[01:42] <ali1234> wtf another piece of sewing software with ridiculous copy protection
[01:42] <ali1234> old ladies are clearly the worst software pirates
[01:49] <dutchie> or they don't know about computers to realise there is another way
[01:50] <daftykins> ali1234: how do you get so much exposure to such gear XD
[07:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning and happy new year :-)
[08:03] <AlanBell> morning and happy new year TheOpenSourcerer and all o/
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Morning - son't forget Paul's laptop or he will have nothing to do :-)
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> He is here.
[08:21] <AlanBell> yup, on my way now
[08:31] <diplo> Happy new year all, and Good morning
[08:59] <popey> morning
[09:02] <kvarley> <9 hours now :)
[09:06] <popey> ☺
[09:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:07] <kvarley> I hope this release actually gives us access to something rather than "Look at our cool product, it'll be out at the end of the year"
[09:07] <kvarley> But either way, intrigued by the hole big release thing
[09:07] <kvarley> How're you all?
[09:13] <AlanBell> I can't imagine it will be an orderable product today
[09:13] <kvarley> AlanBell: I was hoping for a downloadable product heh :)
[09:14] <AlanBell> that wouldn't be very touchable :)
[09:14] <kvarley> Hehe true
[09:14] <kvarley> With the direction of Ubuntu moving to TVs and mobile devices I can already sense my wallet thinning out!
[09:20]  * xnox has a highlight in this channel but it's beyond scrollback horizon
[09:21] <czajkowski> xnox: in your away log
[09:25] <xnox> meh, nothing important. (keyword highlight, not nick)
[09:32] <JamesTait> Happy New Year, folks! :-D
[09:34] <sprmtt> hippy new beer
[09:34] <sprmtt> mmm... beer
[09:37] <kvarley> Interesting, just noticed that the Ubuntu 64-bit server image is "Recommended" on the Ubuntu site whereas the desktop recommends 32-Bit. Why? Is that just because servers are generally 64-bit and desktops in the past were commonly 32-bit?
[09:41] <popey> I'd look more at the reasons why we recommend 32-bit on desktops than why we recommend 64-bit on servers
[09:42] <mungojerry> perhaps used to be flash-related (was no 64bit fglash for a while)
[09:42] <kvarley> popey: Why 32-bit on desktops? :)
[09:42] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-April/035088.html
[09:42] <kvarley> Thanks :)
[09:43] <kvarley> Makes sense I guess
[09:58] <Azelphur_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rm6hn2z3gfzp4lr/2013-01-02%2009.50.32.jpg now I'm going to have to put all this together *daunting task* XD
[09:59] <stgraber> Azelphur_: that looks like Ikea Galant desks
[10:00] <Azelphur_> yep, many ikea galant desks
[10:26] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:32]  * xnox stares at the just delivered nexus 4
[10:32] <xnox> Laney: ^
[10:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:02] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[11:04] <daubers> o/
[11:05] <brobostigon> o/
[11:20] <bashrc> Isn't there supposed to be some sort of announcement today?
[11:20] <czajkowski> bashrc: yes
[11:20] <czajkowski> bashrc: you can see the countdown on ubuntu.com
[11:21] <bashrc> I predict that the announcement will be that Canonical is getting out of the desktop Linux business and getting into the concrete mixing business
[11:22] <bashrc> 6pm
[11:22] <popey> ☺
[11:24] <bashrc> but if that prediction fails my fallback hypothesis is just a commercial release of the android/ubuntu phone thing which was demoed last year
[11:26] <sprmtt> I'd love to be able to use my s3
[11:27] <bashrc> I havn't really looked into it but I think it is already possible to install ubuntu on an Android tablet
[11:27] <brobostigon> nexus7, yes.
[11:30] <bashrc> Unless you can plug in an external monitor/mouse/keyboard it's probably not going to be very viable on a tablet
[11:30] <bashrc> because regular linux applications aren't designed for touch screens
[11:40] <popey> indeed
[11:47] <sprmtt> I've been playing with the idea of getting a nexus 7, but like the tablet I had before, and eventally sold, I just can't find where it would fit in to my digital life
[11:49] <bashrc> I got an ultra cheap unbranded android tablet last year.  It's pretty awesome and has lots of bells and whistles, but it doesn't replace the sorts of things that I do on a desktop/laptop
[11:51] <dutchie> things i have found my nexus 7 useful for: light internet usage in bed, taking to classes to save printing things off
[11:51] <bashrc> for casual browsing, reading the news and reading books tablets are very good
[11:51] <bashrc> the killer feature is the multi-touch text scaling
[12:14] <daubers> I can't stand reading books on my nexus
[12:15] <davmor2> daubers: using the kindle app or the google play books app
[12:23] <BigRedS> Is anyone aware of a way of having a mysql or similar Nagios config? I'm after a way of *reliably* automating messing around with my nagios config automatically :)
[12:26] <popey> gosh, USB3 flash drives are cheap
[12:26] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/386264-extra-value-64gb-usb-3-0-flash-drive-ev-usb64gb-3-0
[12:28] <davmor2> popey: god bless windows 8 it did something right :D
[12:30] <popey> it did?
[12:30] <popey> I've not seen it yet
[12:30] <bashrc> I thought that windows 8 was supposed to be an abomination
[12:31] <davmor2> popey: you no longer get a cd/dvd you have to purchase a large 32min/64 recommended gb usb3 pen drive to create a backup medium
[12:31]  * popey shrugs
[12:31] <popey> oh
[12:31] <popey> i see ☺
[12:33] <xnox> BigRedS: check_mk
[12:33] <davmor2> popey: the rest of it is god awful and I know I had to get a copy to test the U1 windows client on it oh it's ugly
[12:34] <bashrc> CDs and DVDs seem to be on the way out.  If there are still any boxed products in future they might either be on a USB drive or merely just be a voucher number which you then use to download.
[12:41] <BigRedS> xnox: Ah, no, I'm looking to replace the config files, not the checks themselves
[12:42] <BigRedS> xnox: ahh, rereading, that might do it
[12:42] <BigRedS> ta!
[12:44] <xnox> BigRedS: it's like you specify hostname -> and that checks it's IP address, queries the client for tonne of stuff it knows how to check for & generates a massive nagios config. I literarly made my nagios configs 10x smaller with ~14x more checks.
[12:50] <daubers> davmor2: Both, I just can't stand the screen on the nexus for reading. Hurts my eyes. Much prefer the kindle
[12:52] <davmor2> daubers: quick trick for the kindle app, inverse the colours much easier to read then
[12:53] <daubers> davmor2: It's the brightness that hurts :) I tried it with inverted colours, still felt worse on my eyes.
[12:53] <davmor2> daubers: fair enough
[12:53] <bashrc> Ubuntu on Nexus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9W7E5S5YhE
[12:53] <BigRedS> xnox: yeah, I'm wondering if that's the proper solution to the problem I was trying to solve with a load of scripts and a db-backed nagios
[12:56] <xnox> BigRedS: simple things are trivial, medium things are easy, and hard stuff is possible with check_mk (the configs are python). "fancy special custom checks" can be simple tiny shell scripts =). Plus there is full support to call nagios plugins as well.
[13:00] <BigRedS> yeah, the checks are all simple. The problem is a nagios 1.x install with lots of KB of config file
[13:00] <BigRedS> and I'm thinking that rather than transcribe these all into nagios 3 style, it would make sense to move them into something portable and generate nagios3 config from that
[13:01] <BigRedS> and then use that system so when nagios4 comes out I can just output in that format and it's all good
[13:18] <davmor2> hey popey do you have a raring box around?
[13:22] <popey> i do
[13:30] <xnox> BigRedS: I doubt config-incompatible nagios will come any time soon, with multiple engines now supporting the said format: e.g. icinga, shinken and others.
[13:35] <DJones> Damm, why have I just tried to use the btv remote to change the volume of a programme I'm watching on my laptop...Doh!
[13:36] <dwatkins> I've moved the mouse pointer to the bottom of the screen to try and press keys on the keyboard before...
[13:38] <BigRedS> xnox: yeah, I'm hoping not, but at our glacial upgrade speed it's hard to tell what we'll be doing next time this is needed
[13:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> bug 700154
[13:48] <popey> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[13:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon popey
[13:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Happy New Year
[13:48] <popey> HNY to you too!
