blah, ignore that
[21:14] <spjt> Ot
[21:14] <spjt> I only want the emulator to play around with it, so it's not too big of a deal..
[21:14] <pmcgowan> mhall119: I dont think the source packages have been published, but the ui is qml anyway
[21:15] <pmcgowan> the toolkit I mean
[21:15] <spjt> I'm more interested in finding out why I can't install the toolkit.
[21:16] <popey> spjt: I just tried here, and it works okay
[21:16] <Gaggo> hooray
[21:16] <mhall119> spjt: what error are you getting?
[21:16] <leonardo> omg
[21:17] <spjt> I don't get any errors with add-apt-repository ppa:ui-toolkit/ppa. apt-get update gives me W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ui-toolkit/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found
[21:17] <mhall119> spjt: ah, packages are only there for Quantal atm
[21:18] <sivang> there's an issue signing to the wiki
[21:18] <spjt> mhall119: ok then...
[21:18] <sivang> I'm using my lp creds
[21:19] <ubuntubhoy> installing fine here
[21:19] <Mercury> mhall119: Is the base X, wayland, or something else entirely?
[21:19]  * sivang feels the SSO is surprised to see me back
[21:19] <mhall119> Mercury: I'm not entirely sure
[21:20] <mhall119> sivang: you can't expect to be gone for so long and have it just immediately welcome you back into it's life
[21:20] <sivang> mhall119: LOLs
[21:20] <mhall119> bring flowers or something
[21:20] <sivang> granted
[21:20] <sivang> mhall119: I'm getting too old
[21:20] <FabianS> Some german news site says that Ubuntu phone uses Android drivers.
[21:21] <FabianS> Any confirmation on this?
[21:21] <popey> our own site says that
[21:21] <sivang> FabianS: this is mentioned on the releas web pages
[21:21] <popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone
[21:21] <mhall119> The nexus 7 images do too
[21:21] <FabianS> Wonder how they do that.
[21:21] <popey> "Ubuntu runs well on entry-level smartphones – yet it uses the same drivers as Android"
[21:21] <k1l_> FabianS: in the video mark mentions that it will work with android kernels and android drivers
[21:21] <mhall119> IIRC, the drivers have been submitted to the upstream kernel already, but haven't landed in it yet
[21:21] <sivang> FabianS: read carefully :) hence why I was asking if it was using libhybris https://github.com/stskeeps/libhybris
[21:22] <Mercury> FabianS: Ubuntu is compatable with a typical Android Board Support Package (BSP).
[21:22] <sivang> FabianS: but having applied to work for Linaro, I know that the linaro.org project did that natively.
[21:22] <sivang> FabianS: gathering vendors from all overs, literally
[21:22] <sivang> FabianS: and creating a cool common core to run ubuntu on and devices
[21:22] <sivang> :)
[21:22] <sivang> mhall119: I have some control over the material, mind you ;)
[21:22] <HumanBeing> I asked this before, but I didn't get an answer: What's about the developement of Ubuntu for Android? Is it dead?
[21:23] <popey> HumanBeing: no
[21:23] <Mercury> FabianS: I read that as 'we can run natively an an Android kernel', possibly with the extra library pieces normally used for the camera, cell radio, etc.
[21:23] <sivang> mhall119: flowers not needed, but a kiss on the chick could help ;)
[21:23] <HumanBeing> popey Great, thanks
[21:24] <popey> ʘ‿ಠ
[21:24] <mhall119> HumanBeing: Ubuntu for Android was pretty much stock Ubuntu with some custom Android work, IIRC
[21:24] <sivang> popey: you I remember from ancient times
[21:24] <mhall119> sivang: you calling popey ancient?
[21:24] <ubuntubhoy> you saying he's not ?
[21:25] <mhall119> mind you, I'm happy whenever I talk to someone who makes me feel younger, rather than older
[21:25] <sivang> mhall119: haha
[21:25] <sivang> mhall119: he's been with Ubuntu for a *while*
[21:25] <mhall119> I know
[21:25] <sivang> 'wiki says no'
[21:25]  * sivang retries
[21:26] <sivang> mhall119: it uses debs right?