[13:48] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy new year dude
[13:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> here is a communal HNY to everyone so I don't have to keep saying it.
[13:49]  * TheOpenSourcerer does recall writing HNY at about 07:40 this morning when he got to work,.
[13:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> But not one heard hime.
[13:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/him
[13:50] <diplo> I was delayed by about 20 mins :)
[13:50] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: you don't think we read scrollback do you, I've got 2 and half weeks of emails to sift through
[13:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[13:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Get a tab and do some mass delete during the holidays.
[13:55] <dwatkins> That snowman in a fez unicode character is awesome.
[14:29] <popey> \o/ Unicode Ubuntu
[14:32] <AlanBell> yay
[14:32] <Seeker`> o/
[15:30] <bigcalm> Plink
[15:33] <popey> plonk
[15:36] <bigcalm> This piano needs tuning
[15:36] <bigcalm> NHY and all that jazz, popey
[15:36] <popey> indeed
[15:36] <popey> ditto
[15:37]  * directhex moos
[15:37] <popey> moo indeed
[15:38] <sprmtt> who let the cows in here?
[15:38]  * bigcalm adds a google map with pins of accommodation. Filling time while waiting for hosting companies to change passwords :Z
[15:38] <sprmtt> oh dear
[15:39] <sprmtt> a password on your account?
[15:39] <bigcalm> Are all clients inept?
[15:39] <popey> yes
[15:39] <bigcalm> Na, client
[15:39] <sprmtt> oh right
[15:39] <ubuntubhoy> Anyone here use Blogilo with Unity/Gnome ??
[15:39] <bigcalm> popey: good, I'm not being singled out then
[15:52] <mungojerry> hmm 2hrs till that ubuntu announcem,ent
[15:52] <sprmtt> I do hope it's something cool
[15:53] <directhex> touchscreen unity, to unite the worlds of ubuntu on desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone
[15:53] <mungojerry> and a real product to go with it?
[15:53] <mungojerry> i mean hardware
[15:53] <mungojerry> tie in
[16:02] <kvarley> Anybody know where the announcement is taking place and in what form? Are they simply updating the website or are they doing a demo of something in a press release kind of manner?
[16:03] <popey> it'll be all over news sites
[16:04] <kvarley> popey: :D nice
[16:04] <dwatkins> especially in Germany, I gather
[16:04] <popey> eh?
[16:04] <popey> http://socloseyoucanalmostbobbleit.com/
[16:05] <kvarley> haha, why is all I can say to that site
[16:06] <mungojerry> does it involve a real product, or a concept again?
[16:06] <mungojerry> i.e ubuntu tv and mobile haven't been carried by any vendors
[16:06] <sprmtt> why am I looking at jono's face bobbling at me?
[16:06] <kvarley> mungojerry: Nobody knows. Those that do know aren't allowed to say I imagine.
[16:06] <ubuntubhoy> more importantly does it involve any downloads ?
[16:07] <popey> correct
[16:07] <kvarley> ubuntubhoy: +1
[16:07] <popey> you'll hear nothing from canonical people until 6pm
[16:07] <popey> and before that it's wild speculation
[16:07] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[16:08] <kvarley> Really nice to see Ubuntu getting so popular, Ubuntu 6.10 seems to far behind Ubuntu now :P
[16:08] <sprmtt> I'll tell you what, I like the circles thing going on at the bobble site... more of this sort of thing from canonical please
[16:09] <popey> ☺
[16:09] <popey> I like that too.
[16:09] <kvarley> Is there a hashtag going on for this event?
[16:10] <bashrc`> 6.10 was the first Ubuntu version I tried, and it "just worked"
[16:10] <sprmtt> I'm going to be on the stupid train when this all kicks off
[16:10] <sprmtt> why can't I have an invite to the event?
[16:10] <sprmtt> *sulks*
[16:10]  * kvarley too. I tried 6.04 then got my brother to install 6.10 on my pc :)
[16:10] <daubers> sprmtt: Everyone knows that canonical will be announcing that popey is to be the new grand chanceller of the world
[16:10] <kvarley> sprmtt: Mobile data? :)
[16:10] <dwatkins> 12.10 64-bit pretty much Just Worked for me too ;)
[16:11] <dwatkins> popey is the new grand Pooh Bear?
[16:11] <daubers> Yup, all of your honey will belong to him
[16:11] <sprmtt> kvarley: well, of course
[16:11] <bashrc`> Maybe they will just announce something like "Big Data is now in The Cloud"
[16:11] <sprmtt> I guess I could do that, considering I've run out of comics to read this week
[16:11] <dwatkins> that's ok, I'm on a reduced sugar and carbohydrate diet ;)
[16:11] <daubers> :p
[16:13] <bashrc`> or "The Cloud is gathering and raining Big Data onto the consumer Tablet ecosystem"
[16:14] <bashrc`> I'm just trying to think of buzz terms
[16:14] <sprmtt> the fewer bad puns this thing has, the better
[16:14] <bashrc`> nothing about "girls", hopefully
[16:15] <sprmtt> hurm, the so close thing on the ubuntu website suggests it's certainly something physical that I'll be able to touch tomorrow
[16:15] <sprmtt> well, maybe not tomorrow, but soon
[16:16] <kvarley> The best case: hardware with Ubuntu shipping on it  (be it TV, phone, tablet). The good case: Ubuntu for Android download. The bad case: New t-shirt in the shop. The worst case: Canonical trollin' us.
[16:17] <sprmtt> hey!
[16:17] <sprmtt> nothing wrong with the t-shirts
[16:17] <kvarley> I know :) I'm wearing one right now
[16:17] <popey> me too ☺
[16:17] <sprmtt> maybe it'll be an ubuntu watch, because there's speculation already about an apple watch
[16:17] <bashrc`> Maybe Shuttleworth will announce his new beard for 2013
[16:17] <sprmtt> I'm wearing my lucid shirt
[16:17] <kvarley> popey: :D Are you allowed to wear ubuntu gear to work everyday?
[16:18] <kvarley> sprmtt: 12.04 shirt here
[16:18] <popey> of course
[16:18] <sprmtt> I wish I could have bought a hardy shirt :(
[16:19] <popey> i have 3 ☺
[16:19] <sprmtt> dammit!
[16:19] <bashrc`> Maybe a new tablet will be announced called The Ubuntu Slab
[16:19] <sprmtt> none on ebay
[16:20] <bashrc`> It would have to be a pinkish, purpleish colour.  Definitely not brown.
[16:21] <sprmtt> oh god, maybe that's the announcement... canonical are reintroducing the hardy heron t-shirt to the store
[16:21] <popey> hah
[16:21] <sprmtt> they could make MILLIONS
[16:21] <popey> I wish!
[16:21] <sprmtt> of pennies
[16:22] <bashrc`> I'd buy that for a dollar
[16:22] <sprmtt> it'd be nice if there was a brief run of some old merch, just for those of us that couldn't get them the first time around
[16:23] <bashrc`> 6.10 T-shirt?
[16:23] <popey> dont think there was a dapper one
[16:23] <bigcalm> A new background?
[16:23] <popey> oh, edgy
[16:23] <bigcalm> Ubuntu on ARM7?
[16:24] <kvarley> I'd just like to know whether I'll need my wallet handy
[16:24] <dwatkins> I thought Ubuntu ran on certain ARM chips already
[16:24] <bashrc`> mine is empty
[16:24] <bashrc`> although there might be some moths in it
[16:24] <kvarley> bashrc`: :/
[16:26] <sprmtt> I just cashed my dad's christmas cheque, so whatever it is could well be mine
[16:26] <kvarley> I hope they have some sort of bandwidth monitor on ubuntu.com, would be interesting to see how many people load the site after 6
[16:27] <dwatkins> kvarley: perhaps it's all a ploy to see how many people watch the page and keep refreshing it
[16:27] <kvarley> dwatkins: Yeah, they just need to test their servers heh
[16:27] <kvarley> That'd be mean
[16:27] <kvarley> popey said news sites would be publishing about it tho so it can't be that
[16:27] <dwatkins> I remember hearing about a launch (BT WirePlay, many years ago) which resulted in the servers going down due to heavy load - this was seen as a win because it 'demonstrated' how popular it was
[16:28] <popey> my point was that it would be covered by mainstream news sites
[16:28] <popey> so no, I don't think it's a t-shirt
[16:28] <dwatkins> I don' think they'd bother with a big launch just for some attire or a new mouse... nice as that mouse is :D
[16:28] <bashrc`> Maybe it's a commemorative mug
[16:29] <sprmtt> well it's gotta be the phone then
[16:29] <bashrc`> like a royal mug, but with a picture of Shuttleworth
[16:29] <sprmtt> I *really* hope it works with the s3
[16:29] <kvarley> I'm stuck if it is ubuntu for android
[16:29] <sagaci> bashrc, I didn't stay up til 5am for a mug
[16:29] <kvarley> Only have a single core phone
[16:29] <bigcalm> This count down doesn't quite have the same impact as that for Portal 2
[16:30] <kvarley> sprmtt: So it's gonna have to be a quick hardware purchase for me if it is
[16:30] <bashrc`> I didn't see teh countdown for Portal 1
[16:30] <bigcalm> Was there one for one?