[21:26] <mhall119> sivang: ubuntu?
[21:26] <HumanBeing> and I've got another question... are there any news about the NexPhone (www.nexcrea.com). In my eyes this would be a perfect piece of hardware for the Ubuntu for phones
[21:26] <mhall119> HumanBeing: I stopped paying attention when they didn't guarantee any work was actually going to be done for the money
[21:27] <spjt> I want the ubuntu phone on the Galaxy Note II. I love the pen.
[21:27] <sivang> mhall119: thje phone version ;)
[21:28] <mhall119> sivang: I don't think it's that far along yet, but debs would be the obvious way for it to go
[21:28] <sivang> finally got a hello from wiki!
[21:28] <popey> sivang: I'm not _that_ old!
[21:28] <sivang> mhall119: hmm, I mean, what's the pkging system there?
[21:28] <sivang> popey: :)
[21:28] <popey> well, maybe I am.
[21:28] <sivang> popey: do you recall me?
[21:30] <mhall119> sivang: I assume it has apt/dpkg on the phone image
[21:30] <HumanBeing> mhall119 oh, ok I always wondered why they haven't got a donate-button on their webpage, which would be necessary if they really have the aim to produce the phone. strange...
[21:30] <sivang> mhall119: okay, thanks.
[21:30] <Mercury> mhall119: I'd be incrediable disappointed if they _didn't_ keep the full packaging system.
[21:30] <mhall119> HumanBeing: they did a kickstarter or one of those crowd-sourcing things
[21:31] <FabianS> That NexPhone looks an awful lot like bloatware.
[21:31] <FabianS> With no real hardware or software visible and really ugly renders.
[21:33] <HumanBeing> mhall119 I know ;) but they haven't got a single link to this on their site
[21:34] <mhall119> HumanBeing: I don't think they reached their goal
[21:35] <HumanBeing> FabianS You're right, but I was interested in this, because they promised that the phone would run Ubuntu
[21:35] <HumanBeing> thx for your information :)
[21:35] <FabianS> Er. I shouldn't write two things at once.
[21:36] <FabianS> *vaporware
[21:36] <FabianS> not bloatware
[21:40]  * sivang wonders if sladen still with Canonical
[21:49] <mhall119> if anybody has questions that don't get answered here, please post them to AskUbuntu using the 'mobile' tag: http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/mobile
[21:54] <HumanBeing> A question I found on engadget.com: "If i play fruit ninja or similar game, how this menu sistem going to behave (no phaysical buttons if i understand)??"
[21:58] <popey> HumanBeing: there's a difference between swiping on the screen and swiping in from the edge. We need to be clever about telling the difference.
[21:59] <FabianS> Worked fine on Nokias N9 and N950.
[22:00] <HumanBeing> FabianS: How could you approve that? o.O
[22:00] <FabianS> Approve what?
[22:02] <HumanBeing> that it ran on the N9 and N950
[22:02] <FabianS> ER.
[22:02] <FabianS> Nokia invented those swipe gestures Ubuntu Phone uses.
[22:03] <FabianS> And they worked fine on N9 and N950.
[22:04] <FabianS> https://twitter.com/gregkh/status/286592231731785729
[22:06] <bobweaver> where is the code ?
[22:06] <popey> not available yet
[22:06] <FabianS> s/yet//g
[22:07] <FabianS> probably
[22:07] <popey> now now
[22:07] <bobweaver> popey,  what is framework ?
[22:08] <HumanBeing> FabianS: I see. I'm still not sure, wheather it'll be practical...
[22:08] <bobweaver> I hear that mark was talking about qml
[22:08] <popey> bobweaver: see http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[22:08] <FabianS> HumanBeing: I love the N9's UI. I'm sure the UI will be the least problem with Buntu Phone.
[22:08] <FabianS> Performance looks like more of an issue.
[22:08] <bobweaver> I want to add the form-factor to tv and tablet on my desktop
[22:09] <bobweaver> OMG it is OML !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:09] <bobweaver> s|oml|qml
[22:09] <bobweaver> Why am I not working on this ?
[22:10] <popey> ☺
[22:10] <bobweaver> popey,  I dont need to learn qml I am a expert in it. But I need to know something that I can import
[22:11] <bobweaver> like import unityphone 1.0
[22:11] <bobweaver> and it it uses qconf ?
[22:11] <bobweaver> if it *
[22:11] <bobweaver> so I can export things like this ......... pasteing
[22:13] <HumanBeing> I don't understand why they used QT instead of gtk
[22:13] <bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1490045/
[22:14] <bobweaver> because qt is awesome and can use gtk
[22:14] <bobweaver> popey,  in that paste I am calling  com.canonical.unity-greeter  so that in any qml file I can do say
[22:15] <bobweaver> lightDmConfiguration.background == "/usr/share/backgrounds/wahtever.png"  that will change the glib
[22:16] <bobweaver> popey,  so You see before I write any apps for Phone I would like to see backend (QT) stuff to see what options there are to play with
[22:17] <bobweaver> like why import qconf and all that jazz if bckend of phone has it already ?
[22:17] <popey> bobweaver: i may be the wrong person to ask these types of questions
[22:17] <bobweaver> popey,  maybe you can ppoint out the right person ?
[22:17] <popey> mhall119 might, but he's just gone off the clock
[22:18] <bobweaver> dang ..... :)
[22:19]  * bobweaver thinks that this is one of the best moves that Canonival has ever made. Qml is the future I have been ranting about that for like 1.5 years 
[22:20] <sivang> bobweaver++
[22:20] <popey> \o/ we got bobweaver on a happy day :D
[22:20] <bobweaver> lol
[22:20] <sivang> bobweaver: me for a bit over 2 years
[22:20] <sivang> ;)
[22:20] <sivang> but I'm biased from the Qt project side :-p
[22:20] <bobweaver> sivang,  you are also qml dev ?
[22:21] <bobweaver> sivang,  maybe you have seen some of the work that I have done ?
[22:23] <sivang> bobweaver: not sure, perhaps
[22:24] <sivang> bobweaver: been doing mostly closed stuff unfortunaltey, and private stuff
[22:24] <bobweaver> sivang,  I will make a video of what I am working on right now
[22:24] <bobweaver> kinda cool
[22:24] <sivang> bobweaver: sure thing, should be good to see
[22:25] <ubuntubhoy> Be careful - he will ask you to come look at his puppies next.
[22:25]  * lpotter knows people that have been ranting about qml for 5 years
[22:29] <bobweaver> ubuntubhoy, lets see your qml code :)
[22:29] <bobweaver> I am going to make it so that the dash is render types are vars for easing.type : Easing.Whatever
[22:30] <sivang> lpotter: but you you, with Jolla no? :)
[22:30]  * sivang grins
[22:30] <lpotter> i do have a current contract with jolla.
[22:31] <sivang> lpotter: twitter said something, a while ago :)
[22:31] <lpotter> but also a maintainer in qt-project
[22:31] <bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8BCLEAH-oc
[22:31] <FabianS> I really really hope that jolla will get their hands on some decent hardware.
[22:32] <FabianS> But they probably can't compete with nokia in that regard.
[22:33] <FabianS> N9/Lumia800 and 920 are the best made smartphones I have ever seen.
[22:33] <bobweaver> jolla is cool is that what the phone is based off of  ?
[22:34] <FabianS> ?
[22:34] <FabianS> Jolla is the successor of Meego and most of the company are former Nokia guys.
[22:34] <lpotter> jolla's sailfish is mer/nemo which is based on meego
[22:34] <FabianS> Well, Sailfish is the successor.
[22:34] <FabianS> Jolla is the company
[22:35] <ubuntubhoy> bobweaver: I would show you, but you could hurt yourself by laughing too much
[22:35] <ubuntubhoy> sadly I am no dev
[22:35] <ubuntubhoy> just a little old end user
[22:35] <bobweaver> that is cool ubuntubhoy  want to see my puppys ?
[22:35] <FabianS> lpotter: Are there any informations about who is going to build jolla's hardware?
[22:35] <ubuntubhoy> bobweaver: sure, but I better get a shag out of this
[22:35] <bobweaver> lol
[22:36] <lpotter> FabianS: nothing yet
[22:36] <bobweaver> does any one have any clue at all when the phone code will be released ?