[16:31] <bashrc`> Maybe
[16:31] <sprmtt> I don't think so
[16:31] <sprmtt> portal 1 was orange box, and hl2 and tf2 were thought to be the products everyone would go dolally for
[16:32] <sprmtt> turns out it was the one with no shooting that people loved
[16:32] <bashrc`> was it a game?
[16:33] <sprmtt> huh?
[16:34] <bigcalm> ...
[16:34] <bigcalm> I love puzzle games
[16:35] <sprmtt> well, it's one of the best puzzle games out there
[16:35] <sprmtt> at least for a pc/console
[16:35] <sprmtt> and it'll be on linux before this year is out
[16:35] <bashrc`> I'm strictly a flight sim rivett counter myself
[16:35] <sprmtt> probably by february
[16:37] <bigcalm> Would be nice when Ubuntu newer than 12.04 has graphic blobs for ATI
[16:38] <sprmtt> it would be, but I imagine ATI think there's no point in supporting anything so old
[16:38] <bashrc`> any kind of deal between Canonical and the graphics card manufacturers which meant genuinely free drivers would be big news
[16:39] <bashrc`> bad proprietary drivers have been a continuous thorn
[16:40] <dwatkins> I thought there were already close links there, bashrc` - not sure though
[16:40] <bigcalm> TBH, I don't care if the driver is free or not. I want to play games in Linux that I would otherwise play in Windows
[16:40] <bigcalm> This is _a_ reason why people use Ubuntu and not Debian
[16:40] <dogmatic69> anyone excited yet? almost 1h to go...
[16:41] <bashrc`> If you don't care about freedom you'll lose it, but anyway free drivers would allow them to be properly maintained
[16:42] <bigcalm> There are somethings I care about, and there are somethings that I do not. The world isn't made of free
[16:42]  * dwatkins drives home in order to see the announcement from the comfort of his home office
[16:43] <bashrc`> I know there is Nouveau, but I think that was achieved despite rather than with the help of the graphics card manufacturers
[16:47] <DJones> Is the announcement being screened as a webcast anywhere?
[16:48] <popey> no
[16:48] <bigcalm> I want 6pm to get here so that I can stop coding in PHP and continue coding in Python
[16:49] <bigcalm> Such a shame that my RPi isn't up to the job I want it to do
[16:49] <kvarley> DJones: Unofficial Google+ hangout on omgubuntu.co.uk
[16:49] <DJones> Shame, I guess I'll just keep hitting refresh on OMGbuntu and try and bring the site down
[16:49] <bigcalm> DJones: I'm guessing that at 00:00:00, the site will update with an ajax call. You don't need to harm your f5 key
[16:51] <DJones> Fair point, plus I have to press Function-F5 on this laptop, thats a two finger gesture
[16:51] <bigcalm> Same here
[16:51] <bigcalm> Irritating
[16:51] <DJones> Definately, especially for F2 to edit filenames
[16:52] <bigcalm> I need to stop buying Hayley pens for Xmas and save the money for a decent laptop
[16:52] <bigcalm> She loved the Visconti Opera Typhoo btw
[16:53] <DJones> That sounds like something you should drink
[16:53] <bigcalm> Oops
[16:53] <bigcalm> Typhoon
[16:53] <DJones> Heh
[16:54] <sprmtt> while I don't like the move that defaults function keys to media stuff, etc, I completely understand it
[16:54] <sprmtt> normal users never touch function keys
[16:54] <bigcalm> Yummy pen, wish she didn't want it so I could keep it for myself: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1400&bih=781&tbm=isch&tbnid=CS_BCZh7mu7LsM:&imgrefurl=http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Visconti-Opera-Range.html&docid=XbsdDryVQim_CM&imgurl=http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Typhoon_Crystal_Nib13705.jpg&w=705&h=400&ei=O2bkUL75JpOS0QWZ-IBo&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=837&vpy=303&dur=837&hovh=169&ho
[16:55] <bigcalm> vw=298&tx=161&ty=71&sig=117843636389540489136&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=222&start=0&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0,i:130
[16:55] <sprmtt> even less so now that mac style shortcuts are creeping in to windows/linux applications, like ctrl q for quit and ctrl w for close window
[16:55] <popey> nice url
[16:55] <sprmtt> wow, that's beautiful
[16:55] <bigcalm> Ug, http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Visconti-Opera-Typhoon-Fountain-Pen.html
[16:55] <kvarley>  bigcalm: DJones: I can confirm it will reload the page when the countdown reaches 0
[16:55] <sprmtt> google images does really need a small url option
[16:56] <kvarley> sprmtt: It has one, but you have to hit the share button iirc
[16:56] <kvarley> Or it used to
[16:56] <bigcalm> I can be lazy at times
[16:57] <kvarley> The new google/youtube layouts are annoying. Since when did >1024x768 resolutions not matter?
[16:57] <kvarley> All it takes is a little "margin: 0 auto;" love
[16:57] <sprmtt> since most laptops are now 1336x768(ish)
[16:58] <sprmtt> I was looking at what I could buy the other day, and if I wanted something that could do higher resolutions, it would mean being forced to use intel graphics
[16:58] <sprmtt> which is of course terrible for games
[16:59] <kvarley> 1 hour to go!
[17:00] <sprmtt> I guess they assume that you're going to plug your laptop into a screen for gaming, but not everyone wants to do that
[17:00] <bigcalm> I had to downgrade my laptop to 12.04.1. Battery lasts a lot longer once more. And it far less noisy :)
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> if your battery is noisy.. fear :)
[17:01] <bigcalm> Hah
[17:01] <sprmtt> the fans, I assume
[17:02] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: no, the laptop doesn't get as hot as 12.04 has the correct binary for the ATI graphics
[17:03] <bashrc`> that's perhaps another reason why graphics drivers should be free
[17:03] <bashrc`> so that they can be properly integrated with power management
[17:08] <directhex> much like with the arguments over network drivers, the theory is much better than the practice
[17:08] <directhex> e.g. ubuntu 10.04 could not be made to output via displayport but not via internal laptop display, with Free intel graphics, unless you used a PPA
[17:10] <bashrc`> I've never had Intel graphics chips
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> intel graphics ♥
[17:12] <bashrc`> How do Intel graphics compare to the rest?  Good/bad/ugly?
[17:12] <directhex> see also people raving about intel wifi even though it's fundamentally broken
[17:13] <Azelphur> popey: I broke ikea :(
[17:13] <directhex> intel hd4000, on the latest chips, is the first time intel is faster at drawing to the screen than a toddler with a box of crayons
[17:13] <Azelphur> I always break everything xD
[17:13] <directhex> i'd pick an intel hd4000 ahead of an entry-level radeon
[17:13] <bashrc`> heh
[17:13] <popey> hah
[17:13] <directhex> games are playable, on low detail/resolution. that was never true for older chips.
[17:14] <Azelphur> when the order arrived the delivery guys were confused because the sum of the list of items to deliver was less than the order total, so they had to call into HQ for advice
[17:14] <popey> i have no problem with intel wifi here
[17:14] <popey> 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 1000
[17:14] <directhex> popey, do you have N disabled?
[17:14] <Azelphur> said there was 28 items to deliver but only 20 items were listed
[17:14] <popey> dunno
[17:15] <Azelphur> and just now I got an email saying they are going to deliver my order on the 8th xD
[17:15] <Azelphur> when...they already delivered it this morning
[17:15] <sprmtt> what on earth did you order?