[22:36] <FabianS> :/
[22:37] <FabianS> I would get a N9 if it was <200€
[22:37] <FabianS> But with such old hardware it isn't worth ~280€.
[22:38] <ubuntubhoy> bobweaver: everywhere just says 'soon'
[22:38] <ubuntubhoy> they were quick with the N7 code though
[22:39] <ubuntubhoy> and depending how you look at it, before or after CES is logical
[22:39] <ubuntubhoy> before to peek interest
[22:39] <ubuntubhoy> after to talk to vendors/OEM's first
[22:40] <bobweaver> They should give me access if they want some bad code to be wrote j/k I am a good qml dev
[22:40] <user82> but android apps in ubuntu phone are not planned?
[22:40] <popey> user82: unlikely
[22:41] <ubuntubhoy> the question is how hard to port ?
[22:41] <bobweaver> not that hard with things like qt-exporter
[22:41] <popey> no, i think the question is "can I run android apps directly on ubuntu phone"
[22:41] <ubuntubhoy> BB have made fantastic tools for porting android apps to BB10
[22:41] <ubuntubhoy> popey: I mean the follow up after your answer
[22:42] <ubuntubhoy> not the original question
[22:42] <bobweaver> that is the cool thing about qml it is super super easy to work with and there are fast things like xmllistModel that are faster then webapps I would say
[22:43] <bobweaver> There are some bugs that I still can not get around like QWebView crashes because of stupid gtk
[22:43] <bobweaver> like in my tv menu that querys my backend tv server
[22:46] <bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/241468  << everything works great till flash comes into play. and yes I have pluginsEnabled but crash's saying that gtk 2 and gtk 3 can not be used together
[22:46] <bobweaver> webkit is gtk3 and some stuff in unity 2d is still gtk2 like panel. hence crash's
[22:47] <bobweaver> but I can watch big buck bunny and other things that are webm :/
[22:49] <bobweaver> If you or anyone would like to play with or use stuff that I have made there is a ppa for 12.04 But one should only try virtual I would say
[22:49] <bobweaver> https://launchpad.net/~u2t/+archive/bleedingedge
[22:51] <sivang> bobweaver: XmlListModel a true workhorse in 5 I htink it supports JSON
[22:51] <bobweaver> sivang,  that is awesome . Got to love Models
[22:52] <bobweaver> sivang,  that is my new years resolution is to port unity 2d to qt5
[22:52] <bobweaver> have to re-write all the backend stuff though as no qx11info in qt5
[22:54] <sivang> I see.
[22:54] <bobweaver> yeah there is all the Window and WindowInfo plugin stuff that is heavy on the qx11info stuff
[22:55] <k1l_> since the hardware requirements for the high end ubuntu phone mention a quadcore phone. the dev phone for the entry phne is the galaxy nexus, is the nexus 4 the high end phone (besides its not matching the sdcart/emmc space)
[22:56] <bobweaver> I am just happy that canonical is doing something with qt-quick I was real real real sad when things went all 3d
[22:57] <ubuntubhoy> k1l_: The N4 is a high end phone, the GNex, not so much.
[22:59] <jrtappers> What makes a phone not a tablet, cause they need different UI's but there is grey area
[22:59] <k1l_> ubuntubhoy: i know, i got one here :) i just wanted to know if the n4 is a devphone for the high-class version. since its powerfull and delivers all drivers etc.
[23:00] <ubuntubhoy> They have only said they will be releasing GNex images soon iirc
[23:00] <ubuntubhoy> gues that's what they are dev'ing on
[23:01] <k1l_> or if its a motorola one, which got that webtop stuff included, which was used for the ubuntu4android on the atrix
[23:01] <ubuntubhoy> jrtappers: hard one, the N7 (defo a tablet) has a phone UI
[23:01] <jrtappers> What if the user decides? Thats what windows 8 should have done
[23:02] <jrtappers> Let  the user decide, give options, don't tke them
[23:02] <ubuntubhoy> well for what its worth I run a custom ROM on my N7 so that I can have tablet UI
[23:02] <ubuntubhoy> but I think the N10 also uses the phone UI
[23:02] <ubuntubhoy> think the tablet UI has been done away with
[23:03] <ubuntubhoy> so, UI does not define the device
[23:05] <bobweaver> jrtappers,  I would say that it is all about interfaces and buttons
[23:05] <reindeernix> I hope that the phone version won't use Compiz >_>
[23:05] <bobweaver> +1million
[23:05] <popey> It uses.. Beryl!