[17:15] <directhex> there is an AP-dependent bug in the intel drivers that causes them to stop routing packets when connected to 802.11n access points, after an indeterminite amount of time
[17:15] <popey> delightful
[17:15] <mgdm> the time in my experience tends to be measured in milliseconds
[17:16] <directhex> it's near instant on huawei APs (e.g. BT homehub)
[17:16] <bigcalm> mgdm: an hour can me measured in milliseconds ;)
[17:16] <mgdm> bigcalm: pedant
[17:16] <bigcalm> :D
[17:17] <bigcalm> Oh how I wish I understood how this GearmanBundle worked
[17:17] <bigcalm> Can I continue with my Python learning please?
[17:17] <bigcalm> Going to OS the project if anybody wants to point and laugh at my work :)
[17:18] <Azelphur> apparently they didn't ship me all the legs for no apparent reason
[17:18] <sprmtt> bigcalm: can we start now to save time?
[17:18] <bigcalm> sprmtt: when I know you for longer than I have so far, yes
[17:18] <sprmtt> awww
[17:18] <sprmtt> ok
[17:18] <sprmtt> I'll wait
[17:45] <einonm> so...the new Ubuntu thing is some sort of product?
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> nah it's just a countdown
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> It'll go "Oh it's not April 1st yet?"
[17:46] <einonm> https://twitter.com/LinuxUserMag/status/286527845734432769
[17:48] <popey> ☺
[17:48] <einonm> My money would be on a steam gaming console. If I had any money.
[17:48] <bigcalm> Hehe
[17:48] <bashrc`> could be
[17:49] <davmor2> einonm: you know that Ubuntu is in itself a product right ;)
[17:50] <bashrc`> 9 mins
[17:51] <einonm> davmor2: sure, It's more usual to call a physical thing a 'product', more than a bit of software...wouldn't you say? :)
[17:51] <ubuntubhoy> nope
[17:51] <bigcalm> No
[17:51] <ubuntubhoy> I really hope its a full WM/UI that will work on a touch PC
[17:51] <ubuntubhoy> without compromise
[17:52] <popey> join #ubuntu-discuss to join the fun ☺
[17:53] <einonm> popey: thanks. There really are a lot of ubuntu channels, hard to keep up...
[17:58] <bigcalm> AlanBell: czajkowski: did I give you 2 a URL last year?
[17:58] <AlanBell> bigcalm: nope
[17:59] <AlanBell> just a date :)
[18:00] <daftykins> i spy a swooshing logo
[18:00] <bashrc`> swooshing?
[18:00] <daftykins> yeah the ubuntu.com countdown
[18:00] <soreau> einonm: Ubuntu is a distribution of Linux developed by a company called Canonical
[18:01] <daftykins> *GNU/Linux
[18:01] <soreau> A 'Linux distribution' implies GNU
[18:01] <bashrc`> it's swishing alright
[18:02] <AlanBell> I think the swooshing logo is supposed to run for 2 minutes then refresh
[18:02] <daftykins> not really, i could distribute a kernel
[18:02] <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
[18:02] <daftykins> nginx says 'this site is getting hammered'
[18:03] <bashrc`> Maybe Mark Shuttleworth will announce his latest hairstyle
[18:03] <AlanBell> 504 Gateway Time-out \o/
[18:03] <soreau> my browser says the same
[18:03] <daftykins> guys what's the easiest way to find out what audio driver is being used to run a soundcard?
[18:03] <soreau> daftykins: lspci or lsmod|grep snd (?)
[18:03] <daftykins> back about 7 years ago i remember 'lsmod | grep soundcore' but it just shows 'snd' :>
[18:03] <Myrtti> 504 Gateway timeout! \o/
[18:03] <Myrtti> choochoo
[18:03] <soreau> daftykins: lspci -nnnvv
[18:04] <bashrc`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpWHJDLsqTU
[18:04] <daftykins> soreau: thanks, passing on to my friend in need now :>
[18:05] <bashrc`> Is he going for a Steve Jobs look, do you think?
[18:07] <kvarley> What is it? Site won't load on my tablet
[18:07] <daftykins> 'ubuntu phone os'
[18:07] <jacobw> still guessing?
[18:08] <kvarley> Download link or is it just coming soon?
[18:08] <daftykins> well that depends if popey's link is legit
[18:08] <daftykins> i haven't seen any page load yet so might have to wait until the buzz dies down
[18:09] <bigcalm> My god that's a dull video
[18:09] <soreau> All the links on http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ are giving errors, not just the phone os link
[18:10] <daftykins> yes, because the site's getting rumped
[18:10] <ubuntubhoy> Best part - current Android handsets should run the OS
[18:10] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4 trailer ☺
[18:10] <popey> yes, it's a phone OS
[18:11] <bigcalm> I think it's time to play some Lego Lord of the Rings
[18:11] <ali1234> so no hardware then?
[18:11] <daftykins> lol search followed by amazon results
[18:11] <ubuntubhoy> handsets delivered early 2014. Will the OS be available to test before they are released ?
[18:11] <ubuntubhoy> on other devices
[18:12] <daftykins> i can't believe it's not android (TM)
[18:12] <bashrc`> is it a hacked version of Android?
[18:12] <ali1234> "now you can spend as long removing annoying crap from your phone as you do on your desktop"
[18:13] <popey> its not android
[18:13] <kvarley1> Nice video
[18:13] <daftykins> ah i'm not claiming it is
[18:13] <daftykins> it's just a joke
[18:13] <popey> i didnt say you did
[18:13] <popey> bashrc` asked
[18:13] <bashrc`> Does it include GNU tools, not just a java stack?
[18:13] <daftykins> oh yeah
[18:14] <kvarley1> Lame that the ubuntu site isn't responding, it's it on the cloud?
[18:14] <kvarley1> *isn't it on the cloud?
[18:14] <mgdm> being 'on the cloud' isn't an automatic fix for scalability
[18:14] <ubuntubhoy> popey: any idea when test 'ROM's' will be available for current devices ?
[18:14] <popey> ask in #ubuntu-discuss
[18:14] <ubuntubhoy> K
[18:14] <daftykins> kvarley1: just imagine how many geeks were poised to see the site and are now hammering F5
[18:15] <kvarley1> Hehe, true
[18:15] <kvarley1> Great news for the start of the year anyway :D
[18:15] <einonm> The Ubuntu developer site has some more details... http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[18:16] <daftykins> rushing us toward saturation point on phone OSs and app markets =[
[18:16] <ali1234> "Ubuntu QML"
[18:16] <ali1234> lolololol
[18:17] <bigcalm> daftykins: until recently, we had a different OS for nearly every handset. There are a few main ones now, I don't think the market is saturated
[18:18] <bigcalm> The dev site does show some nice things. Shame my personal time is now taken up with learning Python :)
[18:18] <kvarley1> Not sure how Ubuntu Phone OS will compete with android or ios devices in terms of app availability
[18:18] <daftykins> i suppose at least the competition might trim them down
[18:18] <bashrc`> Ok, so is this a phone running free software, or some horrible iPhone-style prison?
[18:18] <ali1234> both
[18:18] <kvarley1> This explains the web apps introduction in unity anyway :)
[18:19] <jacobw> kvarley1: it does?
[18:19] <ali1234> yes, it does
[18:20] <ali1234> because html5 is a supported way to make "apps" for this
[18:20] <ali1234> and that needs web apps integration to be half decent
[18:21]  * jacobw thinks app developers wouldn't learn GObject anyway
[18:21] <ali1234> not a chance
[18:22] <ali1234> luckily the native way is QML based
[18:22] <ali1234> so you might get a lot of ex-symbian and maemo devs
[18:22] <mgdm> QML?
[18:22] <mgdm> Qt?
[18:22] <ali1234> yeah "Ubuntu QML"
[18:22] <mgdm> ah
[18:22] <ali1234> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[18:22] <ali1234> which is Qt 5
[18:23] <jacobw> qt ftw
[18:23] <mgdm> ah ha
[18:25] <bashrc`> Compatible with Android drivers
[18:26] <bashrc`> Well that was all jolly interesting, but it leaves more questions than it answers
[18:26] <soreau> yea
[18:27] <bashrc`> Is this really free software on a phone, similar to Android?
[18:27] <popey> ask questions in #ubuntu-discuss
[18:27] <einonm> So how does the revenue stream for Canonical work for this phone OS?
[18:27] <soreau> popey: I see how ya are, post the link then say no one can discuss it
[18:28] <popey> did I say cant discuss it?
[18:28] <soreau> +here
[18:28] <popey> or did I point to the place where lots of people are discussing it?
[18:28] <popey> rather than have to copy/paste answers
[18:28] <soreau> You're the one that started the discussion for it here
[18:28] <popey> or re-type them
[18:28] <daftykins> really takes allsorts doesn't it ;)
[18:29] <soreau> yep
[18:29] <daftykins> no i was more remarking on your attitude :P
[18:29] <bashrc`> I didn't quite grok whether this was the phone/desktop combo or not.
[18:29] <soreau> I was agreeing
[18:29] <jacobw> semantics
[18:32] <daftykins> guys what would you do if you had a customer wanting to host 4 domains? i'm thinking a VPS or hosted VM would be overkill for that
[18:33] <kvarley1> daftykins: Could go with a managed host provider?
[18:33] <daftykins> control panel based, they handle the backend sort of thing?
[18:34] <kvarley1> daftykins: Yes
[18:34] <daftykins> yeah i think that might be plenty
[18:35] <kvarley1> daftykins: That way the hosting company handles all updates, etc so there is less to worry about in terms of maintenance and security if you're with a good firm
[18:36] <daftykins> yip
[18:36] <daftykins> i was helping a friend with a VPS try and lockdown his setup so he could host multiple clients sites whilst providing access to update, started with SCP only access but it got pretty messy
[18:37] <daftykins> and you could get root access pretty easily via cunning PHP use and so on
[18:37] <daftykins> i helped secure some elements but i don't think it ever got 'safe' - cba with that kind of hassle
[18:39] <kvarley1> The ubuntu phone os trailer misses the point entirely
[18:39] <kvarley1> Doesn't show that you can dock it and use desktop mode
[18:39] <bashrc`> can you do that?
[18:39] <bashrc`> it didn't seem clear to me
[18:39] <kvarley1> bashrc`: OMGUbuntu says so
[18:40] <kvarley1> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
[18:40] <bashrc`> In that case if it is a phone/desktop combo then that makes it more interesting
[18:40] <popey> it's a phone first
[18:40] <kvarley1> I was disappointed until I read that article
[18:40] <kvarley1> Not disappointed
[18:40] <popey> not sure it will do the desktop dock thing out of the box
[18:40] <popey> might do
[18:40] <kvarley1> Just not thrilled
[18:40] <kvarley1> The interface looks slick either way
[18:41] <kvarley1> The support for HTML5 apps gets me excited
[18:41] <jacobw> i've been dreaming a phone that can be a tiny desktop for a long time
[18:41] <bashrc`> The interface looks like Android
[18:41] <kvarley1> Hope this event pushes a deal with manufacturers through
[18:42] <ubuntubhoy> Samsung should be rich pickings
[18:42] <ubuntubhoy> but Nokia could be ideal when WP8 fails to spark their business
[18:42] <kvarley1> If they did a deal with Samsung I'd be stoked
[18:43] <popey> that would be cool
[18:43] <kvarley1> Especially with the success of the S3 people would consider an Ubuntu phone if it was done right by them
[18:43] <kvarley1> Will be interesting to see what devices get the OS ported
[18:44] <daftykins> the times they are a-changin'
[18:45] <kvarley1> :)
[18:45] <kvarley1> I wonder if you'll be able  to sudo on it ;)
[18:45] <ubuntubhoy> I would guess the Nexus devices would be first choice
[18:45] <ubuntubhoy> more open
[18:45] <daftykins> the vid did look like the Nexus 4 / Galaxy Nexus with the charging/dock pins on the side
[18:46] <ubuntubhoy> might have to pick up a second hand GNex now
[18:46] <kvarley1> Depends on how good the ports run on the devices, but I may have to buy a nexus purely for ubuntu phone os
[18:46] <daftykins> i'd say don't touch a handset with <2GB RAM now
[18:46] <kvarley1> A15 based tablet anybody?
[18:46] <popey> soreau: apologies, I didn't mean to shut down discussion, just wanted to make sure people knew there was another channel. sorry
[18:47] <kvarley1> Haha, a comment on omgubuntu sums up my response to the unveiling - "Shut up and take my symbolic money!"
[18:50] <ali1234> so is there hardware for this, or not?
[18:50] <bashrc`> Symbolic money?
[18:51] <popey> not yet
[18:51] <popey> there will be a preview image out soon
[18:51] <popey> for people to install on a nexus i think
[18:51] <ubuntubhoy> Have to say I am a little sad it was not a full touch UI announcement
[18:51] <popey> or some other blessed device
[18:51] <popey> it _is_ a full touch UI!
[18:51] <ubuntubhoy> Gnex I would lay cash on
[18:51] <ubuntubhoy> popey: not for the desktop it aint
[18:51] <ali1234> so just like ubuntu tv and ubuntu for android, it will never ship on real hardware...
[18:51] <popey> how else would you use a phone
[18:51] <popey> we'll see ali1234
[18:52] <bashrc`> yes, this looks like a touch UI version of Ubuntu
[18:52] <ubuntubhoy> but NOT FOR THE DESKTOP - linux sucks on touch devices
[18:52] <DJones> Hopefully it'll be suitable for dual boot on a Galaxy S3
[18:52] <ali1234> desktops don't have touch interfaces
[18:52] <ubuntubhoy> and thats the problem
[18:52] <ali1234> no, that's a very good thing because touch interfaces are limited and stupid
[18:52] <bashrc`> whether this is a desktop combo seemed vague to me.  There are some allusions, but not much other than that.
[18:53] <ubuntubhoy> ali1234: depends on the situation
[18:53] <ali1234> the situation?
[18:53] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[18:53] <ubuntubhoy> I like touch interface
[18:53] <ali1234> the situation is ai have a computer with a 24" monitor, keyboard, and mouse
[18:53] <ubuntubhoy> so I multi-boot with Win8 and Android & Linux
[18:53] <ali1234> why the hell would i want to put a touch interface on that?
[18:54] <bashrc`> mouse driven apps and touch driven apps are really separate magisteria
[18:54] <ali1234> they are totally different
[18:54] <ubuntubhoy> but I have a touch enabled netbook & I want it
[18:54] <ubuntubhoy> dif situation
[18:54] <ali1234> touch is really only suitable for 10" screen or less
[18:54] <ali1234> something that is... mobile
[18:54] <ubuntubhoy> nope
[18:54] <ali1234> if you are constrained because you don't want to carry a fullsize keyboard and mouse... then touch is the next best thing
[18:55] <ubuntubhoy> touch can be better
[18:55] <ali1234> no, it can't
[18:55] <ubuntubhoy> and far simpler
[18:55] <ubuntubhoy> of course it can
[18:55] <ubuntubhoy> you see, you touch
[18:55] <ubuntubhoy> how a child learns
[18:55] <ali1234> hah. more like, "you don't see because your hand is in the way of the screen"
[18:55] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[18:57] <sprmtt> yo
[19:00] <bashrc`> http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/02/announcing-ubuntu-for-phones/
[19:01] <bashrc`> does appear to show a combo setup
[19:04] <popey> it would make sense to have the ability to run desktop when you dock it, sure.
[19:06] <bashrc`> that would be something really new, and I think it would make a lot of sense in terms of convergence
[19:07] <bashrc`> I can imagine businesses wanting that type of device
[19:07] <ubuntubhoy> Is this all because Ubuntu for Android was never taken up by OEM's ?
[19:07] <popey> nope
[19:07] <popey> UfA is incredibly popular
[19:07] <popey> takes a while to get to market though
[19:08] <ubuntubhoy> hmm
[19:08] <popey> I'd expect we would have a UfA phone this year
[19:08] <ubuntubhoy> does it not kind of conflict then ?
[19:09] <popey> well, some manufacuturers will want android, so adding our velvet on top of that gives them extra features
[19:09] <popey> other manufacturers explicitly don't want android, or want something else
[19:10] <ubuntubhoy> I get what you are saying
[19:10] <bashrc`> I think Android is now shipping on 43% of all computing hardware
[19:11] <ubuntubhoy> but if I was an OEM, why bother with UOS for phone, Put Android on it (proven track record) and have ability to run Ubuntu for Android, so a best of both
[19:11] <ubuntubhoy> unless Ubuntu for Android will be restricted
[19:11] <ubuntubhoy> compared to UOS
[19:16] <ali1234> i'd say it's more likely to be the other way around
[19:17] <ubuntubhoy> which part?