[23:06] <popey> ;)
[23:06] <sivang> night all, this announcement was a day maker
[23:06] <bobweaver> Easing.whatever is awesome
[23:06] <reindeernix> LOL
[23:06] <bobweaver> popey,  dont scare people like that
[23:07] <sivang> bobweaver: hat's how you take almost close to stock QML lines and make a new app for yourslef: https://github.com/sivang/myrss
[23:07] <sivang> anyway, bad time in UTC+2 world
[23:07] <sivang> night!
[23:07] <jrtappers> bobweaver, I think thats a good answer
[23:08] <bobweaver> jrtappers,  think about people do use mouses with tablets and also need differebt drag points for MouseArea
[23:09] <bobweaver> OnClicked :if (unity2dConfigueration.formFactor  [23:12] <jrtappers> Mice should not be over integrated for risk of becoming necessary
[23:13] <bobweaver> jrtappers,  MouseArea{} elenent is no just for Mouses
[23:13] <jrtappers> No i meant in software design
[23:13] <bobweaver> Oh +1
[23:14] <jrtappers> If mice become necessary then tablets become a lot less small
[23:14] <bobweaver> jrtappers,  there is a good example of why one would want to have different things in AbstractButton.qml  in Unity 2d
[23:15] <ubuntubhoy> A mouse should only be an option for a tablet
[23:15] <bobweaver> esp drag axis and what not for like the dash and the launcher
[23:15] <bobweaver> ubuntubhoy,  correct but if a person plugs one in it def should work
[23:15] <ubuntubhoy> yes
[23:15] <ubuntubhoy> defo
[23:15] <jrtappers> Unity would be god on tablets, but terminal may be slow
[23:15] <bobweaver> that is the thing alot of the best Qml devs are poor and can not afford things that are needed for testing
[23:16] <jrtappers> *good
[23:16] <jrtappers> What about some kind of Aspect Ratio Simulator?
[23:16] <ubuntubhoy> jrtappers: Unity menu is decent, but window management is shit
[23:16] <bobweaver> ubuntubhoy,  blame bamf
[23:16] <ubuntubhoy> The N7 build should have maximus by default
[23:17] <ubuntubhoy> like the old netbook remix used to
[23:17] <ubuntubhoy> plus linux treats touch like a mouse
[23:17] <ubuntubhoy> too precise
[23:18] <jrtappers> Multitouch could lead to opptunities
[23:18] <jrtappers> Like workplace switcher with pinches
[23:18] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[23:18] <ubuntubhoy> still very early days
[23:19] <bobweaver> libutouch is awesome but always needs more work I would say
[23:19] <bobweaver> for tablet and what not I just have different launcher's loading
[23:20] <bobweaver> like for tablet it is like mac ipad because I am a horrible designer lol
[23:20] <bobweaver> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1490169/  << easy stuff to do if you know the vars/functions/whatever  that Unity has
[23:22] <bobweaver> Of course one can add tests to glib shemea files and then set options
[23:24] <bobweaver> rectangle {id: button ;width: parent.width / 4 ; height: parent.width / 4}MouseArea{anchors{fill: button}onClicked: launcher2dConfigueration.launcherStyle [23:30] <jrtappers> Ubuntu phone should be able to sync over wifi without cloud
[23:39] <reindeernix> jrtappers: Isn't that what you call cloud? >_>
[23:39] <reindeernix> jrtappers: Or do you mean like sending a settings file over wifi or something?
[23:39] <jrtappers> No, as in over wifi, not over internet
[23:39] <jrtappers> For people who have VERY slow internet
[23:40] <jrtappers> ubuntu phone needs personal hotspot
[23:41] <FabianS> Yeah. Tethering is a must.