[19:17] <ali1234> UfA is a full linux system running X
[19:17] <ali1234> at the moment it is anyway
[19:17] <ali1234> it runs under hardware virtualization
[19:18] <ali1234> it can't directly touch the phone's radios
[19:18] <ali1234> wich means anything goes pretty much
[19:18] <ali1234> it ca't even indirectly touch them actually
[19:18] <ali1234> it has to use an API that exposes functions like "make call", "list SMS messages"
[19:19] <ali1234> the real phone OS otoh, can do things like send AT commands to the radio
[19:19] <ali1234> which makes hardware vendors nervous
[19:19] <ubuntubhoy> So U for A is more restricted then ?
[19:19] <ali1234> not so much restricted as "forced to implement restrictions"
[19:19] <ali1234> it's kind of complicated and hard to explain
[19:20] <ali1234> but the typical phone has components from so many different companies... and they are all incredibly paranoids of eachother
[19:21] <ali1234> you might think nokia and samsung design the entire phone (or used to) but they never did really. they licensed stuff from qualcomm etc. they will never admit it though, and qualcomm wouldn't allow them to if they wanted
[19:21] <ubuntubhoy> I can understand that
[19:22] <ubuntubhoy> so, for argument sake. U for A is simply an 'app'
[19:22] <ali1234> so when you're running UfA in virtual environment, well, nobody cares. you don't need drivers, documentation, NDAs, and DRM security
[19:22] <ali1234> yes, i suppose
[19:22] <sprmtt> ooh, there's quite an interesting look at what the new icon theme might be like
[19:22] <ali1234> lol
[19:24] <ali1234> ubuntubhoy: another way to look at it is like UfA can't run android apps, right? but android can. therefore android needs to have an evil DRM system in it and UfA doesn't
[19:24] <ali1234> and DRM can be considered a limitation
[19:25] <ubuntubhoy> a point well put
[19:25] <ali1234> for android apps substitute "anything sold on the play store" -so books, music and video as well
[19:25] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[19:27] <ubuntubhoy> that does bring up another discussion though. Content providers want DRM
[19:27] <ali1234> yes, and because content providers want it, hardware manufactures have to provide it
[19:27] <ubuntubhoy> In the same way that networks want locked handsets
[19:27] <ali1234> which means the OS has to support it, if they will use it
[19:28] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[19:28] <ali1234> maemo had exactly the same problem 2 years ago :)
[19:28] <ubuntubhoy> or they code their own apps for 'playback'
[19:28] <ali1234> it's no even down to that
[19:28] <ali1234> DRM has to be hardware level for them to even consider it
[19:29] <ali1234> ARM has systems far "worse" than UEFI, and any mobile OS that wants to be successful has to enable their use
[19:30] <ali1234> so for example, the N900 doesn't have any real DRM
[19:30] <ali1234> but the N950 did
[19:30] <ali1234> the blessed nokia image is signed, and if you run a custom firmware on it, you can't watch protected content you bought on the blessed image
[19:31] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[19:32] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r08dFQQ2uZI
[19:32] <ubuntubhoy> Anyway, going off topic. How the bloody hell do I get spell check working in Blogilo under Unity/gnome ??
[19:32] <ubuntubhoy> at work ali1234 - cant watch vids
[19:32] <ali1234> ^ that presentation was always... tense
[19:38] <ubuntubhoy> hate working this time of year - too many drunks
[19:38] <ali1234> popey: is the mobile UI QML based or is that just for apps?
[19:39] <ali1234> how much code shared with desktop unity? does it use nux?
[19:39] <ali1234> this UI does actually look quite good
[19:41] <ali1234> lol is that really how you say "sepia"? i always pronounce it like "seepia"?
[19:42] <ali1234> hey it's rafe
[19:44] <notKlaatu> holy cow, an ubuntu phone. i'm excited.
[19:45] <ali1234> no, an ubuntu phone OS
[19:45] <notKlaatu> there, just wanted to say it in a channel where i wouldn't be shot down. that is all.
[19:45] <ali1234> sorry
[19:45] <notKlaatu> hey, whatever. a full linux distro taht can be put on a mobile device. that's cool to me.
[19:47] <ali1234> it's not exactly the first
[19:47] <jacobw> freerunner :o
[19:47] <notKlaatu> oh, well it was news to me
[19:47] <notKlaatu> oh yeah, yeah
[19:48] <notKlaatu> well i guess it's not that big a deal after all.
[19:48] <ali1234> "ubuntu is the leading linux on ARM" - nope
[19:54] <ubuntubhoy> Sweet - GNex sorted
[19:54] <ubuntubhoy> now to wait for first release
[19:57] <ali1234> presumably the voice stuff is based on HUD too
[20:01] <ubuntubhoy> I also wonder why announce now when they don't expect to ship anything till 2014
[20:01] <popey> time to market is long in the mobile phone industry
[20:01] <popey> also CES next week ☺
[20:02] <ali1234> CES is for games consoles
[20:02] <ali1234> MWC is where the phones be at
[20:03] <popey> CES is for TVs
[20:03] <popey> we'll be at both
[20:03] <ali1234> ah yeah that's true. i forgot about TVs
[20:03] <ali1234> so is any of this stuff actually available to download?
[20:03] <popey> not yet, "soon"
[20:04] <ali1234> what about ubuntu TV?
[20:04] <ali1234> and UfA?
[20:04] <popey> UfA is still in discussion with networks / ODMs
[20:04] <ubuntubhoy> DOWNLOAD ALL THE THINGS!!!
[20:04] <ali1234> i mean the source code?
[20:04] <popey> I'm confident we'll get that on a handset by the end of the year
[20:04] <popey> not yet
[20:04] <ali1234> none of it?
[20:05] <popey> well its mostly ubuntu desktop
[20:05] <davmor2> ali1234: technically C(onsumer) E(lectronics) S(how) is for any consumer electronics ;)
[20:05] <popey> and android
[20:05] <ali1234> no, ubuntu TV!
[20:05] <popey> yeah, there's a couple of community guys working on it
[20:06] <ali1234> so if i take a PC and a dvb tuner and a TV, i can make an "ubuntu TV" today?
[20:06] <ali1234> and it will do all the stuff in the video?
[20:06] <ali1234> i can't remember if ther was actually a video or not for ubuntu TV
[20:06] <directhex> popey, crazy time to market is what killed nokia's mobile linux platforms
[20:07] <ubuntubhoy> and has not helped WP8 either
[20:07] <ali1234> directhex: to be fair they did got through 5 iterations of hardware before they even had something they seriously tried to sell
[20:07] <ubuntubhoy> announced too long before availability
[20:07] <ali1234> over the course of about 6 years
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> Woo, Ubuntu is on Dutch news as well: http://nos.nl/artikel/457649-ubuntu-stapt-in-telefoonmarkt.html
[20:07] <popey> i haven't kept up with what the ubuntu tv guys are doing
[20:07] <popey> they lurk in #ubuntu-tv tho
[20:09] <ali1234> "They haven’t even formally announced Ubuntu TV yet." is that true?
[20:09] <ali1234> if so, fair enough
[20:11] <popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ is back
[20:11] <ali1234> back? it went away?
[20:12] <ali1234> i'm pretty happy about the QML thing btw
[20:12] <ali1234> Gtk just doesn't cut it for app development
[20:12] <popey> yeah, the box had a kicking
[20:12] <ali1234> i wish you'd dropped unity/compiz/nux and just gone with unity-qml
[20:13] <ali1234> compiz is so buggy it's not even funny any more
[20:19] <popey> yeah, i kinda wish we did too
[20:21] <sprmtt> I actually tried tf2 in unity for the fist time since before the recent patch, and there's a massive difference
[20:22] <solarcloud_3scrn> popey .. the main bud reported with the Ubuntu-TV guys is the resizing of the Thunderbird window... including dialogue boxes.
[20:22] <popey> hah
[20:22] <ali1234> what does that have to do with TV?
[20:23] <ubuntubhoy> Thunderbirds was a great show
[20:23] <ubuntubhoy> TV enough ?
[20:24] <ali1234> i thought ubuntu tv was just a lens basically?
[20:24] <ali1234> still, someone has to do something about mythtv
[20:24] <ali1234> i mean it works
[20:24] <ali1234> but the UI is horrible
[20:24] <ali1234> mythweb makes it just about usable
[20:33] <oimon> just watched the ubuntu annoncement video with youtube subtitles
[20:34] <oimon> would have been nice if the uploader had included a proper subtitle track, shuttleworth kept talking about clinton on the video
[21:07] <solarcloud_3scrn> oimon.. What'z the Web-Link for the announcement announcement vidz ??
[21:08] <daftykins> you want the youtube trailer link?
[21:08] <solarcloud_3scrn> surething...
[21:08] <daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4
[21:08] <solarcloud_3scrn> opening...
[21:24] <solarcloud_3scrn> BY today's standards.. the south african's would say it's like gathering up as much source material as possible and making a kinda Frankenstein's mobile phone. I mean all these tolkein adaptations of writings from the silmarillion are not available on .mobi  [as @ 0:23in the vidz] .. So aaaggaain they've missed the 'get it & get on with it' boat. IMHO.
[21:26] <solarcloud_3scrn> ***...e South African's would... se Tolkein ada....
[21:30] <solarcloud_3scrn> scanning for .mobi ....
[21:30] <solarcloud_3scrn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/ebook_formats
[21:31] <solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide/ebooks
[21:33] <solarcloud_3scrn> Does anyone know if this news is cross-refeenced here :::: http://ebookee.org/dl/linux-format/ (???)
[21:35] <AlanBell> ooh solarcloud_3scrn, thanks for the post :)
[21:36] <solarcloud_3scrn> np .. glad for the DVD .. :)
[21:40] <solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Buy ypour self another Packt publishing book [ http://www.packtpub.com/books/all?utm_source=Packt+Publishing&utm_campaign=65c02c9900-Final_5_eBook_part_212_21_2012&utm_medium=email&mc_cid=65c02c9900&mc_eid=0a475b6109 ]
[21:40] <solarcloud_3scrn> **yourself
[21:46] <solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, What do you think of this one, for example ??? http://www.packtpub.com/gnome-3-application-development-beginners-guide/book
[21:47] <ali1234> wat
[21:49] <AlanBell> I kind of think most programming books have had their time (at least for me)
[21:49] <AlanBell> I would rather refer to online documentation and code that exists
[21:51] <solarcloud_3scrn> Yeah, they mostly get you to give neiche comments anyway ...
[21:51] <solarcloud_3scrn> e.g. [ http://www.packtpub.com/article/submit-book-cover-images ]
[21:54] <solarcloud_3scrn> .. I gave a comment on the amazon rocky nook about Vuescan once about having a redbook coffeetable cover .. and all I got back was some Yank telling me how sorry the lateness of the relpy was because of a funeral . They call it a funeral over there.
[21:57] <ali1234> solarcloud_3scrn: are you just saying random things?
[21:57] <ali1234> (again)
[21:57] <solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, Ta shen dty churrym hene.
[21:57] <ali1234> how does the GNex compare with SGS 1 2 and 3?
[21:58] <ali1234> i have SGS 1 and it runs the latest android fine... i don't think the later SGS are really all that more powerful...
[21:58] <ali1234> tl;dr is ubuntu gonna run well on my SGS1?
[22:06] <ubuntubhoy> Gnex compares roughly with the S2
[22:07] <ubuntubhoy> the original SGS was comparable with the Galaxy nexus
[22:07] <ubuntubhoy> oops
[22:07] <ubuntubhoy> the Nexus S even
[22:08] <daftykins> graphics core no doubt jumps each time
[22:08] <daftykins> the SGS2 is still a very capable phone
[22:08] <ubuntubhoy> S1 was single core, S2 dual core, and S3 is quad core
[22:08] <ubuntubhoy> daftykins: very miuch so
[22:08] <ubuntubhoy> -i
[22:09] <ali1234> i see.
[22:10] <ubuntubhoy> Also, can't remember exactly, but the RAM will also have changed through the devices
[22:10] <solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, You're obvoiusly not a bowler .. http://cnettv.cnet.com/the-404/
[22:10] <daftykins> yeah 2GB i think on the S3
[22:10] <daftykins> 1GB on the S2
[22:11] <ubuntubhoy> possible 512 on the S then
[22:11] <daftykins> i bought an S2 for someone off amazon, new for £260 delivered not long ago
[22:11] <ubuntubhoy> I just sold mine
[22:11] <daftykins> :D
[22:11] <ubuntubhoy> was a great phone
[22:11] <ubuntubhoy> had no issues, just fancied something else
[22:11] <ubuntubhoy> the JB leak runs fantastic on the S2
[22:12] <daftykins> i think it might still get jelly-bean eh?
[22:12] <ubuntubhoy> defo
[22:12] <ubuntubhoy> coming this month iirc
[22:12] <daftykins> which is impressive given its' age
[22:12] <daftykins> :D
[22:12] <ali1234> just put cyanogen mod on it?
[22:12] <ali1234> or is that only on SGS?
[22:12] <daftykins> i have an HTC Desire myself =/ stuck in 150MB /data partition hell >_<
[22:12] <daftykins> makes it absolutely useless
[22:12] <ubuntubhoy> CM runs for most devices now
[22:12] <ali1234> SGS has 512mb, nexus 7 has 1gb
[22:12] <ubuntubhoy> I ,love my N7
[22:13] <ali1234> i can't really see any speed difference between them tbh
[22:13] <ali1234> i too love my N7
[22:13] <ali1234> so much that i don't even want to put ubuntu on it
[22:13] <ubuntubhoy> I have had Ubuntu, Bodhi & Plasma Active on mine
[22:13] <ali1234> plasma active is just awful
[22:14] <ubuntubhoy> got to have a look though
[22:14] <ali1234> yeah
[22:14] <ali1234> i'll try ubuntu when someone makes it dual boot
[22:14] <ubuntubhoy> being able to nandroid backup to external usb disks is fantastic
[22:15] <ubuntubhoy> easy to get your Android back
[22:15] <ali1234> yeah?
[22:15] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[22:15] <ali1234> i'll remember that then
[22:15] <ubuntubhoy> TWRP recovery
[22:15] <ali1234> i need to get a OTG cable
[22:15] <ubuntubhoy> great things
[22:15] <ali1234> i use clockwork mod lol
[22:15] <ubuntubhoy> TWRP FTW
[22:15] <ali1234> dunno if it's available for N7
[22:15] <ubuntubhoy> yeah, it's what I use
[22:16] <ali1234> i mean CM
[22:16] <ubuntubhoy> yeah, that is too
[22:16] <ubuntubhoy> I use Paranoid Android though
[22:16] <ubuntubhoy> as I prefer tablet interface
[22:16] <ali1234> does N7 have any booby traps like the stupid SGS nvram.bin stuff?
[22:16] <ubuntubhoy> none I am aware of
[22:17] <ali1234> i was using a phone with no IMEI for like a year
[22:17] <ubuntubhoy> only issue is the 16G model can slow down with less than 2-3G spare
[22:17] <ali1234> i didn't notice until the network started disconnecting me all the time
[22:17] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[22:17] <ubuntubhoy> even worse is the Samsung brick bug in the kernel
[22:17] <ali1234> had to use an extremely dodgy dutch internet service to get the IMEI restored
[22:18] <ubuntubhoy> you should really backup the IMEI on all Samsung devices before tinkering
[22:18] <ali1234> yeah, i know that *now* lol
[22:18] <daftykins> isn't it just a # in hardware?
[22:19] <ali1234> daftykins: no, it's a number in a signed file in a protected nvram partition
[22:19] <daftykins> how tedious
[22:19] <ali1234> when you reflash, if you do *something* then the OS rejects the signed file, then helpfully wipes it for you
[22:20] <ali1234> so you can't even go back if you didn't back up the file
[22:20] <daftykins> my head almost started to spin when i saw all the different 5+ sequences of letters in samsung ROM names
[22:20] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[22:20] <ali1234> XXJPY
[22:20] <daftykins> sounds like a motherboard of a friends which has conveniently lost its' onboard LAN MAC address
[22:20] <mgdm> XYZZY
[22:21] <daftykins> under Linux it just keeps getting a new auto-gen'd MAC each time, so you can never network past reboots
[22:21] <daftykins> eventually i locked the MAC down in the config, very weird
[22:21] <ali1234> you can fix that with a kernel param
[22:21] <ali1234> or some config, yes
[22:21] <daftykins> think i did it in /etc/network/interfaces
[22:21] <mgdm> I had a machine where that was needed too
[22:21] <daftykins> weird aren't they? BIOS updates don't even cure it
[22:21] <ali1234> probably you can get a tool from the motherboard/network card vendor
[22:21] <ali1234> probably it only works in dos though
[22:21] <daftykins> you can read the real MAC off by enabling PXE boot too
[22:21] <daftykins> the screen'll show you it to write down :>
[22:21] <ali1234> BIOS != network card firmware
[22:22] <daftykins> true
[22:29] <jacobw> ok, self interaction managed
[22:37] <Azelphur> operation room sized desk is going relatively well, 40% done, gotta wait till the 8th now till ikea delivers the rest of my legs https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4zvuejgmpyrhvu/2013-01-02%2022.28.06.jpg XD
[22:38] <popey> wont the legs get in the way?
[22:38] <popey> of eachother and your legs
[22:39] <Azelphur> they won't get in the way of eachother, as for me, the front desk is 60cm deep
[22:39] <Azelphur> so I doubt those back pair will get in the way
[22:39] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/layout.png is the finished layout, so my legs would go underneath the extension top.
[22:40] <Azelphur> (red dots are legs)
[22:40] <popey> ahh the legs go the other way, i see
[22:40] <Azelphur> :D
[23:28] <solarcloud_3scrn> Azelphur, Viking chair .. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Shared%20Pics/viking%20chair.jpg
[23:28] <Azelphur> nice :)
[23:31] <solarcloud_3scrn> Anyone walkin' the ledge at the moment ? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Shared%20Pics/walkin%27%20ledge%20at%20Xmas.jpg
[23:33] <Azelphur> http://www.officechairsplace.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_5368.jpg is the chair I have :)
[23:33] <Azelphur> tis funny because everywhere sells them for like £800+, I paid nowhere near that.
[23:33] <solarcloud_3scrn> opening...
[23:34] <solarcloud_3scrn> What was the bill ?
[23:35] <solarcloud_3scrn> I imagine they farm billions of them.
[23:35] <Azelphur> I think it was like £200
[23:36] <solarcloud_3scrn> Mine was £35  .. I could have ot 6 chairs for £210.00
[23:37] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:37] <solarcloud_3scrn> Best thing  is .. there's no plastic so it's not noxious.
[23:38] <Azelphur> gotta go anyway, brothers invited me over for takeout chicken xD
[23:38] <neuro> oh dear
[23:38] <solarcloud_3scrn> hope it'snot dominoes.  chicken wings suck balls, mann.
[23:38] <neuro> i just found out what was announced today
[23:38]  * neuro is unimpressed
[23:39] <neuro> laggy awful unusable UI from the looks of it
[23:40] <neuro> if it makes more than a 0.1% dent in the mobile market, i'll be surprised
[23:41] <solarcloud_3scrn> neuro, did you read my tolkein comment earlier  ??
[23:41] <neuro> um, no?
[23:41] <solarcloud_3scrn> I'll check the logg ... hang-on.
[23:42] <solarcloud_3scrn> ... the U-Phone... BY today's standards.. the South African's would say it's like gathering up as much source material as possible and making a kinda Frankenstein's mobile phone. I mean all these Tolkein adaptations of writings from the silmarillion are not available on .mobi  [as @ 0:23in the vidz] .. So aaaggaain they've missed the 'get it & get on with it' boat. IMHO.
[23:43] <neuro> ok? :)
[23:44] <neuro> i haven't actually watched the ubuntu video yet, will do that now
[23:44] <neuro> christ, it's 21 minutes long
[23:44] <solarcloud_3scrn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4 .. like 1min.
[23:45] <neuro> oh, i'm watching the video at http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone
[23:46] <neuro> sabdfl is trying to be steve jobs in this video
[23:46] <neuro> "we have stuff to announce, but here's what we've done recently"
[23:47] <solarcloud_3scrn> Are you actually watching the long version ?
[23:48] <neuro> yup
[23:49] <popey> 23:39:15 < neuro> laggy awful unusable UI from the looks of it
[23:49] <popey> nope
[23:49] <popey> <- has used it
[23:49] <neuro> looked laggy on the verge hands on
[23:49] <popey> yeah, saw that
[23:49] <popey> *shrug*
[23:49] <ali1234> you can't really judge laggy or not without using it
[23:50] <ali1234> to be perfectly honest :)
[23:50] <popey> its the law that demos will fail
[23:50] <neuro> and swipe from right side only to switch apps?
[23:50] <ali1234> i mean you can't tell from video if it's responsive or not... if you're not actually in control
[23:50] <neuro> so if i'm running 20 apps i have to swipe 19 times to the right to the to the last one instead of once to the left?
[23:50] <ali1234> ever watch a video of someone playing a game and get frustrated cos they can't do it properly?
[23:50] <ali1234> it's the same thing
[23:50] <neuro> ali1234: the guy seemed to know what he was doing
[23:51] <ali1234> blah, doesn't matter
[23:51] <ali1234> same thing applies
[23:51] <ali1234> responsiveness of a UI is a very subjective thing
[23:51] <neuro> it looked a touch unresponsive to me
[23:51] <bashrc`> not really
[23:51] <ali1234> i see what you did there lol
[23:52] <neuro> ha
[23:52] <neuro> i didn't even mean to do that :)
[23:52] <bashrc`> if something takes longer than a couple of hundred milliseconds it will be judged laggy
[23:52] <neuro> and the swipe down thing looks like a terrible idea
[23:52] <neuro> the swipe targets are TINY
[23:52] <ali1234> 100ms = 2.5 frames of web video
[23:53] <ali1234> so really, you can't judge from that
[23:53] <ubuntubhoy> you cant really judge anything till you use it - unless it's really bad
[23:53] <ali1234> i am totally reserving judgment until i use it
[23:53] <bashrc`> the range 50-300 milliseconds is about the "speed of thought"
[23:54] <ali1234> though it does look like it has potential
[23:54] <popey> the swipe targets are not tiny
[23:54] <popey> the guy used it wrong ☺
[23:54] <neuro> how did he use it wrong?
[23:54] <cocoa117> with ubuntu 12.04, and dash search, can you search deep in your local home folder? at the moment i can only see few results
[23:54] <ubuntubhoy> I will reserve judgement till the GNes I just bought turns up and I use it
[23:54] <popey> he tried to pull down from the individual notifications
[23:54] <ubuntubhoy> GNex*
[23:54] <popey> which are tiny
[23:54] <bashrc`> but anyway it won't be out for a year so there is plenty of time for refinements
[23:54] <cocoa117> what do u guys using for deep and file content searching?
[23:54] <popey> if you have very pointy fingers, sure, try that
[23:54] <popey> but there is another way
[23:54] <ali1234> gotta say i love android 4.2
[23:55] <popey> you pull down a little bit and it gives you bigger targets and you swipe left/right to hit them
[23:55] <popey> its easy
[23:55] <ali1234> with all the swiping down menus
[23:55] <neuro> popey: i just saw that in the keynote video
[23:55] <neuro> still not sure about it
[23:55] <ali1234> not so keen on left/right swiping especially on the edges because it's hard to trigger if the phon has even a small bezel on it
[23:55] <solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Was there a note in with the envelope or did you just see the money note ??
[23:56] <ali1234> also prefer the one button to just go to the application list
[23:56] <neuro> and bezel size is handset dependent
[23:56] <ali1234> yes, exactly
[23:56] <ali1234> so 4.2 lockscreen on my SGS fails
[23:57] <ali1234> because you can't swipe left/right from the edges easily
[23:57] <ali1234> because it has a small bezel with a raised edge
[23:57] <popey> time for bed
[23:57] <popey> nn
[23:57] <neuro> nn popey-san
[23:57] <ali1234> on the nexus 7 it is fine because it has a large bezel and no raised edge
[23:57] <ali1234> though i still don't really like the concept of multiple lock screens... seems pointless to me